Pirates suck.

[Bertelman]

---

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It's been hard times and bad news cycles for our country the last several months. It's nice to see a story like this sometimes. Navy snipers, one shot each, killed the three remaining pirates holding an American captive outside Somali.

Those dudes are badass.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/world/africa/13pirates.html?th&emc=th

 

[fastosprintini]

while this outcome is encouraging we need to realize that nothing will change because people in an impowerished, lawless land see ships full of goods passing by . piracy is just a result of third world squalor . no i do not defend these people who are criminals , just trying to put things in perspective...
my$0.02 fasto

 

[Bertelman]

We're talking 3 snipers, dropped from the sky, boarding a U.S. destroyer, taking aim on three pirates.

Floating in a fancy life raft...

in the open water...

at night...

from 100 yards.

That's clutch.


If you can read that story without getting a chill down your spine, I don't know what else to say.

 

[Gimlet]

Definitely sounds like a movie waiting to be made. Awesome story, and I hope representative of future interactions with these scum.

 

[periopdoc]

We're talking 3 snipers, dropped from the sky, boarding a U.S. destroyer, taking aim on three pirates.

Floating in a fancy life raft...

in the open water...

at night...

from 100 yards.

That's clutch.


If you can read that story without getting a chill down your spine, I don't know what else to say.

Don't forget the life boat was under tow because of the ROUGH SEAS.

I can hit a jack rabbit quartering at a dead run at 50-60 yards but I can't imagine compensating for the movement of not only my ship but the movement of the other vessel in rough seas. Damn.

- pod

 

[McSnappy]

We're talking 3 snipers, dropped from the sky, boarding a U.S. destroyer, taking aim on three pirates.

Floating in a fancy life raft...

in the open water...

at night...

from 100 yards.

That's clutch.


If you can read that story without getting a chill down your spine, I don't know what else to say.

Another story said the seas weren't exactly smooth either.
So, they sit on a "fairly" stable platform looking out to a little bobber at dusk, with night vision and get 1 shot... 1 kill!
OooRAH!!

Pirates plan on killing Americans and French sailors they take.
Our retort: "U messin' width' da rong peeps, MFkrs!" Get some!! 😎

 

[darkmansaad]

and i assume all 3 were killed before they could grab their guns and kill their hostage (the captain). This is some Halo/Counterstrike type stuff man....whoooooo

 

[NavyFlightDoc]

and i assume all 3 were killed before they could grab their guns and kill their hostage (the captain). This is some Halo/Counterstrike type stuff man....whoooooo

you should probably read the story/link in the original post, but, yeah, since it was essentially a simultaneous 3 shots/3 kills situation, the captain wasn't harmed.

Go Navy

 

[OB1🤙]

Agreed. It's really frigging incredible.

I wonder if the Navy will be able to parlay this into improving its recruiting efforts.

Snipers. 👍

 

[bigdan]

...y'all beat me to starting this thread. I'm far from representative of some of the right-leaning, gun-toting ladies and gentleman that cohabitate this forum, but fu*k yeah. Something very appealing about blowing the dura off some d-bags that wanna screw with American ships. And 3 shots for 3 kills? Gimme a break. 'Nuff respect.

Thanks, SEALs.

dc

 

[dragonfly99]

I agree it was impressive.
Apparently the pirates are threatening retribution against the U.S. Personally I think it's stupid on their part...best not to mess with the US military...can you say, "overwhelming force" boys and girls? Very good!

The whole piracy situation is pretty sad, though. I wonder what will happen to the 16yo who surrendered? I wonder when/if Somalia will get a functioning government?

 

[asmallchild]

Apparently the pirates are threatening retribution against the U.S.

Bring it. Their "operation" was derailed with 3 shots. Plenty more where that came from

 

[coldweatherblue]

Apparently the pirates are threatening retribution against the U.S. Personally I think it's stupid on their part...best not to mess with the US military...can you say, "overwhelming force" boys and girls?

"From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli."

We remember the first time pirates overstepped their bounds with the U.S. :-D.

If the Somali pirates are smart and want to continue their recent success, they'd be well advised to never attack any U.S. vessel again. Honestly, they should lie low for a year or two at least. Before the recent attacks no one really cared about ransomed ships as long as the hostages were treated fairly (which they were by most accounts) but now it's all over the media and the American public is interested in the stories. I'm not sure if they understand that their operation will probably NEVER be the same after they've been thrust into the public eye. At the moment they are one or two attacks away from being forced into a direct conflict with the U.S. and other nation's militaries, which will not end well for the pirates.

 

[Impromptu]

1 hostage rescued. 230 more still held in Somalia. Millions already given to various pirates in ransom money (probably going to Al Qaeda). I wonder how this escalation will play out. Will the pirates be deterred? Probably for a while. Will we ever get the other hostages back? I am doubtful for a good majority of them.

 

[Bertelman]

It's not in their interest to kill hostages. They are simply in it for the money, and dead hostages gets you zilch. Compared to the long history of pirating, the Somalis apparently treat their hostages quite well. I think only a few have died in recent years, including one this past week.

I do agree that what was a slowly simmering situation has now escalated to a rapid boil. Most Americans were hardly aware at all, and most other countries probably weren't too impressed, other than handing out 2 mil bounties every few months. That's all changed now.

The aggression from America has forced the pirates to ante up. Sadly, there will be more deaths on both sides, pirates and crew, before things get better. The big question is how the shipping companies respond, as they have generally avoided manning their ships with arms so as to avoid escalation. We were quite fortunate this played out as it did, particularly since this happened to be a rather small crew of pirates to overtake a ship. Perhaps most pirates were afraid of attacking U.S. vessels, for now obvious reasons.

 

[Trisomy13]

I just assumed this was a thread about my favorite Major League Baseball team.

Go Pirates! Lets go Bucs!


Yeah, we suck. What else is new?

 

[cpants]

I hope the pirates now realize that the only ransom payments they will be getting from the US will come in the form of two bucks worth of lead delivered at 2800 ft/second. So nice to see people actually not getting away with messing with us for once.

 

[jetproppilot]

If you can read that story without getting a chill down your spine, I don't know what else to say.

"ATTENTION ON DECK!"

Jet salutes the brave, meticulously trained, marvelous, unbelievable, FU KKIN BADA SS NAVY SEALS.

Bertel, you're RIGHT ON, Dude.

The chill.

The spine chill.

I felt it.

Takes an extraordinary dude to be on a pitching deck of a ship, probably raining, nightfall, sniper scope honed in on the pirate, waiting for DA SHOT.

Uhhhhh....wait....THERE WERE THREE of those special forces dudes, on the pitching deck of the ship, sniper scope honed, waiting for a shot. They had to do it TOGETHER.

HUH?

Three military snipers were able to succomb three pirates, in SYNCHRONY?

TOGETHER?

ALL AT ONCE?

WOW.

Thats just....uhhhh....INCREDIBLE.

Thats what the military DOES, though.

And I'm speaking from personal experience.

My twenty year old son, yeah the dude that only a cuppla years ago was working in an oil-change place, smoking weed every day, realized his life was spiraling downward in front of his eyes decided to join the military. ARMY, to be specific.

He's an MP in the Army now.

And, because of the training he's received, he's achieved SNIPER.😱

HUH?

My son can pick off a target easily at five hundred yards?

HArd for me to believe.

Until he stopped by the other day.

Heres my son....kind of a wandering soul previously...

now at my crib...finds my Glock 9mm...and pops out the clip, makes the bullets come outta the clip in like three seconds...then disassembles MY NINE in what looked like just another THREE SECONDS.😱

He continues, tells me how I havent cared for DA PIECE properly, tells me what to do after he does it, then LIKKITY SPLIT he loads all the bullets back in and reassembles the 9mm.😱

WHOAH.

The Army has transformed my previously-dope-smoking-son into a LEAN, MEAN, FIGHTING MACHI.......UHHHHHH......SNIPER.

Evan deploys to Mousel, Iraq this week.

I LOVE YOU, EVAN.

And I love the military.😍

"ATTENTION ON DECK!"

 

[DO4lifer]

all this attention to these gangbangers overseas...how bout the ones right here at home who not only kidnap, but they kill innocent people, kids even, with a simple drive by.

gangs are a big problem in our impoverished areas (including Somalia), but i want people to be aware that more crime goes down on our own streets that is given credit for on tv. today, a kid was shot in L.A. in broad daylight in front of his school!!!...who is making a fuss about it? nobody...👎 now THATS homegrown terrorism. Read

 

[BitingPlates]

"From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli."

We remember the first time pirates overstepped their bounds with the U.S. :-D.

If the Somali pirates are smart and want to continue their recent success, they'd be well advised to never attack any U.S. vessel again. Honestly, they should lie low for a year or two at least. Before the recent attacks no one really cared about ransomed ships as long as the hostages were treated fairly (which they were by most accounts) but now it's all over the media and the American public is interested in the stories. I'm not sure if they understand that their operation will probably NEVER be the same after they've been thrust into the public eye. At the moment they are one or two attacks away from being forced into a direct conflict with the U.S. and other nation's militaries, which will not end well for the pirates.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collections/jefferson_papers/mtjprece.html

 

[radslooking]

they probably had some stabilizing gyroscopes that kept their lines on target despite the pitching of the ships, but even with this it takes exceptional skill. Unbelievable training and execution. Hoo hah.

 

[periopdoc]

Evan deploys to Mousel, Iraq this week.

I LOVE YOU, EVAN.

And I love the military.😍

"ATTENTION ON DECK!"[/QUOTE]



Our thoughts go with Evan.

- pod

 

[OB1🤙]

Our thoughts go with Evan.

👍

 

[maceo]

pirates will never get anywhere in the nl east

 

[jetproppilot]

Our thoughts go with Evan.

- pod

Thank you, Sir.

Hoping his training allows him to avoid the well expected

LAND MINES and

RPGs.

 

[Trisomy13]

pirates will never get anywhere in the nl east

i'll always have my childhood memories of the 1979 season...

 

[geogil]

Thank you, Sir.

Hoping his training allows him to avoid the well expected

LAND MINES and

RPGs.

My thoughts are going out for you jet. I just got together with a buddy who did 3 tours and spent 18 months in the hospital s/p an ied. Lucky for him he still has all his marbles and all his limbs. Those guys have been going out there for 6 years now, we're pretty darn lucky to have people like your son to put their lives on the line for us. Best of luck to your son.

 

[Saladin MD]

we're pretty darn lucky to have people like your son to put their lives on the line for us.

How did his/her son put his life on the line for us?

"I ain't got no quarrel with the Viet Cong." --heavyweight champion of the world, Muhammad Ali

 

[Bertelman]

How did his/her son put his life on the line for us? Was the amazingly strong Iraqi army about to occupy America?

"I ain't got no quarrel with the Viet Cong." --heavyweight champion of the world, Muhammad Ali

To think that the only threat to America involves direct invasion by a nation's sponsored military force is foolish in this age.

Our military engage enemies around the world. They do so in the interests of our country and the betterment of the world, like it or not. Our troops die. In simple terms, that is putting your life on the line for one's country.

 

[Saladin MD]

To think that the only threat to America involves direct invasion by a nation's sponsored military force is foolish in this age.

Our military engage enemies around the world. They do so in the interests of our country and the betterment of the world, like it or not. Our troops die. In simple terms, that is putting your life on the line for one's country.

What is foolish is to think that we are safer when America illegally invades foreign countries. In simple terms, the anger/hatred created by such military occupations is exactly what puts American lives in danger. The invasion of Iraq caused Al-Qaeda's ranks to swell.

And to say that America invaded Iraq and other places for the "betterment of the world" is quite a reach. It is just like when the Soviet Union invaded countries, claiming it was for the "betterment of the world."

Yes, they "die for their country", just like Soviet troops died for their country. But let's not claim that they died "for us" or to make us safer or to defend us. That's just too Orwellian. It's pure offense, not defense. Even the name chosen for the conquest of Iraq, i.e. "Operation Iraqi Freedom", is so unbelievably Orwellian. It is a military occupation, not liberation or freedom. Let's call a spade a spade.

You say that "direct invasion" is not the only threat to America. Can you tell me: did Iraq ever attack America "indirectly" prior to the US led invasion in the 90's and the crippling sanctions placed on the Iraqi people thereafter?

 

[Gimlet]

Way to come in and choad this thread up, dude. 👎

 

[Gern Blansten]

What is foolish is to think that we are safer when America illegally invades foreign countries. In simple terms, the anger/hatred created by such military occupations is exactly what puts American lives in danger. The invasion of Iraq caused Al-Qaeda's ranks to swell.

And to say that America invaded Iraq and other places for the "betterment of the world" is quite a reach. It is just like when the Soviet Union invaded countries, claiming it was for the "betterment of the world."

Yes, they "die for their country", just like Soviet troops died for their country. But let's not claim that they died "for us" or making us safer or defending us. That's just too Orwellian. It's pure offense, not defense.

You say that "direct invasion" is not the only threat to America. Can you tell me: did Iraq ever attack America "indirectly" prior to the US led invasion in the 90's and the crippling sanctions placed on the Iraqi people thereafter?

Our soldiers fight for your liberty. You should thank the military. The fact that you have made these comments in a thread where a prominent member of the forum has stated that his son is being deployed is very telling about the type of person you are. Are you the type who would spit on a returning soldier? I bet it would not be a stretch for you to consider it.

 

[Saladin MD]

Way to come in and choad this thread up, dude. 👎

This thread has nothing to do with anesthesiology: it was political in nature, so I think my posts were fair game.

 

[Saladin MD]

Our soldiers fight for your liberty. You should thank the military.

And I am asking you: how do they fight for my liberty? Who in Iraq was taking away my liberty that they are fighting there?

The fact that you have made these comments in a thread where a prominent member of the forum has stated that his son is being deployed is very telling about the type of person you are.

I am a lover of peace. I am a strong believer in La Convivencia, i.e. mutual understanding, peace, and harmony.

As for a mother whose son is being deployed, then I say: why are our sons being sent to die in Iraq?

Are you the type who would spit on a returning soldier?

Are you more worried about someone spitting on an American soldier than an American soldier killing Iraqis? In any case, to answer your question: no, I would not spit on anyone; rather, I use my words like they use precision guided bombs.

 

[coprolalia]

And I am asking you: how do they fight for my liberty? Who in Iraq was taking away my liberty that they are fighting there?

I am a lover of peace. I am a strong believer in La Convivencia, i.e. mutual understanding, peace, and harmony.

As for a mother whose son is being deployed, then I say: why are our sons being sent to die in Iraq?

🙄

-copro

 

[Saladin MD]

My intention was not to bruise feelings. I apologize if that was the case. To the mother whose son is being deployed: I apologize if my post was seen as out of line. I merely think that our country is sending our sons to die for no reason...for worse than no reason. I've talked to quite a few veterans who fought in various wars, and many of them agreed that their country sent them off to die on a lie and/or for no reason. This isn't about being anti-soldier. I think that we should most definitely be grateful to soldiers who defend our borders in case of attack. I just think part of being truly pro-soldier is to worry about their lives and their souls. Sending them to Iraq is putting their lives in danger for no reason, and it also places their souls in danger, as God does not love aggressors. So how truly "pro-soldier" are those who needlessly send them off to their deaths?

 

[Saladin MD]

The fact that you have made these comments in a thread where a prominent member of the forum has stated that his son is being deployed is very telling about the type of person you are.

Peace be unto you.

I thought about what you said, and perhaps you are right that this was not the proper place to air my grievances against the US military. I apologize. A time and place for everything, and you are right that this was not the proper time. It's just that those words "dying for us" really get to me, since it makes no sense. But nonetheless, you are right that I should not have brought it up here, since the bond between mother and son runs deep and should be respected.

 

[coprolalia]

My intention was not to bruise feelings. I apologize if that was the case. To the mother whose son is being deployed: I apologize if my post was seen as out of line. I merely think that our country is sending our sons to die for no reason...for worse than no reason. I've talked to quite a few veterans who fought in various wars, and many of them agreed that their country sent them off to die on a lie and/or for no reason. This isn't about being anti-soldier. I think that we should most definitely be grateful to soldiers who defend our borders in case of attack. I just think part of being truly pro-soldier is to worry about their lives and their souls. Sending them to Iraq is putting their lives in danger for no reason, and it also places their souls in danger, as God does not love aggressors. So how truly "pro-soldier" are those who needlessly send them off to their deaths?

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 2:190

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 2:216

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 3:118,119

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 4:103

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 5:51

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 8:36

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 9:12

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 9:27

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 9:37

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 9:73

"Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."
-Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57

"Slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day…. Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah!"
-The Holy Koran, Sura 9:5,29,41

(Just thought you might like to know what "God" really expects of Muslims.)

-copro

 

[Gern Blansten]

Peace be unto you.

I thought about what you said, and perhaps you are right that this was not the proper place to air my grievances against the US military. I apologize. A time and place for everything, and you are right that this was not the proper time. It's just that those words "dying for us" really get to me, since it makes no sense. But nonetheless, you are right that I should not have brought it up here, since the bond between mother and son runs deep and should be respected.

Saladin, I see that you are an IMG, so now I understand your dislike for the US military, since it is popular in the world now to hate the U.S. However, why would you even consider coming to the U.S. to live and train in a medical career? Is it because of the freedom that we have? Freedom does not come free.

 

[Saladin MD]

Peace be unto you.

A bunch of misquotes, deliberate mistranslations, and quotes out of context.

According to the Quran, war is only allowed in self-defense; aggression is not permitted. The Quran says:

"You may [only] fight in the cause of God against those who attack you, but do not aggress. God does not love the aggressors. You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than killing. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers. If they refrain, then God is Forgiver, Most Merciful. You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship God freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors." (Quran, 2:190-193)

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, then you also incline towards peace! And trust in God, for He is One that hears and knows all things." (Quran, 8:61)

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." (Quran 2:193)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error." (Quran, 2:256)

"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject." (Quran, 18:29)"

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed--all who are on earth! Will you then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe [i.e. when God Himself did not do that]?" (Quran, 10:99)
​

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 2:190

A horrible (and deliberate) mistranslation. The actual quote is:

"You may [only] fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors. You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than killing. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers. If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors." (Quran, 2:190-193)
​

Notice the word "infidelity" does not appear anywhere in the verse. That was added by you; or rather, the anti-Islamic website you quoted from.

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 2:216

Yes, this is in regards to defending one's land when under attack by the enemy, in which case a Muslim is obligated to defend the people. In fact, according to Islamic Law, a Muslim male must defend Non-Muslim citizens with his life, if they are under attack.

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 4:103

Imaginary.

Verse 4:103 reads:

"When you have performed the act of worship, remember God: standing, sitting and reclining. And when you are in safety, observe proper worship. Worship at fixed times has been enjoined on the believers." (Quran, 4:103)
​

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 8:36

Also imaginary.

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 9:12

A magnificent half-quote on your part. The entire verse reads:

"But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and assail you for your Faith,- fight you the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained." (Quran, 9:27)
​

The oath and covenant referenced here is the peace treaty. The Quran enjoins Muslims to make peace treaties and covenants with others (which shows that the religion does not at all advocate war). The above verse is only about thoes who violate their covenants and attack us by going against their word.

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 9:27

Imaginary. Verse 9:27 in its entirety reads:

"Again will God, after this, turn in mercy to whom He will: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (Quran, 9:27)
​

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 9:37

Imaginary. Verse 9:37 says in its entirety:

"Verily the transposing of a prohibited month is an addition to Unbelief: the Unbelievers are led to wrong thereby: for they make it lawful one year, and forbidden another year, in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by God and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their course seems pleasing to them. But God guides not those who reject Faith." (Quran, 9:37)
​

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home."
-The Holy Koran, Surah 9:73

Purposeful mistranslation again. The verse reads:

"O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed." (Quran, 9:73)
​

This verse does not say to wage war, only to strive against, just like I am striving against you and your lies right now. As for the above quote, it is in a larger context, and here is only referring to a specific group who went against thier word, as evidenced by the very next verse that comes after it. The hypocrites here refers to Muslims themselves.

(Just thought you might like to know what "God" really expects of Muslims.)

Anyone can do what you just did. Should I post a huge list of Bible quotes like you did and then say that Christianity advocates killing and hatred? I certainly don't advocate such a close-minded approach, but let me just do it so you gain some perspective.

The below is just a copy/paste from anti-Christian websites:

Here is what the Bible says about people who believe in a god other than the Christian one:

Exodus 22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."​

Instruction to murder any of your relatives or friends if they spread other religious faiths:

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die..."​

Let's talk about religious tolerance. Let's see what the Bible says on how to treat a city of people who follow another religion...in fact, it says to massacre the entire city:

Deuteronomy 13:12-15 "If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."​

If you worship other than the Judeo-Christian God, you are to be killed:

Deuteronomy 17:2-5 "If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath ...gone and served other gods, and worshiped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."​

The Bible instructs to murder the leaders of other religions:

1 King 18:19; 18:40 "Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the groves four hundred, which eat at Jezebel's table....And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there."​

The Bible encourages to destroy the religious temples of other faiths:

2 Kings 11:18: "And all the people of the land went into the house of Baal, and brake it down; his altars and his images brake they in pieces thoroughly and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars...​

More murder of whoever does not conform to the faith:

2 Chronicles 15:10-15 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. [The LORD] was found of them: and the LORD gave them rest round about."​

Here is another list provided from an anti-Christian website, which "explains" how the Bible says to kill all those who do not worship the Judeo-Christian god:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn't receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don't believe in him. Jude 5

Don't associate with non-Christians. Don't receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Whoever denies "that Jesus is the Christ" is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are "of God;" everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is "a deceiver and an anti-Christ" 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn't share Paul's beliefs has "an evil heart." Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of "the synagogue of Satan." Revelations 2:9, 3:9

A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33
​

Oh and there's much more. Do you want any more? It's very easy to use your tactics, and just go to random anti-this or anti-that websites.

As a side-note, I don't encourage this sort of un-intellectual discourse. I'm just using your medicine on you. I think that the Christian religion is one of love, and I do not think it is proper to use such "lists" of random verses to prove anything. My only intention here was to show you some perspective, and to prove that you can bastardize any religion.

Again, I promote mutual understanding and harmony between Christians and Muslims, i.e. La Convivencia. I disagree with such lists above. I didn't type it out at all...I just copied/pasted from some random anti-Christian website just like Copro did from some anti-Muslim website. My point was to show how stupid this tactic is.

 

[Saladin MD]

Saladin, I see that you are an IMG, so now I understand your dislike for the US military, since it is popular in the world now to hate the U.S. However, why would you even consider coming to the U.S. to live and train in a medical career? Is it because of the freedom that we have? Freedom does not come free.

I was born and raised in America. I do not really dislike the military per se. I dislike the foreign policy that dictates said military.

As for it being popular in the world to hate the US, hmmm, I wonder why that is. [/sarcasm] However, I do not hate America. There are many great things about America. I am simply opposed to the foreign policy.

As for your silly mantra that "freedom does not come free", can you please tell me how invading Iraq was the price for my or your freedom? Were you and I not free prior to the illegal invasion of Iraq? Was our freedom threatened? If so, then how?

If not, then why the meaningless rhetoric?

 

[Bertelman]

What is foolish is to think that we are safer when America illegally invades foreign countries. In simple terms, the anger/hatred created by such military occupations is exactly what puts American lives in danger. The invasion of Iraq caused Al-Qaeda's ranks to swell.

And to say that America invaded Iraq and other places for the "betterment of the world" is quite a reach. It is just like when the Soviet Union invaded countries, claiming it was for the "betterment of the world."

Yes, they "die for their country", just like Soviet troops died for their country. But let's not claim that they died "for us" or to make us safer or to defend us. That's just too Orwellian. It's pure offense, not defense. Even the name chosen for the conquest of Iraq, i.e. "Operation Iraqi Freedom", is so unbelievably Orwellian. It is a military occupation, not liberation or freedom. Let's call a spade a spade.

You say that "direct invasion" is not the only threat to America. Can you tell me: did Iraq ever attack America "indirectly" prior to the US led invasion in the 90's and the crippling sanctions placed on the Iraqi people thereafter?

You're touching on many points that my post neither alleged nor suggested. My quote concerning the betterment of the world was qualified by the statment like it or not. It's clear you don't, as countless tens of millions around the world also do not.

That's all fine and good, but the original topic included a defense of a U.S citizen against pirates not affiliated with a country's military force, trying to extract money by kidnapping. That offense was rebuffed by a unique show of deliberate and well-controlled force by U.S. troops. It was a situation that could have easily escalated, but showcased the restraint and precision our military can possess. If I had a son or daughter serving for our military forces, I would be quite proud of their involvement. As it stands, my father-in-law spent decades working for the Navy, and episodes like this give me a window into the world he once lived.

You've hijacked this thread to include foreign policy, religion, and disrespect of a parent's pride in their child's endeavor. Your best course is to let this one go. Feel free to start your own thread regarding your opinions, as there is no shortage of opinions and arguments on the internet. Just don't f-up this discussion, please.

I thought about what you said, and perhaps you are right that this was not the proper place to air my grievances against the US military. I apologize. A time and place for everything, and you are right that this was not the proper time. It's just that those words "dying for us" really get to me, since it makes no sense. But nonetheless, you are right that I should not have brought it up here, since the bond between mother and son runs deep and should be respected.

 

[Saladin MD]

My quote concerning the betterment of the world was qualified by the statment like it or not. It's clear you don't, as countless tens of millions around the world also do not.

Haha. That's the thing: tens of millions of people don't agree with your claim that America invaded Iraq for the "betterment of the world." It has nothing to do with me liking it or not; I disagree with your claim entirely.

The original topic included a defense of distinctly American, albeit corporate, interests against pirates tryaign to extract money by kidnapping. That was rebuffed by a unique show of deliberate and well-controlled force by U.S. troops. It was a situation that could have easily escalated.

My post had nothing to do with Somalia. It had to do with someone saying that a soldier is "dying for us" in Iraq.

 

[NavyFlightDoc]

Saladin, find a few Iraqi-born and educated physicians and lawyers, who are now living in this country. Ask them why they left Iraq. For many of them, it was to avoid being murdered by the previous regime.

I got back from Iraq in the past 6 months, and at least for the area I was in, the vast majority of the local populace was glad that we were there.

I don't really want to get much further in depth than that, so maybe I shouldn't have commented. But please, find out why almost all the professional men and women in Iraq left the country in/around the 1980's. Maybe you have some med school attendings from Iraq, as I did, ask them.

 

[Saladin MD]

Saladin, find a few Iraqi-born and educated physicians and lawyers, who are now living in this country. Ask them why they left Iraq. For many of them, it was to avoid being murdered by the previous regime.

I got back from Iraq in the past 6 months, and at least for the area I was in, the vast majority of the local populace was glad that we were there.

I don't really want to get much further in depth than that, so maybe I shouldn't have commented. But please, find out why almost all the professional men and women in Iraq left the country in/around the 1980's. Maybe you have some med school attendings from Iraq, as I did, ask them.

Two points:

(1) The underlined part is ludicrous. Keep convincing yourself of that. The vast majority of Iraqis hate your colonial presence. But I guess you can convince yourself of this just like the British said this when they occupied India (and Iraq, for that matter).

(2) You asked me a question: let me ask you a better question: who put this regime in power in the first place? Which country led a coup to overthrow the popularly elected government of Iraq in order to put Saddam's party into power? I know that most American soldiers don't know any history, but let's see if you know. (I'm sure you are googling ferociously now.)

 

[Bertelman]

Haha. That's the thing: tens of millions of people don't agree with your claim that America invaded Iraq for the "betterment of the world." It has nothing to do with me liking it or not; I disagree with your claim entirely. .

Not sure what's so funny here. I didn't claim anything at all, other than the basis of U.S. force is often judged to be for the betterment of the world. I clearly stated the point is arguable, as it has to be. Even if 100% of the world believes a certain tyrant should be eliminated, I am certain that tyrant would disagree. Hence, although the force is purported as for the betterment of the world, any reasonable person would understand that is not absolute.

My post had nothing to do with Somalia. It had to do with someone saying that a soldier is "dying for us" in Iraq.

EXACTLY!!!

Read my edit above.

p.s. It's insulting when you speak to me as though I don't know what my own words mean.

 

[Saladin MD]

Not sure what's so funny here. I didn't claim anything at all, other than the basis of U.S. force is often judged to be for the betterment of the world. I clearly stated the point is arguable, as it has to be. Even if 100% of the world believes a certain tyrant should be eliminated, I am certain that tyrant would disagree. Hence, although the force is purported as for the betterment of the world, any reasonable person would understand that is not absolute.

Yes ,but the tyrant knows deep down inside that his intentions are less than honest.

 

[Saladin MD]

For the record, I don't consider myself anti-American. I am a supporter of Dr. Ron Paul's foreign policy. I believe it is the most American of foreign policies, as envisioned by our Founding Fathers...not the current war-mongering interventionist policy.

 

[Saladin MD]

p.s. It's insulting when you speak to me as though I don't know what my own words mean.

Bro, perhaps *I* misunderstood you. No offense intended.

 

[Bertelman]

Bro, perhaps *I* misunderstood you. No offense intended.

No offense taken.

You've had a rough start to the anesthesia forums. We've got no shortage of loud opinions and offensive topics here, but it's usually nice to establish some credibility before you jump into the fray. Otherwise, the dogs are unleashed.