PM&R Residency Match Questions

[Taus]

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I've been doing a lot of reading up on PM&R and have a few questions regarding the match process for the 1+3 year type programs.

When match time comes around do I just try to match into my internship and then a year later try to match into PM&R?.... or is it that I match into both during one match?

Another question that complicates the issue is if I want to do an Osteopathic Traditional Rotating Internship followed by an Allopathic residency. I'm curious if this is an impossible route or just greatly complicates things. As I understand it, you can only participate in one match at at time, which would limit me to soley osteo internships and residencies, with no allo part. Nothing against either/or, I'm just trying to understand all of this.

Thanks in advance for the help

 

[Gauss]

you apply for both internship and the following years at the same time, you interview for both at the same time, and you rank both.
As for the DO internship and then allo residency that would require 2 separate app processes and matches. Some around here have done it so I'm sure there's no conflicts.

 

[Taus]

Thanks for the reply.

So basically you're saying that in the same year I can actually use both matches if I want to bc they're going to be for separate things? As in I can use the DO match for my internship and the MD match for my residency all in the same year without any problems? Seems to make sense to me, but I just want to make sure that there won't be any problems with going this route. I'm more interested in the DO internship year as I'm going to be in PA, which is one of the states still requireing a DO internship in order to be fully licensed in the state.

 

[melancholy]

Yes, the osteopathic match and allopathic match will still be on different dates with the osteopathic match occuring earlier. Since you're class of 2009, some things may change by the time you get around to applying for residencies, but currently if you match into an osteopathic internship and/or residency, that will automatically pull you out of the corresponding allopathic match.

It is common enough to find DO's that do an osteopathic internship and an allopathic residency, especially on these PM&R forums I think. You will apply for everything during your 4th year, find out about your osteopathic internship acceptance in late January, then find out about the allopathic residency match results in March.

Some people have tried to get allopathic transitional year internships approved by the AOA with varying success although it seems to be a lot more paperwork these days to make it more difficult for folks to do this. As far as I know, it is still possible.

I hope I am not confusing you too much.

Thanks for the reply.

So basically you're saying that in the same year I can actually use both matches if I want to bc they're going to be for separate things? As in I can use the DO match for my internship and the MD match for my residency all in the same year without any problems? Seems to make sense to me, but I just want to make sure that there won't be any problems with going this route. I'm more interested in the DO internship year as I'm going to be in PA, which is one of the states still requireing a DO internship in order to be fully licensed in the state.

 

[Taus]

Meloncholy- Thanks a lot for the response. I am confused over one point though. I know that I will be pulled out of the MD match should I match into a DO residency....however that is the point that I'm confused about here, especially after your second paragraph. Please correct me if I'm wrong here - I can do an osteopathic internship followed by an allo residency and apply to both of these in the same match year without fear of being pulled out of one match or the other? I understand that I couldnt rank an allo and osteo PM&R in the same year with the current split matches, but because I am applying to two separate programs (internship and residency) I can utilize both matches in the same year without a problem? Thanks a lot for your time.

 

[BklynWill]

I'm looking forward to a clarification of these questions too. It seems as though you would only be pulled if the residencies were equal/ simultaneous. But given that the true PGY2-4 program is accepting you over a year in advance, there is apparently no conflict with a 1-year rotating internship.

 

[Taus]

I hope that's the case....but I just want to be sure...

 

[melancholy]

Meloncholy- Thanks a lot for the response. I am confused over one point though. I know that I will be pulled out of the MD match should I match into a DO residency....however that is the point that I'm confused about here, especially after your second paragraph. Please correct me if I'm wrong here - I can do an osteopathic internship followed by an allo residency and apply to both of these in the same match year without fear of being pulled out of one match or the other? I understand that I couldnt rank an allo and osteo PM&R in the same year with the current split matches, but because I am applying to two separate programs (internship and residency) I can utilize both matches in the same year without a problem? Thanks a lot for your time.

To answer your question in short, yes you can do an osteopathic internship followed by an allo residency AND apply to both of these in your 4th year simultaneously without fear of being pulled out of one match or the other.

The matches make sure that you will have both an internship spot and a residency spot, whether or not they are allopathic or osteopathic. However, in order to not be pulled out of an allo residency spot, you have to weigh whether or not there is an osteopathic residency that you would want to try for... knowing that if you are accepted, you will be dropped from the allo residency match. Getting "dropped" will have no effect on your internship match because that is a separate spot to be considered.

However, (now that I think about it) there is at least one caveat to consider. Many residencies start as a PGY-2 and you have to look for your own internship separately. Some residencies DO have an included PGY-1 internship year that is linked. A residency program may have some spots designated as "linked" (1+3 years) and others that are not linked (just 3 years). If you are accepted to an osteopathic internship, it is a possibility (and someone else PLEASE confirm this with me) that you get dropped from allopathic residency spots that are linked. (because you have to do their internship year in order to get that spot).

Even though I haven't looked at the technicalities of the match program, apparently it is very detailed and customizable so that you can basically write out your internship/residency combinations and then rank them in a very specific manner to maximize your priorities.

 

[melancholy]

I'm looking forward to a clarification of these questions too. It seems as though you would only be pulled if the residencies were equal/ simultaneous. But given that the true PGY2-4 program is accepting you over a year in advance, there is apparently no conflict with a 1-year rotating internship.

If you are applying to residency programs during your 4th year, then yes, they are accepting you a year in advance. If the residency program accepts you to a linked spot, then you will basically be at that hospital/institution the following year.. but starting off with your internship there before continuing onto your residency. Some people like this to get settled down and learn the system earlier.

In the case of ranking only PGY2-4 programs and 1-year rotating internships, there is no conflict and one should not affect the other.

 

[axm397]

I know one issue my year was with those linked residencies - UPenn decided to only offer 4 yr spots (PGY1 - 4) but could not guarantee that the PGY1 would be AOA approved - that it would be decided on a case by case basis by the AOA. Many of the DO students felt this was not very reassuring and therefore chose not to rank Penn. I don't know if things have changed since then.

 

[Taus]

Thanks a lot everyone...much appreciated

 

[electra]

You are not pulled out of the allo match if you match for an osteopathic internship. You are only pulled out of the 4 yr PM&R programs (the categorical programs.) For example, Mayo and RIC both have a small number of 4 yr spots (with more 3 years spots.) It can be said that if you really want to go there, you should apply for both spots (they have different numbers.) If you match for a TR year at an osteopathic hospital, they pull you from the categorical spots and leave you in the 3 year spots. You then have as much chance as anyone else to get a spot at most programs.

 

[melancholy]

You are not pulled out of the allo match if you match for an osteopathic internship. You are only pulled out of the 4 yr PM&R programs (the categorical programs.) For example, Mayo and RIC both have a small number of 4 yr spots (with more 3 years spots.) It can be said that if you really want to go there, you should apply for both spots (they have different numbers.) If you match for a TR year at an osteopathic hospital, they pull you from the categorical spots and leave you in the 3 year spots. You then have as much chance as anyone else to get a spot at most programs.

If you are accepted to an osteopathic internship, it is a possibility (and someone else PLEASE confirm this with me) that you get dropped from allopathic residency spots that are linked. (because you have to do their internship year in order to get that spot).

Hey electra,
I think this was the statement you were referring to. To resumarrize it, if you are accepted to an osteopathic internship, you are pulled out of any "linked" (or in proper terms, categorical) allopathic residency spots that were applied to.

I think what I left out or did not mention was that you could increase your chances of getting into a designated program by simply applying to all the spots they have available, both PGY-2 and categorical spots. That way, you will only be pulled from the categorical spots should you match into an osteopathic internship in late January.

That's a very good point you've made. If you were referring to some other statement I made in an earlier post, then I should probably vertical mattress my mouth shut because I'm not too good with summarizing this whole process. (yet) 😀

 

[AviatorDoc]

it is correct that you should not be pulled out of the allopathic residency match if you match to an osteopathic internship. HOWEVER, be careful, and don't assume all is well. after the osteo match, verify you are still enrolled in the allopathic match.

also, dont put all your faith into a computer program such as ERAS. call programs individually to verify that they received your application. The very program i am now attending never received my completed ERAS application.

 

[melancholy]

it is correct that you should not be pulled out of the allopathic residency match if you match to an osteopathic internship. HOWEVER, be careful, and don't assume all is well. after the osteo match, verify you are still enrolled in the allopathic match.

also, dont put all your faith into a computer program such as ERAS. call programs individually to verify that they received your application. The very program i am now attending never received my completed ERAS application.

Thanks for offering your experience in this matter. I guess it isn't much different from how the college and med school applications process worked. Admissions and registrar's departments were always losing things left and right and I still experienced this while applying for various clinical clerkships.

Anyway, good reminder to always follow up on things.

 

[axm397]

The year I was applying to residencies, Jefferson had a "computer crash" and the whole ERAS program was erased from their computers and they had to re-download applications, etc... So computers are not very reliable...

 

[Gauss]

lor's that are scanned in sometimes disappear too
One program let me know early on though

 

[J-rod]

Just wanted to add my two cents. I know this is a little off-topic but I just wanted to clarify:

Most traditional rotating internships do not fill so if you fear you may not match you might increase your odds in the match by applying to both 3 and 4-year PMR programs and seeing how you do in the match before selecting a D.O. internship. I know the AOA is an unreasonable, unorganized institution but I imagine they'd understand and perhaps give approval to a 4 yr. PMR program(with the internship included) versus a 3 yr. program and a transitional year or prelim year(what the MD's do)

Also,

Make sure you do an overnight call at an osteopathic internship program before selecting it! This would also be a good idea for a PM&R residency program but perhaps not as crucial.

J-rod

 

[melancholy]

Just wanted to add my two cents. I know this is a little off-topic but I just wanted to clarify:

Most traditional rotating internships do not fill so if you fear you may not match you might increase your odds in the match by applying to both 3 and 4-year PMR programs and seeing how you do in the match before selecting a D.O. internship. I know the AOA is an unreasonable, unorganized institution but I imagine they'd understand and perhaps give approval to a 4 yr. PMR program(with the internship included) versus a 3 yr. program and a transitional year or prelim year(what the MD's do)
J-rod

Thanks for the heads-up. I'm not sure if you're aware that times have changed a bit more and it has gotten increasingly more difficult to get some of these allopathic internships approved. That being said, I don't have any direct anecdotal evidence about people who have done 4 year programs and attempted to get their internship year approved. What I do know is that I don't like to leave things to chance.. or the AOA.

 

[docslacker]

Great points J-Rod. I agree it's better to apply to 3 & 4 year programs and scramble for a DO internship later. Most DO programs do not fill through the DO match and you should easily find a spot. Now that PM&R is more competitive, it gives you a better cahnce to match. Melancholy, I've actually been told that in the past few years it has become easier to get AOA approval for allopathic internships. The AOA was losing members and this was costing them membership dues so they have relaxed somewhat on the requirements. This was told to me by my former DME at my DO internship.

 

[joseppi]

I'm in the same situation; I was hoping they (AOA) would consider the combined match this year... they didn't. If I opt out of the DO match my PMR opportunities increase since about half the programs I have been looking at are PGY1. It a bit of a gamble, and I hope it works out in the long run. TY are quite competetive, thats the only downfall I can see if you don't get a PGY1 spot.

Great points J-Rod. I agree it's better to apply to 3 & 4 year programs and scramble for a DO internship later. Most DO programs do not fill through the DO match and you should easily find a spot. Now that PM&R is more competitive, it gives you a better cahnce to match. Melancholy, I've actually been told that in the past few years it has become easier to get AOA approval for allopathic internships. The AOA was losing members and this was costing them membership dues so they have relaxed somewhat on the requirements. This was told to me by my former DME at my DO internship.

 

[arik79]

I'm looking forward to a clarification of these questions too. It seems as though you would only be pulled if the residencies were equal/ simultaneous. But given that the true PGY2-4 program is accepting you over a year in advance, there is apparently no conflict with a 1-year rotating internship.

is this willie from suny albany? this is arik. i am going into pmr next year and i was checkin out this forum. you are a first year?? anyway my email is [email protected] if you want to catch up.