PM&R Salary

[SSdoc33]

Wow. Some of those numbers are shockingly low. I think the numbers are probably similar across the board in all academic institutions +/- 20,000.

you could think that. but you'd be wrong. very location-dependent and intervention dependent. if you are doing EMGs, spine injections, and seeing a boatlad of patients, you should not be making 135K

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[Baritonebass]

I'm going to assume that the salary is low because these institution offer pension, 401k and other pre-tax benefits, that aren't counted in there base salary. Also in a RVU model the production bonus won't be listed with salary.

 

[bronx43]

So this may be a little too focused and off topic but Texas does an annual salary survey of government employees, many of whom are physicians. Want to know what academic pm&r docs of young and old make in the big health centers... just take a look

http://www.texastribune.org/library...epartments/physical-medicine-and-rehab/11437/

http://www.texastribune.org/library...ments/physical-medicine-rehabilitation/11893/

Whoa, how is the pay in one of those schools so much higher than the other? There has to be something else with those numbers, because we have a publicly available survey for state employees as well, and I know many of their salaries numbers for attendings are low, because it only includes their academic compensation, and they get additional pay for their clinical time.

 

[RUOkie]

Whoa, how is the pay in one of those schools so much higher than the other? There has to be something else with those numbers, because we have a publicly available survey for state employees as well, and I know many of their salaries numbers for attendings are low, because it only includes their academic compensation, and they get additional pay for their clinical time.

the docs at UT-SW are salaried. That is what they make.

The docs at UT-Houston are dual appointed with BCM, and that hides a lot. Dr. Khalifa's salary for example is just for his medical directorship of Occ Med. He also has a very busy private practice which is not mentioed there (nor is his compensation from Union Pacific RR as regional med director)

 

[slammer922]

the docs at UT-SW are salaried. That is what they make.

The docs at UT-Houston are dual appointed with BCM, and that hides a lot. Dr. Khalifa's salary for example is just for his medical directorship of Occ Med. He also has a very busy private practice which is not mentioed there (nor is his compensation from Union Pacific RR as regional med director)

Yes, all the above posts are very true.

 

[ForehandOsteo]

Is there any good places to look for jobs that are DO friendly? I've heard it can be tougher for DO's to get jobs at a lot of practices.

 

[RUOkie]

Is there any good places to look for jobs that are DO friendly? I've heard it can be tougher for DO's to get jobs at a lot of practices.

In PM&R? I think you heard wrong. Osteopaths work everywhere in our field.

 

[SMC123]

How much can you expect to make in PM&R with a pain fellowship? Also, how hard are fellowships to get compared to IM fellowships?

 

[RUOkie]

How much can you expect to make in PM&R with a pain fellowship? Also, how hard are fellowships to get compared to IM fellowships?

It depends.

Are you looking at academics, or private practice?
How much interventional pain will you do?
Will the RVUs change between now and when you finish your fellowship? (of course they will)


DON'T choose your specialty based upon how much $ you will make. That is the path to unhappiness. Love what you do, and be happy with what you make.

 

[WSP]

Wondering if there is any updated info on PM&R salaries. The group I am working for is looking at hiring a Physiatrist and we are having some trouble finding salary info. The census is that a new grad is in the range of $150,000 -180,000. Any thoughts? Thank everyone!

I started at 400k (right out of PMR residency...no fellowship...but I did more than most pain fellows would do in fellowship), 10k bonus, and increasing salary at 50k a year plus a RVU structure. I'm also a better negotiator than most and very marketable.

 

[lejeunesage]

Daaaaaaaaaamn!
What are you, like a magician or something?
How the hell did you get that right out of residency?
I'm assuming it's an interventionist job? How many patients do you see a day?

 

[Taus]

That's got to either be in bfe or something bordering on shady...

 

[PMR_doc]

I don't know about it being shady, I know several grads from my program who graduated with no fellowship and got 300k + jobs. It's definitely doable, you just have to have the right experience, and negotiating skills. It helps tremendously if you have procedural training in your program that can help you market yourself. The vast majority of jobs today require interventional skills it seems, and if you can go into a practice and hit the floor running by being an asset, who can do procedures off the bat, then you are in a great position I think.

That's got to either be in bfe or something bordering on shady...

 

[ampaphb]

Anything above $250k as an initial salary is either, as Taus said, shady, or in bfe. I am sure your colleagues dont know it is shady, but the only places that offer that are in areas like western Nebraska, or are likely to be closed down by the feds within the next year.

Has nothing to do with "negotiating skills" or "procedural training in your program". Firstly, anyone who thinks they are adequeately trained to perform the full complement of procedures without a fellowship is delusional. Secondly, there are far too many new grads out there for you to have any negotiating power. NY, LA, Chicago, etc. are competative markets with lots of residents getting out of training.

Then again, I've only been in practice and training fellows for 10 years, so what do I know?

 

[Xardas]

New grads are looked at as somewhat of a curiosity - always potentially interesting but can also blow up in your face. Unless you trained at the program you are being hired at, most employers have VERY little to go by in terms of what you are good at. Let's face it, interviews only help so much - some people are awesome doctors and totally bad interviewees, while others have the sales skills that rival the dudes at the car dealerships that make 300k (yes these guys exist) but are mediocre docs.

Because of that most new jobs pay low. Your best best by far is look for the best opportunity professionally (how can i advance my skills, meet new people, learn how to practice ethically, have a stable environment) and then start going from there.

 

[Runderwoman]

I know a physiatrist that just signed a 565K contract for doing interventional procedures...working 4 days/week. This is in a somewhat "rural" area...but not crazy rural.

 

[RUOkie]

I know a physiatrist that just signed a 565K contract for doing interventional procedures...working 4 days/week. This is in a somewhat "rural" area...but not crazy rural.

then they are doing something shady. No bones about it.

 

[j4pac]

then they are doing something shady. No bones about it.

That is about as much as an under-the-table pain pill pusher makes. Either that or every patient gets the porcupine treatment. Facet block that mofo head to toe.

 

[MedBronc23]

I would agree that with interventional fellowship training (pain sports and spine sports) , or medical directorship, or both... It would be hard to get more as new grad over 250K salary...

However based on my experience this last year with jobs in areas at or below 500k population ... It is not unreasonable to make 300K with right benefits package sign on loan repayment ect.

500k base Salary with or without incentives seems odd or possibly "shady", but I guess could be done if you have a large percent of market share referral base no competition own percentage of ancillary imaging dme profits and maybe are instant buy in partner

Just never seen a job like that.

I've looked in western NE too and no 500k jobs there

 

[lejeunesage]

I would agree that with interventional fellowship training (pain sports and spine sports) , or medical directorship, or both... It would be hard to get more as new grad over 250K salary...

However based on my experience this last year with jobs in areas at or below 500k population ... It is not unreasonable to make 300K with right benefits package sign on loan repayment ect.

500k base Salary with or without incentives seems odd or possibly "shady", but I guess could be done if you have a large percent of market share referral base no competition own percentage of ancillary imaging dme profits and maybe are instant buy in partner

Just never seen a job like that.

I've looked in western NE too and no 500k jobs there

That 300K, should I assume it's with fellowship?

 

[MedBronc23]

That 300K, should I assume it's with fellowship?

Yes, 300k plus with fellowship unless medical director and most places wanting a sci or brain fellowship trained doc for that

 

[MedicalBeast]

What salary can one expect to make at a first job, fresh out of residency (no fellowship) doing general rehab--mix of inpatient/outpatient/EMGs?

 

[PMR2008]

Depends on the part of country, academic vs private, PM&R only group or Ortho group. Range is from 120000 (academic big city) to 300000(rural inpatient/outpatient mix).

 

[lejeunesage]

Depends on the part of country, academic vs private, PM&R only group or Ortho group. Range is from 120000 (academic big city) to 300000(rural inpatient/outpatient mix).

I think everyone knows about private practice vs academia, but it's not entirely intuitive to me whether being in a single-specialty group or ortho group is more lucrative.
I could see how an Ortho group might give you a built-in referral base, but I could also see how they'd never truly consider you one of their partners.
On the other hand, if it's a PM&R-only group, where you do you get your referrals from?

 

[PMR2008]

In my limited experience PM&R/Pain groups had better offers with a better starting salary and partnership track. It is extremely rare to have partnership opportunities in Ortho groups. I agree that referral base is a lot more stable in ortho or multi specialty groups.

 

[lejeunesage]

In my limited experience PM&R/Pain groups had better offers with a better starting salary and partnership track. It is extremely rare to have partnership opportunities in Ortho groups. I agree that referral base is a lot more stable in ortho or multi specialty groups.

Thanks! This is really helpful.... or it will be, in a few years.

 

[ampaphb]

It has been my experience that those ortho groups that balk about making non-orthpods partners are most concerned about voting rights. They typically will allow you to buy into ancillary revenue streams and real estate holdings, structure your compensation as eat what you kill, and basically allow you to function autonomously. Being made a member of their board is where the objection usually is raised.

However, ortho practices often have higher operating costs. Unless they are willing to treat you as an independent cost center, you will likely be responsible for a 55-65% of your gross revenue being put towards overhead (while most pain practices run at 40-50%).

 

[Xardas]

So I'm curious since I'm almost exclusively inpt/SNF nowadays, are there plenty of PMR's who work for the ortho groups and are very happy? Or do the pain guys like being in PM&R/pain only groups better?

I'm asking just purely for the sake of conversation.

 

[Butterfly23]

What About Peds PM&R Salary in private practice world??

 

[Huskieluv41]

I know a physiatrist that just signed a 565K contract for doing interventional procedures...working 4 days/week. This is in a somewhat "rural" area...but not crazy rural.

Hi there, Im just finishing my PM&R residency, what part of the country is this?

 

[lobelsteve]

Hi there, Im just finishing my PM&R residency, what part of the country is this?

Mars.