Please list pre requsites needed for med school.

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cmedskool

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Hi,

I already have a BA. I plan on taking my pre-requisites at CC. However, based on medical school websites, such as Cornell and NYC. I don't seem to need many courses. So, I figure I'm approaching this wrong. In general, I know I need:

Chemistry 1
Biology 1
Physics
Calculus
Inorganic Chemistry
Organic Chemistry

Do I need any Anatomy/Physiology courses, Genetics or any other courses for most med school programs? How long would it take me to accomplish this track if I start during summer session?

My gpa is a 3.8 and I hope to raise it, by taking these courses to a 3.9. I'm pretty good at science. I took honors topic biology courses that normally required one taking intro bio courses and genetics, but I was able to take it without the background and had no problem (well not too many) and earned As.

I heard Inorganic Chemistry and Genetics are the devil. I would hope I can get away with only having to take one.
 
Chem 1/2
Bio 1/2
Physics 1/2
Orgo 1/2
(Some schools) Biochem for 3 credits (no lab)

Of course, with the new MCAT I believe you're going to need a (some?) sociology and psychology course or credit but you're going to have to check the schools you're interested in.

Genetics is not required although there are a handful of schools that require it, so again you're going to have to look up individual schools
 
Ah, I remember sophomore year in college I did a report in my sociology class about this very topic. Ugh, so psychology and sociology are on the MCAT I?

Is math not required? If so, one less course, but maybe I should take a cal course to brush up for physics, yea or nah?

That should take me two semesters to complete. Maybe I can test out of chem I or is that never an option. 'lol

Thanks for answering.
 
Just Call Me Doc said:
Depends on the school. Some require calc. So I'd take it to keep your options open,
Click to expand...

So true, it would help anyway with Physics and always keeping options open is never a bad thing.

I read on the left sidebar under your username that you're in med school. If you don't mind me asking, how hard was the MCAT I. It is a silly question, but I have taken my fair share of standardized test and I can't imagine anything more grueling and sickening than the LSAT. Mostly because you had to teach yourself a brand new skill set in a short time span, you either get it or you don't.

I was hoping, while equally challenging and grueling the MCAT would be different in the sense that everything on it can be memorized and conditioned into your head and theoretically many have been exposed to it for quite some time.
 
cmedskool said:
So true, it would help anyway with Physics and always keeping options open is never a bad thing.

I read on the left sidebar under your username that you're in med school. If you don't mind me asking, how hard was the MCAT I. It is a silly question, but I have taken my fair share of standardized test and I can't imagine anything more grueling and sickening than the LSAT. Mostly because you had to teach yourself a brand new skill set in a short time span, you either get it or you don't.

I was hoping, while equally challenging and grueling the MCAT would be different in the sense that everything on it can be memorized and conditioned into your head and theoretically many have been exposed to it for quite some time.
Click to expand...

The MCAT changed this year so I have no idea what the MCAT is like now nor have I taken the LSAT but the MCAT is very difficult and 3/4 people taking it score less than competitively. You need to beat out 75-80+% of test takers for a score that gives you a solid chance at admission which is not an easy task. It will take you ~3 months and significant work to accomplish this, regardless of your natural ability.

The MCAT may be more difficult than the LSAT in the sense that you need to absolutely master the classes I listed above before you can learn to apply it in the way the MCAT requires, so your focus should be on doing that first. I agree about taking Calc 1 if you haven't already, but I would also suggest thinking about taking Physics that doesn't require calc if you have the option. I'm all for challenging yourself but non-calc physics will take up significantly less of your time and you are learning for medical school-not engineering.
 
Take calc 1 as well as stats. Some schools require stats, and stats is very useful anyway.
 
doapplicant2015 said:
The MCAT changed this year so I have no idea what the MCAT is like now nor have I taken the LSAT but the MCAT is very difficult and 3/4 people taking it score less than competitively. You need to beat out 75-80+% of test takers for a score that gives you a solid chance at admission which is not an easy task. It will take you ~3 months and significant work to accomplish this, regardless of your natural ability.

The MCAT may be more difficult than the LSAT in the sense that you need to absolutely master the classes I listed above before you can learn to apply it in the way the MCAT requires, so your focus should be on doing that first. I agree about taking Calc 1 if you haven't already, but I would also suggest thinking about taking Physics that doesn't require calc if you have the option. I'm all for challenging yourself but non-calc physics will take up significantly less of your time and you are learning for medical school-not engineering.
Click to expand...

I never heard of a non-cal physics. I will look into that. I assume it is just a intro physics course for non majors. Thanks for the heads up. Less than 2/4 of applicants receive desirable scores this scares me, however, I heard similar lingo for the LSAT where the average score is 150s which is very low for most top 5o schools.

Thanks for the heads up about study time lengths.

If you don't mind me asking, as I inquire a lot, but type of doctor are you trying to be?
 
cmedskool said:
I never heard of a non-cal physics. I will look into that. I assume it is just a intro physics course for non majors. Thanks for the heads up. Less than 2/4 of applicants receive desirable scores this scares me, however, I heard similar lingo for the LSAT where the average score is 150s which is very low for most top 5o schools.

Thanks for the heads up about study time lengths.

If you don't mind me asking, as I inquire a lot, but type of doctor are you trying to be?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how your school does or will do it but I went to an engineering school where they had calc-based physics primarily for engineers and a non-calc based physics for non-engineers/everyone else. It wasn't an intro physics course or anything it was just toned down on the math side, although that may be rare, I don't know.

I'm just entering med school this summer and I'm interested in just about everything at the moment
 
I also have a BA and I'm currently completing an "unofficial" post-bacc pre-med program at a local university. They call "Pre-Health Professions Certificate" and require the following:
  • Bio I (with lab) and Bio II (with lab)
  • Gen Chem I (with lab) and Gen Chem II (with lab)
  • Orgo Chem I and Orgo Chem II
  • Orgo Chem Lab
  • Physics I (with lab) and Physics II (with lab)
  • Biochemistry**
  • Statistics-
  • Calculus-
  • Genetics**
  • Human Morphology & Physiology (with lab)**
  • Sociology*
  • Psychology*
*: Not currently required by med schools, but now included on the MCAT
**: Not required for med school or the MCAT
-: I've seen several med schools request 2 semesters of math. My "program" requires Calculus and Statistics specifically.

There's a strong probability that I'll be doing a Masters program while I apply to med schools, so I think some of these classes (Genetics, Human Morphology, Biochem) also satisfy the "upper level science courses" requirements I've seen on some program sites.
 
cmedskool said:
So true, it would help anyway with Physics and always keeping options open is never a bad thing.

I read on the left sidebar under your username that you're in med school. If you don't mind me asking, how hard was the MCAT I. It is a silly question, but I have taken my fair share of standardized test and I can't imagine anything more grueling and sickening than the LSAT. Mostly because you had to teach yourself a brand new skill set in a short time span, you either get it or you don't.

I was hoping, while equally challenging and grueling the MCAT would be different in the sense that everything on it can be memorized and conditioned into your head and theoretically many have been exposed to it for quite some time.
Click to expand...
The MCAT IS a bit of a bear. The difficulty is that you have to delve into a broad range of knowledge (more so with the new test) in a compressed amount of time. But keep in mind you're not studying for it in a short amount of time. If it takes you two semester to complete your pre-reqs, then you're spending at least 9 months studying already. Most, if not all, of what's in the MCAT covers what you should have already learned in all these classes, and if you have performed well in these classes (i.e. A's) then you have the ability to do well. The additional time you spend studying should refresh the information that's just little grown a little stale and shouldn't be new (unless you slept through classes). The other part is just learning the format of the test and practicing answering the questions at the relatively rapid pace the test requires.

I spent a year completing my post-bac, taking a year of bio and orgo. Then I spent a month reading a chemistry book cover to cover and a month reading a physic book cover to cover. During those two months I also took the practice test 3 or 4 times. Now, I don't necessarily endorse my MCAT study plan. Many people don't learn well just reading the text or benefit more from a more directed approach, and I should have added another month or two working on verbal reasoning, as well as reviewing bio and orgo a little more. But I had done well during my post-bac and still scored > 34 on the test.

Individual results may vary but it is doable. For now, focus on the pre-reqs and learn as much as you can in those classes. And keep in mind you'll need a lot of that information for the MCAT later on (i.e. no brain dumping post-final).

I would agree with @doapplicant2015 about taking non-calc based physics. Calc-based physics is not needed and there is a risk of dragging down your GPA.

BTW, some schools require a year of English, as well. Others also want some humanities. Hopefully, you already have some of that with your BA, but check individual schools to verify you're covered.
 
shannonigans said:
I also have a BA and I'm currently completing an "unofficial" post-bacc pre-med program at a local university. They call "Pre-Health Professions Certificate" and require the following:
  • Bio I (with lab) and Bio II (with lab)
  • Gen Chem I (with lab) and Gen Chem II (with lab)
  • Orgo Chem I and Orgo Chem II
  • Orgo Chem Lab
  • Physics I (with lab) and Physics II (with lab)
  • Biochemistry**
  • Statistics-
  • Calculus-
  • Genetics**
  • Human Morphology & Physiology (with lab)**
  • Sociology*
  • Psychology*
*: Not currently required by med schools, but now included on the MCAT
**: Not required for med school or the MCAT
-: I've seen several med schools request 2 semesters of math. My "program" requires Calculus and Statistics specifically.

There's a strong probability that I'll be doing a Masters program while I apply to med schools, so I think some of these classes (Genetics, Human Morphology, Biochem) also satisfy the "upper level science courses" requirements I've seen on some program sites.
Click to expand...

This sounds really awesome, but a lot of work, in the sense that I work full time so it would take me forever and a day to finish with all those courses. My only other insecurity is I'm 22 years old and while I think I'm young my family thinks spending another 2 years on non-degree education is a waste of time and I'll get the long speech about how I will be poor until my late 30s, if I pursue med school. It is amazing how family can really sway/hinder the experiences and risks one takes,
 
At some point you're going to need to sit down, make a list of all the schools you hope to apply to, and look up their admissions requirements. Some require a semester of math, some require a year, and a few require stats. I know one or two schools want cell and molecular biology. Others want a certain number of hours of humanities or social sciences. You'll have to weigh which schools you want to apply to versus how many more classes you want to take. Don't make the mistake I did of waiting until a few months before application to look up schools and realizing several of my choices were unavailable since I was missing a course or two. And don't waste time and money taking a class if none of the schools you want to apply to don't require it (unless you really want to take it).
 
@Just Call Me Doc "
Just Call Me Doc said:
And don't waste time and money taking a class if none of the schools you want to apply to don't require it (unless you really want to take it).
Click to expand...

SO TRUE. I'm constantly debating with myself if I should take some of the classes listed above if they're not really required. Will it look better to adcoms if I do? I think the only reason why I need to do them is because I will be doing a Masters program while I apply to med school. If I didn't need the "upper level" science courses, I would definitely be opting out.
 
cmedskool said:
This sounds really awesome, but a lot of work, in the sense that I work full time so it would take me forever and a day to finish with all those courses. My only other insecurity is I'm 22 years old and while I think I'm young my family thinks spending another 2 years on non-degree education is a waste of time and I'll get the long speech about how I will be poor until my late 30s, if I pursue med school. It is amazing how family can really sway/hinder the experiences and risks one takes,
Click to expand...
At some point you'll have to decide if you're a 22 y/o autonomous adult or not (and some people really are not ready to act as such). Truly LISTEN to your parents and understand where they're coming from. But at the end of the day you need to do what you believe is right and best for you based on all available information. Lord knows I've been on the tail end of many of these long speeches. Keep in mind, though, that this is advice from someone who STARTED this medical school adventure in his late 30's and will most likely be poor until his early fifties. But I'm good with that so I'm just going to keep rocking on! 🙂
 
Just Call Me Doc said:
At some point you're going to need to sit down, make a list of all the schools you hope to apply to, and look up their admissions requirements. Some require a semester of math, some require a year, and a few require stats. I know one or two schools want cell and molecular biology. Others want a certain number of hours of humanities or social sciences. You'll have to weigh which schools you want to apply to versus how many more classes you want to take. Don't make the mistake I did of waiting until a few months before application to look up schools and realizing several of my choices were unavailable since I was missing a course or two. And don't waste time and money taking a class if none of the schools you want to apply to don't require it (unless you really want to take it).
Click to expand...


So much truth in this post! I am going to do that tonight. I will not bite off more than I can chew. Non-degree courses are not the place to prove myself, but a means to an end.

My two top choices Cornell and NYUMC require just the basic courses I presented to you in my op, but I'll give them a call sometime soon and make sure I fully understand. Another choice of mine is Columbia, my aunt went there. I think I have a few family members on my dad's side that went to that school. It's a great school, but I think Cornell is my best bet for top school wise. I also don't mind going to a lower ranked school. There are a lot of good ones outside the city and in other parts of the country naturally.
 
Just Call Me Doc said:
Keep in mind, though, that this is advice from someone who STARTED this medical school adventure in his late 30's and will most likely be poor until his early fifties. But I'm good with that so I'm just going to keep rocking on! 🙂
Click to expand...

Woo hoo! Better late than never, right?
 
Just Call Me Doc said:
At some point you'll have to decide if you're a 22 y/o autonomous adult or not (and some people really are not ready to act as such). Truly LISTEN to your parents and understand where they're coming from. But at the end of the day you need to do what you believe is right and best for you based on all available information. Lord knows I've been on the tail end of many of these long speeches. Keep in mind, though, that this is advice from someone who STARTED this medical school adventure in his late 30's and will most likely be poor until his early fifties. But I'm good with that so I'm just going to keep rocking on! 🙂
Click to expand...

It is hard to be one of those people and I admire those who can. In light of the fact that I try really heard to make my family proud. I feel that if I don't do what my family says, my mom mainly, I am on the wrong path. I do understand that I cant just blindly do what my mom says career wise, because it literally burns me up to do something my heart isn't set into.

I need to be an independent adult and out my foot down. I'd rather try something and be wrong than to not try and wonder. The last thing I want is to be 45 looking to blame someone for not pursuing my interest only to find out I'm the one to blame and the people I want to point fingers at are dead.
 
shannonigans said:
@Just Call Me Doc "


SO TRUE. I'm constantly debating with myself if I should take some of the classes listed above if they're not really required. Will it look better to adcoms if I do? I think the only reason why I need to do them is because I will be doing a Masters program while I apply to med school. If I didn't need the "upper level" science courses, I would definitely be opting out.
Click to expand...
Since I do not have insight into admissions, I honestly don't really know. But from my observations during the past two years traversing through the application process, whether taking extra classes will look better to an adcom is a bit of a crap shoot. Is it POSSIBLE that they may look favorable on it? Sure. WILL they? Who knows. Some schools actually state they prefer certain extra courses so that may sway your decision. As a non-trad, though, the question is whether it's worth the time and money for the possibility of an extra brownie point. For an undergrad trying to fill up their course schedule, I'd say go for it. For a non-trad who has to pay the bills, I'd be much more hesitant. I'd personally rather spend that time pursuing an EC that helps to make me stand out in a crowded playing field (or paying said bills).

shannonigans said:
Woo hoo! Better late than never, right?
Click to expand...
Who says I'm late? I'm right WHERE I'm supposed to be, right WHEN I'm supposed to be. 😉
 
@cmedskool If it helps, I have a somewhat similar situation. I grew up in a household where it was straight As or nothing. Consequently, I felt my 3.9 GPA (high school- my college alma mater didn't have grades) meant I didn't have what it took to be a physician. I'm now 5 years since graduating with my BA and have tried cosmetology, theatre =, marketing, public relations, and social media. Due to my flip flopping (I prefer to see it as "exploring"), my parents are also so concerned that I won't "have my life together," be able to buy a house, etc. until I'm in my late 30s. It's a little scary some days when I realize that I suddenly managed to plan my life out for the next 10 years, but I do think this is the best career choice. It also helps that I have an incredibly supportive boyfriend/partner person and twin sister, and, even with their concerns, my parents are supportive (or, at least, they're tuning in to see if "this finally sticks").
 
shannonigans said:
@cmedskool If it helps, I have a somewhat similar situation. I grew up in a household where it was straight As or nothing. Consequently, I felt my 3.9 GPA (high school- my college alma mater didn't have grades) meant I didn't have what it took to be a physician. I'm now 5 years since graduating with my BA and have tried cosmetology, theatre =, marketing, public relations, and social media. Due to my flip flopping (I prefer to see it as "exploring"), my parents are also so concerned that I won't "have my life together," be able to buy a house, etc. until I'm in my late 30s. It's a little scary some days when I realize that I suddenly managed to plan my life out for the next 10 years, but I do think this is the best career choice. It also helps that I have an incredibly supportive boyfriend/partner person and twin sister, and, even with their concerns, my parents are supportive (or, at least, they're tuning in to see if "this finally sticks").
Click to expand...


Is it true that we wont have our lives together until mid 30s? I should be 28 when I graduate from med school. Ah, residency you get paid poop, this I almost forgot. Do they provide free housing to the residents? How do people fulfilling their residency make it another 3-4 years?
 
My mother's argument is that she doesnt' want to have to "take care" of a grown woman. I currently live rent free at my dad's apt. However, I don't want to fail my mother and when she says things like that it makes me think she doesn't believe in me and thinks I have bad judgement, which is hurtful.
 
cmedskool said:
Is it true that we wont have our lives together until mid 30s? I should be 28 when I graduate from med school. Ah, residency you get paid poop, this I almost forgot. Do they provide free housing to the residents? How do people fulfilling their residency make it another 3-4 years?
Click to expand...
Lol... the average residency salary is $55,000. No, they don't provide free housing to the residents but keep in mind a large percentage of the country's population is able to enjoy a relatively comfortable lifestyle making less than that. I actually bought a house when I was making about that much (though, granted, that was without a large student loan looming over me). When you happen to "get your life together" depends on you.
 
cmedskool said:
Is it true that we wont have our lives together until mid 30s? I should be 28 when I graduate from med school. Ah, residency you get paid poop, this I almost forgot. Do they provide free housing to the residents? How do people fulfilling their residency make it another 3-4 years?
Click to expand...

It looks like I'll have just turned 30 when I start med school and should be done with residency by the time I'm 37/38 (depending on the speciality). I've earned less than a resident's salary with student loans before starting my post-bacc and, while it was tight, it was definitely manageable. I've seen some perks of residencies include things like free food 24/7, an iPhone (and phone plan), etc. Also, I believe there is a cap to how much you can pay back in loans while you're a resident (I think it's $380?) in addition to income-based-repayment.

I'm so sorry your mom is questioning your judgment- I think my parents are also a bit perplexed and skeptical of my judgment due to my past decisions. However, whenever I try to point out how debt is inevitable, they refuse to believe me when I whip out stats (with their sources, mind you) about the increase of tuition, living expenses, etc. while salaries have remained stagnant since the 70s.

One bright side to all of this is that there is a bit of a movement led by residents to increase resident compensation: http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...n_training_are_organizing_for_collective.html
However, as the new federal budget proposal includes a decrease in funding to graduate medical education (GME), AMSA, etc. is more focused on preserving that funding and trying to expand the number of residency slots to accommodate the increase of medical school matriculants/graduates.
 
Last edited:
Just Call Me Doc said:
Lol... the average residency salary is $55,000. No, they don't provide free housing to the residents but keep in mind a large percentage of the country's population is able to enjoy a relatively comfortable lifestyle making less than that. I actually bought a house when I was making about that much (though, granted, that was without a large student loan looming over me). When you happen to "get your life together" depends on you.
Click to expand...

$55k isn't that bad. Hopefully they take into consideration cost of living. As nyc is a lot of money and $55k a year gets you nowhere in Manhattan, but I get over that hurdle once it comes.
 
shannonigans said:
It looks like I'll have just turned 30 when I start med school and should be done with residency by the time I'm 37/38 (depending on the speciality). I've earned less than a resident's salary with student loans before starting my post-bacc and, while it was tight, it was definitely manageable. I've seen some perks of residencies include things like free food 24/7, an iPhone (and phone plan), etc. Also, I believe there is a cap to how much you can pay back in loans while you're a resident (I think it's $380?) in addition to income-based-repayment.

I'm so sorry your mom is questioning your judgment- I think my parents are also a bit perplexed and skeptical of my judgment due to my past decisions. However, whenever I try to point out how debt is inevitable, they refuse to believe me when I whip out stats (with their sources, mind you) about the increase of tuition, living expenses, etc. while salaries have remained stagnant since the 70s.

One bright side to all of this is that there is a bit of a movement led by residents to increase resident compensation: http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...n_training_are_organizing_for_collective.html
However, as the new federal budget proposal includes a decrease in funding to graduate medical education (GME), AMSA, etc. is more focused on preserving that funding and trying to expand the number of residency slots to accommodate the increase of medical school matriculants/graduates.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! My mom is a driving force for me. One of my top priorities is to make her proud. It is my achillies heel. Even when I tell her how lucrative and rewarding a medical career is (not just monetarily) she still says it takes too long, you will be poor, just become lawyer! Yet, I tell her my heart isn't in it and I show her evidence that the legal market is about as lucrative as a dry well in the desert, yet she still persists.
 
@cmedskool My boyfriend is a lawyer- he loves the law and the field, but does not recommend it to someone who isn't passionate about it. I once had someone tell me a ton of their friends went to law school because they were bright and didn't know what to do with themselves after getting their BA. Consequently, they are miserable with their career opportunities and the debt they have. I do believe law school is a great opportunity for some people- however, it has become a saturated market (there's approximately 1 lawyer to every 300 people). I did consider it for a hot second as I like to argue and write, but when all is said and done, I don't find the constitution as fascinating as someone's open chest cavity. 🙂
 
shannonigans said:
@cmedskool My boyfriend is a lawyer- he loves the law and the field, but does not recommend it to someone who isn't passionate about it. I once had someone tell me a ton of their friends went to law school because they were bright and didn't know what to do with themselves after getting their BA. Consequently, they are miserable with their career opportunities and the debt they have. I do believe law school is a great opportunity for some people- however, it has become a saturated market (there's approximately 1 lawyer to every 300 people). I did consider it for a hot second as I like to argue and write, but when all is said and done, I don't find the constitution as fascinating as someone's open chest cavity. 🙂
Click to expand...


Ah, I'm glad your bf is happy. I never found one lawyer (even the ones making bank) who were happy. Then I had several lawyers tell me it is a nightmare to turn back and don't think twice about it. They were so miserable.
 
cmedskool said:
Nooooo stats is as exciting and pleasurable as a scraped knee!
Click to expand...


haha. Well, it doesn't change the fact that it is very useful and helps you under the measureable significance of research. It's becoming pretty much expected that you will have had stats. It's not bad if your professor is good and shows you how to apply it. I had a ScD. teach it to me, and he was good.
 
cmedskool said:
Thanks for the info! My mom is a driving force for me. One of my top priorities is to make her proud. It is my achillies heel. Even when I tell her how lucrative and rewarding a medical career is (not just monetarily) she still says it takes too long, you will be poor, just become lawyer! Yet, I tell her my heart isn't in it and I show her evidence that the legal market is about as lucrative as a dry well in the desert, yet she still persists.
Click to expand...

Making your mother proud, while sweet, should not be a top priority or driving force behind your decision to pursue medicine.

Why is it exactly your heart is in this?
 
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