Physician assistant vs dentist

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toothfairysupreme

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Hey guys so I got into dental school!!!!exciting right?! Well that 450k price tag has me questioning everything. I recently came across physician assistant? Can someone shine some light on what they think and if it's a better alternative?!?? Sinercerly lost and confused
 
PA is probably the best school/salary combo going right now. Three years of schooling and you're making six figures with good flexibility of being able to choose where you want to work/relocate easily. However, you will never be your own boss and will always have someone to answer to. Personally, I want to own a practice, build a business, and curtail it to my preferences. I wouldn't be happier later in life knowing the ceiling of my career would be someone's assistant, but again that's just a personal preference.
 
Master Yoda said:
You went through the entire process...completed all the requirements....took the DAT.....job shadowed..... and now you are questioning the price tag? What where you thinking?
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I've loved the profession but I never thought about the financies and now I'm thinking working as an associate in the beginning with 110k is not reasonable considering how insane this loan is. Is this like an average loan amount?
 
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Gold_Toof said:
PA is probably the best school/salary combo going right now. Three years of schooling and you're making six figures with good flexibility of being able to choose where you want to work/relocate easily. However, you will never be your own boss and will always have someone to answer to. Personally, I want to own a practice, build a business, and curtail it to my preferences. I wouldn't be happier later in life knowing the ceiling of my career would be someone's assistant, but again that's just a personal preference.
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YES! I agree with you completely my worry is though that I'll be forever working as an associate because i can't take out a loan for a practice given that my loan is gonna be so high!
 
toothfairysupreme said:
I've loved the profession but I never thought about the financies and now I'm thinking working as an associate in the beginning with 110k is not reasonable considering how insane this loan is. Is this like an average loan amount? I think reality is hitting
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toothfairysupreme said:
YES! I agree with you completely my worry is though that I'll be forever working as an associate because i can't take out a loan for a practice given that my loan is gonna be so high!
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I woulda thought about this long before I bothered applying. And it's not too late to drop your acceptance.
 
toothfairysupreme said:
I've loved the profession but I never thought about the financies and now I'm thinking working as an associate in the beginning with 110k is not reasonable considering how insane this loan is. Is this like an average loan amount? I think reality is hitting
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Reality is hitting you NOW? What did you score in QR?
 
Screwtape said:
No acceptances to more reasonably priced schools ?
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Seriously.
What's a better idea? Start the entire process for a whole new career from scratch? Or try to make oneself more competitive for a cheaper school?

Some people are just...wow.
 
toothfairysupreme said:
Hey guys so I got into dental school!!!!exciting right?! Well that 450k price tag has me questioning everything. I recently came across physician assistant? Can someone shine some light on what they think and if it's a better alternative?!?? Sinercerly lost and confused
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Why not apply to Med School? You've essentially taken all the pre-requisities...
 
Likkriue said:
I'm guessing mcat and doing medical ECs are going to take awhile. Also won't get to pratice for at least 7 years in top of that.
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But doesnt PA school have an entrance exam as well? And with the PA route.. OP would still need to bank shadowing hours anyways... I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...
 
kidsaremypassion said:
But doesnt PA school have an entrance exam as well? And with the PA route.. OP would still need to bank shadowing hours anyways... I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...
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Well for PA it's max 3 years less debt and straight to work. You make much less of course. But time is of the essence.
 
man you really should have thought this through a long time ago. PA is great but good luck getting all the experience requirements and applying to these highly competitive programs.
 
I'd stick with dentistry. Much higher income potential, autonomy and independence, and you get to be involved in procedures that are complex and interesting that require fine motor skills. You also get to build great relationships with people in the community that you serve in.
 
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You should go PA. Great career progression, much faster, more opportunities.
 
I get that "faster'" is important to a degree. But "faster" is not always better. Think of the role you envision yourself playing. Do you have any desire at all to be "the boss" or would you be happy taking the backseat and coming along for the ride, so to speak? Two different roles, for different personalities..
 
kidsaremypassion said:
I get that "faster'" is important to a degree. But "faster" is not always better. Think of the role you envision yourself playing. Do you have any desire at all to be "the boss" or would you be happy taking the backseat and coming along for the ride, so to speak? Two different roles, for different personalities..
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We had a PA post here not too long ago about his desire to apply to dental school.

"Sorry for the delay, it's been a crazy week. Being a derm PA is a pretty sweet gig, yeah. I work 4.5 days per week, make a decent salary, do occasional small procedures, etc. However, I've quickly found out that there's more to being satisfied than a healthy salary. I have also realized that playing second fiddle isn't something I can deal with throughout the rest of my career. I love working with patients, I get along great with co-workers, etc., but not being the final decision maker or dealing with the higher acuity patients has been tough to deal with. Plus, it's been a pain in the butt dealing with arrogant providers outside of our practice. The lack of respect is frightening, just due to the two letters after my name. It gets tiresome dealing with this; peruse these forums and you'll know what I mean."

Non-trad practicing PA interested in dental school
 
The "faster" thing always gives me a chuckle. If fast was all that mattered, we would just work right after highschool. What you pay in years often pays off in the future. That's why you get your bachelors (say engineering) to get a good 90-120k job. Then maybe 4 years of d school if you want 120-300k and so on. Also why investment bankers are willing to work 100 hr weeks for lousy pay for years until they make it big.
 
kidsaremypassion said:
I get that "faster'" is important to a degree. But "faster" is not always better. Think of the role you envision yourself playing. Do you have any desire at all to be "the boss" or would you be happy taking the backseat and coming along for the ride, so to speak? Two different roles, for different personalities..
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She seems more like a "backseat" kind of girl, so that's why I suggested it.
 
toothfairysupreme said:
YES! I agree with you completely my worry is though that I'll be forever working as an associate because i can't take out a loan for a practice given that my loan is gonna be so high!
Click to expand...
You can still take out a practice loan with those student loans.
 
In my limited experience, those two professions are suited for very different personality types. So if you are more a leader, go dentist...and if you are more risk averse or more a follower (and I don't mean this to be insulting) go PA.
 
tskiihii said:
In my limited experience, those two professions are suited for very different personality types. So if you are more a leader, go dentist...and if you are more risk averse or more a follower (and I don't mean this to be insulting) go PA.
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What type of PA are you?
 
tskiihii said:
In my limited experience, those two professions are suited for very different personality types. So if you are more a leader, go dentist...and if you are more risk averse or more a follower (and I don't mean this to be insulting) go PA.
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jaguars-fan-confused-wtf.gif
 
Lets keep the personal attacks to a minimum yall..
Maybe OP is more of a "lean back" personality...but its hard to tell from a few sentences. I just think its wise to examine all perspectives of a career path. Will OP still be content with the PA role in her 40s and 50s ? Thats the real question here...
 
kidsaremypassion said:
Lets keep the personal attacks to a minimum yall..
Maybe OP is more of a "lean back" personality...but its hard to tell from a few sentences. I just think its wise to examine all perspectives of a career path. Will OP still be content with the PA role in her 40s and 50s ? Thats the real question here...
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yea PA is all fun and games until you're the 50 year old in the hospital being told around by some doe eyed 28 year olds.
 
The $450k probably doesn't include accrued interest while you're in school and also the tuition increases. You'd most likely be looking at $500k+ when you graduate. Unless I had a golden ticket (family has amazing practice) I would not go into this amount of debt for a dental degree. So either pursue HPSP, NHSC, etc or figure something else out. Some schools give in state after a year. Some schools give scholarships. Best of luck.
 
If all you're making as an associate is 110k a year I'd keep looking. I know three people who have came out of d school in the last 4 years and everyone of them started over 200k straight out of school.


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being a PA seems like a pretty rewarding career, and from my understanding, the level of autonomy you would feel on a day to day basis really depends on where you are working and what specialty you are working in. it's especially a good choice if you have some underlying interest in medicine and feel at all limited by focusing on the oral cavity.
 
The amount of effort OP is going to spend to get accepted to PA school, is not that far off from what she would expend to apply to DO/MD programs.
Plus consider that PAs play very similar roles to NPs.When programs are relatively short and slightly "easier" to attain, they tend to be singing the tunes of saturation quicker. Not saying this will for sure happen, but it's a possibility in the educational climate we are in.
Unless OP is 35 with two children, and multiple familial obligations, I don't see why the "quicker " route is "better", unless of course that's what she really wants.
OP, the years will come and go. I remember my first day of undergrad like it was yesterday. Now it's 10 years later.
Be honest with yourself and choose the path you'd truly enjoy.
 
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I considered PA for a long time until I talked to a 50 year old PA who told me exactly what has been said here. He said that his career was amazing for the first 5 years or so. He was making more money than all his friends and had a cool sounding job. Well once he got into his 40's he had already hit a ceiling in terms of income and knowledge and autonomy and started getting really dissatisfied, especially when he realized he had another 20 years to go! All his friends that were doctors were now out of school and were instantly making double what he was making and had careers where they were always growing. He said he was wanting to apply to med school.. The low point came when a brand new doctor entered the hospital and instantly became his boss even though he had been at the hospital for 20 years and had probably more knowledge than the newly graduated doctor. He has and said he will continue to tell people go for the full doctor. Because its all amazing in your 20's and 30's but no one likes being the 40, 50, or even 60 year old PA. Its not fun and games then. Changed my career goal and haven't looked back! Think about where you wanna be in 20-30 years. Because we work for a long time; some 40 years. Its a lot to consider.
 
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smurfeyD said:
I considered PA for a long time until I talked to a 50 year old PA who told me exactly what has been said here. He said that his career was amazing for the first 5 years or so. He was making more money than all his friends and had a cool sounding job. Well once he got into his 40's he had already his a ceiling in terms of income and knowledge and autonomy and started getting really dissatisfied. All his friends that were doctors made double what he was making and had careers where they were always growing. He said he was wanting to apply to med school.. The low point came when a brand new doctor entered the hospital and instantly became his boss even though he had been at the hospital for 20 years and had probably more knowledge than the newly graduated doctor. He has and said he will continue to tell people go for the full doctor. Because its all amazing in your 20's and 30's but no one likes being the 40, 50, or even 60 year old PA. Its not fun and games then. Changed my career goal and haven't looked back! Think about where you wanna be in 20-30 years. Because we work for a long time; some 40 years. Its a lot to consider.
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That's a great point. Honestly never thought how weird it would be being the 50 year old assistant to a 26 year old doc because there's absolutely no way that person would know more than you. I think same goes for anyone thinking they want to do hygiene as well. That's the bad part about healthcare is the "tier" system. Doesn't really work the same way for lawyers or businessmen


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
OP,

Be careful that you're not falling into "grass is greener" syndrome - PA is also running into trouble - Take a look at the trends in the PA field. 80+ new programs opening, saturation increasing as everyone chases it, etc.

Here's some research by our very own @Cello

Cello said:
********************Physician Assistant********************​

...I currently have $32k in undergraduate debt. I got accepted to an out-of-state pa program. I plan on living as cheap as possible. However, I estimate my total loan burden after two years of PA school will be around $155-160k including all fees and compounded interest.

Is that worth a $70-85k starting salary?...

...My sister in-law started at $63k working for the community health department, great benefits, but it didn't qualify for loan repayment. She just got an offer from the local prison to make $105k/year. Are these fears normal?...

-----

...Honestly if you don't change your lifestyle and live like a poor college grad after PA school you should be able to dump tons of money back into your loans... Also if you are planning on working in rural community health as a FP PA Then you should qualify for federal and state loan forgiveness programs. It's something like 70K (in WA state) and 50K in federal funds...

...Just live below your means, and be smart about where you live and the dept will take care of itself...

Is the debt worth it? - Financial Aid

..I enjoy being a PA but I hate to see so much hard earned money going to school loans. There are ways to repay loans faster (NHSC, military)...

-----

...I am in my third clinical rotation and I hate being a PA student and I really regret starting PA school. The only reason I haven't quit yet is because of all the debt I have acquired from the last year and a half of school...

-----

...Yes, it was worth it, but it's rapidly getting to the point of diminishing return. I went to school as a non-traditional student (age 40), pulled a total of $105k in loans for tuition and living expenses (at 8%+), and am now faced with the burden of paying that much off (as well as saving for retirement) at a later stage. Having said that, I figure I can do it in 4 yrs but it'll require NHSC loan repayment and continuing to live like a student to do it. It won't be as fun as it could be.... Tuition and fees, especially at private institutions, are rising way faster than inflation, and the return on your investment isn't increasing proportionally...

Was It Worth It? - Financial Aid

...the lack of recognition and respect is very problematic. many docs hate PAs. many nurses think of PAs as the enemy. the public thinks we are medical assistants.
the autonomy and ability to work up to your skill set and gain an appropriate scope of practice is only won through a major struggle.
the potential for advancement is minimal. it has taken me 16 years to claw my way up to a job I enjoy. I have to drive 3 hrs from a major metro area to a very rural area to have that job.
if you have any doubts, go to medschool. I should have...

-----

...Want money go work on wallstreet! If you have a desire to help people go into healthcare please! Tired of hospital people who are in the game for the wrong reasons which is at an all time high I am afraid... (I think I adequately demonstrated that the Wall Street guys are complaining too! 😉 )

http://www.physicianassistantforum....pa-school-worth-the-future-of-the-profession/

...in my opinion the market is about to become super saturated. Over EIGHTY PA PROGRAMS ARE IN DEVELOPMENT. The university system in the United States is absurd in how it creates a business out of degrees regardless of how it positions students. PA's might be better off than NP in the future in that PAs are versatile...

-----

...Well FNPs are versatile as well, and that is my main concern: FNPs ruining the market for other FNPs as well as PAs. I didn't realize PA programs were exploding like that as well, very scary.

Part of me feels like the NP profession does have one built in "safety" that the PA profession does not - all NPs are RN's and must maintain their RN license to remain an NP. As such, the NP salary could never dip below the RN salary for an area, as NPs would simply be able to return to their RN roots. This creates a floor of about 50-60K in most areas, and as high as 70-80K in other areas. PAs on the other hand have no fallback - if an out of work PA had to pay bills and the only job offer was for 45K, they have no choice but to take it...

-----

...This forum is notorious for being negative about the future...

Will NPs Destroy the Job Market? - Professional PA General Discussion

...I agree with SocialMed, I think saturation is happening as we speak and will peak in the next 5 years or so...

-----

...Those of us who have been out practicing for a few years will be fine. But I could see those who are applying or planning to apply in the near future may struggle with an increasingly saturated job market- which, as many pointed out above, has a lot to do with location and specialty...

PA field saturation - Professional PA General Discussion

...Hello. I am a new PA-C. Graduated in May, have had a couple of interviews, but have not been able to secure employment. The last interview went fantastic but I was not chosen due to lack of experience. Most of the positions in my area are for experienced PAs or require relocation, which I am not able to do at this time. I have applied for a residency program, but, even if selected, this is likely to not start until September. I am very frustrated and stir-crazy. I have put my CV out to several recruiting sites. I was told that finding a position would be easy. Not so much for me. Any suggestions?...

-----

...This is a very a common problem that I had also faced after I graduated in 2011. It took me 3 or 4 months to land a part time gig and then another 3-4 months to actually be able to start full time at an ER full time. The field is saturated now and you will have better luck if you relocate. Also, if you are more flexible with your pay and specialty. Good Luck...

Can't get hired - Professional PA General Discussion
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Master Yoda said:
You went through the entire process...completed all the requirements....took the DAT.....job shadowed..... and now you are questioning the price tag? What where you thinking?
Click to expand...

She's more thoughtful of this process than A LOT of pre-dents who think "loans" will take care of everything and don't question signing on for $500K+ in cost of attendance. Better late than never!
 
The question I ask myself is, is $450k worth the freedom to be your own boss and have to be someone else's b*tch?

I've thought about that question for a long time and I realized that I cannot be a primary care physician, RN, or PA because of that. Although I've never actually said that in my interviews LOL

If you're fine with taking orders and the cost of school debt outweighs the possibility of being treated as an "assistant" then go for it. Also, if you're not financially savvy and want to rely on your employer for 401k/IRA and paid vacation time, being a PA is actually an excellent option if you like paid benefits.
 
redhotchiligochu said:
The question I ask myself is, is $450k worth the freedom to be your own boss and have to be someone else's b*tch?

I've thought about that question for a long time and I realized that I cannot be a primary care physician, RN, or PA because of that. Although I've never actually said that in my interviews LOL

If you're fine with taking orders and the cost of school debt outweighs the possibility of being treated as an "assistant" then go for it. Also, if you're not financially savvy and want to rely on your employer for 401k/IRA and paid vacation time, being a PA is actually an excellent option if you like paid benefits.
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PA is a great option for what it was intended to be: those with 10-15 years of experience as nurses, EMT's or other healthcare professionals that wanted to advance in their autonomy and knowledge but didnt have time for medical school. It wasnt started to take away 23-25 year old newly graduated bachelor students. Now programs are popping up everywhere with "clinical experience not required" and its just crazy.
 
Medin2017 said:
yea PA is all fun and games until you're the 50 year old in the hospital being told around by some doe eyed 28 year olds.
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100% this.

OP, it's one thing to be in your twenties when you are youthful full of energy and want to be done with school. Yeah, that 90k salary after two years with the PA route sounds good, but you will have a career that is gonna last 40 years. You better do something you like or at the very least, can learn to enjoy over those years.

This not being the boss thing is prevalent as an MD or DDS, but at least the bosses are higher ranking food chain wise. I would go to podiatry school before ever considering PA school at least with podiatry you are fighting for equality on a doctor to doctor level with ortho, kind of like MD vs DO 50 years ago
 
GypsyHummus said:
100% this.

OP, it's one thing to be in your twenties when you are youthful full of energy and want to be done with school. Yeah, that 90k salary after two years with the PA route sounds good, but you will have a career that is gonna last 40 years. You better do something you like or at the very least, can learn to enjoy over those years.

This not being the boss thing is prevalent as an MD or DDS, but at least the bosses are higher ranking food chain wise. I would go to podiatry school before ever considering PA school at least with podiatry you are fighting for equality on a doctor to doctor level with ortho, kind of like MD vs DO 50 years ago
Click to expand...

Preview
 
Incis0r said:
OP,

Be careful that you're not falling into "grass is greener" syndrome - PA is also running into trouble - Take a look at the trends in the PA field. 80+ new programs opening, saturation increasing as everyone chases it, etc.

Here's some research by our very own @Cello
Click to expand...
As you pointed out, there really isn't any "golden" field out there. All professions have their brown grass and green grass. Those multi-million dollar deals a wall street broker can profit from can fall through at any minute, loses his job, held reliable for anything, becomes bankrupt. Medicine makes you work for so long during the week (dad is a physician and he really doesn't enjoy his career). Business majors unless doing their own company get treated like **** from their bosses.

You never have true job security anywhere, unless self employed, period.

Pharm, PA, podiatry have all lost some appeal they once had in the past. Same with dentistry, same for many jobs. IT is hot now? Technology changes every year in an exponential rate. Pretty soon people are going to be expendable with all the new IT gurus graduating school and surely enough, that once rewarding career is ruined.

I take great pride knowing that although thousands of dentists graduate per year, there is an insane bottleneck from wanting to be a dentist versus actually getting into dental school. We will never truly experience saturation as bad as other fields no matter what anyone says. If you don't believe me, try getting a job with your biology degree, or a job paying over 70k right out of college with a business degree.
 
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