'Please Change the Culture of Surgery'

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
This made me lol because I was a goalie for 6 years.

The goalie on one of my teams is starting to skate out for the first time in years and our teammates ask him if he feels less like a weirdo when he's not in his own net. I told him I noticed that he only whispers now about how jet fuel can't melt steel beams instead of shouting it.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The goalie on one of my teams is starting to skate out for the first time in years and our teammates ask him if he feels less like a weirdo when he's not in his own net. I joke that he only whispers now about how jet fuel can't melt steel beams instead of shouting it.

LOL.
 
The goalie on one of my teams is starting to skate out for the first time in years and our teammates ask him if he feels less like a weirdo when he's not in his own net. I joke that he only whispers now about how jet fuel can't melt steel beams instead of shouting it.

I used to stand watch pretty regularly with a junior enlisted guy who was convinced 9/11 was an inside job. He was awesome to stand watch with. Debating conspiracy theories with him made the time go by so fast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Something I’ve wondered about as a potential start at a solution:

What if the ACGME adapted and published the annual surveys we all do to produce a document that ranks programs by specialty along such metrics as perceived culture, QOL, etc?

While I’m hesitant to say a real systemic problem exists at all, if it does, it must be highly program specific. It might even depend heavily on the current crop of trainees in any given program. Would some good old fashioned ranking be helpful here? My prediction would be a skewed distribution that showed most programs would cluster around a fairly good/high mean with a sprinkling of country club cushy programs above and some really malignant ones below.

I could see this being helpful for many reasons. A few worth mentioning:
1) poor performing programs would see themselves ranked very low compared to their peers, possibly spurring measures for change
2) students would have another highly valuable piece of objective data about programs when making their application and ranking decisions.
3) rankings seem to have a mythical power to provoke change. We all see medical schools and hospitals trying to game the USNWR rankings. We all remember the collective yawn when the Doximity residency rankings came out, followed by big pushes by programs in the following years to get all their eligible alumni to vote.

I think that could have some great utility if it could be executed properly, but realistically I think it would be extremely difficult to execute properly. Even if you managed to get honest responses from every program across the country one year, I'd suspect the really malignant programs would come down pretty hard on their residents for giving low ratings. Idk how common or to what extent it occurs, but at the places where "shut up or risk getting fired" is an unspoken rule I don't think you'd see an honest response for more than a year.
 
Doximity | Please Change the Culture of Surgery



It is December 2017. I have been on the road for the last five months, completing my five months of elective rotations. I am a fourth-year medical student aspiring to specialize in family medicine. I also want to learn procedures, so I did two months of surgery, three months of family practice electives. At the beginning of this process, I had wanted to be a general surgeon, but I ended up choosing family medicine.

Back in third year, I had very auspicious rotations in rural Appalachia where I was one on one with a few general surgeons. I loved it; the hours were not too bad and the weekend calls were thrilling. Three attending surgeons whom I loved suggested to me that I go on to a surgical residency; I went and set up two auditions to see what surgical life was truly like.

On my first surgical rotation in Pennsylvania, I was devastated, yelled at, berated. Repeatedly surgical residents told me I was not good enough, chastised me for tying a knot too tight or too loose, or one centimeter to the left. I worked over 80 hours a week, sometimes in the 100s. But still, this was not good enough for them. After hearing the vascular attending go insane because insurance denied his patient from getting a recovery enhancing blood treatment, I began to experience dissociation. Mornings became nights and nights became mornings. To the residents, I was simply a body to be used: “Hold this retractor here.” I did not move for four hours. Later, “take this paper to the nursing station.” A paper scut monkey, as they called us. After one month of being told I would be “speared and bled out” if I messed up, I finished my audition rotation, packed my bags, and vowed never to return to this town ever again.

On my second surgical audition in New Jersey, I thought I would see a better side of medicine. After all, Jersey is warmer, so maybe people would be nicer? Nope. Even worse. After a brutal week of 28-hour shifts, nights, and weekend calls, the residents took me in a room, closed the door behind me, and yelled at me for an hour straight. They told me every single mistake I made. I cried later, in the solace of the second-floor bathroom in the surgical suite. I was becoming someone I was not: I yelled at some random person’s dog on my way home and felt miserable for doing so. Where was the happy med student who had felt so successful in third year? My last day on service, I told the “friendliest” chief resident that I could not take it anymore. She apologized to me for the behavior of her residents and agreed I should not pursue surgery. So I quit.

Patients and surgeons lost a great doctor that day. As a third year I was assisting on bariatric and general surgeries, and as a fourth year, I assisted on cancer operations. My nurses loved me; my rural general surgeons loved me. I just could not see myself in a surgical residency anymore.

Fast forward to three months of family medicine auditions, and I have been so much happier. I am treated like a human. My patients love me and smile at me. My nurses talk to me with respect. My attendings let me be who I want to be. I wake up at a decent hour, and I am back at a decent hour. I have some weekends for myself. I have most nights for myself. I found some residencies that care about mental health: They have work-life balance in family medicine. Yes the salary prospects are not great, and I have nearly 250k in educational loans, but the fact remains that I probably saved myself from true death by switching out of the tunnel of gloom that is surgery. So I send the message to the surgeons out there: Please change the culture of surgery.

Doximity is such a whiny site. Every article seems to be “I can’t handle the pressure of a difficult situation, all of which is someone else’s fault.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
My parents sound a lot tougher than these residents. Glad you didn't grow up in my household
 
Doximity is such a whiny site. Every article seems to be “I can’t handle the pressure of a difficult situation, all of which is someone else’s fault.”

KevinMD too. It's like a Livejournal of Xanga with the authors taking themselves too seriously due to their credentials.

The thing about the two sites is every once in a while you'll read a good piece on something like KevinMD, and wonder why the author doesn't pitch their piece to an actual paying publication and get some $$ out of it. I've certainly seen some garbage writing in major newspapers by MDs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
KevinMD too. It's like a Livejournal of Xanga with the authors taking themselves too seriously due to their credentials.

The thing about the two sites is every once in a while you'll read a good piece on something like KevinMD, and wonder why the author doesn't pitch their piece to an actual paying publication and get some $$ out of it. I've certainly seen some garbage writing in major newspapers by MDs.

All you have to do is move to china and write scathing articles blaming your former colleagues for things they have no control over to be regularly featured in the nytimes
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Considering that 1. The trainees are paying six figures for their education and 2. Trainees care about the kind of education that they are receiving, there is nothing wrong with a trainee speaking up if they have issues with their education. If a surgeon threatened to stab me when I made a mistake or I was yelled at for an hour by a group residents, I would definitely take issue with that because that is not conducive to a good learning environment. I have no issue with criticism when I make a mistake, but the examples given by OP are excessive.

While it is true that students paid for their education and should speak up if they feel they aren’t getting what they are paid for however unlike students in a classroom where the teachers job is only to teach our jobs as surgeons (and other medical specialties) are not primarily to teach, they are not even secondarily to teach therefore it is much more on the Student to take ownership of their education, there are days where I’m to busy or too tired to go over the ins and outs of a Surgery, perhaps then it would be a good time to take initiative and read about the procedure yourself. The new generation of students seems to want to be spoonfed information especially if on rotation for a specialty they don’t really have any interest in. I read the article and I have a suspicion that particular student was not truly interested in a career in surgery, and themselves stated they primarily did the surgery AIs to get procedural experience, which was probably their first mistake since you get about as much procedural experience as a student on Surgery as I get piloting experience on my way to San Francisco; they may have subsequently felt slighted and that perceived slight grew into this essay. They also wrote that Jersey was warmer than Pennsylvania so perhaps the surgeons would be nicer, perhaps tongue in cheek but may be a symptom of lack of insight as New Jersey programs have been known to be fairly malignant. They are not wrong that there are some toxic attitudes in Surgery and medicine in general but they are continually improving and are even better from 10 years ago when I started. It seems like they came in with the wrong attitude and then expected the rotation to change it and when it didn’t their attitude got worse, they probably got not great evaluations and the reflex is to blame it on the culture of surgery.
 
All you have to do is move to china and write scathing articles blaming your former colleagues for things they have no control over to be regularly featured in the nytimes

I'm missing the reference. (I'm sure I'll kick myself if you tell me).
 
Top