pod school rankings?

[dreambig17]

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is there a ranking of pod schools available? which do you guys think is the best and why? oh yeah and whats up w Barry? it seems like no one has anything good to say about that school....

 

[densmore22]

Do a search, this topic has been beaten to death.

 

[OSUDDS]

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

is there a ranking of pod schools available? which do you guys think is the best and why? oh yeah and whats up w Barry? it seems like no one has anything good to say about that school....

They have great weather. A nice new building soon. They get great rotations at area hospitals where they see s very diverse pathology population. They are a very diverse school. They have much nicer beaches than DM.

I battle back and forth with this crap. I think that when you rank a school what your are probably ranking is the school's leadership. Are they taking the right students? Are they taking anyone with a pulse? What direction are the heading? How are the facilities? What are the outcomes like? You will have opportunities at all of the schools, but the tougher programs put out a constant level of competence. There is not as much fluctuation which is seen in the board scores ect. So if you get into DMU, Scholl, AZPod, ect., you are not guaranteed success but you know that you are with a class full of very qualified an intelligent students. At AZPod and DMU, you know that you will be very challenged and must compete and keep up with the DO medical program. So is it better? Maybe, but biochem is biochem. So anyone can be successful anywhere; I just think that some schools might make it easier.

 

[justincredible]

haha is that a new smiley? Yes, that poor horse has been beaten to death...past death even!

But I like Feelgood's response. Its a tough call when you want to size the 8 schools up and fit them into a set ranking. Each school has something different and special to offer and each school produces both very successful and those not-so-successful professionals. Its all a matter of what you make of it, regardless of which school is in question. Try running a search on this topic, its been discussed quite a bit. Good luck.

 

[jonwill]

is there a ranking of pod schools available? which do you guys think is the best and why? oh yeah and whats up w Barry? it seems like no one has anything good to say about that school....

Here is the "famous" thread.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=255466

 

[Feli]

... oh yeah and whats up w Barry? it seems like no one has anything good to say about that school....

I was sorta looking to diplomatically avoid this thread, but I guess I'll chime in...

I really think it boils down to student talent. Fewer quality students means lower board scores and fewer big name residency placements. That seems to be what top incoming pod students want, so the cycle obviously perpetuates itself with few exceptions. If the school seldom attracts top students, the board pass rates will generally stay fairly low and few graduates will match with top residencies since few of them were top residency candidates. Also, as you see krambas stating in the link thread above, one bad experience with/from a Barry student/grad/flunkee tends to promote hearsay and rumors. If she had talked to a more successful student, would her opinion be entirely different? It is worth noting that many Barry students like the warm climate and stay close for externships/residency/practice, so it is my belief that the rest of the nation's (meaning basically all pod schools) view of Barry may be based on a small sampling of Barry pod students/grads, which may or may not be representative.

In terms of curriculum, some students here may tell you that the exams are unfair, the faculty doesn't teach well, you don't get enough time off right before boards, we don't get "re-takes" if we fail a class, etc, but those aren't great excuses in my book. Chances are high (circa 100%) that other schools are reading Robbins pathology, Netter Anat atlas, First Aid for USMLE, Pocket Podiatrics, same PubMed and journals, etc also. Many of the frustrated students are simply in a bit over their head and jealous of students who perform better (at Barry and at other pod schools). Unfortunately, it's a lot easier to blame the program or professors than oneself for lack of success. I don't think it's the university's fault when students who skip class or don't read notes/book fail boards/classes or arrive late at an externship/interview/clinic due to simple laziness.

Does Barry have many good aspects also? I sure think so. The vast majority of the basic sciences faculty are full time, and they are highly accessible and helpful in my experience. The "old exams" here are centralized so that all students have the same ones and the playing field is leveled (as opposed to small cliques of students having "secret weapons" at other pod programs). Barry's clinic and hospital rotations are many and diverse, and you will see a variety of interesting cases since Miami is such a melting pot. Many of the DPMs on faculty are excellent in my opinion, and I think that the dean and pod admins do a nice job of attracting top DPM clinical faculty. It's nice to have a diverse group of DPMs who are alumni from many other schools so that the education and podiatric thinking doesn't get "inbred" (ie hiring only grads of the school itself). Barry's PhD basic sciences and adjunct faculty, as I said, are not necessarily chosen by the pod admins since many of them also instruct other graduate or undergrad courses, but they are, nonetheless, certainly quite more than adequate and highly accessible in my experiences here. Additionally, scholarships at Barry are plentiful and helpful throughout the 4 years.

As was said, anyone can do great anywhere. A program like Barry with a solid enough program yet (generally) below average student talent will fluctuate based on students. The 1999 class produced Steinberg, multiple other residency directors, and many highly successful podiatrists. A few years later, the board pass rate was supposedly last among pod schools or very close. The funny thing was that the faculty and admins barely changed in that timespan, so I don't see how it's not student talent fluctuations which cause the boom/bust. I guess, as a Barry student, you can waste time worrying about what people will think/say or what has gone on in the past, but if you realize that the resources to succeed are there and spend that time productively, it's not hard to rise above the BS and stereotypes. If a student produces the same board pass certificates, similar clinical skills, and similar knowledge as their counterparts in the other schools, who cares? It's not like there is five pod schools in every state, so you mised well pick where you want to be (near family, climate, etc), work hard there, and realize that success or lack thereof is largely under your control.

As far as Barry's future, I really don't know what to expect. It's certainly going to be an uphill battle in terms of attracting top incoming students with all of the negative rumors floating around. I think Barry does get some very good and/or hard working students, and they could lower their class sizes for a few years by letting in mostly only good students in order to raise board pass rate and reputation. That would, in turn, begin to perpetuate more good student applicatioins, and that would be the best way to long term success. However, it is a business, and Barry's new GMS building won't pay for itself, so that probably does play into the acceptance of some less than stellar prospects. However, the university as a whole seems highly stable in financial terms, so it may be feasible if desired. Better recruiting would also be an option, and perhaps that is the goal of pleniful scholarships? I will maintain that the tools for success are here, and students have to know how to use them. You can't save someone from themself, and even a person with a 30 MCAT or a bachelor's degree from Columbia can still party on South Beach instead of attending lectures and studying physiology.

To prospective students looking into Barry (or any pod school):
My best advice would be that the ideal pod school choice for student X may not be the best for everyone. Many of the students bashing Barry or other pod schools probably have never set foot on the campus they are dispairaging or listened to a single lecture there. Can you get a great DPM education at Barry? Certainly. What are some of ways to do it? Same ways as any school: work hard, be interested, and associate yourself with intelligent and successful classmates, upperclassmen, faculty, etc. If you have the talent and want to succeed here, then you will if you work hard. If you like warm climate, have family nearby, want to experience a diverse cultural setting, etc, I would advise you to check out the school and make your decision yourself.

The bottom line is that, no matter where you go to pod school, you can't treat it like a vending machine where you put in 100k in tuition and a DPM diploma pops out. You have to work hard and apply yourself. Few things in life that are worth having are easy to get, and you have to earn it. You will probably have to relax on the partying, socializing, video games, etc etc etc to get the most from your education. You will have to study a lot, and you have to find ways to motivate yourself (finding respectable upperclassmen/DPMs and talking with them helps me). Old exams should be used as a tool to quiz yourself on the night before the exam after you have read the notes and book; they are not a way to bail yourself out at the last minute and pass the class. If you fall into the "it's just podiatry school," "everyone gets a good residency," or "Cs make degrees," I think that is dangerous and you may be heading for tough times even if you do manage to graduate. You can choose to do the minimum, or you can go above and beyond by reading extra, writing research, spending 1-to-1 time chatting with faculty and upperclassmen you wish to emulate, etc.

Note to other BUGMS students:
If this post sounds like I'm metaphorically throwing fellow Barry students under a bus, I'm certainly not. If anything, the "Barry basing" you read on SDN or even the post I just typed should inspire you to prove it wrong. Not every student is an "A" student in every class (I'm certainly not), but doing the best possible work and taking initiative can go a long way. For my 09 class, the real education begins now, in the clinics, and I'm sure that many of the students will do their best to apply their basic science knowldedge, soak up new clinical skill, inspire trust and confidence in patients, and gain the respect of DPMs and other allied health colleagues with hard work and dilligence. I applaud those individuals.

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

is there a ranking of pod schools available? which do you guys think is the best and why? oh yeah and whats up w Barry? it seems like no one has anything good to say about that school....

Feli talks about rumours. From what I have heard (from 4 former students) Barry is not the place to go. I don't personally know anything, but 4 kids who attended Barry say no go. That should tell you something when you here over and over from STUDENTS who have been there.

 

[Feli]

Feli talks about rumours. From what I have heard (from 4 former students) Barry is not the place to go. I don't personally know anything, but 4 kids who attended Barry say no go. That should tell you something when you here over and over from STUDENTS who have been there.

You have to remember that when a school doesn't get many top applicants/matriculants yet has a decent and reasonably challenging academic program, there will be a high attrition rate and some frustrated students who are in over their head. By "kids who attended," are you talking about Barry graduates or people who were academically dismissed? If you're talking about current students, are they good students, or are they frustrated ones who are struggling to pass classes? With regard to any academic program, you should highly value the opinions and advice of conscientious students/grads/professors whom you wish to emulate, but take statements from other sources with a sizable grain of salt.

_______________________________________________

I guess, for anyone who knows NFL, one analogy might be the Detroit Lions.
They don't attract very many good free agents (matriculants), but there are still some stars and All Pros (top students). Every once in awhile, there's even Barry Sanders (Steinberg, Bakotic, etc). However, if the general reputation and usual season record (board scores) stays low, it's tough for the team to improve since they don't attract much top talent. Schools don't have a draft (where they actively select talent); they are metapohorically limited to free agents (who wants to go there). That doesn't mean that the team isn't trying to win and bring in players (students), a stadium (facilities), and coaches (faculty) who can do quite well, though...

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

The 1999 class produced Steinberg, multiple other residency directors, and many highly successful podiatrists. A few years later, the board pass rate was supposedly last among pod schools or very close. The funny thing was that the faculty and admins barely changed in that timespan, so I don't see how it's not student talent fluctuations which cause the boom/bust.

You are ignoring 1 major event that affected many schools board scores. The changes in boards and the big scandal was followed by the major drop in scores. So was the talent that great at some schools? Or where they cheating the lesser students through?

I'm not disagreeing with you assessment but I just wanted you to let everyone know why the scores may have dropped.

 

[Feli]

You are ignoring 1 major event that affected many schools board scores. The changes in boards and the big scandal was followed by the major drop in scores. So was the talent that great at some schools? Or where they cheating the lesser students through?

I'm not disagreeing with you assessment but I just wanted you to let everyone know why the scores may have dropped.

Yes, I am aware of the events which you are referencing but will summarize for those unaware; correct me if I'm wrong:

I believe it was the board exam administered in summer 2002 where Barry, NYCPM, and OCPM were accused of cheating or conspiring to steal and distribute NBPME questions in some form. OCPM challenged the allegations and was acquitted, and Barry and NYCPM did not appeal to my knowledge. Scores for all schools were invalidated, students had to re-take the test, and some schools ended up removing pt1 boards passage as a graduation requirement for that class (2004?). Since then (beginning with 2003 exams?), the NBPME exam has begun instantaneously at all testing locations, and the exam is more carefully composed, monitored, and evaluated. The changes have resulted in lower board pass rates for some of the schools which brings their curriculum into question.

...I guess I'm not really sure if I attribute the higher old scores and lowered recent scores to cheating/curving of old board exams and stiffening of new standards, though. Student talent does play a role, and some classes (ie the Barry '99 which I mentioned) do have proof of that talent in terms of grades residency placements, and respect within the profession - as well as just board pass rates. It is possible that lower board scores are just due to lack of studying, talent, and work ethic, and that is now magnified due to harder NBPME exams with more precautions against cheating (which is a tatic well-known to increase in prevalence among poor/lazy students).

It seems that the more DO/MD integrated pod schools (DMU, AZPod, Scholl) have weathered the NBPME changes more successfully. That may be due to a more demanding curriculum, or it may be due to better average student talent. It is probably a combination of those factors. I like the direction those schools are heading, but let's face it: none are in the southeast where my parents and my fiancee are. Despite the fact that bad rumors are the ones that are more fun to spread, I know that Barry is doing its part to evolve the education and standard of podiatry. Increasing numbers of 2nd year faculty are DOs, MDs, or PhDs who also instruct DO/MD students (mostly at Nova Southestern) or direct DO/MD residencies in Miami, and the efforts to attract and retain top young DPMs (Bakotic, Brill, Armstrong) to complement the existing senior faculty shows me that admins care about the program quality. Pod students' clinical and hospital rotations are constantly increasing and improving thanks to work by the clinical dean, and the new GMS building and medical center are obviously a move to improve the podiatric and allied health (PA, nursing, SMP, etc) educaton here. When you talk to the dean or admins for Barry GMS, they are concerned about student board exam performance, residency placements, etc and they are frustrated with the rumors. Efforts are being made to improve the program, and I think it's pretty adequate already if some students were more talented and/or harder working.

 

[jonwill]

I have to agree with what Feli is saying. While I have my own personal opinions about the schools, I have met very intelligent and competent students/doctors from all of the schools. I think the difference is the "lowest common denominator" so to speak.

 

[gustydoc]

I have to agree with what Feli is saying. While I have my own personal opinions about the schools, I have met very intelligent and competent students/doctors from all of the schools. I think the difference is the "lowest common denominator" so to speak.

youre just being nice to Barry now cause next year one of your co-residents will be a Barry grad. I know how you really feel, very diplomatic post though. 🙄

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I have to agree with what Feli is saying. While I have my own personal opinions about the schools, I have met very intelligent and competent students/doctors from all of the schools. I think the difference is the "lowest common denominator" so to speak.

I agree, the difference is seen in the midlevel and lower students. The higher ranks schools don't have that major cliff were the competence level falls to the floor.

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

You have to remember that when a school doesn't get many top applicants/matriculants yet has a decent and reasonably challenging academic program, there will be a high attrition rate and some frustrated students who are in over their head. By "kids who attended," are you talking about Barry graduates or people who were academically dismissed? If you're talking about current students, are they good students, or are they frustrated ones who are struggling to pass classes? With regard to any academic program, you should highly value the opinions and advice of conscientious students/grads/professors whom you wish to emulate, but take statements from other sources with a sizable grain of salt.

_______________________________________________

I guess, for anyone who knows NFL, one analogy might be the Detroit Lions.
They don't attract very many good free agents (matriculants), but there are still some stars and All Pros (top students). Every once in awhile, there's even Barry Sanders (Steinberg, Bakotic, etc). However, if the general reputation and usual season record (board scores) stays low, it's tough for the team to improve since they don't attract much top talent. Schools don't have a draft (where they actively select talent); they are metapohorically limited to free agents (who wants to go there). That doesn't mean that the team isn't trying to win and bring in players (students), a stadium (facilities), and coaches (faculty) who can do quite well, though...

I refer to 4 GRADUATES, in GOOD STANDING. They felt they would have received a much better education elsewhere.

I am not bashing Barry, just passing on info from some who attended, graduated, and (according to them) did fine. To each his own.

 

[krabmas]

I worte a really long reply to Feli but it got lost in cyberspace. I'll try again...

My oppinions of Barry are from 1 person that transferred to NYCPM from Barry, a student that transferred from NYCPM to Barry, and the APMSA reps and student council presidents. I think the people that have been to more than one school can be very reliable - they have seen it done more than one way for themselves - not heresay. The other resourses are pretty top sstudents and do not have great things to say.

As Jonwill and Feelgood and I have repeatidly stated, any school has good and bad graduates. All the schools have produced great leaders in the field and all the schools have their black sheep.

If you have a coice of location and are not stuck in one place then go to the school with the best rep, for the best chance at success (good residency). If you must stay in one location then take your chances.

Most people come on here asking for advice with rankings because ...
1) they want re-assurance that they are not making a terrible mistake
2) they want to pick the best school for the best chance of success
3) they want to start a fight?

We all know that at any school you can become successful by why put yourself thru such a more challanging route if you have the oppurtunity not to.

NYCPM has the same problem as Barry - not being able to recruit top candidates. If you are a top candidate, why would you want to go to a school with a less respected reputation? Why would you want to take the chance? Why should you take the chance.

If I was entering now - in hind site - I would pick a sure thing. That being said, I picked NYCPM because I wanted to live in NYC and did very little research on the field of Podiatry. In the end, I am happy with the decision but along the way I doubted my choice, often.

 

[Feli]

...We all know that at any school you can become successful by why put yourself thru such a more challanging route if you have the oppurtunity not to.

NYCPM has the same problem as Barry - not being able to recruit top candidates. If you are a top candidate, why would you want to go to a school with a less respected reputation? Why would you want to take the chance? Why should you take the chance.

If I was entering now - in hind site - I would pick a sure thing. That being said, I picked NYCPM because I wanted to live in NYC and did very little research on the field of Podiatry. In the end, I am happy with the decision but along the way I doubted my choice, often.

I wholeheartedly agree. That was basically my point here:

If you are young and single top pod student applicant with no ties to a location, then, yes, I'd certainly apply to Scholl, DMU, or AZPod. On the other hand, if you are a less than stellar applicant or just someone who doesn't want to move a thousand miles from friends/family/climate you like, then you can do fine at other programs if you take it upon yourself to learn the material.

I just don't like the connotation in some threads that all students from school X are dumb or all from school Y are bright. I think there are exceptions to every rule, and some programs get an unfairly bad rap despite having the tools in place for a decent education.

I'm obviously in a similar boat as you: I want to be a $35 tank of gas away from my parents for 4 years - not a $400 plane ticket away. It's said that hindsight is 20/20, but I'm not so sure I'd choose a different pod school if I had to do it again. To me, getting helpful scholarships, going to a private Catholic university, going to the beach or playing outdoor soccer in January, etc has its advantages.

 

[Feli]

I refer to 4 GRADUATES, in GOOD STANDING. They felt they would have received a much better education elsewhere.

I am not bashing Barry, just passing on info form some who attended, graduated, and (according to them) did fine. To each his own.

I was just asking; thanks for clairifying.

It's good that, even as a pre-pod, you are already talking to so many DPM graduates. That helps you gain knowledge and perspective.

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

I was just asking; thanks for clairifying.

It's good that, even as a pre-pod, you are already talking to so many DPM graduates. That helps you gain knowledge and perspective.

No worries 👍

I agree w/ you; you can be a great student and get the education of anyone else if you work hard enough. I just look at the old saying "work smarter, not harder". To me, it just seems it is a little easier if you go to some schools other than others.

Also, location is HUGE! I wanted to go to DMU,AZPOD or Temple. There were many factors in my decision, but in the end, one of them was to go to AZ and only be one state away from family. (gradually breaking the umbilical cord between my wife and mother in law

So, hope my responses did not seem attacking. I agree that you can get where you want via hard work even if your school is not "the best". It might just take a little more.

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

I just don't like the connotation in some threads that all students from school X are dumb or all from school Y are bright. I think there are exceptions to every rule, and some programs get an unfairly bad rap despite having the tools in place for a decent education.

I hope none of my comments rubbed you that way... I definetly am not naive enough to think that just because you go to this school or that, you are dumb or bright.😀

 

[densmore22]

I can point out a handful or more of students in my class that I think shouldn't have gotten in ANYWHERE. To reiterate, good students + bad students = every school. To the prepods out here, if you're looking for an answer that will inspire and ignite your love for podiatry, you won't find here. You need to get out and shadow some Podiatrists and figure out for yourself if Podiatry is the career path for you, if you want to work with feet for the next 35-40 years (God willing). If/when you get into a school and classes start, work your f*cking ass off and get the best grades you can get. When you get there, you'll over study at first, but that's ok, it's better to be overprepared then under. If you're worried about having a social life, that just depends on your own ability to multitask and minimanage your studies vs. your personal life. You'll have one. If you get good grades, you'll do great no matter what school you go too. I think Feli is a great resource for people considering Barry. Like stated before, in choosing a school, there's a lot more involved than just "rankings."

 

[iyyi]

I can point out a handful or more of students in my class that I think shouldn't have gotten in ANYWHERE.

What is it that some of your classmates are doing or have done, that you don't think they deserve their spot in any school? Whether or not your statement is true, do you feel its appropriate to make statements like this? Just wondering.

 

[Cheetos]

is there a ranking of pod schools available? which do you guys think is the best and why? oh yeah and whats up w Barry? it seems like no one has anything good to say about that school....

Pod School Rankings for the student who busts his/her arse with studying, enjoying Podiatric Medicine, and passing boards:
#1 DMU
#1 AZPOD
#1 Scholl
#1 Temple
#1 NYCPM
#1 Ohio
#1 Barry
#1 CSPM

Pod School Rankings for the student who believes pod school and boards are as easy it was to get in:
#8 DMU
#8 AZPOD
#8 Scholl
#8 Temple
#8 NYCPM
#8 Ohio
#8 Barry
#8 CSPM

Hence, as mentioned before, every school has its own unique cirriculum, therefore, these programs are only there to mold you into the practioner you are to become. From there, it is up to the student to fine tune this molding by going the extra mile and getting the most out of the program. That is the purpose of the mutiple part license exams.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I can point out a handful or more of students in my class that I think shouldn't have gotten in ANYWHERE.

What is it that some of your classmates are doing or have done, that you don't think they deserve their spot in any school? Whether or not your statement is true, do you feel its appropriate to make statements like this? Just wondering.

👍

 

[krabmas]

I can point out a handful or more of students in my class that I think shouldn't have gotten in ANYWHERE.

What is it that some of your classmates are doing or have done, that you don't think they deserve their spot in any school? Whether or not your statement is true, do you feel its appropriate to make statements like this? Just wondering.

this statement can be applied to any medical school, any dental school, any optometry school, any undergrad college.... and even some high level jobs at any fortune 500 company

There are always people that interview very well but that is all they can do - interview.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Pod School Rankings for the student who busts his/her arse with studying, enjoying Podiatric Medicine, and passing boards:
#1 DMU
#1 AZPOD
#1 Scholl
#1 Temple
#1 NYCPM
#1 Ohio
#1 Barry
#1 CSPM

Pod School Rankings for the student who believes pod school and boards are as easy it was to get in:
#8 DMU
#8 AZPOD
#8 Scholl
#8 Temple
#8 NYCPM
#8 Ohio
#8 Barry
#8 CSPM

Hence, as mentioned before, every school has its own unique cirriculum, therefore, these programs are only there to mold you into the practioner you are to become. From there, it is up to the student to fine tune this molding by going the extra mile and getting the most out of the program. That is the purpose of the mutiple part license exams.

I must disagree. While I think that all schools offer a ton of opportunities; they are not completely equal. There are still schools that offer more opportunities, have nicer facilities, have better rotations, ect.

Unique curriculum does not always mean better or good curriculum. I'm sorry but I'm not into dentist teaching anatomy or working to keep podiatric medical education separate from allopathic/osteopathic medicine.

 

[Cheetos]

I must disagree. While I think that all schools offer a ton of opportunities; they are not completely equal. There are still schools that offer more opportunities, have nicer facilities, have better rotations, ect.

Unique curriculum does not always mean better or good curriculum. I'm sorry but I'm not into dentist teaching anatomy or working to keep podiatric medical education separate from allopathic/osteopathic medicine.

I must agree with what you are saying. 👍 I mean why else did I choose AZPOD over CSPM. Main factor was the DO integrated program even though they were both not too far from home. It is sometimes easy to confuse and assume that uniqueness = quality. I was thinking more along the lines of one student graduating from one program can still be as successful as another student graduating from another program. The program can sure be an influential factor but another factor is the student's own ambitions. Hope that clarifies things up.

 

[densmore22]

I can point out a handful or more of students in my class that I think shouldn't have gotten in ANYWHERE.

What is it that some of your classmates are doing or have done, that you don't think they deserve their spot in any school? Whether or not your statement is true, do you feel its appropriate to make statements like this? Just wondering.

I do feel it's appropriate to make statements like this because this statement is my opinion. Ultimately they are here and going to be obtaining an advanced degree in medicine. Furthermore, their maturity level, dedication to classroom work, test scores (and I know what their test scores are) and general dexterity are less than what I feel the standard should be. Some are more worried about the social scene than the next test we have coming up others just seem to want to coast by with low 70's. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fly for me. I like to go out and have a good time as much as the next guy, but I always make sure that I double up or make up for what I didn't do another time. I see some of these people not even interested in podiatry, they used it as a last resort to "practice medicine." Again, that doesn't fly well with me. Would you really want someone to be scoping your ankle or cutting into your foot that doesn't know where the neurovascular bundles run? I sure as hell wouldn't and the sad thing is, that as a patient, you don't know your doctor's abilities until it's too late. You just have to go on good faith that these people did decent enough to pass, well they may have passed and even passed boards, but does that make them competent as a provider? Healer? Physician? The truth is, I feel that these are the people that are going to be sued first out of our class and thinking ahead, it's just sad. I seriously hope I'm wrong because I don't wish that on ANYONE.

 

[iyyi]

I do feel it's appropriate to make statements like this because this statement is my opinion. Ultimately they are here and going to be obtaining an advanced degree in medicine. Furthermore, their maturity level, dedication to classroom work, test scores (and I know what their test scores are) and general dexterity are less than what I feel the standard should be. Some are more worried about the social scene than the next test we have coming up others just seem to want to coast by with low 70's. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fly for me. I like to go out and have a good time as much as the next guy, but I always make sure that I double up or make up for what I didn't do another time. I see some of these people not even interested in podiatry, they used it as a last resort to "practice medicine." Again, that doesn't fly well with me. Would you really want someone to be scoping your ankle or cutting into your foot that doesn't know where the neurovascular bundles run? I sure as hell wouldn't and the sad thing is, that as a patient, you don't know your doctor's abilities until it's too late. You just have to go on good faith that these people did decent enough to pass, well they may have passed and even passed boards, but does that make them competent as a provider? Healer? Physician? The truth is, I feel that these are the people that are going to be sued first out of our class and thinking ahead, it's just sad. I seriously hope I'm wrong because I don't wish that on ANYONE.

How does your opinion justify for making such a bold statement that some of your classmates should not have got in anywhere?

Such a bold statement doesn't belong here or anywhere. That is just something better off kept to yourself, whether its true or not. In my opinion, its disrespectful to your classmates, to your admission committee/faculty, and to your school who feel that these students our worthy of a seat in your class.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

How does your opinion justify for making such a bold statement that some of your classmates should not have got in anywhere?

Easy answer! It's his opinion and he has the right to express it even if people are offended or disagree just as you have the right to voice your opinion against his.

 

[krabmas]

How does your opinion justify for making such a bold statement that some of your classmates should not have got in anywhere?

Such a bold statement doesn't belong here or anywhere. That is just something better off kept to yourself, whether its true or not. In my opinion, its disrespectful to your classmates, to your admission committee/faculty, and to your school who feel that these students our worthy of a seat in your class.

It is not just his opinion it is the truth. It would be his opinion if he started naming names but since it is such a broad statement that is true for any profession then why is it so disrespectful? Maybe the admissions committee is doing a poor job, so what if densemore states that?

At least he is talking about his own school which I do as well on occassion. I think it is worse when we start bashing each others schools based on rumors.

Lets not pretend that any school is perfect MD, DO, DPM PhD blah blah blah. Where ever you go there will be slackers even in MENSA.

 

[iyyi]

I'm not saying any school or any one thing is perfect. I actually agree with densmore and know exactly where he is coming from. But, I don't think its appropriate too comment on other students about whether they belong or not at a school or at any school for that matter.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I do feel it's appropriate to make statements like this because this statement is my opinion. Ultimately they are here and going to be obtaining an advanced degree in medicine. Furthermore, their maturity level, dedication to classroom work, test scores (and I know what their test scores are) and general dexterity are less than what I feel the standard should be. Some are more worried about the social scene than the next test we have coming up others just seem to want to coast by with low 70's. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fly for me. I like to go out and have a good time as much as the next guy, but I always make sure that I double up or make up for what I didn't do another time. I see some of these people not even interested in podiatry, they used it as a last resort to "practice medicine." Again, that doesn't fly well with me. Would you really want someone to be scoping your ankle or cutting into your foot that doesn't know where the neurovascular bundles run? I sure as hell wouldn't and the sad thing is, that as a patient, you don't know your doctor's abilities until it's too late. You just have to go on good faith that these people did decent enough to pass, well they may have passed and even passed boards, but does that make them competent as a provider? Healer? Physician? The truth is, I feel that these are the people that are going to be sued first out of our class and thinking ahead, it's just sad. I seriously hope I'm wrong because I don't wish that on ANYONE.

My issue with your comments is you have no idea what effort or grades they are recieving. I was shocked to find out some of the people in the upper level of my class. Some people like to talk a big game, or they haven't left behind the "high school" thought that not caring is cool. I get crap everyday b/c I do care.

I would also not take the 1st year into account b/c some people handle stress in different ways. So they might be just trying to survive. I know a lot of DMU students who got 70s but know more about medicine than I do. And care more about patients and podiatry than I do.

Des, you need to understand you are a gunner. You are competitive and want to be the best. That is not true for everyone. Like you said they want to skate by. But realize that they will are your classmates and you may need them one day. I think that you would be shocked if where some of the most famous pods, DOs, and MDs graduate in there class. So you must make sure you don't poop where you lie.

 

[doclm]

I do feel it's appropriate to make statements like this because this statement is my opinion. Ultimately they are here and going to be obtaining an advanced degree in medicine. Furthermore, their maturity level, dedication to classroom work, test scores (and I know what their test scores are) and general dexterity are less than what I feel the standard should be. Some are more worried about the social scene than the next test we have coming up others just seem to want to coast by with low 70's. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fly for me. I like to go out and have a good time as much as the next guy, but I always make sure that I double up or make up for what I didn't do another time. I see some of these people not even interested in podiatry, they used it as a last resort to "practice medicine." Again, that doesn't fly well with me. Would you really want someone to be scoping your ankle or cutting into your foot that doesn't know where the neurovascular bundles run? I sure as hell wouldn't and the sad thing is, that as a patient, you don't know your doctor's abilities until it's too late. You just have to go on good faith that these people did decent enough to pass, well they may have passed and even passed boards, but does that make them competent as a provider? Healer? Physician? The truth is, I feel that these are the people that are going to be sued first out of our class and thinking ahead, it's just sad. I seriously hope I'm wrong because I don't wish that on ANYONE.

I totally agree with your thinking. I also do put these general standards on all medical professionals, MD/DO/DPM/PA/DMD/ect. I am not going to lie, I see the same thing happening with a few people at Scholl as well and don't see the "health provider" characteristics in them. There are always the ones who want to be politicians and run for every possible position, not caring about their education ("as much as they should be"). Also, there are the ones who seem like they went to school to socialize and are more concentrated on talking with each other in class than listening to the Profs. Overall I do see people who I don't think deserve the same thing I do. However, this is not just DPM's. I actually see this going on in the MD program as well.

However, in the end when it comes time to do clinical work, we'll see who will shine. It will take more than looking pretty and acting overly well mannered to handle being grilled with medical questions.

Hey, when I worked at my last job, within a "elite" medical community I knew a few doctors that I don't think deserve to be there. I think this phenomenon is everywhere, not just Podiatry.

 

[doclm]

edit..

 

[iyyi]

My issue with your comments is you have no idea what effort or grades they are recieving..... Some people like to talk a big game, or they haven't left behind the "high school" thought that not caring is cool.

👍

I guess this goes back to the old saying to never judge a book by its cover!

 

[densmore22]

I'm a gunner huh? Since when did ambition and caring turn into being a gunner. I'm by no means in the top 10 and after this next 3 weeks I'd be surprised if I was in the top 20 of my class. I care about podiatry and don't want to see it brought down by a few bad apples. I believe the saying goes that you can do something perfect 1000 times, but if you screw up just once, that's what people will remember. I can apply that to people practicing. I think the general podiatry student is awesome, but when you see someone that you just don't think should be here and you know that they're going to be perceived by the community as a "podiatry student" then it just makes us look bad. I don't think DMU does a bad job at admissions, I think they do a damn great job at it, but ultimately it's a business and I think some people might have gotten in just because they can pay and not based on merrit. I know of one person in my class where this was the case, it's not a secret throughout our class who that person is and when/if you should ever meet this person, I believe you will be able to tell just based on a quick conversation. Maybe saying these people shouldn't have gotten in anywhere is harsh, but again, I just get tired of hearing from people that "I got accepted into 3 medical schools" well come to find out they got out right rejected from all med schools they applied to and they're using podiatry as a last resort. I'm not a fan of the last resort, it's this or nothing, well maybe you should choose another profession. We've had enough negativity in our profession and I think podiatry is finally on the upswing and has and is going to do some amazing things and maybe those "lesser qualified" individuals will become the next best thing in our profession. I know 1st year is a toss up, you get told (to death) that all you have to do is survive and get through. That's ok I suppose, everyone has their hardships and the jury will be out next year (mostly podiatry related classes at DMU) as to who will flourish and who will flounder. No one is immune to the flounder, but I think how you do in first year sets you up for how you will do in 2nd year and then 3rd year is building on the 1st two years, it's all relative. But to come on here and tell me that my OPINION shouldn't be said is arrogant. What makes my opinion any less valid than the next guys? I thought that's what the whole point of this forum is? To pull the opinions of various people, to me, that's how you learn a lot about your profession and what's going on, the issues involved. I'm not inciting anyone in my class, I did say name, gender, age, anything, you wouldn't be able to tell them from the next student, I'm merely trying to state that I have a specific example to back up my claim is all. Ok, my rant is done. Time for more flaming.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I'm a gunner huh? Since when did ambition and caring turn into being a gunner. I'm by no means in the top 10 and after this next 3 weeks I'd be surprised if I was in the top 20 of my class. I care about podiatry and don't want to see it brought down by a few bad apples. I believe the saying goes that you can do something perfect 1000 times, but if you screw up just once, that's what people will remember. I can apply that to people practicing. I think the general podiatry student is awesome, but when you see someone that you just don't think should be here and you know that they're going to be perceived by the community as a "podiatry student" then it just makes us look bad. I don't think DMU does a bad job at admissions, I think they do a damn great job at it, but ultimately it's a business and I think some people might have gotten in just because they can pay and not based on merrit. I know of one person in my class where this was the case, it's not a secret throughout our class who that person is and when/if you should ever meet this person, I believe you will be able to tell just based on a quick conversation. Maybe saying these people shouldn't have gotten in anywhere is harsh, but again, I just get tired of hearing from people that "I got accepted into 3 medical schools" well come to find out they got out right rejected from all med schools they applied to and they're using podiatry as a last resort. I'm not a fan of the last resort, it's this or nothing, well maybe you should choose another profession. We've had enough negativity in our profession and I think podiatry is finally on the upswing and has and is going to do some amazing things and maybe those "lesser qualified" individuals will become the next best thing in our profession. I know 1st year is a toss up, you get told (to death) that all you have to do is survive and get through. That's ok I suppose, everyone has their hardships and the jury will be out next year (mostly podiatry related classes at DMU) as to who will flourish and who will flounder. No one is immune to the flounder, but I think how you do in first year sets you up for how you will do in 2nd year and then 3rd year is building on the 1st two years, it's all relative. But to come on here and tell me that my OPINION shouldn't be said is arrogant. What makes my opinion any less valid than the next guys? I thought that's what the whole point of this forum is? To pull the opinions of various people, to me, that's how you learn a lot about your profession and what's going on, the issues involved. I'm not inciting anyone in my class, I did say name, gender, age, anything, you wouldn't be able to tell them from the next student, I'm merely trying to state that I have a specific example to back up my claim is all. Ok, my rant is done. Time for more flaming.

My point was not to sensor your comments. I probably would have been someone you thought was lazy. I think that at least at DMU you have to wait and see how people are in the 2nd year when you get into separate classes. Heck, one of the best students in our class was the guy who always walked in late during the 2nd year. So you might have been impressed in the 1st year and changed your opinion the next year. He is a super nice and funnyg guy but just needs to wake up 5 minutes earlier.

 

[krabmas]

I'm a gunner huh? Since when did ambition and caring turn into being a gunner. I'm by no means in the top 10 and after this next 3 weeks I'd be surprised if I was in the top 20 of my class. I care about podiatry and don't want to see it brought down by a few bad apples. I believe the saying goes that you can do something perfect 1000 times, but if you screw up just once, that's what people will remember. I can apply that to people practicing. I think the general podiatry student is awesome, but when you see someone that you just don't think should be here and you know that they're going to be perceived by the community as a "podiatry student" then it just makes us look bad. I don't think DMU does a bad job at admissions, I think they do a damn great job at it, but ultimately it's a business and I think some people might have gotten in just because they can pay and not based on merrit. I know of one person in my class where this was the case, it's not a secret throughout our class who that person is and when/if you should ever meet this person, I believe you will be able to tell just based on a quick conversation. Maybe saying these people shouldn't have gotten in anywhere is harsh, but again, I just get tired of hearing from people that "I got accepted into 3 medical schools" well come to find out they got out right rejected from all med schools they applied to and they're using podiatry as a last resort. I'm not a fan of the last resort, it's this or nothing, well maybe you should choose another profession. We've had enough negativity in our profession and I think podiatry is finally on the upswing and has and is going to do some amazing things and maybe those "lesser qualified" individuals will become the next best thing in our profession. I know 1st year is a toss up, you get told (to death) that all you have to do is survive and get through. That's ok I suppose, everyone has their hardships and the jury will be out next year (mostly podiatry related classes at DMU) as to who will flourish and who will flounder. No one is immune to the flounder, but I think how you do in first year sets you up for how you will do in 2nd year and then 3rd year is building on the 1st two years, it's all relative. But to come on here and tell me that my OPINION shouldn't be said is arrogant. What makes my opinion any less valid than the next guys? I thought that's what the whole point of this forum is? To pull the opinions of various people, to me, that's how you learn a lot about your profession and what's going on, the issues involved. I'm not inciting anyone in my class, I did say name, gender, age, anything, you wouldn't be able to tell them from the next student, I'm merely trying to state that I have a specific example to back up my claim is all. Ok, my rant is done. Time for more flaming.

I agree with you that podiatry has gotten negative press and an unfair trial at points.

Do any of you watch "little people" on TLC? An episode was on this weekend when Zach(little person) started playing soccer for his high school team with his twin brother (normal- non-little person). Zach was talking to his mom and grandfather telling them that his team mates will not listen to him and even if he did something right and great 20 times if he screwed up once that was it that is all they remember.

I think that is true of podiatry. It is an uphill battle. It is getting better but still not equal.

And, unfortunately the majority of pod grads and the majority of MD and DO grads do not go to school with each other in combined programs. So the majority of doctors do not know what our curriculum entails.

I was asked just yesterday by a FMG about my education and in that question she stated that pod and MD school should be combined and why is it separate and if it was combined pods would have a better understanding of the whole body. (come to think of it, I think she went to the same school of run on sentences and questions as Cool-VKB (JK)).
And along with all that, she continued to say, but you are limited in scope and only learn from here to here - pointing at the foot and leg.

So I went into the history of podiatry and why it is separate and then told her, but you are limited in scope as well. She did not really like that answer.

I really think that she had trouble understanding that even though we are limited in scope we still must know physiology and biochemistry and histology...

The whole thing about them not being there and not knowing what we learn is troubling for them.


Sometimes after meeting some of the med students and residents, I wonder "do they learn anything?" not all of them are so bright or so gung ho to learn everything. Some just want to pass and have an attitude of Cs = degrees. Fortunately for them the one bad doctor won't ruin the whole profession. For pods it can. When I started pod school I thought this way of thinking was crap, obviously I am starting to believe it.