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Justin4563

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this is my altruistic advice to all pre meds out there.. from the bottom of my heart.. really.. consider doing someting else... I just finished my residency and I cannot tell you how badly i want the last ten years of my life back. They have been the absolutely the worst years of my life. I have seen the worst of humanity the greed the dissention the back stabbing. The sheer lack of respect for fellow human beings. The loneliness of studying, the long hours, lack of sleep lack of respect among colleagues and everyone. and it does not end. it gets worse. and it does not even pay.. did you hear that.. The insurers dont even respect you enough for all that you have been through, and given up in your life to respect you enough to pay you for what youve been through.. You will make a whopping 90-100 k per year if you choose a primary care field. and if you are lucky can double that if you bust your ass in a surgical subspecialty... plus the health risks, the amount of money that is owed, if any of you say.. its not the money.. you will seee.. you will see what i mean..
 
Why are you so bitter? What caused you to come to this realization now? What type of residency did you just finish? Why did you not quit sooner and go into something else? Do all those who are finishing residency with you at your program/hospital feel this way. sincerely curious.

CW
Justin4563 said:
this is my altruistic advice to all pre meds out there.. from the bottom of my heart.. really.. consider doing someting else... I just finished my residency and I cannot tell you how badly i want the last ten years of my life back. They have been the absolutely the worst years of my life. I have seen the worst of humanity the greed the dissention the back stabbing. The sheer lack of respect for fellow human beings. The loneliness of studying, the long hours, lack of sleep lack of respect among colleagues and everyone. and it does not end. it gets worse. and it does not even pay.. did you hear that.. The insurers dont even respect you enough for all that you have been through, and given up in your life to respect you enough to pay you for what youve been through.. You will make a whopping 90-100 k per year if you choose a primary care field. and if you are lucky can double that if you bust your ass in a surgical subspecialty... plus the health risks, the amount of money that is owed, if any of you say.. its not the money.. you will seee.. you will see what i mean..
 
Justin4563 said:
this is my altruistic advice to all pre meds out there.. from the bottom of my heart.. really.. consider doing someting else... I just finished my residency and I cannot tell you how badly i want the last ten years of my life back. They have been the absolutely the worst years of my life. I have seen the worst of humanity the greed the dissention the back stabbing. The sheer lack of respect for fellow human beings. The loneliness of studying, the long hours, lack of sleep lack of respect among colleagues and everyone. and it does not end. it gets worse. and it does not even pay.. did you hear that.. The insurers dont even respect you enough for all that you have been through, and given up in your life to respect you enough to pay you for what youve been through.. You will make a whopping 90-100 k per year if you choose a primary care field. and if you are lucky can double that if you bust your ass in a surgical subspecialty... plus the health risks, the amount of money that is owed, if any of you say.. its not the money.. you will seee.. you will see what i mean..


elaborate...a bit more did u save all this for the end?
 
Justin4563 said:
this is my altruistic advice to all pre meds out there.. from the bottom of my heart.. really.. consider doing someting else... I just finished my residency and I cannot tell you how badly i want the last ten years of my life back. They have been the absolutely the worst years of my life. I have seen the worst of humanity the greed the dissention the back stabbing. The sheer lack of respect for fellow human beings. The loneliness of studying, the long hours, lack of sleep lack of respect among colleagues and everyone. and it does not end. it gets worse. and it does not even pay.. did you hear that.. The insurers dont even respect you enough for all that you have been through, and given up in your life to respect you enough to pay you for what youve been through.. You will make a whopping 90-100 k per year if you choose a primary care field. and if you are lucky can double that if you bust your ass in a surgical subspecialty... plus the health risks, the amount of money that is owed, if any of you say.. its not the money.. you will seee.. you will see what i mean..

HA! I feel you man. I can't count how many residents I've spoken with while I was an intern who have VOLUNTEERED the information (i.e. I never asked them) that if they could do it over again, they would NOT go into medicine.

Well, there must be SOMETHING going on that makes all these residents bitter, huh? Can this all be by chance? I doubt it. Why is it that everyone is going into Radiology, Anesthesiology, Pathology, or Emergency Medicine?

*edited by DrMom: advertising*

Well, good luck,
Anesthesiaman
 
Yes, I would love for you to be abit more in-detail about how you feel.
Thank you.
 
ComfortableWolf said:
Why are you so bitter? What caused you to come to this realization now? What type of residency did you just finish? Why did you not quit sooner and go into something else? Do all those who are finishing residency with you at your program/hospital feel this way. sincerely curious.

CW[/QU


I did not come to the realization now..

I like t he practice of medicine.. its not the patients .. its the system.. It is aboslutely and positively the worst. When i found out how nauseating it was I was 90 thousand dollars in the hole.. and a fourthe year student.. tough to walk away from that.. SO as soon as my loans are paid off.. Im a goner.. what a waste of a good profession
 
Oh my G-d 😱 thank you so much, I'm gonna drop my position in medical school immedietly. Wait........you know what? never mind


Yes, yes, we'll all become bitter, bla bla bla. The system is horrible, bla bla bla. We'll all leave med school with a huge amount of debt, bla bla bla. Get the trend?

Of course residency is HARD , all of us pre-meds (some soon to be MS1s) already know and understand what we're getting ourselves into. We don't need a disgruntled doctor in their residency to come "save" us and change our minds and sway us from our passion.

I doubt to you that any of us "lowly" and "inexperienced" premeds can even fathom what you have gone through in residency but you know what? We don't care, we want to go through it too and if you're gonna come on here and gripe why not give legitimate reasons.

Like......your attending is an dingus, nurses treat you like ****, you have to stay awake days at a time.......and so on.

Thanks for your altruism but no thanks. Eventually we'll all get through the hazing of med school and residency (and maybe fellowships) and become practicing physicians and we'll be able to practice medicine as we please. Physicians overall do get a great sense of satisfaction treating their patients and do enjoy being doctors. The rewards of being a physician far outweigh any difficulties that we will encounter. Thats my two cents.
 
Maybe you should take this inside knowledge and frustration you have with the medical system and work toward changing it? I am applying to medical schools right now and like you I know I will LOVE the practice of medicine but the system almost seems to prevent you from enjoying it. I also want to get my Masters in Public Policy and work toward changing the health care system. If our generation doesn't do something.... who will? I'm sorry that you are so disheartened with the reality of being a physician. It is your life, though.... don't waste it doing something that gets you so down.
 
Be Advised: Those who have vitriolic attitudes towards their past experiences are much more likely to post disheartening threads in SDN forums. It's like reading the newspaper; if this was your only exposure to what happens in the world, you would have very little motivation take a step out your door. Yes, leaving your house is a scary proposal, but only you can judge whether it would be worth it. Those who think the events of your life are within your sphere of influence should stay motivated & get out there and get your own feel for what the medical field is like.

Be doubly advised: some people are not content in whatever their position in life. Don't be one of these.
 
For every disgruntled resident out there, I can find 20 or more attendings who will tell you that medicine is great and the sacrifices you make as a student and resident make it that much sweeter.

I'd like to thank the OP for his $.02, but we'll make our own decisions.

Obviously, you didn't know squat about what you wanted out of a career when you applied to med school.

Good luck in your new career. :luck:
 
I did a little research and found out that in 2001 the OP claimed to be an anesthesiology resident and loving it. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=260755#post260755

However in that same year he tells numerous pre-meds to get out while they can. Interestingly enough the OP claims to be a 3rd year resident in May of 2001: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=160892#post160892 , and stays true to this dateline and says that he is a 4th year resident in September of that year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=139932#post139932

In this post the OP claims that he just finished his residency.
Now, maybe there are anesthesiology residencies that last 7 years, but I can't seem to find any.

More inconsistencies:

Here the OP claims to have just taken the USMLE step 3 in 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=266156#post266156

Here the OP claims to be finishing an anesthesiology residency in May of 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=261076#post261076

Here in 2003 the OP claims to be accepted to a Tufts residency: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=651019#post651019

And here the OP says he just moved to Cleveland (Tufts is not in Cleveland): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=846654#post846654

Apparently the OP becomes an Anesthesiology resident in Cleveland: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=975430#post975430

But then the OP is wondering about LA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1162707#post1162707

But in 2004 the OP finished his residency in New Jersey!: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1589083#post1589083

Or is he? Later that year the OP is just finishing his residency:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1652360#post1652360

2 months later and the OP is a new attending, relating a story of another student's disillusionment with medicine:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1876950#post1876950
 
LevatorAni said:
For every disgruntled resident out there, I can find 20 or more attendings who will tell you that medicine is great and the sacrifices you make as a student and resident make it that much sweeter.

I'd like to thank the OP for his $.02, but we'll make our own decisions.

Obviously, you didn't know squat about what you wanted out of a career when you applied to med school.

Good luck in your new career. :luck:


Very very true. There was a thread already discussing this, where med students told whether they would do it again or not. If I can find the post, I'll bump it up.

However, there were many who said they wouldn't do it over again, and then there were those that would do it over again. case in point, we have Wahoos who would be very happy to be an Ortho surgeon and posted so much detailed info on his residency days that just have begun.

On the other hand, we have people here that would go look in the opposite direction.

You will always find people who will tell you to run in the opposite direction. you will also here from those that would do it over in a heartbeat, or might not necessarily do it over again, but don't regret doing it the first time around.

Its easier to look at the greener pastures rather then looking at the positive of where you are in life. Try to be more uplifting and look at how you can bring some good to medicine.
 
Medikit said:
I did a little research and found out that in 2001 the OP claimed to be an anesthesiology resident and loving it. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=260755#post260755

However in that same year he tells numerous pre-meds to get out while they can. Interestingly enough the OP claims to be a 3rd year resident in May of 2001: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=160892#post160892 , and stays true to this dateline and says that he is a 4th year resident in September of that year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=139932#post139932

In this post the OP claims that he just finished his residency.
Now, maybe there are anesthesiology residency that last 7 years, but I can't seem to find any.

More inconsistencies:

Here the OP claims to have just taken the USMLE step 3 in 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=266156#post266156

Here the OP claims to be finishing an anesthesiology residency in May of 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=261076#post261076

Here in 2003 the OP claims to be accepted to a Tufts residency: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=651019#post651019

And here the OP says he just moved to Cleveland (Tufts is not in Cleveland): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=846654#post846654

Apparently the OP becomes an Anesthesiology resident in Cleveland: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=975430#post975430

But then the OP is wondering about LA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1162707#post1162707

But in 2004 the OP finished his residency in New Jersey!: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1589083#post1589083

I'm reminded of the old Styx song: "I got tooooo much....time on my hands"

GG though, that's crazy. Maybe the OP is the dude from "my friend is a pathological liar" thread.
 
Indryd said:
I'm reminded of the old Styx song: "I got tooooo much....time on my hands"

GG though, that's crazy. Maybe the OP is the dude from "my friend is a pathological liar" thread.


Or he has multiple personalities. :laugh:
 
LevatorAni said:
For every disgruntled resident out there, I can find 20 or more attendings who will tell you that medicine is great and the sacrifices you make as a student and resident make it that much sweeter.

I'd like to thank the OP for his $.02, but we'll make our own decisions.

Obviously, you didn't know squat about what you wanted out of a career when you applied to med school.

Good luck in your new career. :luck:

You mean that people delude themselves in to thinking that they are happier because they make big sacrifices? How can sacrificing time with your family, your youth, sleep, and quality of life make anything sweeter? WTF does this mean?

All those Gung-Ho premeds need to really need to get a reality check. If you think you'll enjoy working 80+ hour stress-filled weeks with no personal time, there is something seriously wrong with you. I bet that nearly all residents have seriously reconsidered their choice to become a physician. I'd say that most docs enjoy 20-30% of their responsibilities as a doc. That other 70-80% is just a grind that you have to deal with.

You dont love medicine because you want to help people, like science, are fascinated with the human body, and all that other bullsh1t. You enjoy it because you realize that the 20% of the time you spend doing things you like is really fulfilling and makes it worth grinding through everything else.
 
nlyoung said:
Maybe you should take this inside knowledge and frustration you have with the medical system and work toward changing it? I am applying to medical schools right now and like you I know I will LOVE the practice of medicine but the system almost seems to prevent you from enjoying it. I also want to get my Masters in Public Policy and work toward changing the health care system. If our generation doesn't do something.... who will? I'm sorry that you are so disheartened with the reality of being a physician. It is your life, though.... don't waste it doing something that gets you so down.

AGREED! 👍

"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
 
Go to the allopathic board and see how many other people are bitter about their decision about medicine. The OP may not be valid - but a lot of people in the allopathic forum who are 3rd years - residents claimed they would not do it over if they could... it is definately helpful to know these things before starting. It's given me doubts but I'm nevertheless pursuing my dream because I'd be more miserable if I gave up - then go through the hell people speak of.
 
I agree with Medikit, I think this guy is a fraud and its pretty sad when someone has to come on here and lie about their position in residency or med school, etc. etc.

However, that said........

If you want to read the more valid thread on thinking hard before going to medicine, I'll look through my subscribed threads and find the thread where people were talking about whether they'd do it over again and bump it up.
 
Medikit said:
I did a little research and found out that in 2001 the OP claimed to be an anesthesiology resident and loving it. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=260755#post260755

However in that same year he tells numerous pre-meds to get out while they can. Interestingly enough the OP claims to be a 3rd year resident in May of 2001: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=160892#post160892 , and stays true to this dateline and says that he is a 4th year resident in September of that year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=139932#post139932

In this post the OP claims that he just finished his residency.
Now, maybe there are anesthesiology residencies that last 7 years, but I can't seem to find any.

More inconsistencies:

Here the OP claims to have just taken the USMLE step 3 in 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=266156#post266156

Here the OP claims to be finishing an anesthesiology residency in May of 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=261076#post261076

Here in 2003 the OP claims to be accepted to a Tufts residency: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=651019#post651019

And here the OP says he just moved to Cleveland (Tufts is not in Cleveland): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=846654#post846654

Apparently the OP becomes an Anesthesiology resident in Cleveland: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=975430#post975430

But then the OP is wondering about LA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1162707#post1162707

But in 2004 the OP finished his residency in New Jersey!: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1589083#post1589083

Or is he? Later that year the OP is just finishing his residency:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1652360#post1652360

2 months later and the OP is a new attending, relating a story of another student's disillusionment with medicine:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1876950#post1876950

HAHAHAHAHA....I bet he has been applying to get into medical school all these years and can't seem to break in. He has now got so desperate that he is trying to steer other pre-meds away (which I would bet a large amount of money that not one listened).
 
A quick google search on physician job satisfaction returned this study titled "Physician Carrer Satisfaction Across Specialties"; funded by the RWJ foundation that was completed in 2001.

http://www.americangeriatrics.org/education/geristudents/phys_career.pdf

To quote the study on pg 1582.

More than 70% of US physicians reported being satisfied or very satisfied with their careers in medicine.

Granted the conclusion wasn't completely glowing. They do admit that given the enourmous sacrifice it takes to become a physician, the numbers are somewhat "dissapointing".

Dissapointing as it may be, you would still be hard pressed to find any career path with a satisfaction rate much higher than 70%.

Food for thought.
 
Medikit said:
I did a little research and found out that in 2001 the OP claimed to be an anesthesiology resident and loving it. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=260755#post260755

However in that same year he tells numerous pre-meds to get out while they can. Interestingly enough the OP claims to be a 3rd year resident in May of 2001: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=160892#post160892 , and stays true to this dateline and says that he is a 4th year resident in September of that year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=139932#post139932

In this post the OP claims that he just finished his residency.
Now, maybe there are anesthesiology residencies that last 7 years, but I can't seem to find any.

More inconsistencies:

Here the OP claims to have just taken the USMLE step 3 in 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=266156#post266156

Here the OP claims to be finishing an anesthesiology residency in May of 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=261076#post261076

Here in 2003 the OP claims to be accepted to a Tufts residency: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=651019#post651019

And here the OP says he just moved to Cleveland (Tufts is not in Cleveland): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=846654#post846654

Apparently the OP becomes an Anesthesiology resident in Cleveland: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=975430#post975430

But then the OP is wondering about LA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1162707#post1162707

But in 2004 the OP finished his residency in New Jersey!: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1589083#post1589083

Or is he? Later that year the OP is just finishing his residency:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1652360#post1652360

2 months later and the OP is a new attending, relating a story of another student's disillusionment with medicine:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1876950#post1876950

hahaha.. nice job.. what a loser.. :laugh: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie:
 
Medikit said:
I did a little research and found out that in 2001 the OP claimed to be an anesthesiology resident and loving it. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=260755#post260755

However in that same year he tells numerous pre-meds to get out while they can. Interestingly enough the OP claims to be a 3rd year resident in May of 2001: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=160892#post160892 , and stays true to this dateline and says that he is a 4th year resident in September of that year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=139932#post139932

In this post the OP claims that he just finished his residency.
Now, maybe there are anesthesiology residencies that last 7 years, but I can't seem to find any.

More inconsistencies:

Here the OP claims to have just taken the USMLE step 3 in 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=266156#post266156

Here the OP claims to be finishing an anesthesiology residency in May of 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=261076#post261076

Here in 2003 the OP claims to be accepted to a Tufts residency: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=651019#post651019

And here the OP says he just moved to Cleveland (Tufts is not in Cleveland): http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=846654#post846654

Apparently the OP becomes an Anesthesiology resident in Cleveland: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=975430#post975430

But then the OP is wondering about LA: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1162707#post1162707

But in 2004 the OP finished his residency in New Jersey!: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1589083#post1589083

Or is he? Later that year the OP is just finishing his residency:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1652360#post1652360

2 months later and the OP is a new attending, relating a story of another student's disillusionment with medicine:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1876950#post1876950


haha nice investigative work medkit!

this guy is lost.... 👎
 
Okay, on a kind of parallel vein....

Lots of residents are unhappy and the practicing physicians I talk to agree that school and residency are the pits. A few years after residency, once they get into the swing of things, the hours aren't as attrocious and the pay and benefits are good. Yes, some doctors have regrets but you rarely hear of people leaving the profession for something else. It happens, but if everyone was as upset as we are sometimes led to believe then you'd think that people changing careers would be a bigger problem.

Anyway, I wanted some opinions on this:
How negotiable are physician's contracts? Let's say a person is going into family practice and wants to work at a hospital. Now, can the person negotiate for lower salary and fewer hours or less vacation time? What is negotiable---hours, pay,benefits, vacation?? Or does each hospital have a standard offer and that's it?
 
ChuckRock said:
A quick google search on physician job satisfaction returned this study titled "Physician Career Satisfaction Across Specialties"; funded by the RWJ foundation that was completed in 2001.

That's nice to know, but bear in mind that a study completed in 2001 likely will be based on data from 2000 and prior (and seems from the title to have been based on people who already made it through residency and into "specialties", so we are talking about an older and earlier generation of doctors), so it may not still be relevant in late 2005 -- a lot has happened since then in terms of HMOs, insurance reimbursement issues and the like. But still nice to hear. Thanks.
 
This is why I'm so glad to have taken time off working in the real world before going to med school. I won't lie - I've had plenty of times when I've been unsure of my decision, and reading stuff like what the OP wrote was really bothered me.

But what I've learned is, EVERY profession sucks at times. Every job has the annoying paperwork and stupid restrictions that prevent you from just doing your job like you want to do. Just about everyone sometimes thinks "man, it would be so much better if I were doing something else." And some of them are right! Some people get into careers that don't suit them, and a career change makes them happy. Some people are just incapable of seeing the bright side, though, and they're going to complain no matter what (which actually doesn't mean they're necessarily going to be unhappy!)

In my job, I spend about 1/3 of the time doing scut work to prepare for projects, 1/4 actually doing the sort of projects that are in my job description, and the rest doing paperwork (email and documentation). Oh, and several hours a week trying to get management to buy necessary supplies or give me the network access I need for my job or whatever. That's pretty normal - if anyone has a job where they spend more than 60% of their time doing what they hoped to be doing when they started, they're lucky.

Of course medicine is harder than my job - it certainly should be; one of the reasons I'm switching is that a reasonably bright high school student could do my job as well as I do, and I don't see much opportunity beyond that. I want to be challenged.

But I get the impression a lot of premeds have unrealistic expectations, due probably to romanticizing the profession, and then when they spend a significant amount of time doing paperwork and struggling with stupid insurance/hospital procedures, they're really disappointed.

It's entirely possible I won't like it - putting in so much time and sleep deprivation will definitely be far harder than anything I've done so far. But I think I at least have realistic expectations of how much of my time will be spent "actually practicing medicine" because I know that there's no reason medicine should be different from any other career in that respect.
 
hoberto said:
Okay, on a kind of parallel vein....

Anyway, I wanted some opinions on this:
How negotiable are physician's contracts? Let's say a person is going into family practice and wants to work at a hospital. Now, can the person negotiate for lower salary and fewer hours or less vacation time? What is negotiable---hours, pay,benefits, vacation?? Or does each hospital have a standard offer and that's it?

I shadowed a Family physician in Chattanooga, TN who negotiated a decent contract with a hospital down there. He workes 8am to 4:30 (scheduled patient hours), actually finishes up on most days by 5pm, M-F has Wensday morning off to do some hospice care work on the side for extra money. The hospital pays for the independent building, staff, and malpractice insurance. What he told me the hospital pays him is 134000 a year plus additional 50000 a year from the side job. So that is 184,000 a year working 40 hours a week ( 1 hour lunch a day), with no worry about running a buisness Per say staffing, bills and other worries. He said the entire package is negotiable hours, pay, benefits. While other Family physician (family friends) who work for the same hospital have had less pay and less hour, a few even have a lot more hours with awesome pay.
 
You'reCrazy said:
Oh my G-d 😱 thank you so much, I'm gonna drop my position in medical school immedietly. Wait........you know what? never mind


Yes, yes, we'll all become bitter, bla bla bla. The system is horrible, bla bla bla. We'll all leave med school with a huge amount of debt, bla bla bla. Get the trend?

Of course residency is HARD , all of us pre-meds (some soon to be MS1s) already know and understand what we're getting ourselves into. We don't need a disgruntled doctor in their residency to come "save" us and change our minds and sway us from our passion.

I doubt to you that any of us "lowly" and "inexperienced" premeds can even fathom what you have gone through in residency but you know what? We don't care, we want to go through it too and if you're gonna come on here and gripe why not give legitimate reasons.

Like......your attending is an dingus, nurses treat you like ****, you have to stay awake days at a time.......and so on.

Thanks for your altruism but no thanks. Eventually we'll all get through the hazing of med school and residency (and maybe fellowships) and become practicing physicians and we'll be able to practice medicine as we please. Physicians overall do get a great sense of satisfaction treating their patients and do enjoy being doctors. The rewards of being a physician far outweigh any difficulties that we will encounter. Thats my two cents.

geez, no need to act like that. hes just telling you how he feels. ive honestly not met a doctor that doesnt regret going into medicine..of course this isn't going to change our minds, and yes we are "inexperienced"
 
see i am also glad i took this year off. i've discovered how much i love medicine and how i know i'll be happy as a doctor. and speaking to other physicians, yea there's always the crappy classes, the loans, and the rough hours that we all have to go through. it's a part of the process. but afterwards, you love what you do. you're more than willing to work long hours, do that research because you love what you do.

if the OP and anesthesiaman are for real, it just means they don't love what they do. sorry you chose the wrong profession/specialty. go find a new one and be happy with it instead of bitching online to premeds.
 
Don't a lot of people hate their jobs? 😕 😱
 
yourmom25 said:
see i am also glad i took this year off. i've discovered how much i love medicine and how i know i'll be happy as a doctor. and speaking to other physicians, yea there's always the crappy classes, the loans, and the rough hours that we all have to go through. it's a part of the process. but afterwards, you love what you do. you're more than willing to work long hours, do that research because you love what you do.

if the OP and anesthesiaman are for real, it just means they don't love what they do. sorry you chose the wrong profession/specialty. go find a new one and be happy with it instead of bitching online to premeds.

Yes, the take home message here is not that medicine stinks as a profession, but that you ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY need to check the profession (any profession actually) out ahead of time and go into it with your eyes wide open. Don't have any unrealistic expectations based on perceived prestige, glamour, lifestyle or stuff you see on TV or in movies. Don't expect a story book life or career. Shadow doctors, really talk to them, and truly find out what they like and dislike about their jobs and the training it took to get there. Ask a lot of them whether it is worth it or something they would do had they the opportunity to do it over again (you are sure to find people on both sides of the fence, but if you find you identify with some of them as people more than others it might help you). It is mostly those people like the OP that push forward without having a really good sense of what they are getting into (or go into medicine with priorities weighted toward things other than practicing medicine) who tend to end up whining on SDN after they goofed. Those who did the research won't, because they knew what they were getting into and tempered their expectations and hardened their resolve appropriately.
 
The fact of the matter is that IT ALWAYS SUCKS TO BE ON THE BOTTOM RUNG OF THE LADDER. No one likes to do scut work but it is the reality of being a doctor. If you suck it and get through it, had good reasons for medicine in the first place, YOU WILL BE SATISFIED. Also, I don't get why people take into account the "I wouldn't do it again" statement. Yes of course you wouldn't do it again b/c you don't have to. Your also at a different point in your life than 8 years ago.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
The fact of the matter is that IT ALWAYS SUCKS TO BE ON THE BOTTOM RUNG OF THE LADDER. No one likes to do scut work but it is the reality of being a doctor. If you suck it and get through it, had good reasons for medicine in the first place, YOU WILL BE SATISFIED. Also, I don't get why people take into account the "I wouldn't do it again" statement. Yes of course you wouldn't do it again b/c you don't have to. Your also at a different point in your life than 8 years ago.


Very true. I think you put it the best. No one can really say what they would do, if they had to do it over again, cuz even if they could go back in time, would they be able to predict the future??? No!!! No one can change the past, but learn to live with the present.

Everyone needs to learn to live for the moment and not be stuck in the past.
 
My best friend's dad is an orthopod who definitely has been in the biz for quite some time. You'd think he had it all worked out - in a city of 100,000 people, he and 2 others had figured out a rotation where they all worked 4 days a week and were on call for 2 nights (or something similar), he had one of the biggest orchards in the valley, a great house/cars/etc. and made a good $350k/year (pretty good for a small town in Washington). His training was at UW, UCSF, and Edinburgh.

In the last 10 years his net salary has dropped 30% (once inflation is taken into account). When he was told I was going to medical school he said "this is absolutely the worst time to do it. Become a PA."

Yet here I am.

Are we insane?
 
Law2Doc said:
Yes, the take home message here is not that medicine stinks as a profession, but that you ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY need to check the profession (any profession actually) out ahead of time and go into it with your eyes wide open. Don't have any unrealistic expectations based on perceived prestige, glamour, lifestyle or stuff you see on TV or in movies. Don't expect a story book life or career. Shadow doctors, really talk to them, and truly find out what they like and dislike about their jobs and the training it took to get there. Ask a lot of them whether it is worth it or something they would do had they the opportunity to do it over again (you are sure to find people on both sides of the fence, but if you find you identify with some of them as people more than others it might help you). It is mostly those people like the OP that push forward without having a really good sense of what they are getting into (or go into medicine with priorities weighted toward things other than practicing medicine) who tend to end up whining on SDN after they goofed. Those who did the research won't, because they knew what they were getting into and tempered their expectations and hardened their resolve appropriately.

exactly, exactly, exactly. i went to law school immediately after undergrad and hated it. the problem was that i was young and stupid and didn't do my research. unfortunately, i know people who went to med school who made the same mistakes, and yes, they're miserable. that doesn't mean that law, medicine or whatever is bad for you -- just do the research and go in with as much knowledge as possible. oh yeah, and be sure not to discount the negative opinions -- be thankful that people are being honest with you.
 
just want to give my 2 cents here. (I am a ortho resident, who is currently doing my surgery internship). First of all, there will always be people/residents/attendings who will tell you that medicine has tons of problems, you will be overworked, the politics of medicine/health care system sucks, and the future is only going down hills, I would not have gone this route if I had to do it over again..... Some of this is true and some of it are just the personal perspective of these people. Just like the old saying that if you have a half glass full of water, some people will see the it is half full and others will see that it is half empty. The same life experience are perceived differently by 2 different persons. To give you a good example, 2 of my best friends from medical school went to Ghana for 4 weeks to do a medical rotation, they both went to the same beach hotel for the weekend, and they both sent me an email about the weekend. One person told me that it was one of the most beautiful place that he has ever seen before, the beaches in Ghana was amazing, it was so relaxing to sip a drink and watching the waves, even more amazing to be in Ghana. My other friend also emailed me about the trip, she told me that the hotel was dirty as SH@#, the service sucked, there was no hot water, and that she can't wait to get back to the States. So as you can see, people will always have different ways of looking and living the same/similar experience.

In my previous posts about my internship so far, I have said alot of good things about medicine and why I love this profession. People can say, you have only been an intern for little over 2 weeks, why don't you come back in 5 years and post whether you still like being a resident and being in medicine. That is true I have only been an intern for 2 wks, but I have done 2 years of clinical medicine and I still enjoy what I do. I can tell you that as a 4th medical student, doing an away elective in Orthopedics when you are trying to impress the program, you will work very very hard. I took call q3-4, I stayed the next day post call to do clinic or OR until 6pm, while the On call resident left at 10am. I was putting in about 110-120 hours for 12 weeks in a row (I did 3 months of Ortho, 2 aways, and 1 at my home program), getting in the hospital at 4am to see all the patients on service and write the notes before my resident rolled in for the rounds. And at the end, I was tired, but still I didn't question whether I was doing the right thing by pursuing medicine because I KNEW this is what I wanted to do. The only time I have ever questioned medicine as a career was in the middle of my 2nd year, when I was studying all the useless details of pathology/pharm/micro/etc, reading books, and taking exams after exams and the boards. That sucked, but clinical medicine and going to the Operating Room is sweet.

And I think someone posted that "all of us pre-meds (some soon to be MS1s) already know and understand what we're getting ourselves into. We don't need a disgruntled doctor in their residency to come "save" us and change our minds and sway us from our passion." That is great you are so enthused about going to medicial school, but I think alot of the Pre Meds really Don't know what they are getting them self into. I sure didn't know when I was a Pre Med and even at the start of medical school. But through the journey of medical school and start of my residency, I still enjoy what I do. In every medical school class, there will be someone who will change their mind and do something else, even in residency, people have switched out of their residencies because they did not know what they were getting themselves into, esp in a surgical speciality. It is only when you have walked through medical school and residency that you will REALLY know what the profession is about. But I would also take what the attendings tell you with a grain of salt. The system is changing regarding work hour and the surgical residency. In 2003, ACGME approved a resolution to limit work hours to 80/wk. It is actually 80 averaged over 4 wks (means you can still be in the hospital 90 per week). So for the last 2 years, many many surgery programs are making changes to make sure they are following this rule, so that they won't loose their accreditation. Now, when I am post call, I go home at 9-noon or even eariler. Before this, even 5 years ago, the gen surg residents were putting in about 120+ hours per week for 5 years. They took call Q 3, and then post call, they had to stay until after OR cases or clinics. I can tell you from experience, that 80 hours vs 120 hours is a HUGE difference. If I was working 120 hours / wk for 5 years, I might hate what I do. Right now, I loged my hours for the 1st 2 weeks and it has been in the high 70s to mid 80s. I still have time to hit the weights 3-4 times per week and run, and go out to bars on one of the days on the weekend when I am not on call. So life is Goooood.

Also residencies are very different. Some follow the 80 hour rule, attendings enjoy teaching, and the people are happy, some programs, the residents will still work 100 hours, with malignant attending, and people are not happy. So the same general surgery residents, from different programs can be happy or unhappy. So the bottom line is that you just need to do the things that you "think" will make you happy in life, no one will really know what make them happy or not unless they have gone through the experience, so if you really want to do medicine, then just do it!! 😀 I would take what other people say (including my own posts) with a grain of salt, and if you are turned off to medicine and decided to pursue something different because one resident told you that medicine sucks, then I can almost assure you that one day you will regret your decision (esp when you are working that 9-5 job, looking at a computer screen, making changes to the company budgets for the weekly meeting....) Even though you are working 40 hours per week, but that is 40 miserable hours (only my opinon 😀 ). And the one thing I learned in life is that you do not want to go through life with any regrets.....

Yes, with HMO and everything, your income as a doctor is going down..... but it still beats working a office for 40 hours. About the salary of the orthopod going down 30% from $350,000, that is still not bad making $230,000 per year.. 😀 . Orthopedics is an awesome career, and I would do it over and over again even if you paid me $100,000 per year. I can tell you that in medicine, you will never have to worry about job stability. You will always be employed and making at least a 6 figure salary. So how many people you know makes 6 figures?? Not everyone in business or other professions make 6 figures, but if they do, I don't envy them one bit because I would rather jump off a bridge than to do what they do day in and day out. 😀 And once again, if you are worrying about how much you are going to make as a doctor before going to medical school, then maybe medicine is not the right career for you. And for the SND people looking through this forum, please do not bring up how doctors are underpaid and how the reimbursements suck in medicine during your interview.... that would be a quick way to get on the wait list or the rejection list. 🙂
 
kristy117 said:
geez, no need to act like that. hes just telling you how he feels. ive honestly not met a doctor that doesnt regret going into medicine..of course this isn't going to change our minds, and yes we are "inexperienced"

kristy117? Could that be a Halo reference?
 
Thanks for another awesome post Wahoos 👍.
 
Justin4563 said:
this is my altruistic advice to all pre meds out there.. from the bottom of my heart.. really.. consider doing someting else... I just finished my residency and I cannot tell you how badly i want the last ten years of my life back. They have been the absolutely the worst years of my life. I have seen the worst of humanity the greed the dissention the back stabbing. The sheer lack of respect for fellow human beings. The loneliness of studying, the long hours, lack of sleep lack of respect among colleagues and everyone. and it does not end. it gets worse. and it does not even pay.. did you hear that.. The insurers dont even respect you enough for all that you have been through, and given up in your life to respect you enough to pay you for what youve been through.. You will make a whopping 90-100 k per year if you choose a primary care field. and if you are lucky can double that if you bust your ass in a surgical subspecialty... plus the health risks, the amount of money that is owed, if any of you say.. its not the money.. you will seee.. you will see what i mean..

I'm an anesthesiologist eight years outta residency. The educational process, although arduous and ate up my second decade on this planet, exposed me to people, places, and situations that I could not have experienced had I not taken this route. Not all were good experiences, but many were. By investing in myself instead of a company, I'll always have a job somewhere, even if the bottom falls out of medicine. Contrast that to airline pilots with twenty years seniority with their airline who could be out on the street tomorrow if their carrier goes bottom up (i.e. Pan Am, Braniff, People's Express, etc etc). I came from an airline family so not pursuing that career path was a difficult decision, but a good one in light of the industry today. I still love to fly but my living is not dependent on it and I don't sleep out of a suitcase in a hotel 10-15 days a month.
I initially took a job with a group in a small town where the money was great but the lifestyle/area was not, but it enabled me to pay off all my loans (200k) in five years and put a buncha money in the bank.
Now I live in the city where I want (well..I live in the city where my boss..aka wife...wants, which is almost as good). I have no financial worries and the other docs and I have worked our schedule out so we work 2 weeks of days, a week of nights, and a week off.
I take care of patients every day in an air conditioned operating room, I have night call one week out of four, one weekend out of four, and I get 13 weeks vacation annually. I don't know many other professions that could offer me the level of cerebral stimulation/income/lifestyle offered to me as a result of my large sacrifices during my twenties.
Could be much, much worse.
 
wahoos, your insight is always a refreshing and welcome sight here.

I am so glad you posted what you did.

As per the person that claimed their marriage fell apart because of med school.........

Maybe that was your experience, but I've had many many family friends that have gone through medical school and residency, who've been married at the time of doing so.

I've also known several people from USF COM who've been married and in med school.

At no point have their spouses turned away from them. In fact, their spouses have been very very supportive.

If your spouse was not strong enough to stick by your side, then perhaps they didn't care for you enough to do so. I don't know the situation that ensued, but I do know that not all spouses are that way.

When two people get married they take vows that say for better or for worse, and those that are truly meant to be are people who can stick through the good times and rough times. I should also mention that some of these people have had children when in med school and still made it through with their spouses.

So I don't think this is always the case.
 
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2805381#post2805381

I just realized that I made a minor mistake. I was reading the thread that I told you I'd link here. The one where people were discussing whether they'd do it over again, and thought I read it in this thread cuz I had this one open at the same time. So disregard that thing about divorce that I mentioned. That was supposed to be meant for the thread I linked above.

But for those of you insterested, this is what residents and med students have said about their feelings towards whether or not they'd do it over again.
 
Justin is posting in the Anestesiology forum claiming he is an attending... :laugh:
 
Great post woo. I think anyone going into medicine knows that residency is going to be brutal. However, in the end most will think it to be worth it. Justin, your post was unnecessary. Don't tell others not to go into medicine just because of your limited experiences.
 
Law2Doc said:
Yes, the take home message here is not that medicine stinks as a profession, but that you ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY need to check the profession (any profession actually) out ahead of time and go into it with your eyes wide open. Don't have any unrealistic expectations based on perceived prestige, glamour, lifestyle or stuff you see on TV or in movies. Don't expect a story book life or career. Shadow doctors, really talk to them, and truly find out what they like and dislike about their jobs and the training it took to get there. Ask a lot of them whether it is worth it or something they would do had they the opportunity to do it over again (you are sure to find people on both sides of the fence, but if you find you identify with some of them as people more than others it might help you). It is mostly those people like the OP that push forward without having a really good sense of what they are getting into (or go into medicine with priorities weighted toward things other than practicing medicine) who tend to end up whining on SDN after they goofed. Those who did the research won't, because they knew what they were getting into and tempered their expectations and hardened their resolve appropriately.

You are absolutely right. It's all about knowing what you're getting into. I know plenty of doctors who have told me that it's a bad idea to go into medicine. I worked for one who thought I was nuts for even thinking about applying. This, however, is because when she went into medicine, she thought she was getting into something completely different from what she ended up doing. She was planning to be a respected doctor of yesteryear, and instead ended up waging battle with insurance companies and always having to worry about the business side of her practice. Had she known this was what awaited her, she probably never would have chosen medicine as a career. On the flipside, I've known doctors who have encouraged me to go to medical school. Often, they are the ones who either ended up not having to deal with insurance companies (docs at Kaiser or nonprofits, such as Shriners Hospitals), and they're loving what they're doing, because medicine was everything they expected it to be. There were fewer nasty surprises.

Bottom line: if you've worked with doctors and other medical professionals in a clinical setting for any length of time, you know what you're getting into. Think about the job on the whole: the good parts, the bad parts, the annoying parts, and the parts that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Weigh all of these together. If you know in your heart that the good outweighs the bad, you hand in that AMCAS and you don't look back. If you're not so sure, take some more time to think about it. There's just no need to rush into such a long committment.
 
Wahoos, thank you for your great post. If the OP came here and presented his points like this instead of the "sky is falling" method I don't think anyone would have flamed him.
 
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