Physical Chemistry?

[AnesthesiaMD]

For someone who has taken it, why is Calc II a pre-requisite? How much harder is it than Organic Chem? Thanks in advance!

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[Caristra]

Just took my physical chemistry final today

Calc II is required because you use a lot of math in this course. Actually, a lot of courses require Calc III because of the partial derivatives.

It is not harder or easier than organinc. Is it just different. Massively different. Your grade in organic is not much of an indicator as to how you will do in p. chem. Your grade in calc and analytical chem is probably a better sign.

 

[[pj]]

you do integrals like none other.

triple integrals all the way!

 

[sefago]

I did well in calculus II and multivariable calculus B+ and A- respectively. Does that mean I would do well in the class?

 

[Meatwad]

I did well in calculus II and multivariable calculus B+ and A- respectively. Does that mean I would do well in the class?

I hope the answer is yes because math is my strong suit.

Joke: What do you call a failed mathematician? A physicist. And what do you call a failed physicist? A chemist.

Yeah... that joke was kind of for nerds.

 

[Green Pirate]

wow. im never taking pchem.

 

[bluesTank]

In my opinion, P chem was much harder then O. chem...although it is tough to compare them, since they are very different. P. Chem was harder for me simply because its much more abstract.

Most of the calculus has to do with taking derivatives and integrals of things, and deriving equations. It's usually basic stuff, not too complicated.

Good luck, I hated that class.

 

[xucardsfan08]

Organic and pchem are two completely different subjects. Organic is a lot more spatial while pchem is a lot more analytical.

You definitely need CalcII (even CalcIII) as you will use them heavily during the many many many derivations.

Depending on the school, PChem I can either be thermodynamics or quantum. My school was PChemI, II and Quantum separate.

If you have thermo first, you'll learn the derivations for the four main state functions: U, H, S, & G. You'll know partial derivatives that relate each one of these back and forth from each other starting with U and ending with S.

 

[CTtarheel]

At my school differential equations was a prerequisite. P-chem seems more like a math class than a chem class most of the time. It's a completely different ball game from organic which is more thinking and drawing pictures. This is straight up math.

You'll need multivariable for thermodynamics b/c all of the state functions, S, G, H, etc. that used to have simple equations are now defined in terms of partial derivatives.

You'll need higher math when you get to quantum and need to solve the hamiltonian equation which involves multiple integrals and you often times must do them in spherical or polar coordinates.

 

[littlealex]

As many of the people here have already stated, OChem is nothing like PChem.

OChem has a lot more memorization of the necessary tools, then applying them like a puzzle to solve problems.

PChem is far more similar to physics and mathematics in nature. Its subjects are analytical problem solving. That being said, people tend to say it is harder than it really is IMO. With a good lecturer, Pchem concepts are not any more difficult to grasp than calIII is.

 

[Real Name]

I did well in calculus II and multivariable calculus B+ and A- respectively. Does that mean I would do well in the class?

Maybe, but not neccesarily. It depends on how good your imagination is. I think the most difficult part of p-chem is quantum theory, you really have to be able to imagine the concepts, like 3-D orbitals, to have a good grasp of it.

 

[xanthomondo]

Joke: What do you call a failed mathematician? A physicist. And what do you call a failed physicist? A chemist.

failed chemist = biologist
failed biologist = psych major
failed psych major = sociology major...

the list goes on and on

 

[Lamont]

p chem hard.

failed everything-else major? philosophy major.

 

[TheGreatHunt]

You're going to be using a lot of Calc III, not just Calc II.

Jacobians, Lagrange undetermined multipliers, partial derivatives, partial integrals, are just a few of the things you should have an excellent facility of use for.

PChem is hard, and I doubt Med schools care if you take it or not. If you can avoid it... then avoid it. Depending on the professor, there ARE a limited number of As you can get, but it's likely that you'll have a few grad students in this course, or people that have audited it before. Good luck!

If you're wondering if you should be a chemistry major or not, don't be, apparently no one cares if you take rigorous courses, only that you passed with an A. Take home message: don't challenge yourself, or learn anything REALLY useful, and you'll be rewarded for the protection of your GPA.

 

[Critical Mass]

failed chemist = biologist
failed biologist = psych major
failed psych major = sociology major...

the list goes on and on

at my school it started with failed chemical engineer = chemist and then went on as you noted. P Chem was considered a pud course for ChemE's but one of the tougher ones for chemistry majors. I might also add that sub 3.5 GPA pre-med = biologist too.

It's only for people who really love chemistry or physics. It isn't comparable to organic.

 

[Jadyn]

If you enjoy chemistry (as I do) then there is nothing wrong with majoring in it if you can do well. Just beware. The inventors of p-chem are likely the spawn of satan.

 

[njbmd]

A good Physical Chemistry course requires that you are able to use math (calculus) as a tool to understand the concepts presented. If your math is weak or inadequate, Physical Chemistry is going to be a uphill battle. Most of the people in my class that had problems didn't have the math skills to understand the material as presented. Most of my tutoring duties in Physical Chemistry were teaching math skills to those who were weak. With adequate math background, Physical Chemistry is no worse than any other course in the Chemistry Department.

 

[xucardsfan08]

Differential equations isn't necessary but would certainly help with quantum. I still have nightmares over my quantum take-home final (7 pages of integrals just to prove the linear H3+ molecules energy equations..grr)

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

failed chemist = biologist
failed biologist = psych major
failed psych major = sociology major...

the list goes on and on

where does it end? Business major?

 

[thebeatblitz]

For Pchem, the necessity of calculus skill is inversely proportional to the effectiveness of your lecturer.

 

[bluesTank]

where does it end? Business major?

Education Major

 

[Meatwad]

Education Major

I've got that beat; one of those Create-Your-Own Majors (they call it Multidisciplinary Studies at my school). You get to pick and choose the easiest courses possible. Best major for a pre-med, if you think about it. Allows you to get all your pre-reqs in, and then you can pick and choose classes you feel you can lock up an A in.

 

[[pj]]

For Pchem, the necessity of calculus skill is inversely proportional to the effectiveness of your lecturer.

hmm, im not sure about this one. no matter how well someone knows the schrodinger equation, i can't imagine trying to explain/learn without calc involved.

but then again, how many people will use/remember/learn it anyway?

 

[thebeatblitz]

hmm, im not sure about this one. no matter how well someone knows the schrodinger equation, i can't imagine trying to explain/learn without calc involved.

but then again, how many people will use/remember/learn it anyway?

The depth of calculus necessary for Pchem I and II (thermo/quantum) is minimal; the drastic change in the perception of Chemistry from gen, orgo, inorganic -> pchem is usually what usually shocks people. I took both semesters with no college calculus (up to that point) and did fine.

 

[Meatwad]

The depth of calculus necessary for Pchem I and II (thermo/quantum) is minimal; the drastic change in the perception of Chemistry from gen, orgo, inorganic -> pchem is usually what usually shocks people. I took both semesters with no college calculus (up to that point) and did fine.

Is this because you taught yourself the necessary calculus? I surveyed the Pchem I notes up on my schools' website, and already in the first week, it was full of partial derivatives and stuff.

 

[fbf]

lots of physics and math.
IMOP,difficult course if u seriously try to learn something; easy A if u just wanna get over it.I took it last semester and only studied no more than 1 hr per week. end up with a A-.

 

[Meatwad]

lots of physics and math.
IMOP,difficult course if u seriously try to learn something; easy A if u just wanna get over it.I took it last semester and only studied no more than 1 hr per week. end up with a A-.

Was it a one-semester course (meaning, there is no P-Chem II offered) or a two-part course? Just asking, because here at my school, there are either Physical Chem I & II (which look quite difficult) and P-Chem (Short Course) which is only one-semester long, and created for Biochem majors. I believe the latter is seen to be a bit easier, and not applicable as credit for Chem majors.

 

[FlyinTiger]

I took two semesters of PChem. PChem I was heavily thermodynamics which gets into the deeper stuff with gas laws, enthalpy, and many other god awful boring topics. PChem II was quantum mechanics which is basically particle-in-a-box, point groups, symmetry groups, rydberg's equation, blackbody radiation, schrodinger (how he was a pimp lol) and many more f-in hard theoretical crap. I literally wanted to shoot myself. I guess it was interesting class that made you think outside of the box (waaaaaay outside) but it's not really a class to take. Orgo is sooooooo much easier. I guess p-chem is not sooo bad once u get used to it haha.

In my school, Calc I, Calc II, Multivariable calc, and diff eq was required. My prof went over eigenvalues and stuff and how it relates to pchem and omg did i have a great nap when he explained that!

 

[Meatwad]

I took two semesters of PChem. PChem I was heavily thermodynamics which gets into the deeper stuff with gas laws, enthalpy, and many other god awful boring topics. PChem II was quantum mechanics which is basically particle-in-a-box, point groups, symmetry groups, rydberg's equation, blackbody radiation, schrodinger (how he was a pimp lol) and many more f-in hard theoretical crap. I literally wanted to shoot myself. I guess it was interesting class that made you think outside of the box (waaaaaay outside) but it's not really a class to take. Orgo is sooooooo much easier.

In my school, Calc I, Calc II, Multivariable calc, and diff eq was required. My prof went over eigenvalues and stuff and how it relates to pchem and omg did i have a great nap when he explained that!

Wow, P-Chem involves eigenvalues?! I'm in. After last semester's linear algebra course, I feel like a master of eigenvalues.

 

[thebeatblitz]

Is this because you taught yourself the necessary calculus? I surveyed the Pchem I notes up on my schools' website, and already in the first week, it was full of partial derivatives and stuff.

My description was poor: AP credit can place you out of Calc I/II at my school, and I took multivar concurrently with Pchem II. All one needs are some partials and diffeq to succeed; I believe Calc I/II were requisite with multivar and linear algebra or diffeq recommended.

 

[xanthomondo]

where does it end? Business major?

lol hospitality management

at my school, they have a bulletin board with the jobs that the recent graduates obtained after getting their 4 year degree in this field. I'm not kidding at all...

-Bartender
-Waiter
-Clerk at a hotel
etc

 

[edmadison]

I also depends upon the school. My wife who has a master's in chem says that at our college, Pchem was brutal. What was "funny" was that it was the only extra class a bio major needed to get a chem minor. So many bio/pre-med majors took the class and got smashed with C's and D's. My wife appreciated how they propped up the curve for the chem majors

Ed

 

[[pj]]

My description was poor: AP credit can place you out of Calc I/II at my school, and I took multivar concurrently with Pchem II. All one needs are some partials and diffeq to succeed; I believe Calc I/II were requisite with multivar and linear algebra or diffeq recommended.

ok, that makes a bit more sense now.