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Playing D1, any leniency?
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D!=division one
d1 sports quite literally own your life, i know people who did d3 for a while and it owned their life, sports in college are very different from sports in high school, you are expected to practice non-stop, thats why many d1 athletes do easier majors such as communication or the likes.
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Plenty of people have gotten 4.0 and played D1 sports. Also, D1 is only more competitive than DII or DIII. The time constraints are still there. The only things that they may be lenient on is all the typical pre-med EC's, but I would argue that doing research, volunteering, running an organization and training for marathons or triathlons is just as time consuming as playing sports.
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Haven't you seen the commercial? The med school scouts are gonna be showing up to your practices to recruit you. 🙂 In all seriousness this would be a major plus on your activities. The other pluses include the academic resources you'll have access to as an athlete. I know three guys that played D1 Basketball or Football that are now in med school, but they would have been competitive applicants without the varsity letters.
A couple of things that will be more important for you as an athlete:
-picking your professors: your time will be more limited than your non-athlete counterparts so make sure you don't get those notoriously difficult profs or the ones who might have something against athletes.
-compartmentalizing: one of my buddies said he had to separate basketball from academics and basically devote himself to school, practice, school, school and games. Although he took specific breaks to have some down time he said he mostly lived school and basketball without much else(including not always hanging out with the team outside of practice and games).
Just some thoughts...
A couple of things that will be more important for you as an athlete:
-picking your professors: your time will be more limited than your non-athlete counterparts so make sure you don't get those notoriously difficult profs or the ones who might have something against athletes.
-compartmentalizing: one of my buddies said he had to separate basketball from academics and basically devote himself to school, practice, school, school and games. Although he took specific breaks to have some down time he said he mostly lived school and basketball without much else(including not always hanging out with the team outside of practice and games).
Just some thoughts...
I think that they are still going to expect your numbers to be on par with the rest of the applicant pool...I would suspect that playing would just be considered your major EC. It'll be good material to talk about in interviews, but you'll still have to have competitive numbers to get those interviews. Good luck, you have a lot of work cut out for you!
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Well, yes and no. It certainly isn't ignored. However, you won't benefit as much as you could have by taking half of the time you spend in athletics and investing it in traditional pre-med activities. I suspect this is at least partly to do with the fact that adcoms have little understading of how much time is required.
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Yes they will consider it and its a major plus. Try to join one or two BS things outside of D1 sports to really impress them.
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I'm sure it would be a plus, if (and this is a pretty sizable if) you maintain your grades. You definitely won't be granted a free pass because you played D1. I think you'd sort of be in the same league as people working in college. It helps if you learn to balance your academics and other priorities, but make sure you do well in your classes.
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But D1 schools have tutors and academic support centers, etc, etc that most D2 and D3 athletes don't get.
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closer23..
i played 4 years of d1 soccer...the school and athletics department will own your life, its very difficult to balance academics and athletics because depending on your sport you will miss tons of class and the number of hours that you put into athletics per week is usually more than 40 hours (more than a full time job) plus you are a full time student.
on the other hand i would not trade the chance or my experience playing d1 for the world and so if i were you i wouldnt give up the sport for the sake of medical school
and while you still need the same prereqs, high grades, and high mcat score to get the interview..all of my interviewers hav only wanted to talk about playing d1 sports and are also impressed with accolades from that..they especially liked me being a 2 year captain. so they may be more forgiving because i hav limited clinic experience just because of time constraints.
what sport and if you hav other questions feel free to PM me.
i played 4 years of d1 soccer...the school and athletics department will own your life, its very difficult to balance academics and athletics because depending on your sport you will miss tons of class and the number of hours that you put into athletics per week is usually more than 40 hours (more than a full time job) plus you are a full time student.
on the other hand i would not trade the chance or my experience playing d1 for the world and so if i were you i wouldnt give up the sport for the sake of medical school
and while you still need the same prereqs, high grades, and high mcat score to get the interview..all of my interviewers hav only wanted to talk about playing d1 sports and are also impressed with accolades from that..they especially liked me being a 2 year captain. so they may be more forgiving because i hav limited clinic experience just because of time constraints.
what sport and if you hav other questions feel free to PM me.
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D1 athletics will be viewed as a nice EC. If you think otherwise, I'm worried you're blowing sunshine up your a$$.
As a nice EC, it will likely be a talking point at interviews (much like the Peace Corps would for a PCV, etc.). Interviewers tend to focus on things on your app that make you stand out rather than the things that everyone has on their resume.
That said, you will get no slack on anything else for the fact that you participated in D1 athletics. You need to keep your grades and MCAT on the same level as everyone else and have the same involvement in other ECs required of applicants.
D1 makes a nice talking point, but you can't really waltz in and say, "I had no time to volunteer for humanitarian causes, gain clinical experiences, or learn what a doctor does for a living, because I was busy with [insert sport here]." Try that and expect a fatality.
So if you can juggle it, go for it. But weigh the importance of becoming a doctor with becoming an athelete. If you can have it all, more power to you, but don't make any sacrificies on your application expecting athletics (or any EC) to make up for it.
As a nice EC, it will likely be a talking point at interviews (much like the Peace Corps would for a PCV, etc.). Interviewers tend to focus on things on your app that make you stand out rather than the things that everyone has on their resume.
That said, you will get no slack on anything else for the fact that you participated in D1 athletics. You need to keep your grades and MCAT on the same level as everyone else and have the same involvement in other ECs required of applicants.
D1 makes a nice talking point, but you can't really waltz in and say, "I had no time to volunteer for humanitarian causes, gain clinical experiences, or learn what a doctor does for a living, because I was busy with [insert sport here]." Try that and expect a fatality.
So if you can juggle it, go for it. But weigh the importance of becoming a doctor with becoming an athelete. If you can have it all, more power to you, but don't make any sacrificies on your application expecting athletics (or any EC) to make up for it.
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this is completely wrong.
First, DII and DIII does not give out money, so there is nowhere near the mandatory time committment as someone who is getting a free education for their athletic services.
Second, try missing 25 days of class in a semester because b/c you have 55+ game schedule (i played D1 baseball). some profs dont care if you miss the quiz, and you take a zero. 35-40 hrs a week of physical exhaustion is NOT the same thing as volunteering and research.
trust me man, adcoms dont just want the biggest science nerds in the country at their schools. i wouldnt call it leniency, but make sure your mcat leaves no doubt about your gpa.
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you'll be a lock at columbia, from what i hear.
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youd be surprised how many admissions ppl at top tier schools consider D1 athletes to be best prepared for the rigors of medical school.
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It is a nice EC but you should find some time to do something clinical and something altruistic ("service" or volunteerism) because every applicant needs those things - if even for a short time period (i.e. 10-12 weeks). Sometimes sports teams will do motivational speeches at grammar schools or after-school programs or in pediatric hospitals -- that would count for "service". For clinical, at the very least do some shadowing. You still need to talk about your view of medicine as a career and how you have tested your interest in medicine. Being a patient, or caring for relatives, is not enough to test an interest in medicine.
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No, they certainly don't. They like folks with military service, Peace Corps, ex-teachers, fullbrights, and college atheletes. But none of these folks get any slack because of this.
D1 athletics makes it tough to balance with the rest of your premed requirements. If you can't hack it, don't do it. If you can, it's admirable. Much like the person who holds down a full-time job to attend school.
No adcom is going to look at a half a$$ed app and say, "Well, he was playing ____." Half of medical school is about time management and juggling priorities. Demonstrating you can't do that as an undergrad will not be a ringing endorsement for your app.
Or to put a different spin on it, if you have a running back who misses lots of practices, occassionally blows off the big game and isn't in the shape he should be in, do you think that on the Big Day any scouts are going to say, "Well, he was a premed....." Don't count on it. Adcoms are scouts for med schools.
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Oh, boy. Be careful you don't misinterpret the message here....
Med schools like successful college athetes. It shows they can manage time and still deliver the goods. Med schools do not like unsuccessful college atheletes (low grades, low MCAT, low ECs). These are dime a dozen. This just shows that you had higher priorities than medicine. These are good people to weed out.
Before anyone takes any bad advice, get some input from folks who've walked the walk. I know a number of college atheletes in med school now. The one thing they have in common is strong applications.
If any current medical student can chime in about how they had a weak applicaiton that was overlooked due to the fact that they were busy with sports, I'd love to hear it. But don't count on it.
Everyone needs a strong app. Do not expect leniency for sports, for teen pregnancy, for the fact you work full-time or any other excuse. Because there are too many applicants who have these time commitments in their lives that are still able to produce strong apps. Why accept those who can't?
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I agree with this. Being a D1 athlete is certainly unique and can put you over the top when it comes to acceptances since med schools all want diverse/well-rounded student bodies.
However, playing a sport is your choice. Unlike having to work 40 hours a week to support yourself or spending 30 hours/wk to take care of your sick mother, spending 30 hours/week playing lacrosse or basketball is a personal choice. Don't expect to get any breaks on your GPA or on required clinical experiences just because you're a D1 athlete.
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Haha at first by D1 I thought you were referring to the once popular Blizzard game, Diablo (since there was a sequel).
And by owning your life I was worried perhaps you couldn't slay the dungeon butcher...
And by owning your life I was worried perhaps you couldn't slay the dungeon butcher...
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Having played DII football I see a couple of things wrong with this statement.
First, DII does receive scholarships, they are just limited to lower set allowance as compared to their DI counterparts. eg. DII football is limited to 36 full rides and DI is limited to 85. Your right that DIII cannot give athletic scholarships.
Second, I would wager that most athletes at lower division schools have just as many time constraints as their DI counterparts, if not more. Just because we get less money it doesn't mean practice is optional. I spent just as much time in meetings, working out, and practicing as a DI athlete + I had to work to help put myself through school. During the season I would go to school at 6am get back at 8pm and then study the rest of the night!
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first off, no one should ever be able to classify baseball as physically exhausting.
secondly, you cant speak for the time commitment of a DIII sport b/c you don't play one. I played DIII football for a natinally ranked team (top 10)my freshman year. we were undefeated. we had 3 hour practice every single day and 3 days a week we had hour and a half weightlifting before practice. then we have games which take up your entire saturday or weekend if it is scheduled away and you have to travel. you can do the math with the # of hours.
if you want to play for an NCAA division I, II, or III national championship, the hours of commitment are endless.
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its a big plus, and you definitely could still do well in school. i remember, john navarre (i think thats how you spell it), he was the starting quarterback for michigan a few yaers ago. FREAKING MICHIGAN!!!. not only is michigan a powerhouse in academics, but a powerhouse in sports too. anyways, i remember watching the rose bowl and they did a special editorial on him. he ended up with a 3.5 in some science degree and went on to dental school
EDIT: nevermind, i just looked him up, and apparently, he decided to go to the NFL after all...but he still pulled off a really good gpa, nonetheless.
EDIT: nevermind, i just looked him up, and apparently, he decided to go to the NFL after all...but he still pulled off a really good gpa, nonetheless.
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and i agree, playing sports takes up much more time and is much more demanding than any pre med volunteering and leadership, and trust me, ive done my fair share of these.. its just insane how much you guys have to go through.
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4 years of varsity soccer at the Div 3 level plus a competitive snowboarder. My athletic background was a big plus but my stats were competitive. Athletics will help you if the rest of your application is solid but it won't save a weak application.
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Unless things have changed in the last 2 years DII schools give out athletic scholarships. NAIA is the same way. NAIA is probably the most demanding of them all because they basically have minimal rules concerning number of games etc.
I played DIII baseball and we had more conditioning sessions than our football team did. We did cardio at least 4 days a week and lifted 5 days per week during the off season. We basically did track team workouts combined with all the other baseball practices and training sessions. Yes it was exhausting. I think the above DI baseball player would agree with me. Having 2 or 3 practices per day the entire school year tends to wear on you a little bit and leaves little time for academics. I can remember getting off the bus from baseball trips and walking straight to some evening gen chem tests.
I would agree that DIII can be as demanding as DI. We practiced pretty much the same amount as my friends in DI sports with only a larger restriction on number of games. We still played 40+ though. There is more travel in DI though.
To those of you that did play sports I agree that spending sometimes 60+ hours a week doing sports stuff is completely different than going to the hospital 5 hours a week to change bedpans, doing 10 hours of PCR lackey work, shadowing a doctor for 5 hours and/or working at a soup kitchen. These "ECs" are not even comparable to college athletics.
I wonder how many of the gunners know what its like to run until you puke then try to start studying at 11pm.
I played DIII baseball and we had more conditioning sessions than our football team did. We did cardio at least 4 days a week and lifted 5 days per week during the off season. We basically did track team workouts combined with all the other baseball practices and training sessions. Yes it was exhausting. I think the above DI baseball player would agree with me. Having 2 or 3 practices per day the entire school year tends to wear on you a little bit and leaves little time for academics. I can remember getting off the bus from baseball trips and walking straight to some evening gen chem tests.
I would agree that DIII can be as demanding as DI. We practiced pretty much the same amount as my friends in DI sports with only a larger restriction on number of games. We still played 40+ though. There is more travel in DI though.
To those of you that did play sports I agree that spending sometimes 60+ hours a week doing sports stuff is completely different than going to the hospital 5 hours a week to change bedpans, doing 10 hours of PCR lackey work, shadowing a doctor for 5 hours and/or working at a soup kitchen. These "ECs" are not even comparable to college athletics.
I wonder how many of the gunners know what its like to run until you puke then try to start studying at 11pm.
I've read that it doesn't really matter unless you were on a championship team or the close to it. It only counts as a GREAT extra curricular. If you care enough about what you'll be doing when you're 50, and you can't get a ~3.5 as a student-athelete, then they expect you to conform to them, not vice-a-versa.
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I'm a third year med student who did all of the above. i have family that are D1 players.
believe me, their life is a LOT busier than mine.
I give anyone who can maintain a 3.0 and do D1 sports a LOT of credit. unfortunately alot of the people on adcoms are nerds who didn't play too many varsity sports and wouldn't realize this.
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a friend of mine played volleyball and just got an acceptance from duke, after a LATE application. she says she feels one of the main reasons her interview went so well is b/c her and her interview bonded over volleyball and working as a team bla bla bla how it relates to med school. she said it made the difference.
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Well said. A lot of people in academia do not know anything about sports and the time commitments involved. Especially people from foreign countries that put no value on sports in their culture. I think it has a lot to do with what school is looking at your application and the individual(s) actually screening your application/ interviewing you. That being said though, there are a lot of people in medicine that love sports and have played them their entire lives.
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Totally agree with you 100%
Although I'm still on the outside looking in, I can't imagine med school being as all time consuming as trying to juggle school, athletics, and premed activities. At least not in the first two years.
The sad thing is I've had four interviews and not a single one of my interviewers asked about my athletic activities. I would try to bring it up, but each time they seemed disinterested. Most adcoms believe that athletics are a good activity, but don't really understand how difficult it is to succeed as a premed collegiate athlete.
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i dunno how much free time ill have once i'm established and all that, but my hope is that ill be able to play rugby for a local team wherever I live.
i blew out my knee last year in a scrimmage against an older team (all out of college but the age range varied). the first person to my side was a doc who was playing for the other team.
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Definitely agree with you. At one school I was interviewed by an older guy that was interested in my athletics and we talked about physical activities and their benefit to health and so forth. On the other hand, at the same school I was interviewed by a lady who was asking about my time commitments and did not seem to think that spending 25-60 hrs a week in sports was a big deal. She was more interested in hearing what 'other' meaningless activities I spent time with as in I was supposed to be volunteering 20 hours a week on top of everything else. Needless to say, she was one of those people that just couldnt understand.
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Yup. It's quite evident on this thread that alot of people don't put much value in it. I mean, "they're just running a ball from one end of the court to the other, big deal. I observed lab rats for ten hours last week and wrote an article about it" 😀
I'm not a sports person. I'm completely uncoordinated and the last time I watched ESPN was when Stanford beat USC 🙂meanie🙂 but I still understand that it's an IMMENSE accomplishment to even remotely be able to juggle both. Most of us struggle to go to the gym for 30 minutes a day. Imagine summer football camp. Imagine no summers off to do internships. Imagine the entire month of March blocked off for March madness?
Your future patients could not care less that you volunteered at a hospital (which usually translates into pushing patients in a wheelchair to radiology or delivering flowers). But tell them you won the Rose Bowl...hell yes.
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anecdote: a buddy of mine whose dad is a doctor (i only bring this up because it was one possible angle he could have to used to answer the question, 'why do you want to be a doctor') played D3 soccer and was varsity all four years. he had a ~3.9 BCPM and his undergrad GPA in poetry (yah, poetry) was similar. his MCAT score wasn't great, a 30, but even so, he didn't get into med school. his other ECs were almost non-existent.
so, there you have it - an average MCAT score and not much in the way of ECs other than sports will not get you far. rock the MCAT and at least do some ER volunteering or something.
edit: also, he applied really early (finished most places in July-August) and broadly.
so, there you have it - an average MCAT score and not much in the way of ECs other than sports will not get you far. rock the MCAT and at least do some ER volunteering or something.
edit: also, he applied really early (finished most places in July-August) and broadly.
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I've been out of the MCAT loop for awhile..... 30 is no longer a good score? You'll always find someone who didn't get in despite a glorious resume. Your friend might be a jerk and that came across at the interview. he may have not applied to enough places. People may have been confused by the poetry major. Who knows.
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I dont think anyone on here is arguing that sports and scores alone will get you in somewhere. On the other side of your story though there are probably 5 athletes with 3.4s 3.5s that got in. I think many medical students will tell you that there are a significant amount of former athletes in their class. As you would probably agree, without clinical experience you are indeed screwed.
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actually he only got interviews at two of his state schools. i'm guessing that it was his lack of medical-related ECs and perhaps essays that screwed him.
maybe my perception is skewed, but it seems like a 30 MCAT isn't anything to write home about. 33+ is a competitive number as far as i understand.
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Me too. Just not credit for medical school.
I interview applicants at my school. During the interview, I'll give time to talk about anything that the applicant is passionate, be it his research project or athletic. Folks eyes light up when they talk about something they're passionate about. You get a better picture of who they are.
But whether they're talking about sports or research, you don't cut them slack. You can either hack it or you can't. There are a million excuses why you didn't get the grades or MCAT you wanted. Sports will keep you busy, as will the kids at home, as wil being vice president of your sorority. But at the end of the day, guess what?
There's someone just as busy as you who can deliver the goods. We'll take that person. D1 athletics are challenging, but there's just too many atheletes who can also keep up their grades and numbers. We really don't have to accept those who can't.
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Uh, if someone is one of these ex-atheletes that's prone to living in the Glory Days of past accomplishments, you might visualize patients sitting with eyes wide as you detail your Big Game. But you might be better off expecting to find patients tugging on your sleeves and saying, "Hey, that's really great, Doc, but about my heart..."
Unless you're just shooting the $hit, most patients could care less about your college athletics or your college volunteering. They're more concerned about what you have to say about them, selfish patients. Hearing about the Big Game is great from your car salesman, but your doctor? Not so much.
Also, the folks who complain most about volunteering are those who lack imagination. If your best clinical experiences are like the ones you describe above, you just didn't try hard enough. Look beyond the hospitals to clinics and to hospices. No one holds a gun to anyone's head and demands that they do the ER thing, but more than 50% of applicants do. Not sure where this comes from. Many applicants I come across were able to have pretty rich volunteer experiences, not the kinds you toss out above.
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Believe it or not, the average for matriculants is now running at about 32. What a difference a few years makes, no?
Agreed. I wouldn't make sweeping generalizations about the system based on one admit or rejection.
I think pretty much everyone on this thread has agreed that D1 athletics (or any kind of athletics) will be viewed with varying levels of respect. It will probably be pretty dependent on how much exposure the interviewer has with athletics.
But the OP asked about leniency. No. Absolutely not. You will not get it in medical school admissions for any reasons, much less for something as optional as athletics. Too many other applicants have the full package to accept people who don't.
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I played D1 baseball in the ACC. It might help a bit, but in terms of time spent/benefit ratio, it sucks.
Don't bank on any of your unique flower EC's to get you into medical school. There are 40,000 people out there thinking the same thing.
Don't bank on any of your unique flower EC's to get you into medical school. There are 40,000 people out there thinking the same thing.
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I just need to reiterate what many people are saying above. Playing D1 sports is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot for medical school admissions.
For the reasons given above (I especially find it true that they will value 10 hours a week and a paper more than 5x that commitment to a sport), adcoms will not value this activity commensurate with the effort you will put into it. (Edit: basically what thebeatblitz just said.)
That being said, you need to interrogate your priorities. What are your major goals in life? Would a career in medicine define your life or simply be a part of it? What is important to you? What kind of tradeoffs are you willing to make in terms of success now versus later?
Are you willing to trade a tier in medical school admissions for the opportunity to play D1?
For the reasons given above (I especially find it true that they will value 10 hours a week and a paper more than 5x that commitment to a sport), adcoms will not value this activity commensurate with the effort you will put into it. (Edit: basically what thebeatblitz just said.)
That being said, you need to interrogate your priorities. What are your major goals in life? Would a career in medicine define your life or simply be a part of it? What is important to you? What kind of tradeoffs are you willing to make in terms of success now versus later?
Are you willing to trade a tier in medical school admissions for the opportunity to play D1?
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Wow, ACC basketball player? I had no idea there was talent like that amongst us on SDN. I wonder if Tyler Hansbrough is pre-med ...
I've heard people on the adcom at Maryland and Michigan both say they value athletics as an EC. The Dean of Admissions at Maryland even told a story about a Hopkins lacrosse player with a 3.0 who the adcom argued about (and eventually let in) and another one about the adcom arguing over a DIII athlete and whether his experience mattered (in the end they decided it was still a large time commitment and should count for something.)
That being said, I'm sure it varies a lot from school to school and interviewer to interviewer. I don't know if that 3.0 lax player gets in today ... My guess is DI atheltics gets you some leniancy on your grades and hours spent volunteering / researching and gives you a nice EC to make you stand out, but you still have to show that you can handle the work-load in medschool with decent grades and a decent mcat and that you are passionate about medicine as a carear, which probably meams at least some shadowing, some volunteeering like LizzyM said.
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You might get leniency if Cornell's intramural flag football team is tired of getting beat by Columbia in their annual match.
What about people who play D1 golf?
What about people who play D1 golf?
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I did. I also had a part time job, maybe that helped. OP, you aren't going to have another time in your life to be able to compete and train in a sport like this. Go for it. Even if you have to take an extra year in between to make up for something (clinical experience, for example) that you missed. It's worth it.
In sports, success becomes possible through sheer force of will. That's one thing that, no matter how brilliant you are, you don't find in the classroom. A 4.0 may guarantee your future life as a physician, but your college years wouldn't have been as rich as if you played the sport you love--and this goes for anybody giving up something they love "just" to get into med school.
To quote a sports writer none of you know (yet):
"There are those that say that sports are just games, that they are simply pastimes to be quickly forgotten and pushed aside as we grow older and move into our battleship-gray cubicles. The mind, after all, is the arbiter of a successful future in a capitalist nation, not the body. I say that those people have missed the point. I say that those people are the kind that have wheels on their luggage and no dirt under their fingernails. I say that straight-A's at the expense of your body is just as horrible a crime as four varsity letters at the expense of your mind."
College is your last chance, and there is nothing like D1 sports. Should you let your grades suffer? NO! But don't forgo the opportunity to do it because you're worried you might get a B or two. You can become the "total package" in a variety of ways after all....
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No one is arguing that. Athletics is valued like any other EC.
Of course, this player could also have had a 38 MCAT and this could have been 10 years ago, when averages were a lot lower.
Not true. According to most folks who have participated in med school admissions, this is not the case. Athletics is a good to great EC, depending on your interviewer, but leniency will not generally be granted for it or anything else on your application. This is just not how med admissions works. Be very careful about suggesting that being an athelete will make up for a substandard GPA or MCAT.
Athletics won't, Peace Corps won't, and military service won't. They're all ECs. They're the icing on the cake; it it's a bad cake, they won't care about the icing.
Poor grades being excused by how well you carry a football pretty much ends with undergrad. No athletic scholarships in med school.
