Please help me

[tejareddy]

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Hi everbody,
I am in the midst of a great dilemma, I would greatly appreciate it if some one can guide me.
I have signed for a transitional year with a hope of going to the 2007 Match and finding a categorical position. But, the program I have signed for has given me the schedule with a vacation in August and when I contacted them saying that it is very important for me to have vacation in OCT or NOV or DEC or JAN so that I can attend the interviews for my categarical position, they denied it saying that once the schedule is made it cannot be changed? What can I do now? They will not even give me leave in those months as I am working in busy floors and Telemetry? How can I attend the interviews? I am seriously considering not joining the program at all. Any suggestions? Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Tejar

 

[Bobblehead]

You can always find someone to cover you for interviews. You don't need the ENTIRE month off to go to interviews. Ask yourself, would you want to hire someone who didn't honor their contract from their last job?

 

[tejareddy]

You can always find someone to cover you for interviews. You don't need the ENTIRE month off to go to interviews. Ask yourself, would you want to hire someone who didn't honor their contract from their last job?

Thank you for your reply.
I understand that what you say is very logical. But I told them clearly that I do not have a PGY-2 position and so that a vacation in either oct/nov/dec/jan is very essential for me. Inspite of that they have scheduled my vacation for aug.
And how will the program I am applying to will know that I have done this. Could you please advise
Thank you.
Teja

 

[DRDARIA]

Thank you for your reply.
I understand that what you say is very logical. But what can I do if they are so mean, not having any concern for their residents. I told them clearly that I do not have a PGY-2 position and so that a vacation in either oct/nov/dec/jan is very essential for me. Inspite of that they have scheduled my vacation for september.
And how will the program I am applying to will know that I have done this? I have not accepted the position through NRMP. Could you please advise
Thank you.
Tejareddy

If you don't take the position, do you think you'll be able to find one by July? Any leads? Because unless you want to not do anything for a year, you will need other options?

Are you sure you've talked to everyone who can make that decision? Also, once you start, would there be any possibility of seeing if another resident will trade months with you? You might ask the PD if you are able to find another resident willing to switch with you, will he allow it. Hopefully you'll be able to find someone.

Good luck.

 

[spalatin]

Thank you for your reply.
I understand that what you say is very logical. But what can I do if they are so mean, not having any concern for their residents. I told them clearly that I do not have a PGY-2 position and so that a vacation in either oct/nov/dec/jan is very essential for me. Inspite of that they have scheduled my vacation for september.
And how will the program I am applying to will know that I have done this? I have not accepted the position through NRMP. Could you please advise
Thank you.
Tejareddy

Did you discuss this with them and did they agree before you signed your contract?

Are you applying to a categorical in the same specialty field?

 

[tejareddy]

Did you discuss this with them and did they agree before you signed your contract?

Are you applying to a categorical in the same specialty field?

This topic never came up before I signed the contract but I thought that they will definitely accomodate my vacation since they knew that I did not have a PGY-2 position.
I am applying for categorical in a different speciality.

 

[tejareddy]

If you don't take the position, do you think you'll be able to find one by July? Any leads? Because unless you want to not do anything for a year, you will need other options?

Are you sure you've talked to everyone who can make that decision? Also, once you start, would there be any possibility of seeing if another resident will trade months with you? You might ask the PD if you are able to find another resident willing to switch with you, will he allow it. Hopefully you'll be able to find someone.

Good luck.

Thank you for your reply. I havent talked to the PD but the chief resident says that its not possible to change the schedule and also that if I can, I should switch the whole schedule with some one willing but I cant just switch the vacation. Do you think I should speak to the PD?
PLease advise.
Sincerely,
Tejareddy

 

[Doc Samson]

Thank you for your reply. I havent talked to the PD but the chief resident (the one who prepared the schedule) says that its not possible to change the schedule and also that if I can,I should switch the whole schedule with some one willing but I cant just switch the vacation. Do you think I should speak to the PD? wont that hurt the Chiefs and wont their grudge against me become a problem for me once I am in the program?
PLease advise.
Sincerely,
Tejareddy

When you say that the chief resident made the schedule, who do you mean? This year's chief (who'll be gone by the time you get there), or next year's (which might pose more of a dilemma). Schedules can be changed, it's just more work.

 

[3dtp]

Thank you for your reply. I havent talked to the PD but the chief resident (the one who prepared the schedule) says that its not possible to change the schedule and also that if I can,I should switch the whole schedule with some one willing but I cant just switch the vacation. Do you think I should speak to the PD? wont that hurt the Chiefs and wont their grudge against me become a problem for me once I am in the program?
PLease advise.
Sincerely,
Tejareddy

It sounds like the chief is lazy. It is also possible that you have uncovered severe dysplasia or even carcinoma in situ. Hopefully the former, but until the biopsy you never know.

Talk to the PD in advance. Phrase your concerns in such a way that it won't reflect on the chief. The year is still two months away and they say they can't fix a problem this far out? Please be careful, but do approach the PD. For now, just assume the chief is lazy, but the PD did pick the chief. Some pick them in their image, others pick them in alphabetical order with no thought to their attributes and leadership abilities.

Simply state the facts, saying that you have received your schedule, have significant concerns about it and why, just like you did here. Do not say anything about the chief except as a direct response to questions and be as tactful and diplomatic as you can.

When you talk to the PD, acknowledge the situation, accept the schedule as written, and inform them of your need to be out interviewing, how much time away each interview will require, including travel time and how will we be able to accomodate your needs? Be prepared to propose a solution such as, I will likely be interviewing in California and Florida which might take 3 days to do, so if I were to need a Friday-Monday or say a Sunday-Tuesday time, how could I do this without disrupting the program schedules given that I have this schedule? What can we do together proactively to make sure that our mutual needs are met?

Once you have an answer, and you are satisfied with it, then immediately write a memo, expressing your understanding of the situation, and send it to the program director, keeping copies for yourself and requesting a written response if you have misunderstood. That way you're covered.

If you can't arrive at a solution, then quietly, quietly look around to see if you can come up with something better.

Good luck.

 

[Blade28]

As has already been stated, you don't need an entire month off to interview (unlike during med school). A few days here and there will suffice - talk to your fellow residents who will be working with you during the interview months, people are used to this and will cover for each other.

If you decide not to go to this program, what other options do you have?

 

[tejareddy]

When you say that the chief resident made the schedule, who do you mean? This year's chief (who'll be gone by the time you get there), or next year's (which might pose more of a dilemma). Schedules can be changed, it's just more work.

Next year's chief. and he says its not possible.

 

[tejareddy]

As has already been stated, you don't need an entire month off to interview (unlike during med school). A few days here and there will suffice - talk to your fellow residents who will be working with you during the interview months, people are used to this and will cover for each other.

If you decide not to go to this program, what other options do you have?

The only option is for me to wait till next year, mean while I will try and find if I can do nsome research work.

 

[8744]

Hi everbody,
I am in the midst of a great dilemma, I would greatly appreciate it if some one can guide me.
I have signed for a prelim (IM) position this year with a hope of going to the 2007 Match and finding a categorical position. But, the program I have signed for has given me the schedule with a vacation in August and when I contacted them saying that it is very important for me to have vacation in OCT or NOV or DEC or JAN so that I can attend the interviews for my categarical position, they denied it saying that once the schedule is made it cannot be changed? What can I do now? They will not even give me leave in those months as I am working in busy floors and Telemetry? How can I attend the interviews? I am seriously considering not joining the program at all. Any suggestions? Will the program take any action on me for not honouring the contract? If any one of you know any thing about this issue please let me know. Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Tejareddy

Oh man. I had the same problem this year but to be fair to my PD I did match into a categorical specialty and changed my mind after a month.

Agree with everything the previous poster has said about tact and good manners. However, your program has got to know that you will need to interview. Tell them that you will schedule all of your interviews in January if that will help them adjust the schedule. Surely you have one or two outpatient rotations or light call months even in an IM program where you might interview. But be prepared to go up the chain of command and put up a big stink if necessary. If you don't interview, you won't match and then you wil be screwed simply because somebody was too lazy to rework a little scheduling.

I hope your program isn't malignant. It just seems odd that they wouldn't anticipate your need to interview.

Now is the time to address this problem, by the way, not in December like I had to do after having been given vague assurances that I would get the time to interview.

 

[eyestar]

Oh my! I can't believe the no. of response to this post since yesterday and some are really bad advices. So reason to listen to mine:
I was in a similar position, having not matched to ophtho 2 yrs ago with only a transitional yr. My transitional program flat out refused to change my schedule or give me any leave in Nov/december. I managed to go for 10 interviews and matched. So listen up-

1) Your decision to not sign the contract and lose the prelim is REALLY BAD- I know people say it really doesn't matter if you do a research yr or prelim yr first, but I disagree. Doing a prelim year first while applying for categorical shows the interviewers that another hospital picked u, and you are doing clinical work without any problems-it helps even if you are going into radiology. Also, spots for PGY2 in your categorical may open up giving you the edge to join right away-whereas if you do research you don't have the option.
Now the only exception to this if ur research is with a well-known, i mean BIG well known program in your field to make a difference in your application. Also, what is the categorical u r applying for? I can give you more advice.

2) To lose this prelim and search for another prelim by this july--? i don't know, are there any prelim left??

3) The way i did it-i had telemetry in december, i talked to all of my transitional colleagues and begged them, even the categorical medicine interns and one of them agreed to switch their ER for tele, so i took ER and had my shifts changed to go for interviews.

4) In most programs, the chief in IM makes the schedule for the prelim interns, mostly a random assignment-but they should have asked you when you prefer your vacation time-it is not possible for them to accomodate everybody-for ex, preference goes to pregnant intern who needs an easier rotation in december for delivery (i know its not fair) and fellow interns will make up crazy excuses to get time off during christmas-so your reason to match for categorical is not really their worry. That doesn't mean you don't work for them, refusing the contract. I am assuming your specialty requires a prelim any way.

5)Asking your chief resident to change it will not happen. They get requests like this from everyone so ignore them once a schedule is made. So my advice
try to get a mutual switch by talking to an intern and bring the intern with you to talk to your PD. But don't be demanding and argumentative-they can really screw you later in the yr, by giving tougher calls etc. Try to talk to your new interns thru e-mail first or during orientation.

Worst case, don't take any leave now and during interview time, take couple of sick days or work it with your team on tele internally without making a big deal or letting your PD know about it.

 

[spalatin]

Oh my! I can't believe the no. of response to this post since yesterday and some are really bad advices. So reason to listen to mine:
I was in a similar position, having not matched to ophtho 2 yrs ago with only a transitional yr. My transitional program flat out refused to change my schedule or give me any leave in Nov/december. I managed to go for 10 interviews and matched. So listen up-

1) Your decision to not sign the contract and lose the prelim is REALLY BAD- I know people say it really doesn't matter if you do a research yr or prelim yr first, but I disagree. Doing a prelim year first while applying for categorical shows the interviewers that another hospital picked u, and you are doing clinical work without any problems-it helps even if you are going into radiology. Also, spots for PGY2 in your categorical may open up giving you the edge to join right away-whereas if you do research you don't have the option.
Now the only exception to this if ur research is with a well-known, i mean BIG well known program in your field to make a difference in your application. Also, what is the categorical u r applying for? I can give you more advice.

2) To lose this prelim and search for another prelim by this july--? i don't know, are there any prelim left??


3) The way i did it-i had telemetry in december, i talked to all of my transitional colleagues and begged them, even the categorical medicine interns and one of them agreed to switch their ER for tele, so i took ER and had my shifts changed to go for interviews.

4) In most programs, the chief in IM makes the schedule for the prelim interns, mostly a random assignment-but they should have asked you when you prefer your vacation time-it is not possible for them to accomodate everybody-for ex, preference goes to pregnant intern who needs an easier rotation in december for delivery (i know its not fair) and fellow interns will make up crazy excuses to get time off during christmas-so your reason to match for categorical is not really their worry. That doesn't mean you don't work for them, refusing the contract. I am assuming your specialty requires a prelim any way.

5)Asking your chief resident to change it will not happen. They get requests like this from everyone so ignore them once a schedule is made. So my advice
try to get a mutual switch by talking to an intern and bring the intern with you to talk to your PD. But don't be demanding and argumentative-they can really screw you later in the yr, by giving tougher calls etc. Try to talk to your new interns thru e-mail first or during orientation.

Worst case, don't take any leave now and during interview time, take couple of sick days or work it with your team on tele internally without making a big deal or letting your PD know about it.

Agree with all of this. I hate being dishonest with programs but programs aren't honest with us, either. You should go with the program you have in hand unless another appears out of the blue that's better than this one.

A PD told me that once you've completed an intern year, you are a "proven commodity" and have what it takes to move on. So, don't give up a position in hand.

If your specialty does not require a prelim year, and a position opens up while you are doing your internship year, you can take it and move on. This sometimes happens when people leave programs or programs get approval for more spots. Remember it is always easier to get a job when you have a job than to be unemployed and looking.

Pay special attention to point 5 -- They can really screw you in many ways and the biggest is not harsh call or working conditions. You will need a PD LOR. Keep this in mind, and play nice with them, even if they are bullies and meanies.