Physical Therapy and MONEY $$$

[jblil]

Get married if you want, but pay for your degree, and pay off your own debts, with your own money.
Take my word for it. I have been married longer than most of you have been alive.

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[kellerac]

Get married if you want, but pay for your degree, and pay off your own debts, with your own money.
Take my word for it. I have been married longer than most of you have been alive.

haha! But that's the plan. I didn't mean I'd be piggybacking off of her. Simply adding that we won't both be in debt, which should help with joint purchases (houses, cars, etc.). Thanks for advice!

 

[starrsgirl]

In my opinion, that's WAY to much debt to become a PT. Plan on earning 60K a year. Is that worth it? I know it's hard if you haven't had a job before to gauge 60K....but that sort of debt load is crushing on that small income. Yes, pharmacists and doctors have similar debt loads but their earning potential is much much higher. Being a PT is a fine job, but it has to make sense as well and there's probably an upper limit on what's reasonable.

I'm a non traditional student so I know my perspective is different. But there's a much bigger world out there, please consider all the factors for you and your future family.

 

[jesspt]

I'd like to dig this thread up and ask about my options and all of your opinions on such.

I'm probably attending a DPT school at a private institution in the summer, with the 3 year tuition being around $82-85k. I am about $80-90k in debt from my undergrad (bad I know, parents were unable to help, I settled at a PRN $10/hr hospital job for the experience, so not a lot of income). So when I'm finished with school I'll be anywhere from $180 - $200k in debt (CRINGE ).

While this is truly terrible, I have a girlfriend of 3 years who is going to graduate debt-free and work as a teacher (no knock to her, but salary will be on the lower side) immediately. Marriage at this point is a good possibility, so it's worth considering both of our financial situations. She also has a trust fund, and plenty of money in the stock market (Her grandfather founded, and eventually sold, an agriculture business, and helped out his grandchildren).

What does our financial situation look like to you all? I fully intend on living like a college student for a while (cheap apartments, driving 2003 Buick, eating microwaved chicken nuggets), so I have no pressing monetary issues. Once I'm a practicing PT, I also plan on working PRN, in addition to a full time job.

Also, I asked for my girlfriend's permission to share this information. Thanks for any help!

What are the odds that you're going to read anything on this thread that is going to dissuade you form attending this PT school?

It's my experience that almost no one places any real weight on the comments made in these type of posts.

You're going to take home under $4000/month. You're going to be paying back somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500/month (less if you use graduated payoff). That's already a pretty crappy debt/income ratio.

You're on the cusp of making a bad financial decision.

 

[kellerac]

What are the odds that you're going to read anything on this thread that is going to dissuade you form attending this PT school?

It's my experience that almost no one places any real weight on the comments made in these type of posts.

You're going to take home under $4000/month. You're going to be paying back somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500/month (less if you use graduated payoff). That's already a pretty crappy debt/income ratio.

You're on the cusp of making a bad financial decision.

What am I to do then? These are the circumstances I've been dealt. The reality is I've had no outside financial assistance, and have needed to use loans. My rent at the moment is $317 a month, and a drive a 13 year old car. I'm not living luxuriously, by any stretch.

My only other option of PT school is a public school, who's tuition is ~65k (as opposed to the $82k of the private one). I have not been accepted to that school yet, we hear back in late December. So either way, I'll be attending a $60k + school. Quite frankly these two schools were two of the cheapest I applied (out of eight schools, three of the schools were over $100k in tuition for 3 years). I feel like I'm at a loss now, but I don't see what I could have been doing differently to avoid this, other than working 4 jobs throughout my undergrad.

 

[futurePT2017]

What am I to do then? These are the circumstances I've been dealt. The reality is I've had no outside financial assistance, and have needed to use loans. My rent at the moment is $317 a month, and a drive a 13 year old car. I'm not living luxuriously, by any stretch.

My only other option of PT school is a public school, who's tuition is ~65k (as opposed to the $82k of the private one). I have not been accepted to that school yet, we hear back in late December. So either way, I'll be attending a $60k + school. Quite frankly these two schools were two of the cheapest I applied (out of eight schools, three of the schools were over $100k in tuition for 3 years). I feel like I'm at a loss now, but I don't see what I could have been doing differently to avoid this, other than working 4 jobs throughout my undergrad.

Does Ohio have any loan forgiveness programs? I know NC has one that allows you to get around $40,000 forgiven in exchange for working in NC for three years.

 

[kellerac]

Does Ohio have any loan forgiveness programs? I know NC has one that allows you to get around $40,000 forgiven in exchange for working in NC for three years.

I'll look into it. Thank you

 

[starrsgirl]

What is your undergrad degree? I would consider working for a few years and seeing how much you can pay down (and save up for tuition). Many schools require pre reqs to be either 5 or 10 years current. If you apply to schools with the 10 year rule, you could easily work 4-5 years and try to pay off that undergrad debt. Get yourself on your feet and then reapply. Actually, you may have a better income to debt ratio right now. Definitely do the math on that one.

Another option is to work a year and reapply next year if you don't get in the state program.

Another option is to consider other fields of interest with better income to debt ratios.

You ALWAYS have options. I just hate to see you get in a situation that you don't fully understand.

 

[jesspt]

What am I to do then? These are the circumstances I've been dealt. The reality is I've had no outside financial assistance, and have needed to use loans. My rent at the moment is $317 a month, and a drive a 13 year old car. I'm not living luxuriously, by any stretch.

My only other option of PT school is a public school, who's tuition is ~65k (as opposed to the $82k of the private one). I have not been accepted to that school yet, we hear back in late December. So either way, I'll be attending a $60k + school. Quite frankly these two schools were two of the cheapest I applied (out of eight schools, three of the schools were over $100k in tuition for 3 years). I feel like I'm at a loss now, but I don't see what I could have been doing differently to avoid this, other than working 4 jobs throughout my undergrad.

You can crunch the numbers. And if they mean you're going to have to live a lifestyle that you find untenable, or your salary simply can't cover your debt plus other necessary expenses, you should choose another career. I know that sounds harsh and absolutist, but getting yourself into too much debt at this early stage of your life could really be a life altering decision (and not in a good way).

 

[jmodpt]

In my opinion, that's WAY to much debt to become a PT. Plan on earning 60K a year. Is that worth it? I know it's hard if you haven't had a job before to gauge 60K....but that sort of debt load is crushing on that small income. Yes, pharmacists and doctors have similar debt loads but their earning potential is much much higher. Being a PT is a fine job, but it has to make sense as well and there's probably an upper limit on what's reasonable.

I'm a non traditional student so I know my perspective is different. But there's a much bigger world out there, please consider all the factors for you and your future family.

I agree with you 100%. I graduate from PT school 6 years ago. I bring home $900/weekly working as a PT. I pay $1,000/month in student loans (10 year repayment). I often ask myself how I would make it and support a family on my own.

It's a sad reality due to the inflated degree -- the program itself didn't change enough (yes, I get it - we have a radiology/pharma/etc now) to warrant the upcharge in education. the MPT vs DPT program were all three years, but now we are requiring a BS before PT school, thus making cost to attend much higher overall. Paying for 5 years of college versus 7 is a HUGE difference.

All of this debt for 75k a year, not worth it IMO. I kick myself every day for not just going on to medical school.

 

[Koala327]

Does Ohio have any loan forgiveness programs? I know NC has one that allows you to get around $40,000 forgiven in exchange for working in NC for three years.

@futurePT2017 what program in NC are you talking about? I'm considering attending Duke and with the price of tuition I'm needing to look at all my options!

 

[jblil]

The NC FELS program pays up to $14K/yr, forgiven in you stay and work in NC, year-for-year: if you got the FELS for 2 years, you work in NC for 2 years and it's forgiven. I am a recipient of it.

Duke and Elon are way overpriced, IMO. The best deal in NC is ECU. Where you go to school does not matter, once you pass the Boards. Think of your PT license as a driver's license.

 

[Koala327]

The NC FELS program pays up to $14K/yr, forgiven in you stay and work in NC, year-for-year: if you got the FELS for 2 years, you work in NC for 2 years and it's forgiven. I am a recipient of it.

Duke and Elon are way overpriced, IMO. The best deal in NC is ECU. Where you go to school does not matter, once you pass the Boards. Think of your PT license as a driver's license.

I agree that they are way overpriced. However, I only applied to three schools and Duke was one of the ones I was accepted at. Yes they have a big reputation with their name, but that's not my reasoning in potentially going there. I've done my research and I know that it doesn't matter what school you go to as long as it's accredited.

Do your have to apply for the NC FELS? Is there an unlimited amount of positions or does it depend?

 

[jblil]

You do have to apply for the FELS. I'd hurry if I were you, the funds are limited and not everyone will get it, esp. if you apply late. A couple of classmates (when I was still in school) procrastinated, and lost out on it.

 

[Koala327]

You do have to apply for the FELS. I'd hurry if I were you, the funds are limited and not everyone will get it, esp. if you apply late. A couple of classmates (when I was still in school) procrastinated, and lost out on it.

I haven't started PT school yet. Do you have to apply before your start school? Or do you apply when you are in your last year??

 

[jblil]

I haven't started PT school yet. Do you have to apply before your start school? Or do you apply when you are in your last year??

You apply for the FELS as soon as you have been accepted into a DPT program. If I remember correctly (it has been a while), FELS will make the check out to your school. You also have to reapply every year, but that's just a formality, as long as you do it early when the funds have not been exhausted.

 

[vm26]

I agree with you 100%. I graduate from PT school 6 years ago. I bring home $900/weekly working as a PT. I pay $1,000/month in student loans (10 year repayment). I often ask myself how I would make it and support a family on my own.

It's a sad reality due to the inflated degree -- the program itself didn't change enough (yes, I get it - we have a radiology/pharma/etc now) to warrant the upcharge in education. the MPT vs DPT program were all three years, but now we are requiring a BS before PT school, thus making cost to attend much higher overall. Paying for 5 years of college versus 7 is a HUGE difference.

All of this debt for 75k a year, not worth it IMO. I kick myself every day for not just going on to medical school.

Never too late. I did both but graduated from PT school when BS was just as common as a masters. Also was single and without any debt at that time...basically was a 12 year commitment (2 years to complete pre-reqs and study take MCATs, then 4 years of med school + 6 years of residency/fellowship). Overall happy with my decision but in hindsight def a b*tch of a long road....btw can't you switch to a 30 year repayment plan and just make extra payments when you have the cash?

 

[Grizzlyman]

I agree with you 100%. I graduate from PT school 6 years ago. I bring home $900/weekly working as a PT. I pay $1,000/month in student loans (10 year repayment). I often ask myself how I would make it and support a family on my own.

It's a sad reality due to the inflated degree -- the program itself didn't change enough (yes, I get it - we have a radiology/pharma/etc now) to warrant the upcharge in education. the MPT vs DPT program were all three years, but now we are requiring a BS before PT school, thus making cost to attend much higher overall. Paying for 5 years of college versus 7 is a HUGE difference.

All of this debt for 75k a year, not worth it IMO. I kick myself every day for not just going on to medical school.

Do you kick yourself because of the $$$ and quality of life that brings or because you would actually rather practice medicine.

 

[TulsaDPT]

Thanks for all the info above.

Anyone willing to shed more light on inpatient PT salaries?

In my metro area, I've heard salaries for new grads as low as $58,500 (outpatient) and as high as $81,000 (SNF) and $83,000 (home health), but have not found much solid info on inpatient salaries.

 

[jschaf4]

I am surprised nobody is mentioning Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), where you pay 10 years of loans and they wipe your loans (+ interest) clear if you work for a gov job and/or non-profit (most hospitals). One of my friends is doing a income based plan (25ish year plan) since at year 10 he should get his loans forgiven.

Sounds too good to be true, but I am curious if any therapists are pursuing this payback option? When you crunch the numbers, in theory this is a lot more fiscally sound than those who are attempting to pay back their loans in a shorter duration.

But what the heck do I know, im just a SPT lol.

Note: info on PSLF https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

 

[SloanTriumph]

This one of several posts I have read on this forum about home health paying very well. At the most recent CSM in Vegas, I was chatting with a PT at the home health section booth. I told him that I had heard/read that home health can pay substantially more than other areas of PT, and asked him if he thought that was accurate. Surprisingly, he said no, and said that if PTs are making near 100K doing home health, then they might not be spending enough time with patients, or potentially doing something unethical to squeeze more patients into their day. What do you think of this? Are you working more than 40 hours? How many patients do you see per day?

I'm only a student, but i feel like there is a lot of disparity between PT salaries and some PT's don't want to hear that other PT's are making more than them. Regardless, PTs are paid relative to the amount of money they are able to generate.

 

[SloanTriumph]

Thanks for all the info above.

Anyone willing to shed more light on inpatient PT salaries?

In my metro area, I've heard salaries for new grads as low as $58,500 (outpatient) and as high as $81,000 (SNF) and $83,000 (home health), but have not found much solid info on inpatient salaries.

Really depends on the city.

 

[Grizzlyman]

I am surprised nobody is mentioning Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), where you pay 10 years of loans and they wipe your loans (+ interest) clear if you work for a gov job and/or non-profit (most hospitals). One of my friends is doing a income based plan (25ish year plan) since at year 10 he should get his loans forgiven.

Sounds too good to be true, but I am curious if any therapists are pursuing this payback option? When you crunch the numbers, in theory this is a lot more fiscally sound than those who are attempting to pay back their loans in a shorter duration.

But what the heck do I know, im just a SPT lol.

Note: info on PSLF https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

These programs are usually pretty similar to working a non government job, making more money and just paying loans.

It's usually easier to just work an extra day a week until loans are paid off. It sucks but that is the price for going into debt.


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[jschaf4]

These programs are usually pretty similar to working a non government job, making more money and just paying loans.

It's usually easier to just work an extra day a week until loans are paid off. It sucks but that is the price for going into debt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the feedback. Are you certain of this though? I know a PT who works at a hospital in Chicago that is non for profit, makes an average PT salary, and is going the PSLF route. I also know of a PT who makes above starting PT salary working at the VA (gov job) and is going the PSLF route.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

Thanks for the feedback. Are you certain of this though? I know a PT who works at a hospital in Chicago that is non for profit, makes an average PT salary, and is going the PSLF route. I also know of a PT who makes above starting PT salary working at the VA (gov job) and is going the PSLF route.

Other starting positions I've seen have ranged from 80k-110k and have included ortho mills, snfs, and obviously home health. Peds has even been 90-110k which is very odd. I'm not sure how the reimbursement with insurance over there goes on. All in all you will see that usual 55-70k average start of course which becomes more of the norm as you leave the geography.

Federal jobs usually start you on a GS scale which will be the average starting salary, perhaps slightly less.....USUALLY

 

[occupationalguy]

I am surprised nobody is mentioning Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), where you pay 10 years of loans and they wipe your loans (+ interest) clear if you work for a gov job and/or non-profit (most hospitals). One of my friends is doing a income based plan (25ish year plan) since at year 10 he should get his loans forgiven.

Sounds too good to be true, but I am curious if any therapists are pursuing this payback option? When you crunch the numbers, in theory this is a lot more fiscally sound than those who are attempting to pay back their loans in a shorter duration.

But what the heck do I know, im just a SPT lol.

Note: info on PSLF https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

1. The new Budget proposed, if it passes will slash it to 60k total forgiveness max.
2. Say that doesn't pass. Keep in mind the forgiven amount is added to your income for that year.
3. You must work at a NON PROFIT.

For example, if they write off 80k in loans, that 80k is added to your income and you are responsible for the excess taxes which result.

 

[Schland]

1. The new Budget proposed, if it passes will slash it to 60k total forgiveness max.
2. Say that doesn't pass. Keep in mind the forgiven amount is added to your income for that year.
3. You must work at a NON PROFIT.

For example, if they write off 80k in loans, that 80k is added to your income and you are responsible for the excess taxes which result.

This isn't true. When loans are forgiven by PSLF the amount forgiven is NOT taxed as income. Please see page 2 question 3 https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/sites/...service-loan-forgiveness-common-questions.pdf

If you use IBR for 25 years and then your loans are forgiven that amount IS taxable income.

That being said 10 years is a really long time to dedicate to a job. So many things can change in 10 years time (marriage, moving, or having kids and deciding you want to work part time). Or you may no longer want to be at that job. Yes you can get another job at another not for profit if you move and continue but it limits your job choices.

 

[occupationalguy]

Well that's good, I heard people say otherwise, and I'm glad to know it's not the case re the tax.

You don't need to dedicate ten consecutive years at any one job. You must simply work a total amount of ten years at a qualifying employer. That can be consecutive or not. It need not be at the same employer.
Yes it limits your job options.