please help! impact of failing a preclinical course

[abrokemdphd]

Hi!
I'm an MS2 MD-PhD student and I failed my cardio block after submitting a feedback form late which trigged an automatic fail according to our syllabus. I've been having a really rough year navigating end of life care for a family member so I've been a little distracted from school, however I've since worked with my program director and academic success to develop a system that will help me stay on top of deadlines even in times of high stress. I passed the course final on the first attempt, but still failed as the assignment is a part of the professionalism standards. I understand how important professionalism is in medicine, and will do everything I can in the future to prevent something like this from happening again.

I'm just really worried about how this will impact my chances for residency matching. I'm primarily interested in EM and IM, and I'm from NYC so my dream is to end up back there (before this I aspired to be at a place like NY presbyterian, mount sinai, maimodes, kings county, etc. I have about ~5 years until my residency application since I'm doing a PhD, and would appreciate any tips as to how I can recover from this and still land a spot for residency.

Thank you all for your help! Please be honest but nice <3


Update: Since the time of this post my appeal was approved! Wahoo! Thank you all for your help! Leaving this up for anyone who might benefit from this in the future!

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[guytakingboards]

Sorry to hear you're going through a tough spot family-wise. That definitely weighs on school/work/life/etc...

I feel like I'm missing something here. If you passed the course on academic merits but got an auto-failure for turning a feedback form late, I feel like there's some accommodation that can be made. Particularly if your program director has been aware of your personal life difficulties. Have you discussed this with the course director, course committee members or academic dean? Schools aren't in the business of failing people due to personal difficulties. It's not like it makes any sense for you to re-take a course you passed academically.

To answer your question: if the failure stands it's obviously a black mark but not one that's insurmountable. It's not uncommon for people who've failed classes or even repeated entire years to go on to become board certified doctors. New York has a ton of programs, several of which are not particularly competitive relative to their field. A quick googling shows that Maimonides' current IM PGY3 class has zero American MD's. It's entirely FMG's, IMG's and DO's. I think if you managed P's for the rest of medical school you could probably match there.

Again though, if you haven't talked to your course director and/or academic dean I'd recommend starting there.

 

[Dral]

I agree with the above. If you fail one pre-clinical, I think you would still be able to match IM or EM in NYC.

You should be able to explain things the way you have here. It's a fail for turning something in late. It's not like you failed to master the material (presumably), lied, or cheated. However, it goes without saying to keep on top of everything meticulously from here on out.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The good news here is that no one is going to care about this when you're applying to residency. It will be far in the past, you'll have S1/S2 done, your PhD, and your clinical grades. Perhaps tip-top programs may care, but I think that if you explain the circumstances then they too may not care at all. Fix the issue, don't let it happen again, and move on.

But you need to be very careful moving forward. As an MD / PhD student you're getting a full tuition scholarship, probably worth at least $60-70K annually. Medical schools don't like paying that much for failure. You should check with your mentor, but more bumps like this might get you dismissed from the program -- and that would be a big negative.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The good news here is that no one is going to care about this when you're applying to residency. It will be far in the past, you'll have S1/S2 done, your PhD, and your clinical grades. Perhaps tip-top programs may care, but I think that if you explain the circumstances then they too may not care at all. Fix the issue, don't let it happen again, and move on.

But you need to be very careful moving forward. As an MD / PhD student you're getting a full tuition scholarship, probably worth at least $60-70K annually. Medical schools don't like paying that much for failure. You should check with your mentor, but more bumps like this might get you dismissed from the program -- and that would be a big negative.

I’m obviously not questioning the validity of this given that you are a PD but how is it possible in specialties like ent, neurosurgery, plastics etc in which there are tons of applicants with perfect resumes that don’t match that a black mark like a course failure wouldn’t hurt?

 

[DarkBluMage]

I’m obviously not questioning the validity of this given that you are a PD but how is it possible in specialties like ent, neurosurgery, plastics etc in which there are tons of applicants with perfect resumes that don’t match that a black mark like a course failure wouldn’t hurt?

I heard alot of PD’s aren’t really too concerned with preclinical performance and care more about clinicals/LORs/Board scores. Idk if that’s correct or not though.

 

[Dral]

Programs could start to look at preclinical more since step 1 is now p/f. I'm not saying that does or will happen, but it's a consideration. With that said, I still don't think a fail in a single preclinical course will make a huge difference. Don't forget that people with perfect resumes/apps can totally flop during their interview. The app gets you the interview spot, the interview gets the residency spot. Of course an app is still considered with the interview, but you get what I'm saying. The question becomes 'How big of a fail (class, 2 classes, year) during preclinical gets an app totally overlooked by most everyone per specialty?'.

 

[guytakingboards]

I’m obviously not questioning the validity of this given that you are a PD but how is it possible in specialties like ent, neurosurgery, plastics etc in which there are tons of applicants with perfect resumes that don’t match that a black mark like a course failure wouldn’t hurt?

The OP specified EM and IM. My, and I'm assuming the other, replies were in response to the OP's fitness for those fields in particular. A course failure would be a lot more limiting for smaller/more competitive fields like the ones you've listed.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I’m obviously not questioning the validity of this given that you are a PD but how is it possible in specialties like ent, neurosurgery, plastics etc in which there are tons of applicants with perfect resumes that don’t match that a black mark like a course failure wouldn’t hurt?

The OP specified EM and IM. My, and I'm assuming the other, replies were in response to the OP's fitness for those fields in particular. A course failure would be a lot more limiting for smaller/more competitive fields like the ones you've listed.

Yes, I was riffing off of their stated interest in IM and EM. If applying for one of the uber-competitive fields, then this may play a bigger role.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

I'm no PD, but I imagine this blemish would have even less impact than most folks as you'd also have your application strengthened by a PhD. If you're performing your best from here on out, kill it during rotations and Step 2, I'm sure you'd be fine.

Have you had discussions with your dean about potentially having this fail removed since you did academically well in the course and it came down to a singular item (in the context of your personal situation)?

 

[abrokemdphd]

Update: Since the time of this post my appeal was approved! Wahoo! Thank you all for your help! Leaving this up for anyone who might benefit from this in the future!