Physician assistant vs dentist

[GypsyHummus]

As a doctor of naturopathy I agree with your argument. My wife is a doctor in nursing and she agrees with you too. Doctors unite !

Uh oh, we about to go down this road, aren't we?

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[Bubbaman]

Dental school IS extremely expensive. You are smart to think about finances because people really don't understand what it means to be 500+k in debt. However, dentistry is a promising career that pays well. I'd say your best option is to look into scholarship, particularly the HPSP military scholarship and the NHSS scholarship and have Uncle Sam pay for everything. Either way, the choice is yours...good luck!

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[Medin2017]

Dental school IS extremely expensive. You are smart to think about finances because people really don't understand what it means to be 500+k in debt. However, dentistry is a promising career that pays well. I'd say your best option is to look into scholarship, particularly the HPSP military scholarship and the NHSS scholarship and have Uncle Sam pay for everything. Either way, the choice is yours...good luck!

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Yea now that I think about it 500k in debt is super tough to handle. If you make 150k net income, you get taxed again and that post tax payment is what goes to loans apparently. Coupled with income loss in 4 years, seems like a not so good way to go, considering some engineers can make 100-120k without post undergrad studies and no debt.

 

[Ollivander]

You went through the entire process...completed all the requirements....took the DAT.....job shadowed..... and now you are questioning the price tag? What where you thinking?

To be fair I'm in the same boat. It took me longer than I'd like to admit to finish my degree along with all the pre-dental prereqs, I signed up for the DAT twice and skipped out on it once, job shadowed, volunteered in niche dentistry opportunities, put in hundreds of hours into my personal statement, breaking down the range of acceptance by oGPA/sGPA/DAT/req prereqs/costs for every single school to form a list of ones I wanted to apply to, and enrolled in a SMP to improve my chances all to come to the same conclusion that the price tag might not be worth it.

I don't see that entirely as time that was wasted. I learned a lot. I became a more efficient student, a more analytical thinker regarding being conscious of the debt I would have/will be taking on, a better decision-maker, and became aware what healthcare careers were and were not worth the price of admission into the career. I'm glad I won't be in my mid-30's or 40's stuck in rural wherever just to pay off the private/OOS debt as well as whatever debt I took out to buy a practice. I would have been stuck for quite some time with that crippling amount of combined debt that it takes to become a dentist and more so an owner of a private practice.

It's extremely difficult to actually realize what you're getting yourself into when you're 18-20 years old deciding on what path to take. Then once you decide on that path you kind of become blind to the other factors that might be changing around you. Most of us focus on doing well in school and preparing ourselves to be the best applicant we can be. We don't actually have time to sit back and re-evaluate the path we're heading on to actually reaffirm that its still such a great decision as it was when we were young at 18-20 years old. This is primarily because school, keeping your grades up, volunteering, shadowing, taking entrance exams is all very demanding and daunting.

 

[Ollivander]

Seriously.
What's a better idea? Start the entire process for a whole new career from scratch? Or try to make oneself more competitive for a cheaper school?

Some people are just...wow.

1) I can see why you got banned from this sub-forum. Every post you've made over the last week or two has come off in such a condescending manner.

2) Most healthcare professions generally require the same prereqs. So if you're staying within the healthcare realm, you can change from dentistry to MD/DO/OD/Vet/PA/Pharm with ease. You might need a couple of classes more, but that can be accomplished in one semester.

 

[Ollivander]

But doesnt PA school have an entrance exam as well? And with the PA route.. OP would still need to bank shadowing hours anyways... I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...

The GRE is vastly easier than the MCAT. Also it is much easier to get into PA school than it is into an allopathic medical school. DO and PA are probably on the same level though in terms of competitiveness. Although then you've got to think about whether or not you want to be in school for the next 7-10 years (depending upon what specialty you pursue).

As far as the hours you need prior to graduate school, that can be obtained in a year's time. I guess when comparing it to dentistry you just need to ask yourself what's going to be the bigger burden; the 400-500K debt or taking a year off to accrue the hours you need in order to apply to graduate school?

Dentistry wins in terms of lifetime earnings, but you're not going to see those returns where they surpass the alternative until your 50's anyway. At that point you could have made enough wise investments to match the dentistry returns as well. I'm not saying one option is better than the other. It comes down to a personal decision and what you feel comfortable with. Different strokes for different folks. For me -- I just want out of my parent's house and start living on my own at an earlier age to be honest. I need to see the world and meet new people, and not at 40 years old after I'm done paying back lots of debt.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

I'm not sure why people are comparing dentistry to PA (a better comparison would be dental therapist to PA). Why not compare being a doctor or a dentist? That's a more interesting comparison. I'd take being a dentist over PA any day of the week. Although, I can think of no better master's degree than PA in terms of return on investment.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I can see your point, but one thing people need to understand before they make a career decision is that 40-45 isn't old... If you graduated dental school at 30 and had high debts it is going to suck. Yes you won't see as high an ROI as you wanted. However, when that debt is paid off and you are 40-45, you still have 20+ years of working.. And at that point you will have a great income, job security, and (heres the difference in my opinion) full autonomy without a ceiling. I think thats the main consensus we've all touched on in this thread. PA is better for the first 5-10 years. However when you're in your 40's as a PA, you've hit your ceiling. You can only do so much.

Thats not even to mention the saturation that is occurring with mid levels. PA programs are popping up everywhere and NP programs are becoming crazy... like an all online doctorate degree.. And PA's have been awful at lobbying for autonomy. They have to compete with the HUGE nursing lobby who have now been granted full autonomy in some states without having to be under the supervision of a doctor.

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

It's in the degree hun. Doctor of Podiatric Medicine

I guess by your ingenious logic, nurses are considered doctors too.

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

As a doctor of naturopathy I agree with your argument. My wife is a doctor in nursing and she agrees with you too. Doctors unite !

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I guess by your ingenious logic, nurses are considered doctors too.

Technically they have a doctorate. So they are doctors. However they are not physicians.

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

Technically they have a doctorate. So they are doctors. However they are not physicians.

Sure. That is certainly correct; however, in reference to the context in which I was quoting the other poster, they are not considered MDs and will never garner the same level of respect MDs command.

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

This meme wasn't funny the second time

Memes aren't funny at NOVA? They are at UF.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Sure. That is certainly correct; however, in reference to the context in which I was quoting the other poster, they are not considered MDs and will never garner the same level of respect MDs command.

Why knock DNP when you are going to be a DDS soon?

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

Why knock DNP when you are going to be a DDS soon?

Not "knocking" on anyone. Simply stating the reality. Or the real world, if you want.

 

[Screwtape]

Sure. That is certainly correct; however, in reference to the context in which I was quoting the other poster, they are not considered MDs and will never garner the same level of respect MDs command.

Nor will we.

 

[Medin2017]

Nor will we.

Which is fine idk why people are so obsessed with respect from people that they don't really matter. We get a job that makes like 150+ to 300+ working 36 hrs a week why so desperate for respect?

 

[kidsaremypassion]

I think the biggest issue people have with "DNPs" is that their roles overlap so much with other supportive roles in healthcare, such as PA. However, the PA degree isn't a "doctorate" and they aren't actively trying to obtain "Dr." status. Many physicians argue that it becomes slightly confusing to the patient to have a nurse introducing themselves as "Dr. such and such", in the clinical setting, because HISTORICALLY the two most common fields in healthcare to have that "Dr." title were physicians and dentists.
This is because MDs and DDS's represent the highest level of clinical expertise in their respective fields. There is no "medical" equivalent to a fully fledged dentist; no one else does what we do clinically, hence why we have always had the title of "Dr.". Physicians have historically also had the title of "Dr." because they represent the highest level of knowledge in their fields of expertise. There is no comparing DDS to MD because MD's cannot and do not treat what we treat/or do what we do, and likewise..
Contrast this to PA's and nurses, who basically represent supportive health roles in medicine, not necessarily "leadership" roles. So when someone in an important, yet supportive role, now decides that it deserves to be called "Dr.", thats when the varied opinions come into play... It would almost be like hygienists wanting to be called "Dr." in a clinical setting....
Physical therapy-same idea, used to be a masters, now its DPT
Pharmacy-same idea, used to be B.S Pharm, now PharmD...

I'm apathetic about it all; but just providing a different perspective.

 

[Ollivander]

I'm not sure why people are comparing dentistry to PA (a better comparison would be dental therapist to PA). Why not compare being a doctor or a dentist? That's a more interesting comparison. I'd take being a dentist over PA any day of the week. Although, I can think of no better master's degree than PA in terms of return on investment.

I think that's even an unfair comparison because if we're talking about MD/DO versus going to an OOS or private dental school, then MD/DO wins by a landslide. If I wasn't so worried about my social life and experiences I can have in my late 20's and 30's that I just know won't be the same when I'm in my 40's and 50's I'd probably opt for medical school as opposed to PA.

Another thing is I don't mind the idea of saving up and going back to medical or dental school at a later age when I can pay a chunk if not all of the tuition upfront. After I've lived a bit. It would cut into the ROI sure, but I'd still get those years I'm desperately craving right now at a much earlier age.

 

[Medin2017]

I think that's even an unfair comparison because if we're talking about MD/DO versus going to an OOS or private dental school, then MD/DO wins by a landslide. If I wasn't so worried about my social life and experiences I can have in my late 20's and 30's that I just know won't be the same when I'm in my 40's and 50's I'd probably opt for medical school as opposed to PA.

Another thing is I don't mind the idea of saving up and going back to medical or dental school at a later age when I can pay a chunk if not all of the tuition upfront. After I've lived a bit. It would cut into the ROI sure, but I'd still get those years I'm desperately craving right now at a much earlier age.

Agree on your bolded condition, but there is no med specialty that can match gen dent or any of the dental specialties in terms of lifestyle. Pretty sure even derms do 40 hr weeks whereas the dent ones are usually 36 hours on average. And that's if you can beat out literally every type A kid who goes to med school (derm is the one of if not the hardest to match into for that lifestyle reason). Plus all the dental specialties rival or beat out the med ones if you go by hourly rate alone. If you go to a state school that's not stupidly expensive, I just don't see why you would want to go to med school (unless you only put work first above everything else in life or care about "prestige").

 

[Panis et Circenses]

I think that's even an unfair comparison because if we're talking about MD/DO versus going to an OOS or private dental school, then MD/DO wins by a landslide. If I wasn't so worried about my social life and experiences I can have in my late 20's and 30's that I just know won't be the same when I'm in my 40's and 50's I'd probably opt for medical school as opposed to PA.

Another thing is I don't mind the idea of saving up and going back to medical or dental school at a later age when I can pay a chunk if not all of the tuition upfront. After I've lived a bit. It would cut into the ROI sure, but I'd still get those years I'm desperately craving right now at a much earlier age.

Yeah I think Medin2017 basically said it. If you are going off money, then yes I would say MD on average will be much better. DO schools, not so much, because they are more expensive and a pretty large percentage of them end up in primary care. It basically comes to what you value. The dental/medical issue is basically you value lifestyle or money?

My point was that comparing a dental degree to PA is essentially comparing a doctorate degree to a master's degree.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I think the biggest issue people have with "DNPs" is that their roles overlap so much with other supportive roles in healthcare, such as PA. However, the PA degree isn't a "doctorate" and they aren't actively trying to obtain "Dr." status. Many physicians argue that it becomes slightly confusing to the patient to have a nurse introducing themselves as "Dr. such and such", in the clinical setting, because HISTORICALLY the two most common fields in healthcare to have that "Dr." title were physicians and dentists.
This is because MDs and DDS's represent the highest level of clinical expertise in their respective fields. There is no "medical" equivalent to a fully fledged dentist; no one else does what we do clinically, hence why we have always had the title of "Dr.". Physicians have historically also had the title of "Dr." because they represent the highest level of knowledge in their fields of expertise. There is no comparing DDS to MD because MD's cannot and do not treat what we treat/or do what we do, and likewise..
Contrast this to PA's and nurses, who basically represent supportive health roles in medicine, not necessarily "leadership" roles. So when someone in an important, yet supportive role, now decides that it deserves to be called "Dr.", thats when the varied opinions come into play... It would almost be like hygienists wanting to be called "Dr." in a clinical setting....
Physical therapy-same idea, used to be a masters, now its DPT
Pharmacy-same idea, used to be B.S Pharm, now PharmD...

I'm apathetic about it all; but just providing a different perspective.

To be fair, his first knock was against DPM's saying if they are considered doctors then DNP's are. I didn't understand knocking a DPM

 

[Medin2017]

Yeah I think Medin2017 basically said it. If you are going off money, then yes I would say MD on average will be much better. DO schools, not so much, because they are more expensive and a pretty large percentage of them end up in primary care. It basically comes to what you value. The dental/medical issue is basically you value lifestyle or money?

My point was that comparing a dental degree to PA is essentially comparing a doctorate degree to a master's degree.

From money vs lifestyle standpoint, med is valuing money with a few really hard to get into lifestyle specialties while dent is valuing lifestyle with a few really hard to get into $$$ specialties. But I can almost guarantee matching derm is harder than matching any dental specialties. As it stands now, med student matriculants on average are stronger than dental ones. There are parents out there trying to groom kids into doctors at a young age, but that just doesn't happen nearly as often in the dental world (again because of "muh prestige").

However one option that's overlooked is, even if going off money there's not much preventing people in the dental to work 40-50hrs instead of <40 if they wanna match the big paying med specialties. On the other hand, it seems medical specialties don't have as much freedom to adjust work hours (unless private practice- and if you think corporations are making private practice dent hard, try being a private practice doc).

With med there are more parts of the body to work on though. And I will say at least with med you can say you saved a life maybe or are super interested in learning everything about the body, but many people get jaded and their callings just become everyday jobs.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

From money vs lifestyle standpoint, med is valuing money with a few really hard to get into lifestyle specialties while dent is valuing lifestyle with a few really hard to get into $$$ specialties. But I can almost guarantee matching derm is harder than matching any dental specialties. As it stands now, med student matriculants on average are stronger than dental ones. There are parents out there trying to groom kids into doctors at a young age, but that just doesn't happen nearly as often in the dental world (again because of "muh prestige").

However one option that's overlooked is, even if going off money there's not much preventing people in the dental to work 40-50hrs instead of <40 if they wanna match the big paying med specialties. On the other hand, it seems medical specialties don't have as much freedom to adjust work hours (unless private practice- and if you think corporations are making private practice dent hard, try being a private practice doc).

With med there are more parts of the body to work on though. And I will say at least with med you can say you saved a life maybe or are super interested in learning everything about the body, but many people get jaded and their callings just become everyday jobs.

I'd agree with everything you said, except if you go to a MD school, some very high paying specialties really aren't that hard to get into and have match rates of 90-95%. If you go into a DO school, getting into high paying specialties is pretty hard.

 

[Medin2017]

I'd agree with everything you said, except if you go to a MD school, some very high paying specialties really aren't that hard to get into and have match rates of 90-95%. If you go into a DO school, getting into high paying specialties is pretty hard.

oh true but those usually do not have the best work life balance or else they would slowly become super hard to enter. Pretty much anytime something becomes a good deal, everyone floods into it or away from the bad stuff. Like ROADs being super competitive a while back but not as much now (R and A anyway) and emergency med rising in popularity. Also peds used to be super not popular in dentistry but now it's rising.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Memes aren't funny at NOVA? They are at UF.

Must be that swamp humor I hear so much about

 

[Ollivander]

My point was that comparing a dental degree to PA is essentially comparing a doctorate degree to a master's degree.

In today's economy I think being risk averse is just smarter in the short and long-term. In a vacuum and ideal situation (in-state dental school, preferably at the cost of the Texas schools) dental school would be vastly superior, but not every situation on this forum is ideal. In fact, most people on this forum are resorting to out-of-state and private acceptances. So when we're talking about that 400-500K figure, I think that amount of paralyzing debt over your head for the next 10-20 years in a lot of cases (not all) may not be the wisest decision to undertake given the current state of the economy and where I see it heading. So in that instance I think the two career paths are comparable. Again though, every situation is going to be different. I'm merely posting this since in fact every situation will be different.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

In today's economy I think being risk averse is just smarter in the short and long-term. In a vacuum and ideal situation (in-state dental school, preferably at the cost of the Texas schools) dental school would be vastly superior, but not every situation on this forum is ideal. In fact, most people on this forum are resorting to out-of-state and private acceptances. So when we're talking about that 400-500K figure, I think that amount of paralyzing debt over your head for the next 10-20 years in a lot of cases (not all) may not be the wisest decision to undertake given the current state of the economy and where I see it heading. So in that instance I think the two career paths are comparable. Again though, every situation is going to be different. I'm merely posting this since in fact every situation will be different.

Yeah I agree. Especially in areas that are heavily saturated with dentists. The market (as of now) is a lot better for PAs and you can probably get a job wherever you want to work in the PA field. There are no absolutes (too many variables unique to the individual) and everybody's situation is different.

 

[Zesta]

Dental school IS extremely expensive. You are smart to think about finances because people really don't understand what it means to be 500+k in debt. However, dentistry is a promising career that pays well. I'd say your best option is to look into scholarship, particularly the HPSP military scholarship and the NHSS scholarship and have Uncle Sam pay for everything. Either way, the choice is yours...good luck!

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Yea he's right, I heard schools are keep raising tuitions every year across the nation so it's better to plan ahead.

 

[Ollivander]

Yeah I agree. Especially in areas that are heavily saturated with dentists. The market (as of now) is a lot better for PAs and you can probably get a job wherever you want to work in the PA field. There are no absolutes (too many variables unique to the individual) and everybody's situation is different.

After this debate for the opposing side, odds are I'll end up working for a few years, save up, and go back to dental or medical school with no to little debt lol. So my argument is a bit in vain. However, that's just my risk averse nature.

Not to hijack the thread, but are you still on pace to take the MCAT later this month?

 

[WheatLom]

You went through the entire process...completed all the requirements....took the DAT.....job shadowed..... and now you are questioning the price tag? What where you thinking?

Wisdom, Master Yoda has

 

[DentistScientist]

Based on my observation, Handful of female PA students are doing PA for a stable job and they want to marry medical student boy friends. And they are very good looking too. Some were former cheer leaders in college or NFL team..

These medical student boy friends need to be top in the class and wanting to go into life style specialities to spend a lot of time with their future families or go into plastics to keep them looking young and beautiful.


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[deleted696582]

Based on my observation, Handful of female PA students are doing PA for a stable job and they want to marry medical student boy friends. And they are very good looking too. Some were former cheer leaders in college or NFL team..

These medical student boy friends need to be top in the class and wanting to go into life style specialities to spend a lot of time with their future families or go into plastics to keep them looking young and beautiful.


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We need data to peer review this claim.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

As a doctor of naturopathy I agree with your argument. My wife is a doctor in nursing and she agrees with you too. Doctors unite !

You're an idio* for comparing DPM to naturopathy or DNP.

Podiatry schools requires the mcat (granted the avg score is similar/lower to MD/DO applicants).
In addition to the 4 years in podiatry school, there is also a required 3-year surgical residency (some places its 4 years). There're also many fellowships available that one can complete, to practice in a specific field (like ID, Derm, Trauma, Wound Care, etc). Lastly, Podiatry school curriculum is similar to the first two years of Basic Sciences that of an MD/DO schools and many of the podiatry schools students take classes with MD/DO students for the first two years (same lectures, same exams, etc).

So a naturopath or an NP can get a doctorate degree but their curriculum and certifications are no way near the DPMs. And, they can call themselves whatever the hell they want.


To OP, if you got accepted to a dental school and now you're thinking about the loan and finances, then please, go to a PA school and give that seat to someone who actually wants to be a dentist. Otherwise, go be a dentist and you will make enough to pay back those 400K+ debt!

 

[8_man]

We need data to peer review this claim.

I agree that data is needed. Preferrably in the form of their instagram accounts

 

[kidsaremypassion]

Based on my observation, Handful of female PA students are doing PA for a stable job and they want to marry medical student boy friends. And they are very good looking too. Some were former cheer leaders in college or NFL team..

These medical student boy friends need to be top in the class and wanting to go into life style specialities to spend a lot of time with their future families or go into plastics to keep them looking young and beautiful.


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Maybe some of those women should haul a** and actually become the Doctors...not wait on a man to provide them with financial security....Just my opinion...

 

[DentistScientist]

Maybe some of those women should haul a** and actually become the Doctors...not wait on a man to provide them with financial security....Just my opinion...

These people also want to be mothers with traditional family values. As mothers and wives of doctors, they want to spend a lot of time for their kids and focus on their education.

Of course there are men with the exact same values and they marry female physicians for these goals but they are very few due to rampant sexism and the sexist gender roles in our society.


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[kidsaremypassion]

These people also want to be mothers with traditional family values. As mothers and wives of doctors, they want to spend a lot of time for their kids and focus on their education.

Of course there are men with the exact same values and they marry female physicians for these goals but they are very few due to rampant sexism and the sexist gender roles in our society.


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Why does being a "Dr." and being a "traditional woman with family values" have to be mutually exclusive concepts? Just because a woman chooses to run a practice, become a surgeon, etc, does not mean she doesn't value a home life. Maybe it means she holds herself to an incredibly high standard, and doesn't want to base her financial livelihood on what a man chooses to do or not do. If one wants to reap the benefits of a lucrative career, they should pursue it themselves, rather than hoping to "catch" a significant other to do it for them...There is too much risk involved in placing your financial security in the hands of another human being.

 

[DentistScientist]

Why does being a "Dr." and being a "traditional woman with family values" have to be mutually exclusive concepts? Just because a woman chooses to run a practice, become a surgeon, etc, does not mean she doesn't value a home life. Maybe it means she holds herself to an incredibly high standard, and doesn't want to base her financial livelihood on what a man chooses to do or not do. If one wants to reap the benefits of a lucrative career, they should pursue it themselves, rather than hoping to "catch" a significant other to do it for them...There is too much risk involved in placing your financial security in the hands of another human being.

Haha. My mother is a pharmacist and she talks just like you do. I agree with your statements. I cannot wait to meet my future female classmates!


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[Incis0r]

Haha. My mother is a pharmacist and she talks just like you do.

You're making @kidsaremypassion feel really old right now

Kidding aside, this is actually a really important and often overlooked idea the two of you are discussing - empower yourself to build your own future.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Maybe some of those women should haul a** and actually become the Doctors...not wait on a man to provide them with financial security....Just my opinion...

Why study and work hard when you can just marry a guy with $$$ and sit by the pool all day, all expenses paid?

Lather, rinse, repeat until you turn 35 (40 if you are lucky)!

 

[Incis0r]

Why study and work hard when you can just marry a guy with $$$ and sit by the pool all day, all expenses paid?

Lather, rinse, repeat until you turn 35 (40 if you are lucky)!

I know you're joking around, but I seriously think sitting by the pool all day would just be torture. It would be so boring and you'd just be wasting your life! No fulfillment whatsoever. Lots of unhappiness.

 

[kidsaremypassion]

Why study and work hard when you can just marry a guy with $$$ and sit by the pool all day, all expenses paid?

Lather, rinse, repeat until you turn 35 (40 if you are lucky)!

Let's hope that same man doesn't wake up one day and tell you he is leaving you for the hygienist/nurse who is "younger and hotter". Then you end up looking like the bitter ex-wife in court fighting for "half", and you're holding on/clawing on by the tips of your fingers because after all, you've got a lot more to lose than he does...Too much of a power play involved when a woman is depending on a man for the lifestyle she truly desires. He could leave at 50. What do you have?
My mother is a physician and has always stated that I should "have my own". I still subscribe to that mindset 100 %

 

[kidsaremypassion]

You're making @kidsaremypassion feel really old right now

Kidding aside, this is actually a really important and often overlooked idea the two of you are discussing - empower yourself to build your own future.

Lol, he hit a nerve....sorry. This isn't the 1950s! If you want the income of a DDS or MD, then become a DDS or MD. Period.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Let's hope that same man doesn't wake up one day and tell you he is leaving you for the hygienist/nurse who is "younger and hotter". Then you end up looking like the bitter ex-wife in court fighting for "half", and you're holding on/clawing on by the tips of your fingers because after all, you've got a lot more to lose than he does...Too much of a power play involved when a woman is depending on a man for the lifestyle she truly desires. He could leave at 50. What do you have?
My mother is a physician and has always stated that I should "have my own". I still subscribe to that mindset 100 %

Of course, but there is a lot of opportunity to be made if the bitter broke ex wife becomes with rich slimy dirtbag who never needs to work again. Even without the divorce, I am sure Musk's ex wife can easily find another sugar daddy. That lifestyle certainly doesn't require a college degree

Exhibit A, Elon Musk fell for it twice
Elon Musk -- Strikes 2nd Divorce Settlement

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

I know you're joking around, but I seriously think sitting by the pool all day would just be torture. It would be so boring and you'd just be wasting your life! No fulfillment whatsoever. Lots of unhappiness.

What do you have against pool service professionals?

 

[Incis0r]

@toothfairysupreme have you made a decision on PA vs. dental?

Personally, I believe that if you can develop a plan for tackling the cost of entry into the profession (such as taking the initiative to learn about business like @Alpha Centauri ), or some sort of scholarship or being aware of loan repayment programs/plans, then you can do really well in dental I think.

My mother is a physician and has always stated that I should "have my own". I still subscribe to that mindset 100 %

Your mother sounds like a very wise woman.

Lol, he hit a nerve....sorry. This isn't the 1950s! If you want the income of a DDS or MD, then become a DDS or MD. Period.

Agreed.

 

[Polkadotfan]

These people also want to be mothers with traditional family values. As mothers and wives of doctors, they want to spend a lot of time for their kids and focus on their education.

Of course there are men with the exact same values and they marry female physicians for these goals but they are very few due to rampant sexism and the sexist gender roles in our society.


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Full-time student and mom here who is going to go to dental school. I would never rely on my husband to be the sole earner in the family. I agree with the other poster in that who knows when a marriage will end? It's also not guaranteed that you get a settlement - or that they have to pay it in full in the required time.
I know we women can have it all - it's not easy and, yes, I miss some things, but my kid knows who her mom is and that mommy is going to "fix teeth" one day.

On PA vs Dentistry. I pick Dentist any day. For what most others said, but if I was looking at 400k in debt I'd go HPSP - even three years would save a lot! PA is not easy to get into - you'd have to probably take a while off to get experience and even then it's not guaranteed. I didn't want to work for someone else my entire life either.

Good luck OP!

 

[DentistScientist]

I see. I have high respect for independent women. My mother is in her mid 50s and she works as a full time pharmacist while finishing up her PharmD degree.

Some women whom i described in PA schools and women outside the health profession often asked me the exact same question. "How long is your training?" And the length of the training was one of factors to them as well. My friend met his ex-wife in school and he was doing general surgery residency and decided to add MBA, but his ex-wife filed divorce because of additional years and debt that he was adding.

I am curious about what you think. What if your significant other has to spend many years to accomplish his/her goal? Like 6 years more as a resident after you finish your specialty residency training? This would be the situation when your significant other may need to depend on you.


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[DentistScientist]

You have to overlook the hype and hysteria about the PA profession being a fantastic career. In short, it isn't. Tuition costs are as high as medical and dental school. You will go three years to PA school and four years to Dental or Medical school. However, the future of the PA profession is in peril. The people who hire PAs have a choice between a residency trained physician, a nurse practitioner or a physician assistant. The decision boils down to how much each costs, how much each generates in revenue and how much overhead each clinician adds to the practice. When there is a need for higher skilled clinicians and the hiring firm can afford them, doctors will always win out. When cost of overhead comes into play and the level of clinician skill is low, nurse practitioners will always win out. The reason nurse practitioners now are the dominant force in health care today is they are independent practitioners AT GRADUATION from their masters degree program in nursing. No period of oversight is ever required for nurse practitioners. The are "regulated" by a nursing board, not a medical board. Thus, PAs cannot get jobs in primary care any more because the doctor has to sign all of the charts and supervise the work of the PA. Ultimately, the physician is liable to any screwup by the PA. If the practice hires an nurse practitioners, the nurse practitioner never has to staff a patient, never has cosigned charts and if there is a screwup, the physician is never liable. If you were a physician owner or a hospital, which would you hire. The people who are "pumping the stock" of the PA profession are the NCCPA (Morton Rizzo makes 300K selling this fable of the PA), the AAPA (who makes money on all manner of CME) and the gross unregulated proliferation of PA programs. The latter is the most dangerous to the profession. Now, every liberal arts college that is struggling to meet financial goals can suddenly hang a sign saying "New PA Program". Tuition is 50K per year. They add 50 students and they just increased revenue by 7.5 Million dollars (three classes paying 2.5 Million yearly). These schools have no relationships with hospitals or community physicians to provide clinical training. Thus, they are falsifying the records of their students so they can maintain the scam. The PA programs in the United States make Trump University look like Harvard. So, the nurse practitioners are growing at a rate 50X greater than PAs. Nurse practitioners have independence in 44 states and gain 3 new states every year, nurse practitioners add no liability risk like PAs add, nurse practitioners are total independent so they don't add supervision time and expense and nurse practitioners never rebound so they can focus on their area of practice. I urge anyone considering the PA profession to try to recall the "Irrational exuberance" of the housing marketing bubble that came crashing down. There are a few thoroughly dishonest players in this business who are running a "ponzi scheme" on unsuspecting undergraduates to sell them a load of crap PA education. Even if one graduates and passes the board, the likelihood of finding work in five years or ten years is slim to none. The PA profession is now a greater risk/danger for new entrants than someone who goes to a foreign medical school and hopes to obtain residency in the match. You hear the occasional story of the "doctor" who didn't get residency and are now saddled with outrageous debt and no way to pay it off. That "occasional story" will become the norm for the PA profession. I have ceased to provide support the AAPA any longer as they have fully abandon the profession interests of the new PA graduate. I no longer precept students in the hospital wear I practice Hospital Medicine. The game is over for PAs. Nurse practitioners won. PAs have lost. Nobody, absolutely nobody, should ever consider entering PA school again.

Wow you are right. The battle between primary care physicians who think their jobs will be forever secure and the nurse practitioners armed with competitive price and hatred and jealousy toward physicians has begun.. until they all will be replaced by more advanced AIs than IBM Watson.



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