Please, please, please don't go to NYU

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In your opinion is there a risk for at one point all of this collapsing and private dental schools closing? Let's take NYU for example, my guess is in say oh about 5-10 years that 620k is gonna reach about 800k if not more. Then let's keep going and say that dental salaries keep crashing and start reaching 100k-110k starting. I for one wouldn't go even if it was my only option at that point.
 
Franklo said:
In your opinion is there a risk for at one point all of this collapsing and private dental schools closing? Let's take NYU for example, my guess is in say oh about 5-10 years that 620k is gonna reach about 800k if not more. Then let's keep going and say that dental salaries keep crashing and start reaching 100k-110k starting. I for one wouldn't go even if it was my only option at that point.
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It's funny that you came up with such a doomsday scenario, when in reality, the current scenario (attending NYU dental) is already doomsday-y enough. If people aren't running for the hills at 620k, then I feel like you could whip students during lecture and they would still take it and attend.
 
Giovanotto said:
It's funny that you came up with such a doomsday scenario, when in reality, the current scenario (attending NYU dental) is already doomsday-y enough. If people aren't running for the hills at 620k, then I feel like you could whip students during lecture and they would still take it and attend.
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I actually specifically declined NYU after I found out how much it cost. So for me 600k is already wayyy over the line. I guess i'm just trying to find a place where I would imagine some people might start drawing the line.
 
Giovanotto said:
That place was/should be at 300k imo.
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I mean honestly even for me that's pushing it. Don't get me wrong I understand D-school is expensive but when you're pushing 2-3 times the starting salary in debt mehhhhh. If I hadn't had a way to finance it...wouldn't have done it.
 
kidsaremypassion said:
Judging simply by the 20k + views on this thread, I do think students are catching on. I'm no psychic, but I do think eventually enrollment at these private programs, not just NYU, will drop significantly, and competition for in state programs will likely increase.
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Right here. I told em nooooooooooooo
 
Franklo said:
I mean honestly even for me that's pushing it. Don't get me wrong I understand D-school is expensive but when you're pushing 2-3 times the starting salary in debt mehhhhh. If I hadn't had a way to finance it...wouldn't have done it.
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The sad part, is that even NYU used to cost like 52k in tuition back in 2008. Tuition is skyrocketing but dental salaries are not. Sad point in time for the profession to be sure.
 
Giovanotto said:
It's funny that you came up with such a doomsday scenario, when in reality, the current scenario (attending NYU dental) is already doomsday-y enough. If people aren't running for the hills at 620k, then I feel like you could whip students during lecture and they would still take it and attend.
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I guarantee some people would still go.
 
Lalibila said:
well yes, they'll still fill their class plus a ton more on the waiting list.
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Is it set and stone that dental salaries won't be increasing anymore? For the recent grad, that doesn't go into private practice, and most likely corporate.
 
AudiLova619 said:
Is it set and stone that dental salaries won't be increasing anymore? For the recent grad, that doesn't go into private practice, and most likely corporate.
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There’s way too many variables. My advice is to not listen too much to the doom and gloom (people who are unhappy are way more likely to post about it online than those who are happy) but also don’t look at ideal cases and think that’s normal. Dentistry is very stable as far as jobs go and the risk of the profession being eaten up by automatization is very low, so I wouldn’t worry about it
 
AudiLova619 said:
Is it set and stone that dental salaries won't be increasing anymore? For the recent grad, that doesn't go into private practice, and most likely corporate.
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From what I've seen with dentist clients, you can make a ton of money if you move somewhere really out of the way with low competition and decent wealth levels.

If you want to live in the big cities, my advice is don't be a dentist. One guy in LA told me "10 bad yelp reviews would close down my practice. That's how competitive it is here. We have to take every discount dental plan in existence or we won't survive."

I've had plenty of clients outside big metro areas making over $400,000. I've had others as practice owners making less than $150,000 with practice debt and high cost of living. Just know what you're getting into.
 
AudiLova619 said:
Is it set and stone that dental salaries won't be increasing anymore? For the recent grad, that doesn't go into private practice, and most likely corporate.
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What? Nobody dictates your own salary except yourself. Not relying on someone for a paycheck is one of the most quintessential points of entering the medical field
 
Alpha Centauri said:
What? Nobody dictates your own salary except yourself. Not relying on someone for a paycheck is one of the most quintessential points of entering the medical field
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I see, but for a recent grad with a lot of debt who wants to stay in NYC, you most likely have to take corporate job which dictates the salary.
 
aj30 said:
Wait-there are other places in America besides NYC and SoCal? I thought there was just this empty desert in between them...
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Well there’s redneck riviera..
 
Unless said family has some serious health issues or major ties to a certain area, it is sometimes a fact of life that to progress in one's career, one has to make moves, location wise.I have an engineer friend that helps support his extended family in Houston, bought a nice home for them to reside in, and got laid off last year. He ended up moving to Indiana , in order to earn a living to be able to support his extended family, back home in Texas. Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do. I wouldn't unnecessarily tie myself to one particular location because of "family."
 
Franklo said:
I mean honestly even for me that's pushing it. Don't get me wrong I understand D-school is expensive but when you're pushing 2-3 times the starting salary in debt mehhhhh. If I hadn't had a way to finance it...wouldn't have done it.
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If you want a straight answer I'll offer one up. If one of your main concerns are student loan debt, ROI, and/or earning potential you should go to a state dental school or one of the few favorable OOS schools. Can't get in? Don't go into dentistry. You're better off going MD, DO, PA, NP, CRNA, and even podiatry as far as healthcare careers are concerned heading into 2018. I'd advise against both pharmacy and optometry at the present moment. I'm not here to hate by any means. I wish things worked out and I was able to get into my state school. It is what it is though. If you're able to get in-state tuition, dentistry is a fantastic option still. OOS/private -- not so much.
 
Student Loan Planner said:
I'm getting concerned that clients and readers are telling me there's a staggering level of inaccurate statements being thrown around by one of the biggest dental schools out there, NYU.

Here's the truth, if you go to NYU, unless you have parental or spousal assistance or some kind of major scholarship, you will come out owing at least $550,000. I'm actually projecting closer to $620,000 for the class of 2021 because their cost of attendance does not include accrued interest while in school, grad plus origination fees, or tuition increases and cost of living inflation.

So if you go there, your monthly payments when you leave school to pay them back would be like $6000-$7000 a month, or around $80,000 a year. The average starting income of a dentist is somewhere between $120,000-$130,000, so your entire taxable income would have to go to loan payments if you ever hope to pay them back.

Of course you can plan on income driven repayment options to pay less on a present value basis, but why would you make that gamble? Go somewhere in state, or cheaper, or just don't be a dentist.

My alarm bells went off recently when someone told me that an administrator at the college told them that their average NYU dental grad pays back their loan in full within 7 years.

THIS IS ABSOLUTE CRAP if that was actually said. Perhaps that could be true if you average in the people coming out with 0 debt because their families are wealthy, but if you just isolate people who have to finance the education, that statement if it's being made is misleading at best and completely false at worst.

So buyer beware. If you want to go to a reasonable in state school and be a practice owner? Awesome dentistry is a good choice.

If you go to NYU dental, you should have been literally anything else besides becoming a dentist.

Just my two cents. I'm tired of hearing story after story from people who were told by NYU that they'll "pay it back in no time." That's total BS from people who have no clue what they're talking about if it's being said.
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I knew I can't afford to go NYU at this age (32) and take that amount of loan, and pay off before I retire...

I am planning on to move to other state, establish in state residency, and apply as in state.

Which school would you recommend? To non-traditional currently 32 yr old (will be most likely 34 when I get lucky to get in in 2019 cycle.

I learned IL has 2 reasonable priced in state schools (total 100 seats), and TX has 3 in state schools (total 300 seats).

Even though TX has more seats, it seems like tha stats are higher than IL schools.

My stats are not great. You might see my othe thread explaining in more details, but I have fine art backgound, has BFA (3.9/4.3)and got my second undergraduate BS in Biology (aGPA 3.3/4.0, sGPA 3.2). (I was acing with As, had baby in the middle of semester, lowered gpa, but my last semester was As again.) I did metal craft-metal smithing and jewelry making...

I currently, and have been working in a diabetes research lab past 4 yrs. 2 published papers (not first author) and more in progress.

Have lots of Volunteers hours and shadowing Hrs. (I can add more too).

I am aiming to get good DAT.


So if I am a decent shot, which in state schools are the best shot for the money? Which OOS schools are best shot for the money?

I completely agree that getting those loans, especially at my late age with two kids already, are not my option. I would be better off just start my phd in science and get a job out of it.

I currently earn 36k, which isn't much, but have great benefits. So I 'd be okay for living while I am applying.
 
queenki said:
I knew I can't afford to go NYU at this age (32) and take that amount of loan, and pay off before I retire...

I am planning on to move to other state, establish in state residency, and apply as in state.

Which school would you recommend? To non-traditional currently 32 yr old (will be most likely 34 when I get lucky to get in in 2019 cycle.

I learned IL has 2 reasonable priced in state schools (total 100 seats), and TX has 3 in state schools (total 300 seats).

Even though TX has more seats, it seems like tha stats are higher than IL schools.

My stats are not great. You might see my othe thread explaining in more details, but I have fine art backgound, has BFA (3.9/4.3)and got my second undergraduate BS in Biology (aGPA 3.3/4.0, sGPA 3.2). (I was acing with As, had baby in the middle of semester, lowered gpa, but my last semester was As again.) I did metal craft-metal smithing and jewelry making...

I currently, and have been working in a diabetes research lab past 4 yrs. 2 published papers (not first author) and more in progress.

Have lots of Volunteers hours and shadowing Hrs. (I can add more too).

I am aiming to get good DAT.


So if I am a decent shot, which in state schools are the best shot for the money? Which OOS schools are best shot for the money?

I completely agree that getting those loans, especially at my late age with two kids already, are not my option. I would be better off just start my phd in science and get a job out of it.

I currently earn 36k, which isn't much, but have great benefits. So I 'd be okay for living while I am applying.
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Expect to owe $300,000 to $500,000 in student loans coming out of dental school, regardless of where you go. If you don’t have good stats, you’re much more likely to end up at an expensive private school. I think uprooting your life to switch state residency just to help slightly - if at all - with admissions is a bit ridiculous. You’ll need to apply to 15-20 schools and this scheme will only possibly help at 1 or 2 or of those. And, realize that many state schools will allow you to switch to in state after your first year. Have you looked into becoming a nurse practitioner? It’ll be a cheaper route with a decent job in the end.

Big Hoss
 
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Big Time Hoosier said:
Expect to owe $300,000 to $500,000 in student loans coming out of dental school, regardless of where you go. If you don’t have good stats, you’re much more likely to end up at an expensive private school. I think uprooting your life to switch state residency just to help slightly - if at all - with admissions is a bit ridiculous. You’ll need to apply to 15-20 schools and this scheme will only possibly help at 1 or 2 or of those. And, realize that many state schools will allow you to switch to in state after your first year. Have you looked into becoming a nurse practitioner? It’ll be a cheaper route with a decent job in the end.

Big Hoss
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Going to expensive private school isn't my option. If I can't get into cheap public schools, I just can't go to dental school. That sucks but it is what it is.

Getting residency is to get better chance at getting into public school. Many of public school ONLY accept residents. That is why.

The school offers resident tuition after one year is mostly public school to begin with, which os same school that mostly accept resident to begin with. Number of OOS student who will benefit from getting resident tuition after one year is very few, and those students have higher stats than in state student in that school. (Getting into that public school as OOS is way harder than as IS, so that case doesn't apply to me, being already low gpa).

I wish I could afford provate school tuition. Tuition difference of 35000 vs 80000 per year ends up in 180000 difference in debt only from tuition. That is huge.

I know I have very small chance of getting into state school by only applying to state school. I might end up just getting phD in pharmacology and just end up in a industry job. Which some of my dentist friends recommend to me- while they are struggling with paying student loans back after going to NYU and TUFTS...
 
If 180K is the deciding factor in becoming a dentist or not then that also would mean your only applying 1 time cause that’s about the opportunity cost foregone by applying a second year if you don’t get in. Also, there are only a handful of schools that only accept in state students (ECU, Miss)
 
queenki said:
Going to expensive private school isn't my option. If I can't get into cheap public schools, I just can't go to dental school. That sucks but it is what it is.

Getting residency is to get better chance at getting into public school. Many of public school ONLY accept residents. That is why.

The school offers resident tuition after one year is mostly public school to begin with, which os same school that mostly accept resident to begin with. Number of OOS student who will benefit from getting resident tuition after one year is very few, and those students have higher stats than in state student in that school. (Getting into that public school as OOS is way harder than as IS, so that case doesn't apply to me, being already low gpa).

I wish I could afford provate school tuition. Tuition difference of 35000 vs 80000 per year ends up in 180000 difference in debt only from tuition. That is huge.

I know I have very small chance of getting into state school by only applying to state school. I might end up just getting phD in pharmacology and just end up in a industry job. Which some of my dentist friends recommend to me- while they are struggling with paying student loans back after going to NYU and TUFTS...
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With below average stats, you’ll have to apply very broadly. If you’re just going to apply to 2-3 in-state schools, you’re likely wasting your time and money. Also, a PhD is not all it’s cracked up to be.
The disposable academic

Big Hoss
 
Imagine someone told you that you just won 200k, without getting taxed, equivalent to earning 300k after taxes.
Normal people would take that and run.

Pre dents on the other hand worry me sometimes.
 
Whoa...just stumbled upon this thread & am shocked. I don’t know much about the dental side of things since I’m in medicine but the average debt after medical school for most is ~200k and I’m seeing crazy numbers compared to that. You dental people have it rough...kudos on taking that career path lol. But anyway, good luck to everyone pursuing health careers (and I’m gonna try and forget those numbers I saw since they made me cringe).
 
The only way I would ever reccomend going to NYU dental over any cheaper option is if you were super rich or planning on joining the military for student loan forgiveness. Its borderline exploitation that school charges that much.
 
wengerout said:
Pretty much this.

Not being a dentist sounds like a good alternative until you try to get a job with a majority of bachelor's degrees and are making 30k a year.

For example, in my STEM degree program, one person is currently making 29k a year and the other has a bachelor's degree + an MPH (Did the dual program) and hasn't even found a job yet nearly three months after graduation.

When you see this alternative, those scary debt numbers are put into a bit more perspective. Of course this doesn't mean NYU's tuition isn't insane, or that there aren't undergrad programs that make more reputable salaries. However if someone is this deep in the dental application process it's highly unlikely that they are in a position to drop everything and go back to undergrad for another degree.

The way I see it, you can live like a pauper for 10 years after going to NYU and then make a decent middle class salary (While potentially owning your own buisness) OR in a large part of cases you can make an average salary (40-70k) for your entire life(While likely always working for someone else).

Finally, as another poster said, while I know you mean well with this warning NYU will always fill their classes until the student loan bubble burst. Even now as you write this, there are students on this forum who are wishing for nothing more than a call from NYU for an acceptance. I think the greatest likelihood for change is going to be addressing the problem at its source, which is the government giving students virtually unlimited amounts of loan money allowing schools to raise cost to levels nearly none of us could afford otherwise. If tomorrow student loans were capped at 60k, I think you would see a lot of schools change their tune on the rising cost of a dental education.
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I know plenty of people who managed to make 70k a year with a bachelors in biology leveraging their bio degree to work in the business side of a scientific research company like baxter. Not saying you should give up on dental if NYU is your only acceptance. Hell -- i'd probably go even if it meant being a poor dentist. But it does mean you have to think twice about your reasons for going. If living comfortably as a dentist is important to you, then you are better off risking reapplying or finding another career than going to NYU dental. If you love dentistry and can't imagine doing anything else even if it means you will be in tons of debt and not be rich doing it, then NYU might be worth it if its your only acceptance. Its good the OP is warning people about NYU because a lot of people who love dentistry also find living comfortably to be an important part of their decision and they need to be warned.
 
It's not the school's fault. It's the student's choice. Nobody is forcing you to go to NYU or any other outrageously expensive private school. These schools cater to those students not qualified to compete with the higher demand in-state/traditional schools. No difference in the capitalistic world. If you have a high credit score and a good job ... you get GREAT loans with low interest rates. The less qualified borrowers (dental students) get the crap loans and the expensive schools. Going to NYU or any other FOR PROFIT school is like financing a Ferrari with a Walmart job and a 100 credit cards. Some don't have a choice. The remainder do have choices. Choices to work harder and improve your stats.

It's also not the govt's fault. They can't hold everybody's hand. Providing students loans is a good thing. If you use it to buy a Ferrari instead of a Camry .... that's ON YOU.

So ... work hard as you should if you want to be a dental professional. Hard work will mean better stats. Better stats gets you into BETTER, less expensive non-profit STATE traditional schools where you learn to be a good dentist.
 
2TH MVR said:
It's not the school's fault. It's the student's choice. Nobody is forcing you to go to NYU or any other outrageously expensive private school. These schools cater to those students not qualified to compete with the higher demand in-state/traditional schools. No difference in the capitalistic world. If you have a high credit score and a good job ... you get GREAT loans with low interest rates. The less qualified borrowers (dental students) get the crap loans and the expensive schools. Going to NYU or any other FOR PROFIT school is like financing a Ferrari with a Walmart job and a 100 credit cards. Some don't have a choice. The remainder do have choices. Choices to work harder and improve your stats.

It's also not the govt's fault. They can't hold everybody's hand. Providing students loans is a good thing. If you use it to buy a Ferrari instead of a Camry .... that's ON YOU.

So ... work hard as you should if you want to be a dental professional. Hard work will mean better stats. Better stats gets you into BETTER, less expensive non-profit STATE traditional schools where you learn to be a good dentist.
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In terms of ranks, does that put NYU at the bottom because they accept/enroll students will lower stats but willing to pay the tuition? Like I highly doubt someone who has very good stats and has many choices will pick NYU over the rest due to the high tuition. Also is NYU is the most expensive dental school? I saw that its 90k w/o room and board.
 
NYU exists to fill a purpose. My feeling is a financial purpose. When I applied to dental school .... I was accepted to expensive and less expensive programs. Without hesitation .... I chose the least expensive school. Who in their right mind wants to pay more money for the same credentials (DDS/DMD).

If NYU is your only choice and your dream is to become a dentist .... well ....I guess you do what you need to do.
 
What is the thought process now that Biden is elected? The What Can you Do for Your Country bill by Sen. Warren actually enhances the PSLF. Forgives half in 5 years, the rest in 10 years. Also, it says "early payments" will count towards the 120 payments. Even though there is talk that you can get 10k forgiven for 5 years, it also said if you still have loans then PSLF is still available. Furthermore, even when Trump tried to axe PSLF, from my understanding, it would only apply to people who have yet to take out loans.
 
AcquaLife said:
What is the thought process now that Biden is elected? The What Can you Do for Your Country bill by Sen. Warren actually enhances the PSLF. Forgives half in 5 years, the rest in 10 years. Also, it says "early payments" will count towards the 120 payments. Even though there is talk that you can get 10k forgiven for 5 years, it also said if you still have loans then PSLF is still available. Furthermore, even when Trump tried to axe PSLF, from my understanding, it would only apply to people who have yet to take out loans.
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@Big Time Hoosier
 
AcquaLife said:
What is the thought process now that Biden is elected? The What Can you Do for Your Country bill by Sen. Warren actually enhances the PSLF. Forgives half in 5 years, the rest in 10 years. Also, it says "early payments" will count towards the 120 payments. Even though there is talk that you can get 10k forgiven for 5 years, it also said if you still have loans then PSLF is still available. Furthermore, even when Trump tried to axe PSLF, from my understanding, it would only apply to people who have yet to take out loans.
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The Democratic Party couldn't care less what the Senator from Massachusetts has to say. She served her purpose. Besides, wasn't the bill introduced years ago?

The bill stipulates you must work for a government organization for 10 years. Sounds like ... fun...
 
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Ivy.ch said:
The Democratic Party couldn't care less what the Senator from Massachusetts has to say. She served her purpose. Besides, wasn't the bill introduced years a while ago?

The bill stipulates you must work for a government organization for 10 years. Sounds like ... fun...
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It still has to serve as a sort of baseline where a decent amount of dems will land on the issue in regards to PSLF. Just seems less likely it will be going anywhere during the next four years. I guess public service organizations are all government orgs? I think some hospitals qualify?
 
AcquaLife said:
What is the thought process now that Biden is elected? The What Can you Do for Your Country bill by Sen. Warren actually enhances the PSLF. Forgives half in 5 years, the rest in 10 years. Also, it says "early payments" will count towards the 120 payments. Even though there is talk that you can get 10k forgiven for 5 years, it also said if you still have loans then PSLF is still available. Furthermore, even when Trump tried to axe PSLF, from my understanding, it would only apply to people who have yet to take out loans.
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Yeah, we can afford this...

www.usdebtclock.org

Big Hoss
 
AcquaLife said:
There is a reason the dollar has been tanking. They are going to inflate away our debt.
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C2C7503E-C8ED-4701-9056-3CA310F7E062.jpeg


Big Hoss
 
AcquaLife said:
There is a reason the dollar has been tanking. They are going to inflate away our debt.
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That is genius. When a gallon milk is $1000, the 500k debt is like only 500 gallons of milk.
buy some cows and pay off our loans!
 
Big Time Hoosier said:
Yeah, we can afford this...

www.usdebtclock.org

Big Hoss
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this is terrifying.

As a country and culturally we have normalized having debt way too much, all the way from top people in the government/business to 18 year olds taking out 100k+ for a useless undergrad degree.

We are purchasing consumerist lifestyles that we cannot afford to impress others while simultaneously ravaging our environment with the amount of waste we produce.

Live a cash life under your means, not spending 2x what you make each month. Life will be much less stressful and easier even if your IG feed doesn't look as impressive.

Like MMM says, your debt is a HUGE FLAMING EMERGENCY! It's a fire to put out ASAP, not something to stretch out for decades. Cut up the credit cards, make a budget, and get out of student debt ASAP. Life will be good.

www.mrmoneymustache.com

News Flash: Your Debt is an Emergency!!

I like to think of Mr. Money Mustache as an advanced personal finance blog. We don’t talk about cutting up our credit cards, or clipping coupons to save $5.00 on the newest Swiffer mop, or ma…
www.mrmoneymustache.com www.mrmoneymustache.com
 
AcquaLife said:
What is the thought process now that Biden is elected? The What Can you Do for Your Country bill by Sen. Warren actually enhances the PSLF. Forgives half in 5 years, the rest in 10 years. Also, it says "early payments" will count towards the 120 payments. Even though there is talk that you can get 10k forgiven for 5 years, it also said if you still have loans then PSLF is still available. Furthermore, even when Trump tried to axe PSLF, from my understanding, it would only apply to people who have yet to take out loans.
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The government does not care about us. Student loan debt was a fantastic topic to get votes but now that Biden has the presidency, he has no need to fulfill any campaign obligations. Kind of like how Biden said he would stop putting kids in cages but instead just renamed the cages "overflow facilities". The only thing that will stop the high costs is when pre dents stop attending these schools. Do not rely on the government for help.
 
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