Physical Science VS. Verbal Reasoning

[PittMedicine]

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Do you think physical sciences is considered the hardest section by adcoms? If so, is it good to score really high on this section?

If it is the case, then why do people say adcoms care about the VR the most?

 

[MediMama23]

Do you think physical sciences is considered the hardest section by adcoms? If so, is it good to score really high on this section?

If it is the case, then why do people say adcoms care about the VR the most?

All of the sections are difficult. And technically, it's best to score high in ALL sections, if not evenly in all sections. But people say adcoms care about VR the most because it has been thought that the score you get on the VR section correlates best with how you will do on Step 1 of the USMLE. I've also been told that the BS section is the really important section. At this point, I don't know. But given that PS is "just" general chemistry and physics, I feel like it may carry the least weight.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Do you think physical sciences is considered the hardest section by adcoms? If so, is it good to score really high on this section?

If it is the case, then why do people say adcoms care about the VR the most?

I don't think this is true. I think all are considered equally. I have a friend that scored 9 PS 13 VR 9 BS (= 31) and he said that he was questioned about whether he was really sure that he wanted to be a doctor at nearly every interview (i.e. the low sciences scores came up at interviews.)

Like someone else said, balanced is probably best.

J

 

[Mr. Tee]

Isn't STEP 1 supposed to be knowledge based? How the heck is verbal reasoning supposed to be the active skill set?

 

[musiclink213]

I've talked to a few admissions counselors at various schools, looking to see what will imporve my app. At more than one school, they told me they look at VR first, then BS, then PS. So PS is the least important score, but they still want to see it well balanced and high.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

Isn't STEP 1 supposed to be knowledge based? How the heck is verbal reasoning supposed to be the active skill set?

Verbal reasoning is based on how well you can read, incorporate, and use entirely new knowledge/material. I'm sure that this ability is correlated with the ability to learn the material in medical school and do well on the boards. Students who can read and grasp the key points quickly will have a huge advantage in medical school.
Also, since VR is not based on any previous knowledge, it is an equal playing field and might be useful to adcoms in terms of measuring aptitude (whereas the science sections are more achievement based).

 

[PittMedicine]

If thats the case, and VR is the most important, then why does VR always have the lowest average score for matriculants while PS and BS are always higher?

 

[MediMama23]

If thats the case, and VR is the most important, then why does VR always have the lowest average score for matriculants while PS and BS are always higher?

Because the majority of students haven't quite mastered the art that is VR?

Most people applying are "scientists," or "science-minded," if you will. We are given facts, and we memorize them and regurgitate them on demand. VR requires us to look at what's in front of us and not draw on outside information, which is the opposite for BS and PS. This concept is foreign to a lot of premed students (and I'm one of them), because they take lots of classes where they have to call upon what they learned previously. Those who are humanities majors or take the majority of classes where they are forced to reason their way to the answer (if there even IS an answer) or just know how to rationalize the way that the MCAT asks them to are at an advantage. Unfortunately, as statistics show, this is not the majority of students. Not to say that those who can't hack it in the VR department won't do well in medical school, but it may be harder for them.

 

[Mr. Tee]

Verbal reasoning is based on how well you can read, incorporate, and use entirely new knowledge/material.

Kinda. It's not really about reading, but about being able to answer their vague questions.

I'm sure that this ability is correlated with the ability to learn the material in medical school and do well on the boards.

Vague reasoning is what makes a doctor?

Students who can read and grasp the key points quickly will have a huge advantage in medical school.

True, but the VR doesn't measure your ability to grasp key science points, which is the bulk of medical school. The PS and BS do this. Step 1 tests this.

Sorry, I'm just on a VR hating spree right now

 

[sweetstuff25]

VR seems very subjective. The individual who created the questions may have a different level of reasoning to approach an answer versus the individual dying to decipher what he/she is trying to think. It almost seems as if having an open mind can hurt you on VR where as Med school probably would require you to approach answers from different angles coming up with various theories. VR reasoning is useless and I want it abolished. I want solid answer choices or answer choices that have flexibility. Being vague does not fulfill any of those requirements. But that's me, cuz i personally hate that section and don't want it to be a determinant to my future.

 

[rcd]

National averages for 2003 matriculates:
biology - 10.2
physical sciences - 10.0
verbal - 9.5

Draw your own conclusions here, but it looks like vr is slightly less important.

 

[MediMama23]

National averages for 2003 matriculates:
biology - 10.2
physical sciences - 10.0
verbal - 9.5

Draw your own conclusions here, but it looks like vr is slightly less important.

Whoooooa, there. Just because the average is less, does NOT mean that it's less important. VR is a much more difficult section to do well on in the MCAT than the sciences, due to a smaller number of questions and a sick curve as evidenced by AAMC conversion charts and the conversion charts of the different test prep companies that have their own tests. And again, MCAT scores are not the ONLY thing that medical schools look at in future doctors. These are averages, so they've obviously taken crappier scores than these, just like they've taken better scores than those posted.

Yeah, it LOOKS like it's less important. Trouble is, it's not. I mean, are we going to be using lots of physics and general chemistry in med school? Not so much, but the average is higher. You can do well in the science sections because you can study your butt off and learn as much as you can to bring into the test. Verbal is not the same.

 

[rcd]

Whoooooa, there. Just because the average is less, does NOT mean that it's less important. VR is a much more difficult section to do well on in the MCAT than the sciences, due to a smaller number of questions and a sick curve as evidenced by AAMC conversion charts and the conversion charts of the different test prep companies that have their own tests. And again, MCAT scores are not the ONLY thing that medical schools look at in future doctors. These are averages, so they've obviously taken crappier scores than these, just like they've taken better scores than those posted.

Yeah, it LOOKS like it's less important. Trouble is, it's not. I mean, are we going to be using lots of physics and general chemistry in med school? Not so much, but the average is higher. You can do well in the science sections because you can study your butt off and learn as much as you can to bring into the test. Verbal is not the same.

Well, like I said, "draw your own conclusions." I'm not seeing how anything you said negates my hypothesis of vr being less important though. Maybe I should be clear that I mean vr score, not the section in particular.

 

[MediMama23]

Well, like I said, "draw your own conclusions." I'm not seeing how anything you said negates my hypothesis of vr being less important though. Maybe I should be clear that I mean vr score, not the section in particular.

Yeah, score. Thanks for the clarification. You can only obtain a score by completing the section, right? And how high you score still depends on how the section is structured and whether you can complete it, no? But you're right, adcoms could care less about the section itself; they want the score. The VR score, however, is still not less important than the others. And that's my conclusion.

 

[trustwomen]

National averages for 2003 matriculates:
biology - 10.2
physical sciences - 10.0
verbal - 9.5

Draw your own conclusions here, but it looks like vr is slightly less important.

Nope, it's a simple case of supply and demand. People taking the MCAT tend to score lower on verbal than on the sciences, and that is their pool of candidates - so the matriculants will reflect this tendency. MCAT takers do better on sciences because those sections do rely on prior science classes, and most applicants are science students. The humanities students tend to do better on verbal and slightly worse on sciences. And as mentioned, VR looks at a different skill set.

It's possible that the high VR/low science group may also have inferior GPAs to the low VR/high science group too (or at least lower science GPAs). But that's just a theory of mine.

 

[Polynikes]

I heard that VR is sometimes scored the highest at some schools, and that is because it shows that you have the ability to read a passage, understand what is being told to you, and you can absorb the information...

If you have a high VR and lower BS/PS, it could mean that your undergrad education or MCAT prep work was not as good as it could have been...

Then again, each medical school is different, and they all do what they want to do at the end of the day...

 

[notdeadyet]

Vague reasoning is what makes a doctor?

Not vague reasoning, but I'd imagine that making judgement calls based on vague information (lot of what VR is) is probably pretty important.