Please I need help

[Josephine Baker]

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I am 39, with a 3.2 GPA from an IV League University. I have leadership experience and plenty of clinical and non clinical volunteering experience but no shadowing or research experience.
I know in my heart that I want to be a doctor. I always wanted to be, but life happened: illness: multiple surgeries, divorce, depression and things, but I am still standing and I want to accomplish my dream.
Can anyone advise me on a plan to follow? I am open to all options as long as I can reach my goals.
SMPs, Post bacs, regular masters, research, shadowing. What to do first etc..
I appreciate any help...God Bless.

 

[Blanky]

Have you taken the prereqs yet?
How many credits do you have total?
You are going to need to build a solid EC resume also so look into clinical experience and volunteering as well.

Shadowing should maybe be first if you dont have physical exposure to working physicians and what they do day to day.

 

[ucsdfootball]

Hi. Welcome. What follows is a generalized plan based on my own experience and in conversation with other non-trads I've met and/or who've mentored me along my journey. Take it with a grain of salt, as I've not yet gotten into medical school (I will apply next year) and am by no means a voice of authority. I did, however, walk away from a decade-long software engineering career and all the creature comforts that come with that so I kind of understand where you're coming from.

1. Take inventory of your life, make sure this is really what you want. Ask yourself why you want to be a doctor, then ask yourself why you want those specific things. Shadow doctors, but more importantly ask everyone you meet how they ended up at their job, whether they love it, and why. Also, make sure your finances are in order. The last thing you want is to have your dreams interrupted because of the unexpected forcing you back to work at levels that compromise your grades.
2. Find a place to take your classes. Community college isn't a bad option, but if you can find a formal postbacc for career changers then do that instead. Find more details on postbacc programs here: Postbaccalaureate Programs
3. Find a regular clinical gig. Make sure you're getting regular patient contact. Hospice work is great for this. Scribing is also good though that is more passive. Use VolunteerMatch - Where Volunteering Begins if you don't know where to start looking. If you're having trouble finding physicians to shadow (most premeds start with their primary care doctor or with family/church friends that are doctors before resorting to cold calling) then you can always ask whatever doctor you volunteer with if you can shadow for a week instead of being their scribe, admin assistant, whatever.
4. Unless you already come from a science/engineering background it's probably best to take classes slowly and then ramp up to the MCAT. I placed Biochem and Cell Bio during year 2 because they're all over the MCAT so in this way, you will learn it at a normal pace instead of being self-taught and basically, your studying for final exams would be a good chunk of your MCAT prep. Suggested timeline:
   • Year 1
     • Fall Semester: General Biology 1 + Lab, General Chemistry 1 + Lab
     • Spring Semester: General Biology 2 + Lab, General Chemistry 2 + Lab
     • Summer: Organic Chemistry 1 + Lab
   • Year 2
     • Fall Semester: Organic Chemistry 2 + Lab, Physics 1 + Lab, Cell Biology
     • Spring Semester: Physics 2 + Lab, Biochemistry, MCAT prep course
     • Summer: Take the MCAT in May or June and then apply to medical school by end of June
5. Research is not necessary unless you want to attend a research-heavy medical school like Harvard or UCSF. I don't have an active MSAR subscription (applicant data for all medical schools - https://apps.aamc.org/msar-ui/) but you should get one and look at what schools even accepted students over the age of 40. It's not many and from what I remember most of them are not so research focused. Unless this research is a natural extension of your prior career, I would probably just not bother.

Hope this is helpful. The best advice I ever received was from @DrMidlife who said that if you can see yourself happy doing anything other than medicine, for the love of God do that instead. But if you can't then definitely continue down this path. Best of luck to you.

 

[Blanky]

Strong and well written! @ucsdfootball

 

[curbsideconsult]

@ucsdfootball has laid it out quite nicely. I'd just like to add a few more things:

• If you haven't taken psych/soc in undergrad, you should take those classes as more and more med schools are requiring them. It's also good for MCAT prep too.
• I'm not an Ivy grad, but I would venture to guess that Ivy schools have very strong support for their alums so if I were you I would call up their pre-med dept and set up an appointment to talk about post-bacc stuff. I went to a state school and even there I had pretty good alum support so I can only imagine that Ivy support would be even better.
• It looks like you have your clinical and volunteering activities covered, but look over your volunteering activities and make sure they're down in the dirt service to the needy activities. For example, volunteering in the fundraising dept of homeless advocacy group is not as "good" as going out in sub-zero temps handing out blankets and jackets to people sleeping on the streets. Of course, if you've done both, even better 🙂
• I would like to reiterate ucsdfootball's advice about not needing research: you absolutely do not need it as a non-trad switching careers in your 30s so don't go stressing out about trying to get research.
• You absolutely must apply to DO programs if you're not already thinking of doing so. To that end, you need to find a DO to shadow because many DO schools require a DO letter. A lot of SDNers say you need like 100+ hours to shadow. This is so not true. About 50 hours will suffice.

 

[Josephine Baker]

Have you taken the prereqs yet?
How many credits do you have total?
You are going to need to build a solid EC resume also so look into clinical experience and volunteering as well.

Shadowing should maybe be first if you dont have physical exposure to working physicians and what they do day to day.

Thank you for reply.
I have a Bachelor in Neuroscience and Behavior from an Ivy League University (I am mentioning not to brag but just to see if it plays any role at all). I have been volunteering for more than 2 years in hospital. So far I have done about 11 rotations from surgery, emergency, ambulatory care, escort etc..
Will any of this count as clinical experience?

 

[Blanky]

Same major as me 🙂 I really enjoyed it!
Volunteering is going to look awesome!
By rotations you mean shadowing? That's also going to look good.
My degree requires the med school prereqs and biochemistry/ genetics so assuming you have those?

I think you should avoid doing a masters or SMP if you can.
Do a post bac 20-30 credits of upper level science courses and get a 3.7+ gpa in them.
Study and get a decent/strong MCAT score. Are you open to the idea of DO?.

 

[Josephine Baker]

Hi. Welcome. What follows is a generalized plan based on my own experience and in conversation with other non-trads I've met and/or who've mentored me along my journey. Take it with a grain of salt, as I've not yet gotten into medical school (I will apply next year) and am by no means a voice of authority. I did, however, walk away from a decade-long software engineering career and all the creature comforts that come with that so I kind of understand where you're coming from.

1. Take inventory of your life, make sure this is really what you want. Ask yourself why you want to be a doctor, then ask yourself why you want those specific things. Shadow doctors, but more importantly ask everyone you meet how they ended up at their job, whether they love it, and why. Also, make sure your finances are in order. The last thing you want is to have your dreams interrupted because of the unexpected forcing you back to work at levels that compromise your grades.
2. Find a place to take your classes. Community college isn't a bad option, but if you can find a formal postbacc for career changers then do that instead. Find more details on postbacc programs here:
3. Find a regular clinical gig. Make sure you're getting regular patient contact. Hospice work is great for this. Scribing is also good though that is more passive. Use if you don't know where to start looking. If you're having trouble finding physicians to shadow (most premeds start with their primary care doctor or with family/church friends that are doctors before resorting to cold calling) then you can always ask whatever doctor you volunteer with if you can shadow for a week instead of being their scribe, admin assistant, whatever.
4. Unless you already come from a science/engineering background it's probably best to take classes slowly and then ramp up to the MCAT. I placed Biochem and Cell Bio during year 2 because they're all over the MCAT so in this way, you will learn it at a normal pace instead of being self-taught and basically, your studying for final exams would be a good chunk of your MCAT prep. Suggested timeline:
   • Year 1
     • Fall Semester: General Biology 1 + Lab, General Chemistry 1 + Lab
     • Spring Semester: General Biology 2 + Lab, General Chemistry 2 + Lab
     • Summer: Organic Chemistry 1 + Lab
   • Year 2
     • Fall Semester: Organic Chemistry 2 + Lab, Physics 1 + Lab, Cell Biology
     • Spring Semester: Physics 2 + Lab, Biochemistry, MCAT prep course
     • Summer: Take the MCAT in May or June and then apply to medical school by end of June
5. Research is not necessary unless you want to attend a research-heavy medical school like Harvard or UCSF. I don't have an active MSAR subscription (applicant data for all medical schools - but you should get one and look at what schools even accepted students over the age of 40. It's not many and from what I remember most of them are not so research focused. Unless this research is a natural extension of your prior career, I would probably just not bother.

Hope this is helpful. The best advice I ever received was from @DrMidlife who said that if you can see yourself happy doing anything other than medicine, for the love of God do that instead. But if you can't then definitely continue down this path. Best of luck to you.

@ucsdfootball. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the advice and I am sorry that I didn't make myself more clear in my post. I have been a silent reader on this site for a while but this is the 1st time that I post. You would think I would have learn something.

I forgot to mention that I have a bachelor of Neuroscience and behavior and I did all my prerequisites but my GPA is low.

to answer your points:

1- I want to be a doctor. There is no doubt in my mind.

2-What's best in my case, a post bac or a master?

3- I will start with my PCP for shadowing; Can you do direct patient care without some kind of certification?

I really appreciate you taking the time to write.. I picture myself in various roles and the one that keeps coming back time and again is medicine.

4- I have a bachelor in neuroscience and behavior, albeit with a 3.2 GPA. Is this where the Postbac will be helpful?

5- I confused by your answer about research. I thought all applicants have to have some sort of research experience. Are there applicants that got in without having done research?

 

[Josephine Baker]

@ucsdfootball has laid it out quite nicely. I'd just like to add a few more things:

• If you haven't taken psych/soc in undergrad, you should take those classes as more and more med schools are requiring them. It's also good for MCAT prep too.
• I'm not an Ivy grad, but I would venture to guess that Ivy schools have very strong support for their alums so if I were you I would call up their pre-med dept and set up an appointment to talk about post-bacc stuff. I went to a state school and even there I had pretty good alum support so I can only imagine that Ivy support would be even better.
• It looks like you have your clinical and volunteering activities covered, but look over your volunteering activities and make sure they're down in the dirt service to the needy activities. For example, volunteering in the fundraising dept of homeless advocacy group is not as "good" as going out in sub-zero temps handing out blankets and jackets to people sleeping on the streets. Of course, if you've done both, even better 🙂
• I would like to reiterate ucsdfootball's advice about not needing research: you absolutely do not need it as a non-trad switching careers in your 30s so don't go stressing out about trying to get research.
• You absolutely must apply to DO programs if you're not already thinking of doing so. To that end, you need to find a DO to shadow because many DO schools require a DO letter. A lot of SDNers say you need like 100+ hours to shadow. This is so not true. About 50 hours will suffice.

@cursideconsult really thank you!
-I will definitely look into DO schools. Since my GPA is low, shall I retake the classes for DO or do a Postbac instead?

-I graduated in 2012 in Neurosciences and I have all my prerequisites and my school has a Postbac for those who have never taken prerequisites only.

-I am still surprised (happily) to hear that I don't have to do research to be a competitive candidate.

 

[Goro]

I am 39, with a 3.2 GPA from an IV League University. I have leadership experience and plenty of clinical and non clinical volunteering experience but no shadowing or research experience.
I know in my heart that I want to be a doctor. I always wanted to be, but life happened: illness: multiple surgeries, divorce, depression and things, but I am still standing and I want to accomplish my dream.
Can anyone advise me on a plan to follow? I am open to all options as long as I can reach my goals.
SMPs, Post bacs, regular masters, research, shadowing. What to do first etc..
I appreciate any help...God Bless.

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[curbsideconsult]

@cursideconsult really thank you!
-I will definitely look into DO schools. Since my GPA is low, shall I retake the classes for DO or do a Postbac instead?

-I graduated in 2012 in Neurosciences and I have all my prerequisites and my school has a Postbac for those who have never taken prerequisites only.

-I am still surprised (happily) to hear that I don't have to do research to be a competitive candidate.

Goro pretty much answered your question. Read through his advice carefully.

If you're going to retake some classes then you're more or less doing a post-bacc so I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Unless you're asking whether you should do a formal post-bacc or DIY. If that's the case, it's really up to you. Though if you need only to retake a few classes, then you might as well DIY those courses and save the money.

 

[Josephine Baker]

Same major as me 🙂 I really enjoyed it!
Volunteering is going to look awesome!
By rotations you mean shadowing? That's also going to look good.
My degree requires the med school prereqs and biochemistry/ genetics so assuming you have those?

I think you should avoid doing a masters or SMP if you can.
Do a post bac 20-30 credits of upper level science courses and get a 3.7+ gpa in them.
Study and get a decent/strong MCAT score. Are you open to the idea of DO?.

-Yes, I enjoyed Neurosciences but it destroyed my GPA!

-I love volunteering in general. Besides doing it in the hospital, I do it in my church, at the soup kitchen, tutoring kids, serving meals to HIV patients(but not in a hospital setting). Being doing that for over 10 years.

- By rotations I mean that in the surgery for instance, I observed surgeons performed various surgery. A cool one was 2 surgeons operations at the same time. One was doing a double mastectomy and reconstruction at the same time. The other removing the abdominal fat that will be used for the breast reconstruction. Absolutely awesome stuff! I also watch couple of angioplasty and stenting and Coronary artery bypass grafting. Can this qualify as shadowing?

-I have not taken genetics but I took Biochem
- I was thinking of starting a master in applied physiology in my university. I thought that since I was old, maybe having a graduate degree will help. So should I scratch that idea?
-I check the post bac link @ucsdfootball so kindly posted and most required MCAT, so I suppose I should start by taking the MCAT first then apply to a Postbac program?
-I don't mind the idea of DO per se. The only issue is that one of the reason I want to be a doctor is to be able to travel in disaster stricken countries and volunteer in underdeveloped countries. I am sure if DOs are able to practice all over the world.

 

[Josephine Baker]

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

Thank you so much..You are a Godsend!!!

 

[Blanky]

The grad program will not help your GPA, they will count them differently. If you take upper bachelors level science courses you will boost your GPA.

 

[Josephine Baker]

The grad program will not help your GPA, they will count them differently. If you take upper bachelors level science courses you will boost your GPA.

@Blanky ,I really appreciate your help. I went to the link @Goro sent me, and I am happily overwhelm with the sheer amount of information there. It's really incredible and humbling how much people are willing to help others.
I truly thank everyone for their time, effort and generosity.

 

[Blanky]

Helping others is what drives us here. Im sure you will help others as well.