Please help with residency rank list

[DaBigDawg]

MS 4 interested in cardiology. With that in mind, I would appreciate thoughts about how these programs should be ranked on my residency rank list:

Mayo
WashU
Emory
UAB
Cornell
UPenn
UW
BID
Michingan
University of Chicago
Northwestern
UCLA
UCSD

Thanks

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[P Diddy]

i can only give you a ranking based on the perceived reputation of these programs in cardiology circles. another important factor that I have little information about is the number of internal candidates these programs take for their fellowships. for example, UAB has a great cards program and if they reserve half of their slots for internal candidates, that would make the program more attractive to potential cardiologists. aside from the whole alabama thing.

UPenn
Cornell
UW
UCLA
University of Chicago
WashU
BID
Michigan
Emory
Mayo
Northwestern
UCSD
UAB

 

[Dr. Corday]

UPenn
Cornell
UW
UCLA
University of Chicago
WashU
BID
Michigan
Emory
Mayo
Northwestern
UCSD
UAB

I'm also a fourth thinking about cards (and also onc). I'm just curious why you put Mayo and Wash U so far down?

 

[P Diddy]

I'm also a fourth thinking about cards (and also onc). I'm just curious why you put Mayo and Wash U so far down?

probably because I'm more familiar with west coast programs and their fellowship match lists. while mayo and wash U are great training programs, I didn't get the sense that they sent many people to outstanding cardiology fellowships apart from their home institution. check out Penn's cardiology match list online. UCLA matched 9/9 cards last year, though not all were great programs.

p diddy

 

[TheOneTwo]

I disagree with P Diddy about Mayo. Don't know much about Wash U. I'm also interested in cardiology and Mayo is high on my rank list. Mayo has matched people over the past few years at Mayo, Barnes-Jewish (WashU), Texas Heart, Cleveland Clinic, Cornell, Emory, Hopkins, William Beaumont, etc. Among the top 15 ranked cardio programs per US News, Mayo residents have historically at 8, including all of the top 3. I admit that they may not be as likely to match at MGH, BWH, etc. but I would say that Mayo's list is probably stronger nationally than UCLA and many other programs that may be much harder to get into (usually because of people competing over being in a nice location like NYC).

My feeling is that you need to take Mayo's info with a grain of salt. First, they have many international medical grads with amazing credentials. These people might have a harder time matching in cardiology than US grads (I'm not sure if difficulties are the same for them at the fellowship level).

Also, Mayo gets strong people from all over the country. I spoke to a few of the residents, and they seemed to include a combination of some who came to Mayo for the Mayo experience and for the training but who wanted to return home after finishing up and some who are looking for bigger things in academic medicine and care more about the name and reputation of their program.

 

[kingofhearts]

I am currently a first-year cardiology fellow at Wash U. I spent my residency here as well. Taken from a post I put up last year:

Institutions that Wash U residents have gone for cardiology fellowships in the last 4 years (by no means comprehensive):

Cards: Cleveland Clinic, UCSF, Duke, Texas Heart, UCLA, UTSW, UCSD, UAb, Tufts, William Beaumont, U Colorado, U Minnesota, Case Western Reserve and (of course) Wash U

I chose to stay here because we have a great cardiology program (top 10 in US News if that matters to you) with a full array of subspecialty fellowships. I was able to get interviews last year at other great programs such as Cleveland Clinic, Texas Heart, UTSW, U of M and Northwestern.

 

[P Diddy]

I am currently a first-year cardiology fellow at Wash U. I spent my residency here as well. Taken from a post I put up last year:

Institutions that Wash U residents have gone for cardiology fellowships in the last 4 years (by no means comprehensive):

Cards: Cleveland Clinic, UCSF, Duke, Texas Heart, UCLA, UTSW, UCSD, UAb, Tufts, William Beaumont, U Colorado, U Minnesota, Case Western Reserve and (of course) Wash U

I chose to stay here because we have a great cardiology program (top 10 in US News if that matters to you) with a full array of subspecialty fellowships. I was able to get interviews last year at other great programs such as Cleveland Clinic, Texas Heart, UTSW, U of M and Northwestern.

no doubt that mayo and wash u are great programs and do send their residents to great cardiology fellowships. I just think the programs I placed above wash u and mayo send more of their residents to great fellowships, and also offer a better chance overall for matching in cardiology. when I interviewed for fellowship last year I spoke to a wash u resident on the trail who didn't get great interviews, and neither did some of his classmates. this doesn't exclude one from getting a great cards fellowship when coming out of wash u, but I think you have a better shot at cards when coming from some other programs. also, see my previous comment on this thread about inbreeding. wash u seems to take a lot of their own, from what I know and from what KoH wrote, so that is a strong reason to go to wash u.

feel free to prove me wrong by posting mayo and wash u's match list in cards from the past few years and the number of applicants who didn't match.

p diddy

 

[DaBigDawg]

Does anyone know anything about University of Chicago's and Northwestern's cardiology departments or how competitive you will be for a cardiology fellowship if you come out of these two schools? Oh, and how about BID?

 

[Fermi]

feel free to prove me wrong by posting mayo and wash u's match list in cards from the past few years and the number of applicants who didn't match.p diddy

I was told at the Wash U interview that 16/16 matched cards last year. The list from the previous year shows Wash U(7), Tufts(1), U Rochester(1) Colorado(1), UTSW(1), Henry Ford(1), Pitt(1), Minnesota(1). The prior year shows Wash U(3), UCSF(1), Dartmouth(1), Tufts(1), UTSW(1), CCF(1), Louisville(1), Beaumont(1).

Mayo just gave us the list that is on their website, basically, which is over the past 6-7 years. Overall they cite 26% going into cards, which is a large % so I'd have to imagine they match just about everybody. Their match list is impressive, although it lacks MGH and UCSF. I think they place as well as anyone, especially given their location in the Midwest. It's right at tthe top of my rank list, along with Michigan which also has a pretty impressive cards match list.

 

[FrozenInMN]

I disagree with P Diddy about Mayo. Don't know much about Wash U. I'm also interested in cardiology and Mayo is high on my rank list. Mayo has matched people over the past few years at Mayo, Barnes-Jewish (WashU), Texas Heart, Cleveland Clinic, Cornell, Emory, Hopkins, William Beaumont, etc. Among the top 15 ranked cardio programs per US News, Mayo residents have historically at 8, including all of the top 3. I admit that they may not be as likely to match at MGH, BWH, etc. but I would say that Mayo's list is probably stronger nationally than UCLA and many other programs that may be much harder to get into (usually because of people competing over being in a nice location like NYC).

My feeling is that you need to take Mayo's info with a grain of salt. First, they have many international medical grads with amazing credentials. These people might have a harder time matching in cardiology than US grads (I'm not sure if difficulties are the same for them at the fellowship level).

Also, Mayo gets strong people from all over the country. I spoke to a few of the residents, and they seemed to include a combination of some who came to Mayo for the Mayo experience and for the training but who wanted to return home after finishing up and some who are looking for bigger things in academic medicine and care more about the name and reputation of their program.

I'm currently a Mayo 3rd year IM resident who matched in cards. Your assessment of Mayo is very accurate.

Cards Match For Class of 2006: (Everyone matched - smaller group of applicants than usual)
Mayo (6) 3 pre-match spots given for NIH/Clinical Investigator Track
Emory (2)
Texas Heart (1)
Dartmouth (1)
Albert Einstein NYC - not sure which one (1)
SLU (1)

Think maybe 2 or 3 did not get their first choice. Most apply to MW or east coast programs, so not sure about potential success for west coast match.

Not sure about previous classes but I will try to dig up.

 

[Dr. Corday]

Mayo (6) 3 pre-match spots given for NIH/Clinical Investigator Track
QUOTE]

6 into Mayo cards?! How many total does Mayo take for Cards?

And please check your inbox, I sent you a PM.

 

[FrozenInMN]

Mayo (6) 3 pre-match spots given for NIH/Clinical Investigator Track
QUOTE]

6 into Mayo cards?! How many total does Mayo take for Cards?

And please check your inbox, I sent you a PM.

Per FRIEDA, there are 8 cards spots available in the match each year. Depending on the year, there are research track (NIH/CI) slots available to Mayo residents as well. 3 research track slots for cards in one class is somewhat atypical as these CI slots can be used for any of the subspecialties.

 

[kingofhearts]

feel free to prove me wrong by posting mayo and wash u's match list in cards from the past few years and the number of applicants who didn't match.
p diddy

I have nothing to prove to you. What Fermi says is correct: all of the 16 residents who applied for cardiology last year matched into cardiology fellowships.

Did every one of our residents match at places such as the Cleveland Clinic, Texas Heart, Duke and UCSF last year? No. But residents from Wash U have been able to secure fellowships at these prestigious institutions.

Do I think that going to Wash U alone netted me good interviews? No. However, Wash U gave me the resources to get involved in cardiovascular research and network with nationally known cardiologists. I think this, more than anything else, helped me to interview where I did.

I don't know enough about the other residency programs that you ranked to judge them. What I do know is that Wash U gives its residents the tools to match at some of the most respected cardiology fellowship programs.

 

[P Diddy]

I have nothing to prove to you. What Fermi says is correct: all of the 16 residents who applied for cardiology last year matched into cardiology fellowships.

Did every one of our residents match at places such as the Cleveland Clinic, Texas Heart, Duke and UCSF last year? No. But residents from Wash U have been able to secure fellowships at these prestigious institutions.

Do I think that going to Wash U alone netted me good interviews? No. However, Wash U gave me the resources to get involved in cardiovascular research and network with nationally known cardiologists. I think this, more than anything else, helped me to interview where I did.

I don't know enough about the other residency programs that you ranked to judge them. What I do know is that Wash U gives its residents the tools to match at some of the most respected cardiology fellowship programs.

listen, dude, chill out a bit. i realize you have nothing to prove to me. perhaps I constructed that phrase a bit obtusely. what I wanted to write was 'my assumptions may be wrong, please post the match lists from the past few years for Wash U and Mayo so we can all see for ourselves.'

and in reality, that's the best answer to the OP's question. to have a better idea of how to rank those IM programs, it's essential to know where the residents match and how many don't. i ranked them loosely based on IM reputation, but that's a poor surrogate. it would be a great service if residents/fellows from the respective programs could post or PM their program's cards match lists over the past years for the original OP.

and for everyone the 'best' program will be different, based on individual preferences. some people may want to stay in the midwest for residency and beyond, and thus an IM program that primarily matches residents in the midwest won't be a drawback. some people want to be able to match at 'the top 3' cards programs, while some can't agree on the top 3 programs. some people would be happy to match at any program. depending upon what one wants in cards, one should determine whether the residency program one is considering matches to that expectation. that's hard to do without knowing where residents have matched recently, and when they haven't.

p diddy

 

[kingofhearts]

listen, dude, chill out a bit. i realize you have nothing to prove to me. perhaps I constructed that phrase a bit obtusely. what I wanted to write was 'my assumptions may be wrong, please post the match lists from the past few years for Wash U and Mayo so we can all see for ourselves.'

and in reality, that's the best answer to the OP's question. to have a better idea of how to rank those IM programs, it's essential to know where the residents match and how many don't. i ranked them loosely based on IM reputation, but that's a poor surrogate. it would be a great service if residents/fellows from the respective programs could post or PM their program's cards match lists over the past years for the original OP.

and for everyone the 'best' program will be different, based on individual preferences. some people may want to stay in the midwest for residency and beyond, and thus an IM program that primarily matches residents in the midwest won't be a drawback. some people want to be able to match at 'the top 3' cards programs, while some can't agree on the top 3 programs. some people would be happy to match at any program. depending upon what one wants in cards, one should determine whether the residency program one is considering matches to that expectation. that's hard to do without knowing where residents have matched recently, and when they haven't.

p diddy

Fair enough. I agree with you that previous match lists and regional locations are characteristics that cardiology-bound physicians should factor into their decision making. Clearly, differences do exist between these programs, and this is probably the best way to bring them out.

By the way, for any of you interested in the cardiology fellowship program at Wash U, I welcome any questions that you may have (private or posted).

 

[Wrigleyville]

Does anyone know anything about University of Chicago's and Northwestern's cardiology departments or how competitive you will be for a cardiology fellowship if you come out of these two schools? Oh, and how about BID?

Northwestern has a perfect record in matching residents into cardiology over the past 6 years (since the current residency director has been around -- I'm sure it was good before that as well, but I don't have data for you). Northwestern will make an effort to get you involved in meaningful research in any area you express interest in. I can't speak to other programs, but I'm sure UofC is tremendous as well.