Planning ahead to get into a competative residency. Advice needed!

[Checcles]

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[Winged Scapula]

Moving back to Pre-Allo. The general residency forum is for topics of interest to residents and former residents. Residents interested in answering your question can do so in the Pre-Allo forum.

The answer to your question is: USMLE scores >>>>> name brand of school (especially when comparing UTH and TT. If it were Harvard vs TT, then it would be USMLE scores >>>> name brand.)

Oh and Step 1 >> Step 2. So I wouldn't put too much stock into "an amazing curriculum" turning you into an amazing clinician. That may be the case, and even with the increasing clinical aspect of Step 1, its still basic science. I bought into that **** from a PBL program and had to study my arse off my Step 1. I may be a better clinician but it didn't help me match, that's for sure.

 

[45408]

which one's cheaper?

 

[gravitywave]

it likely won't matter which of those two you go to. the only way it could work against you would be if you went to TT and program directors hadn't had TT grads in their program yet, and were afraid to take a chance. but even that effect is minor to nil.

don't go looking for the average Step scores, either. total waste of time and bandwidth.

 

[DrYoda]

which one's cheaper?

+100000. Wait for financial aid packages

Also, step I scores are very student dependent (a boat load of self study, with students all over the country using the same review materials), don't pick a school based on what you think it will do for your Step I score.

 

[searun]

Your Step One score is pretty much up to you. I studied 12 hours per day for 5 straight weeks, and nobody from my med school showed up or offered me any encouragement. Or even gave me any suggestions on how to excel on the test. I was on my own. I did pretty good, thank god. But I give myself the credit, not my school. I did all the work. Your Step One score is not school dependant, not at all. It is on you.

Oh, and getting a competitive residency, that is on you too. So are you up to it, Big Boy.

 

[slowbutsteady]

Step I.

 

[LetsGo352]

What exactly do competitive residencies look for? Obviously they focus a lot on Step 1 and 2 but what else? How much are grades, research, and extracurricular activities (like mission trips) worth?

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

What exactly do competitive residencies look for? Obviously they focus a lot on Step 1 and 2 but what else? How much are grades, research, and extracurricular activities (like mission trips) worth?

Not step 2. See above or anywhere else. Step 1 is the big boy. In order of importance, from most to least, this is generally how it works. It can vary a little depending on specialty, but Step 1 is always #1. For the rest, it's a little more subjective but generally:

1. Step 1.
2. Clinical grades.
3. Research publications in that specific specialty
4. Class Rank/AOA
5. Letters of Rec.
6. Research in general
7. Pre-clinical grades (relates to #4)
8. Doing an away rotation and leaving a positive impression
9. Save the world type stuff (not important at all in most competitive specialties, probably quite important for non-competitive specialties at competitive academic places. ie - family practice at Harvard, etc.)

In general Step 2 can help you a little if your Step 1 is borderline, but it won't hurt you unless it's significantly off from your Step 1, and isn't even considered in a lot of cases. There are exceptions. The impression you give on aways/interverviews, and LOR's, have totally variable effects and could become #1 by killing your chances, or could help a lot if the factors above are less than competitive. In other words, after you interview it's basically:

1. Step 1 and your personality
2. Rank and research
3. Everything else

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

The official Zoom-Zoom guide to selecting your future medical school:

OP, one big factor to consider will apply if you know what specific specialty you want to go into.... I know nothing about those two schools, but you can limit yourself significantly if a given school does not have a neurosurgery department, for example, if you know you want to do neurosurgery. Getting the needed exposure and access to research and letters of rec from well known doctors in a field becomes exceedingly difficult if you don't have a department. Likewise, if the X department at one school is 2X as big as the others, it's 2X easier to do research and get LOR's. If you don't know yet what you want to do, do some research and see where you're options wouldn't be limited. Just google "X school of medicine X department" and you'll find out right away how many professors are there and how much research is being done. That's basically what you'll be doing as a med student when you're trying to find research at your school, anyway.

The other thing to consider is actual Step 1 performance. This often correlates to how much time off they give you in second year to study. Find out. I lucked out at my school. I'd be seriously pissed if I only had a few weeks like some places. Try to find their match lists to see what fields the students actually go in to. Also, in general, the amount of PBL/small group type learning you do will be time spent not learning what you need to learn to rock the boards. It might make you a super-doctor but it doesn't help you learn textbook pathology and pharm. Likewise, minimal lecture hours and a curriculum with minimal "doctoring" type classes has been big for me personally. A lot of students love this stuff and are obsessed with hitting the ground running 3rd year as experts in medical history taking, and I agree that it's a pleasant distraction at times, but truthfully if I can't become a good clinician from 2 years of rotations, or during my career as an actual doctor from actual "doctoring", I would have made a crappy clinician anyway. Furthermore, you'll have the same amount of clinical preparation as the other students at your school no matter where you go, so it's not as if "doctoring" will help your clinical grades. In other words, "doctoring" classes are a huge waste of time during the first 2 years, when every hour spent studying the basics will help you later in your career and can't be made up for. But that's my humble opinion. Most students disagree. Most competitive residency applicants do not.

The third factor, and probably the most important, is to go where your gut tells you you'd be happiest. Being happy is VERY important. It makes the learning fun. It gives you energy. It lets you be you, and makes you likely to chose a field that's right for you. Plus, being unhappy for 4 years with the amount of work you are going to do would really, really suck. Which school has the students you click with and perceive to be "normal"? There's a lot of variability out there. Does school X have a competitive atmosphere? P/F curriculums can be money in terms of giving you time to focus on what counts...like research and boards..while reducing competition significantly. I see no downsides with mine aside from the fact that I'd have a lot more honors on my transcript. Things like podcasting the lectures, a P/F curriculum, and minimal class time have made me a happy boy over the last 2 yrs. I feel strongly that the lack of a podcasting service, given the affordability, utility, and accessibility of modern technology, is strongly indicative of a school with a malignant atmosphere that does not have it's students best interests in mind.

The best way to find out more about these schools is to do a "re-visit" to these schools if they offer it and to stay with a/some students so you can pick their brain, or you can contact the admissions office for some student contacts at the very least. They will give you students you can contact because they will do anything possible to increase their matriculation rate. Now that you're in you are in a rare position...for once you have the power...you can ask whatever you want and you'll often get honest answers..although don't expect to hear bad things from contacts given to you by admissions comittees 🙂 . But, I was told by some students at some schools to straight-up not go there. Good luck and big congrats on the acceptances.

 

[LetsGo352]

Zoom-Zoom, those are very helpful posts, thanks.

 

[km11]

Not step 2. See above or anywhere else. Step 1 is the big boy. In order of importance, from most to least, this is generally how it works. It can vary a little depending on specialty, but Step 1 is always #1. For the rest, it's a little more subjective but generally:

1. Step 1.
2. Clinical grades.
3. Research publications in that specific specialty
4. Class Rank/AOA
5. Letters of Rec.
6. Research in general
7. Pre-clinical grades (relates to #4)
8. Doing an away rotation and leaving a positive impression
9. Save the world type stuff (not important at all in most competitive specialties, probably quite important for non-competitive specialties at competitive academic places. ie - family practice at Harvard, etc.)

In general Step 2 can help you a little if your Step 1 is borderline, but it won't hurt you unless it's significantly off from your Step 1, and isn't even considered in a lot of cases. There are exceptions. The impression you give on aways/interverviews, and LOR's, have totally variable effects and could become #1 by killing your chances, or could help a lot if the factors above are less than competitive. In other words, after you interview it's basically:

1. Step 1 and your personality
2. Rank and research
3. Everything else

This certainly isnt true for internal medicine, where your dean's letter and clinical grades are weighed above all else. Step 1 takes a much lower seat.

 

[45408]

This certainly isnt true for internal medicine, where your dean's letter and clinical grades are weighed above all else. Step 1 takes a much lower seat.

He asked about competitive residencies. Internal medicine is not competitive at all as a specialty.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

He asked about competitive residencies. Internal medicine is not competitive at all as a specialty.

If you're interested in cards or GI, it's moreso since you need to go to a quality program with good fellowship connections.

 

[gravitywave]

If you're interested in cards or GI, it's moreso since you need to go to a quality program with good fellowship connections.

and... if you want in to one of these feeder programs, Step scores become correspondingly more important. QED.

 

[45408]

If you're interested in cards or GI, it's moreso since you need to go to a quality program with good fellowship connections.

and... if you want in to one of these feeder programs, Step scores become correspondingly more important. QED.

Now you've selected competitive fellowships after a non-competitive residency, and competitive programs within a non-competitive residency. They're not the same, and what I said still stands.

 

[a winner is you]

Not step 2. See above or anywhere else. Step 1 is the big boy. In order of importance, from most to least, this is generally how it works. It can vary a little depending on specialty, but Step 1 is always #1. For the rest, it's a little more subjective but generally:

1. Step 1.
2. Clinical grades.
3. Research publications in that specific specialty
4. Class Rank/AOA
5. Letters of Rec.
6. Research in general
7. Pre-clinical grades (relates to #4)
8. Doing an away rotation and leaving a positive impression
9. Save the world type stuff (not important at all in most competitive specialties, probably quite important for non-competitive specialties at competitive academic places. ie - family practice at Harvard, etc.)

Not true anymore regarding step 2, step 2 has been becoming more and more important recently. Still not as important as step 1 but it's right behind step 1/clerkship grades now.

http://journals.lww.com/academicmed..._Criteria_for_Residency__Results_of_a.24.aspx

 

[NickNaylor]