physics major with strong numbers but not entirely med focused

[uncleshoulders]

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WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?!?

Dramatics aside, I realized that idea of having a doctorate in physics is much more appealing than the reality of it. For every opening at a US college/university as an assistant professor in physics there are something like 300 applicants, most of whom are very well qualified, so well, **** that. I realized that I could have the title of "dr." and make a lot more money another way while having a stable job. Oh come on now, don't look at me like that. So I did the natural thing to do and am giving the med school thing a shot.

Stats:
*top 30 public university (Usnews aka the only definitive source to say your school is better than my school)
*strange erratic academic history major wise and gpa wise (I'm 25, probably older than most applicants). I started off at a different school for a few years and had little academic motivation and scraped by with a 3.3. I transferred to a school out of state, got SERIOUS, majored in physics for the street cred, finished all the med prereqs for reals, and ultimately graduated from my new university with a 3.9 in major, 3.8 overall.
*took a couple graduate physics classes
*10BS/14PS/12V, took it once. Not going to bother with it again unless boosting my verbal or bio score by a bit will really matter.
*did two REUS, one in high energy physics in Israel and one in astronomy in South Africa. I coauthored an honors thesis with ten other undergraduates on the applications of soft condensed matter physics to creating artificial organs that got published.
*shadowed a neurologist at a local hospital and volunteered there for a year
*peer tutor for physics department for two years
*magna cum laude, typical department and school awards for GPA and whatnot
*84 percentile on physics GRE (I doubt this matters, but meh)
*rec letters all from professors who supervised my research and know me pretty well so I assume they will give me good recommendations to get me into med school so they don't have to see me in the physics department anymore.
*VP of university's physics club, member of sigma xi and a few other research organizations, TA for a lower div physics class senior year .

I'm really new to this process so I was wondering which schools would be good reach schools, which I would have a reasonable chance at (if any), etc. I know my resume is not very impressive compared to you doctor folk considering the activities and focus in my app don't *show* a huge interest in well, being a doctor, but I thought I'd give it a chance and base the course of my life off of your opinions. Thanks in advance.

xoxo

 

[vayntraubinator]

wheres the leadership?

 

[uncleshoulders]

It's UP. Updated original post.

 

[vayntraubinator]

WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?!?

Dramatics aside, I realized that idea of having a doctorate in physics is much more appealing than the reality of it. For every opening at a US college/university as an assistant professor in physics there are something like 300 applicants, most of whom are very well qualified, so well, **** that. I realized that I could have the title of "dr." and make a lot more money another way while having a stable job. Oh come on now, don't look at me like that. So I did the natural thing to do and am giving the med school thing a shot.

Stats:
*top 30 public university (Usnews aka the only definitive source to say your school is better than my school)
*strange erratic academic history major wise and gpa wise (I'm 25, probably older than most applicants). I started off at a different school for a few years and had little academic motivation and scraped by with a 3.3. I transferred to a school out of state, got SERIOUS, majored in physics for the street cred, finished all the med prereqs for reals, and ultimately graduated from my new university with a 3.9 in major, 3.8 overall.
*took a couple graduate physics classes
*10BS/14PS/12V, took it once. Not going to bother with it again unless boosting my verbal or bio score by a bit will really matter.
*did two REUS, one in high energy physics in Israel and one in astronomy in South Africa. I coauthored an honors thesis with ten other undergraduates on the applications of soft condensed matter physics to creating artificial organs that got published.
*shadowed a neurologist at a local hospital and volunteered there for a year
*peer tutor for physics department for two years
*magna cum laude, typical department and school awards for GPA and whatnot
*84 percentile on physics GRE (I doubt this matters, but meh)
*rec letters all from professors who supervised my research and know me pretty well so I assume they will give me good recommendations to get me into med school so they don't have to see me in the physics department anymore.
*VP of university's physics club, member of sigma xi and a few other research organizations, TA for a lower div physics class senior year .

I'm really new to this process so I was wondering which schools would be good reach schools, which I would have a reasonable chance at (if any), etc. I know my resume is not very impressive compared to you doctor folk considering the activities and focus in my app don't *show* a huge interest in well, being a doctor, but I thought I'd give it a chance and base the course of my life off of your opinions. Thanks in advance.

xoxo

so how come you changed your stats?

 

[StoicJosher]

You have a very good application for medical school. Your MCAT is excellent (don't retake it), your GPA should break into the 3.7s (I'm assuming 2 years with a 3.3 and 4 years with the 3.8). When you apply to medical school, your GPA is calculated to include every college level class you have taken. So do the math about your GPA. Your ECs are excellent and the research will look good.

But like you mentioned, your motivation for going into medicine is lacking. Saying you are looking for a stable job and the title "dr" isn't going to get you admitted into medical school.

I am curious about how many hours you volunteered at the hospital and how many hours you shadowed the neurologist. Something close to 250 and 50 hrs, respectively, should be good enough if you can explain you motivation well through your personal statement. Either way, I recommend that you spend the next 2-4 months getting more clinical exposure, shadow doctors of a few more specialties (5-8 hrs of each specialty would be enough) and apply in June. If you can show a *good* interest in medicine, I think you have a very good shot at most schools.

For help selecting schools, I recommend checking this google docs spreadsheet out. Plug in your GPA and MCAT into the your stats page and see what schools you have a shot at (stats-wise) in the "Main Sheet". That should give you something to start off in your school selection.

 

[uncleshoulders]

^^I entered my score for the mcat wrong the first time, wanted to make sure it was correct.
For the PGRE, I remembered the score number (out of 990 which doesn't mean anything to people here) so I just guessed the percentile based on previous years but it changes quite a bit year to year and I went so I looked at the actual number.

^That's relieving to hear, thank you. Considering all of that my science gpa is a 3.6 and my cumulative is a 3.50, which is lower than I wanted, but the rising trend should have significant weight, not to mention I chose a stupidly difficult major. How much of an advantage or disadvantage will being a physics major confer upon me? I would think it would be a disadvantage overall because it sort of speaks to a lack of motivation to medicine, but I suppose they might want a more diverse academic body as well.

That's...more than I expected. I did about 130/30 hours respectively. So would you say at this point the best thing I could do for my application would be to shadow doctors to try to make my reasons for going into medicine have more weight?

 

[StoicJosher]

^^I entered my score for the mcat wrong the first time, wanted to make sure it was correct.
For the PGRE, I remembered the score number (out of 990 which doesn't mean anything to people here) so I just guessed the percentile based on previous years but it changes quite a bit year to year and I went so I looked at the actual number.

^That's relieving to hear, thank you. Considering all of that my science gpa is a 3.6 and my cumulative is a 3.50, which is lower than I wanted, but the rising trend should have significant weight, not to mention I chose a stupidly difficult major. How much of an advantage or disadvantage will being a physics major confer upon me? I would think it would be a disadvantage overall because it sort of speaks to a lack of motivation to medicine, but I suppose they might want a more diverse academic body as well.

That's...more than I expected. I did about 130/30 hours respectively. So would you say at this point the best thing I could do for my application would be to shadow doctors to try to make my reasons for going into medicine have more weight?

Being a biology major does not speak of a lot of motivation with medicine and being a physics major does not speak of a lack of motivation. Your undergrad major doesn't really matter as long as you do well on your pre-reqs for medical school. The upward trend in your GPA will help but choosing a difficult major will not. Think of it like this: You are supposed to take a major you are interested in and you are supposed to be responsible enough to know if you can handle it. Your major doesn't speak anything about your motivation for medicine. Don't worry about that.

That is one of the reasons taking a huge/difficult class load or graduating early doesn't help significantly. Nobody told you to do it and you are held to the same standard as everyone else.

Your GPA is lower than I expected but I still think you have a good shot at MD schools. FYI: The avg GPA for matriculants last year was ~3.6. When you apply, I suggest applying broadly. Look at the spreadsheet I posted and apply to schools where you have a good shot.

Your clinical experience and your shadowing are definitely lacking. The best thing you can do is dedicate a good deal of time to gaining clinical experience this semester (the more the better) and explaining your motivation eloquently when you apply (through your personal statement and other essays). You can continue volunteering at the same hospital but try to diversify with the shadowing (different specialties).

 

[Catalystik]

You might also consider adding some nonmedical community service for a cause you care about and continuing it through the application year for the sake of update letters and interview conversations.

Besides using the mentioned google.doc as a guide to appropriate schools, also check an MSAR to be sure you don't apply to schools where your cGPA is too close to their bottom tenth percentile for acceptees. And pay attention to the in-state acceptance rate, giving consideration to avoiding tose that accept > 85% in-state applicants. Note: you have to download the spreadsheet to put in your own stats.

 

[uncleshoulders]

Thank you both for your input and advice. I downloaded the sheet and based solely on statistics there are a number of schools I have a good chance at. I'm not terribly picky about where I go to medical school and given I decided fairly late to pursue this route I can't expect to get into a highly ranked school, which is fine.

I am a bit concerned about my overall gpa. Obviously there is no objective way to measure this, but how does a 3.3 to 3.8-3.9 rising gpa compare to say, a consistent 3.5-3.6? I figure given the mountains of admission data and profiles available there might be some indication.

 

[Catalystik]

In general, the most recent coursework is considered to be most indicative of one's academic ability. Some schools give less weight to freshman grades, some give more weight to the last few years, and a few throw out a bad semester all together. There are others that judge you by overall academic performance without any weighting. Unfortunately, it is rare for a school to advertise their "formula," thus the common wisdom to "apply broadly."

 

[uncleshoulders]

Thank you, I'll be sure to do so.

I have a somewhat unrelated question that might seem a bit unusual - *why* am I allowed to shadow doctors? Doesn't a patient's right to privacy (in cases where it applies of course) take precedence over the selfish desires of some pre-med?

 

[Catalystik]

Patients have the right to refuse your presence. But if they agree to have you in the room, you are allowed to shadow the physician. Many patients are altruistic enough to agree to having you there for the sake of your education. Some are not.

 

[glasshalfMD]

I am curious about how many hours you volunteered at the hospital and how many hours you shadowed the neurologist. Something close to 250 and 50 hrs, respectively, should be good enough if you can explain you motivation well through your personal statement.

Your clinical experience and your shadowing are definitely lacking. The best thing you can do is dedicate a good deal of time to gaining clinical experience this semester (the more the better) and explaining your motivation eloquently when you apply (through your personal statement and other essays). You can continue volunteering at the same hospital but try to diversify with the shadowing (different specialties).

I disagree with the weight this poster is giving to a "number of hours" needed on your application. There's no set rubric with regard to the number you need. The important thing is that you gained knowledge and insight from these experiences and you're able to articulate what you learned and how/why it has strengthened your desire to become a physician. Shadowing is good, because it gives you some insight into the life of a physician, and you should be able to gain a deeper understanding of the time commitment, work-life balance, etc. that comes with the territory (in addition to seeing what the doc does and thinking it's cool). This is obviously field-dependent... so I DO agree that you should try to spend time with another specialty or two, including primary care. That being said, I only had 30 or so hours of shadowing on my app with a neurologist and ENT, so there are 'exceptions to the rule' everywhere. In short, any number of hours is 'good enough' as long as you are able to show that you learned from them in a meaningful way.

As far as volunteering is concerned - to each his/her own. I had NO medical volunteering on my application, but a couple of leadership roles within the non-medical volunteering realm, as well as a good number of hours (but not 250). As long as you demonstrate a commitment to your community, because let's face it, physicians are a form of public servants, I think you're good. Just be able to, again, articulate what you learned from your experience and how it fits into the 'why do you want to attend medical school?' discussion.

IMO, you seem like a well-rounded, well-spoken, conscientious person. I see good things in your future. Plus I worked with a bunch of physics PhDs for a couple years, so I'm digging that. Good luck!

 

[StoicJosher]

I disagree with the weight this poster is giving to a "number of hours" needed on your application. There's no set rubric with regard to the number you need. The important thing is that you gained knowledge and insight from these experiences and you're able to articulate what you learned and how/why it has strengthened your desire to become a physician. Shadowing is good, because it gives you some insight into the life of a physician, and you should be able to gain a deeper understanding of the time commitment, work-life balance, etc. that comes with the territory (in addition to seeing what the doc does and thinking it's cool). This is obviously field-dependent... so I DO agree that you should try to spend time with another specialty or two, including primary care. That being said, I only had 30 or so hours of shadowing on my app with a neurologist and ENT, so there are 'exceptions to the rule' everywhere. In short, any number of hours is 'good enough' as long as you are able to show that you learned from them in a meaningful way.

As far as volunteering is concerned - to each his/her own. I had NO medical volunteering on my application, but a couple of leadership roles within the non-medical volunteering realm, as well as a good number of hours (but not 250). As long as you demonstrate a commitment to your community, because let's face it, physicians are a form of public servants, I think you're good. Just be able to, again, articulate what you learned from your experience and how it fits into the 'why do you want to attend medical school?' discussion.

IMO, you seem like a well-rounded, well-spoken, conscientious person. I see good things in your future. Plus I worked with a bunch of physics PhDs for a couple years, so I'm digging that. Good luck!

I agree that it is not about the hours but about what you got out of the experience. And I am glad you got into medical school with how many ever hours that you had. You were an exception to the rule and there are many more exceptions to the rule - but the rule is there for a reason. Medical school admissions is still largely a numbers game and my advice is based on an objective ideal case scenario. I didn't make the rules - I just play the game. 🙂

 

[glasshalfMD]

I agree that it is not about the hours but about what you got out of the experience. And I am glad you got into medical school with how many ever hours that you had. You were an exception to the rule and there are many more exceptions to the rule - but the rule is there for a reason. Medical school admissions is still largely a numbers game and my advice is based on an objective ideal case scenario. I didn't make the rules - I just play the game. 🙂

I gotcha, was just tossing my two cents in. Because there is no 'hard and fast' rule. And because part of 'playing the game' is being able to make what might be a trivial, short-lived experience into a mesmerizing soliloquy for that admission's board. 😉

Good luck, OP!

 

[uncleshoulders]

I disagree with the weight this poster is giving to a "number of hours" needed on your application. There's no set rubric with regard to the number you need. The important thing is that you gained knowledge and insight from these experiences and you're able to articulate what you learned and how/why it has strengthened your desire to become a physician. Shadowing is good, because it gives you some insight into the life of a physician, and you should be able to gain a deeper understanding of the time commitment, work-life balance, etc. that comes with the territory (in addition to seeing what the doc does and thinking it's cool). This is obviously field-dependent... so I DO agree that you should try to spend time with another specialty or two, including primary care. That being said, I only had 30 or so hours of shadowing on my app with a neurologist and ENT, so there are 'exceptions to the rule' everywhere. In short, any number of hours is 'good enough' as long as you are able to show that you learned from them in a meaningful way.

As far as volunteering is concerned - to each his/her own. I had NO medical volunteering on my application, but a couple of leadership roles within the non-medical volunteering realm, as well as a good number of hours (but not 250). As long as you demonstrate a commitment to your community, because let's face it, physicians are a form of public servants, I think you're good. Just be able to, again, articulate what you learned from your experience and how it fits into the 'why do you want to attend medical school?' discussion.

IMO, you seem like a well-rounded, well-spoken, conscientious person. I see good things in your future. Plus I worked with a bunch of physics PhDs for a couple years, so I'm digging that. Good luck!

I think having the sheer hours is a good safety net, particularly if you didn't gain much knowledge/experience during your hours. Based on the experiences of my peers also applying to MD schools "shadowing" can mean a lot of different things - for some it was little more than administrative work.

*blushes* Oh you shouldn't have! But thank you for your kind words nonetheless. I certainly hope you are correct. What sort of work did you do with the physicists if I may ask?

I've been pondering the direction I want to go in and I've been considering MD/PHD programs. I know they are more competitive but I have grown very attached to the research aspect of science. During my senior thesis over the course of 3 semesters I had a lot of exposure to how research was conducted in the biological/medical sciences (about half of the people in our group were in the life sciences). Would my research focus give me a decent shot at any of these programs?

 

[glasshalfMD]

*blushes* Oh you shouldn't have! But thank you for your kind words nonetheless. I certainly hope you are correct. What sort of work did you do with the physicists if I may ask?

I've been pondering the direction I want to go in and I've been considering MD/PHD programs. I know they are more competitive but I have grown very attached to the research aspect of science. During my senior thesis over the course of 3 semesters I had a lot of exposure to how research was conducted in the biological/medical sciences (about half of the people in our group were in the life sciences). Would my research focus give me a decent shot at any of these programs?

haha you are welcome! I worked in neuroimaging research for two years - lots of physicists in the MRI world! It was pretty fantastic, and they were really good people. Lots of nerd jokes though, that's for sure.

I think your two research experiences are a definite asset to an MD/PhD application. They are definitely more competitive than MD-only, but your MCAT score is solid and your experiences are unique and eyecatching. Do you have any other publications, abstracts, posters, presentations other than your senior thesis? I definitely think you would get some interviews - then you're on your own to sell yourself 😉