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This may helpHi. Thanks for the responses thus far. I will definetly relax and have during the summer. I am already relaxing and really, really enjoying my last semester in college! I just wanted to create a solid plan so I am on the right path. I think I have a lot of potential, and in college I kind of fell off my plan and didn't know the proper time to do research, take the MCAT, ask for letters. Hence, I think I kind of underachieved in terms of the med schools I could have gone to. Hence, I was looking for solid advice.
Another side question, for residency how do they view publications? For instance, I think publications specifically about plastic surgeries for a plastic residency would hold considerable weight. How would they value publications that were not surgical (for instance biochemical research papers or global epidemiological papers published in undergrad?). Would those still be considered significant and of value?
In addition, when applying for surgical residencies, what kind of letters are suggested? For instance, for med school my advisor told me 2 science professors, 2 humanities professors, 1 doctor I shadowed/volunteer organization, and then Research PI. For Residency is there some kind of similar format, with number of letters and the typical people the letters should come from?
Also, for the top surgical specialties (plastics, ortho, CT) what kind of Step1 and Step2 scores are needed for an ORM? Also, how are the clinical vs. pre-clinical grades compared? For instance, are clinical grades considered more heavily than pre-clinical grades?
And, did any of you do research while taking classes during the school year? I did so in undergrad, but found it difficult to manage my schedule. However, my hypothesis is to gain considerable progression in surgical research, is for it to be a continuous process. How much time per week can be given during the year to such an activity?
I will be an MS1 in Medical School this Fall. I would like to gain some advice from med students who are matching into top surgical residency programs on things I could do before medical school to get ahead.
I will not get burned out, and I just want to know what I can do. For instance, if I am interested in plastic surgery should I start research at a faculty lab at the med school I will enter in the Fall? Should I get started on Step 1 and Step 2 studying, with reading books and taking a course. Should I pursue global health opportunities for interesting epidemiological research and possibly publications?
I want to maximize what I can do once I graduate from college and before I start medical school. Basically I would like to know what are the most important factors for matching into a top plastic surgery residency program, and what can I do right now to create a solid plan to make that happen.
Please no trolls. This is a legitimate question and I would like legitimate advice from successful medical students/residents for an aspiring top surgeon. Thank you.
Hi. Thanks for the responses thus far. I will definetly relax and have during the summer. I am already relaxing and really, really enjoying my last semester in college! I just wanted to create a solid plan so I am on the right path. I think I have a lot of potential, and in college I kind of fell off my plan and didn't know the proper time to do research, take the MCAT, ask for letters. Hence, I think I kind of underachieved in terms of the med schools I could have gone to. Hence, I was looking for solid advice.
Another side question, for residency how do they view publications? For instance, I think publications specifically about plastic surgeries for a plastic residency would hold considerable weight. How would they value publications that were not surgical (for instance biochemical research papers or global epidemiological papers published in undergrad?). Would those still be considered significant and of value?
In addition, when applying for surgical residencies, what kind of letters are suggested? For instance, for med school my advisor told me 2 science professors, 2 humanities professors, 1 doctor I shadowed/volunteer organization, and then Research PI. For Residency is there some kind of similar format, with number of letters and the typical people the letters should come from?
Also, for the top surgical specialties (plastics, ortho, CT) what kind of Step1 and Step2 scores are needed for an ORM? Also, how are the clinical vs. pre-clinical grades compared? For instance, are clinical grades considered more heavily than pre-clinical grades?
And, did any of you do research while taking classes during the school year? I did so in undergrad, but found it difficult to manage my schedule. However, my hypothesis is to gain considerable progression in surgical research, is for it to be a continuous process. How much time per week can be given during the year to such an activity?
@dnnash thank you for the link. Plastic surgery looks extremely competitive. Seems like the average Step 1 and Step 2 scores are 260s. Additionally, seems like average number of poster/abstracts/publications is around 13! That's ridiculous! Where do med students have the time to do that much research?
@witzelsucht thanks for the idea about pathoma videos. I had never heard about this. I will look into it, but I don't think I would purchase a subscription until I really sit down to study for Steps during med school.
@Psai. Thanks for the extra motivation.
@Jepstein. thanks for your long and thoughtful answer. I will definetly not go too hard this summer, but I just wanted some structure to make sure I keep forward in a positive direction. I distinctly remember how I did absolutely no work during the summer between freshman and sophomore year of college. It was so hard for me to get back in the rhythm of studying during sophomore year. Hence, I don't want to make the same mistake where in med school the stakes will be much higher. Hence, I think I know what works best for me in terms of relaxing, drinking, having fun, and sticking to a plan.
If anyone else has some solid advice/info like @JJMrK, @dnnash, or @witxelsucht, I would really look forward to your comments!
Much appreciated. 🙂
@dnnash thank you for the link. Plastic surgery looks extremely competitive. Seems like the average Step 1 and Step 2 scores are 260s. Additionally, seems like average number of poster/abstracts/publications is around 13! That's ridiculous! Where do med students have the time to do that much research?
@witzelsucht thanks for the idea about pathoma videos. I had never heard about this. I will look into it, but I don't think I would purchase a subscription until I really sit down to study for Steps during med school.
@Psai. Thanks for the extra motivation.
@Jepstein. thanks for your long and thoughtful answer. I will definetly not go too hard this summer, but I just wanted some structure to make sure I keep forward in a positive direction. I distinctly remember how I did absolutely no work during the summer between freshman and sophomore year of college. It was so hard for me to get back in the rhythm of studying during sophomore year. Hence, I don't want to make the same mistake where in med school the stakes will be much higher. Hence, I think I know what works best for me in terms of relaxing, drinking, having fun, and sticking to a plan.
If anyone else has some solid advice/info like @JJMrK, @dnnash, or @witxelsucht, I would really look forward to your comments!
Much appreciated. 🙂
Not even close. If you can't read a chart correctly you will never be future top doctor.
@dnnash thank you for the link. Plastic surgery looks extremely competitive. Seems like the average Step 1 and Step 2 scores are 260s. Additionally, seems like average number of poster/abstracts/publications is around 13! That's ridiculous! Where do med students have the time to do that much research?
Quick point on this as I only recently found out about it myself, the number of publications on ERAS is highly inflated as presentations and abstracts both count as "publications". By that metric, people are able to get multiple "publications" out of a single research experience.
I tend to differ with the SDN consensus that the summer before med school should be spent playing video games and wanking. The most productive thing that you can do at this point though is to come up with a plan for how to succeed in the first two years of med school (and step one). The growing pains of M1 have a lot to do with the sheer volume of work and the organizational skills required to succeed. Most people will at least initially feel like they're constantly treading water while getting slammed with waves from all directions; truth be told, it's the students who overcome this most quickly who end up succeeding both academically and personally. Here are some questions that you should start considering before you begin in the fall:
It sounds as though you ****ed up a bit in undergrad. I was in a similar situation and am now at a less-than-desirable school, but if nothing else I'm striving harder than ever to succeed. One thing that I often ask myself is "X years from now when I'm done with all of this, what advice would I give to someone whose just starting out?" It may sound silly, but it helps keep my situation in perspective and forces me to evaluate whether or not I'm being lazy/unproductive.
- What are your goals in terms of class rank, step score, research, community engagement, and overall foundational knowledge base? What is most important to you?
- What resources will you need to achieve your goals? Keep in mind that class performance does not necessarily equate to step performance which does not necessarily equate to clinical knowledge base.
- Figure out how to get involved in research early on and what you can do to maximize your time investment. Networking.
- What are the highly rated resources for the preclinical years? How do you study best (books, lectures, notes, covering several sources in succession)?
- Are you going to use any step one study materials (Firecracker, anki, studyblue, Kaplan...) longitudinally throughout the first two years?
- What can you do to stay organized? It's very likely that you will have more time intensive obligations in medical school than you've ever had before in your life. At this point in my career I don't think that I'd be able to function without google calendar or gmail.
- Do a bit of tech research and consider updating your laptop, tablet, phone, or even getting a fitbit (has a handy alarm function that wakes up in your lightest sleep phase and lets you feel refreshed after a 5 hour night).
I couldn't agree more with this post.
I don't understand how the majority of SDN vehemently advocates doing jack **** before M1 and claims that doing anything med school related is a waste of time, while at the same time comparing medical school to "drinking out of a fire hydrant" in terms of learning the material.
It is absolutely correct that medical school is like drinking out of a fire hose, meaning that time is of utmost importance. The summer before first year, for most, is 2+ months of completely free time - a hell of a lot of free time. In fact some people spend 2 months dedicated to USMLE step 1 study, to give you an idea of how much time 2 months is and what you can do in that time.
Even if you dedicate 2 hours per day to medical school, you'll be much better off. This can be anything ranging from brushing up on some annoying basic sciences (ex - buy first aid and master all the biochemistry and cellular and molecular biology subjects in there), researching Step I resources an dstudy tactics to make a plan, look up medical school resources and study methods, make plans to stay organized, and even start learning the curriculum. For example, if i were to start medical school again, I would read Guyton's physiology (it's like reading a story) cover-to-cover during the summer, memorize the anatomy dissector structures, and maybe read the histology textbook once. Anybody who tells you that pre-studying/pre-preparing is useless because you will lack the proper direction/focus doesnt know what he's talking about. You are a medical student and if you think that you need a professor telling you what you need to know with everything else being a waste, then i dont know what to tell you. You cant go wrong with reading medical textbooks - they have the information you need to know, are very thorough, and present the information in arguably the most efficient way.
That said it obviously isnt impossible to become a plastic surgeon without pre-studying. I'd wager that the vast majority of plastic surgeons dont study before first year. The fact of the matter, though, is that pre-preparing can only help you and make your life easier during what is a very crucial and challenging time in which you have to learn tons and tons of info especially if youre thinking about a competitive specialty like plastic surgery. You can never know too much in medical school or else there would be people getting 290s+ on the Step I.
Before you start medical school, you have no idea what the pace will be like. Your two hours a day for two months will probably cover about a week's work of material in medical school.you definitely won't accomplish a tenth as much as a second year in their dedicated periods time even if you did 16 hours a day. The whole point of first year is to learn how to study. Pre studying is a complete waste of time. Go do something fun
Also, I can tell that you don't know what the hell you're talking about because of your lack of respect for medical school and step 1. It makes me wonder if you are actually a medical student although I suppose you could still be a naive first year. I've never heard of a 290 and I doubt that it exists. I thought about prestudying too when I was accepted and asked my medical school friends about it. They said no. I'm now a third year that did very well on step 1 without doing any of that crap and now I'm telling you no
This is your advice. Memorize attachments? Loldo yourself a favour and try to memorize all of the structures (and any relevant facts including innervation, attachments, etc) listed in whatever anatomy dissector your school uses. use an anatomy atlas to study these.
this will help you immensely in first year lecture-based coursework, OMM, and anatomy lab. it will also take a lot of pressure off of you during first year
Everyone plans on doing well on the boards. Most people end up somewhere around the average.
This is your advice. Memorize attachments? Lol
Do you even know what militant means? Maybe you should have spent your pre-m1 summer pre-studying a dictionary. Except that pre-studying is a complete waste of time. The end
Okay. thanks everyone!
if anyone else has something constructive to add, please do so. I would like to officially ask psia and chasm-e-baddoor to stop arguing on this forum. I appreciate both of your advice and your difference of opinions. I think overall this thread was pretty successful; however, I wanted to avoid arguments like these.
Thanks again everyone! 🙂
Lol I was wondering how people got all those "publications" on CTO 2014 graphs. Now it makes perfect sense.Quick point on this as I only recently found out about it myself, the number of publications on ERAS is highly inflated as presentations and abstracts both count as "publications". By that metric, people are able to get multiple "publications" out of a single research experience.
I am not arguing as much as I am explaining why his reasoning is flawed and making sure that these militant anti-pre-study users don't brainwash users such as yourself into thinking that there is nothing you can do to get ahead of the game (which is what this topic is about).
Again, I'm not saying that pre-preparation is necessary. But to claim that it is complete waste of time is just foolish.
Well the graphs have the y-axis as "Mean Number of Abstracts, Presentations, and Publications," so it was pretty clear they were combined in aggregate in CTO 2014.Lol I was wondering how people got all those "publications" on CTO 2014 graphs. Now it makes perfect sense.
- Do a bit of tech research and consider updating your laptop, tablet, phone, or even getting a fitbit (has a handy alarm function that wakes up in your lightest sleep phase and lets you feel refreshed after a 5 hour night)
I could see some use in prestudying in terms of making connections if u used something like Wikipedia but you'd have to do that for everything. It would take way too long. I would recommend that @futuretopdoctor instead learn good organizational skills, get PDFs of all the review books, learn stress-relaxation techniques, different study methods and techniques, and get involved in plastics research if his true goal is to go into plastics.Yeah, studying before med school is a waste of time.
Go ahead and study insertions and origins... THAT's the way to ace anatomy.
At my med school, I don't think a single exam question actually asked for an insertion or origin.
OOPS!
Studying FA prior to med school would be perhaps even more asinine.
Nothing is actually complex that I've seen -- nothing where you need 3+ passes and months to understand and grasp the concepts.
What you need to do multiple passes for is to pack all these rather simple factoids into your brain and connect the dots between them. Problem is there is a crapton of these simple factoids.
Problem with pre-studying is that, unless you are a memory savant, our brains aren't designed to longitudinally retain these simple factoids outside the medical environment. In other words, "if you don't use it, you lose it."
So, again, go ahead and memorize the intricacies of those lysosomal storage diseases as a pre-med.
And then enjoy relearning them 6 months later because you forgot them.
OOPS!
For Step 1, I would understand. For research probably way to intricate when for your final publication you'll send the data to a biostatistician.What about learning biostats? I'm not sure where I'd even start but this seems like a useful skill for doing research in med school. Especially if, as someone said above, most students analyze already existing databases, charts, etc.
What do you guys think?
For Step 1, I would understand. For research probably way to intricate when for your final publication you'll send the data to a biostatistician.
For Step 1, I would understand. For research probably way to intricate when for your final publication you'll send the data to a biostatistician.
There are ways to get ahead. you could start with 3 books that are pretty important during medical school and you will probably refer to them from time to time during your entire medical career. they are:
-Robbins Pathologic Basis of Disease
-Guyton Medical Physiology
-Harrison's Internal Medicine
Do 2 chapters per day and you'll be ahead of a lot of people. a lot of people.
Yeah, studying before med school is a waste of time.
Go ahead and study insertions and origins... THAT's the way to ace anatomy.
At my med school, I don't think a single exam question actually asked for an insertion or origin.
OOPS!
Studying FA prior to med school would be perhaps even more asinine.
Nothing is actually complex that I've seen -- nothing where you need 3+ passes and months to understand and grasp the concepts.
What you need to do multiple passes for is to pack all these rather simple factoids into your brain and connect the dots between them. Problem is there is a crapton of these simple factoids.
Problem with pre-studying is that, unless you are a memory savant, our brains aren't designed to longitudinally retain these simple factoids outside the medical environment. In other words, "if you don't use it, you lose it."
So, again, go ahead and memorize the intricacies of those lysosomal storage diseases as a pre-med.
And then enjoy relearning them 6 months later because you forgot them.
OOPS!
There are ways to get ahead. you could start with 3 books that are pretty important during medical school and you will probably refer to them from time to time during your entire medical career. they are:
-Robbins Pathologic Basis of Disease
-Guyton Medical Physiology
-Harrison's Internal Medicine
Do 2 chapters per day and you'll be ahead of a lot of people. a lot of people.
You'll be ahead in terms of processing the information beforehand.You won't even be 'ahead' of people.. because you'll all be learning the material again at the same pace.
If you're able to simply read through a chapter and remember it to any extent months later.. after hours and hours of other studying between.. then you don't need to have pre-studied in the first place.