podiatry as a profession

[beb]

Hello all-

I absolutey love the podiatry profession and absoultely plan on venturing into the application process next fall.

Before I 100% make this my final decision I was curious as to the following:

What can I expect my starting salary to be in the neighborhood of right after schooling? What can I expect it to reach its peak at if one day I have a private practice in NYC?

Is it true that podiatrists on average earn a higher income than some MDs that do not specialize like internists and pediatricians?

Do you think respect for the profession in society is honestly increasing or dwindling?

While I know people should go into work for love of the profession, I do have to consider a potential family life and making a big enough salary to support my family and my future endeavors.

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[krabmas]

Hello all-

I absolutey love the podiatry profession and absoultely plan on venturing into the application process next fall.

Before I 100% make this my final decision I was curious as to the following:

What can I expect my starting salary to be in the neighborhood of right after schooling? What can I expect it to reach its peak at if one day I have a private practice in NYC?

Is it true that podiatrists on average earn a higher income than some MDs that do not specialize like internists and pediatricians?

Do you think respect for the profession in society is honestly increasing or dwindling?

While I know people should go into work for love of the profession, I do have to consider a potential family life and making a big enough salary to support my family and my future endeavors.

Many of these questions have been answered and discussed to death already and a search would get you your answers.

I'll give you my oppinion but I'd recommend searching the archives.

About the money -
Podiatry is procedural medicine and for that reason it is possible to earn more money than the general practicioner. Nothing is a garuntee. In NYC some pods do extremely well but this is due to marketing (maybe cosmetic podiatry and cash for services) and business savvy and not necessarily just the art of practicing podiatry. Fortunately even the orthos in NY are starting to hire pods. If you start your own practice in NYC there will be high overhead and harder to make money due to high costs of doing business. The field of medicine is going computerized and high tech which increases the private practitioners cost, it is more finiancially secure to go into a large practice.

I like to think the average salary after graduation will be $150K after combining salary and bonuses. But this is for the 3 year residency grad who worked very hard and knows their stuff. Not all pods will get this.

About the respect -
For the most part no one will say to your face anything completely degrading but they may behind your back. I just finished my general surgery rotation in a NYC hospital and the residents hate medicine department more than anybody in the hospital. I never heard them complain too much about the pods. In general all the different specialties think that the next is incompetant but only behind their backs. The people that respect podiatry the least are the ones that have met an incompetant one and/or know nothing about our training. I had to explain the process of schooling and residency almost every day to the MDs. I frequently got asked - why do I need a general surgery rotation? I would commonly answer - Why do the med students need a general surgery rotation, Most of them will not be doing any kind of surgery once in practice? And then continued to explain that we do rotations in general, ortho, vascular, plastic surgery in residency so it is very applicable for pods. This usually makes them understand.

As long as pods continue to advance the profession and educate the public about our profession and training the respect will continue.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

Thanks for that explanation, krabmas. People like you are what motivate pre-pods such as myself and others to go into this field. You will be a great physician in the future from the way you explain and state things.

My respect,

 

[krabmas]

Thanks for that explanation, krabmas. People like you are what motivate pre-pods such as myself and others to go into this field. You will be a great physician in the future from the way you explain and state things.

My respect,

Thanks, I love compliments. Just hope my head doesn't explode.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

LOL We all deserve them once in a while.

Have a good weekend, good sir.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

good sir.

Madam

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

Madam

Reminds me of a stale joke.

Knock knock
Who's there?
Madam
Madam who?
Madam foot is stuck in the door!

Man that is rough.

 

[krabmas]

LOL We all deserve them once in a while.

Have a good weekend, good sir.

I am woman, hear me roar

Thanks Feelgood.

 

[alparkeruab]

Many of these questions have been answered and discussed to death already and a search would get you your answers.

I'll give you my oppinion but I'd recommend searching the archives.

About the money -
Podiatry is procedural medicine and for that reason it is possible to earn more money than the general practicioner. Nothing is a garuntee. In NYC some pods do extremely well but this is due to marketing (maybe cosmetic podiatry and cash for services) and business savvy and not necessarily just the art of practicing podiatry. Fortunately even the orthos in NY are starting to hire pods. If you start your own practice in NYC there will be high overhead and harder to make money due to high costs of doing business. The field of medicine is going computerized and high tech which increases the private practitioners cost, it is more finiancially secure to go into a large practice.

I like to think the average salary after graduation will be $150K after combining salary and bonuses. But this is for the 3 year residency grad who worked very hard and knows their stuff. Not all pods will get this.

About the respect -
For the most part no one will say to your face anything completely degrading but they may behind your back. I just finished my general surgery rotation in a NYC hospital and the residents hate medicine department more than anybody in the hospital. I never heard them complain too much about the pods. In general all the different specialties think that the next is incompetant but only behind their backs. The people that respect podiatry the least are the ones that have met an incompetant one and/or know nothing about our training. I had to explain the process of schooling and residency almost every day to the MDs. I frequently got asked - why do I need a general surgery rotation? I would commonly answer - Why do the med students need a general surgery rotation, Most of them will not be doing any kind of surgery once in practice? And then continued to explain that we do rotations in general, ortho, vascular, plastic surgery in residency so it is very applicable for pods. This usually makes them understand.

As long as pods continue to advance the profession and educate the public about our profession and training the respect will continue.

I recently shadowed a podiatrist practicing in Alabama, and he told me that the starting salary for a podiatrist out of residency would probably average $50,000-$75,000. To your knowledge, is this figure accurate? It seems a good bit lower than what I've heard from other sources..

 

[Britton]

Here in east PA (not Philly), that is exactly what a new DPM migt expect to earn. In fact I have been told between $45, 000 and 65, 000. (In fact I give TUSPM a lot of credit, because we even talked about this pay scale at my interview among other applicants from PA). Also I'm sure it is dependant on "exact" location and skills. Most of the DPMs in my area do general pod care including nursing homes and hospitals and they told me as a newbe that is what I can expect to make if I want to do that type of work. They also told me that some surgical skills could play into that, but don't hold out on it. I do not know everything about podiatry, but I do take advise and I am honest about what was told to me.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Every CPMS graduate I've talked to has started over $100K. One doctor billed for over $2.5 million; remember you get paid about 50% of what you bill and he works for a multispecialty group so he only makes a percentage of that. So if his second year of practice he is probably making over $250K.

 

[krabmas]

I recently shadowed a podiatrist practicing in Alabama, and he told me that the starting salary for a podiatrist out of residency would probably average $50,000-$75,000. To your knowledge, is this figure accurate? It seems a good bit lower than what I've heard from other sources..

Most contracts go something like this...

50(ish)K for a base salary then a certain percentage maybe 20% of everything you bring into the practice over 150K. What ever your base salary is you must bring in 3x that for it to be worth it to the practice. Some contracts will give you 15% of everything over 3x your base, then 20% of everything over 300K and so forth. Many pods make well over 50K their first year out.

Remember that the contract is only for one year. After that you renegotiate.

 

[War Eagle]

Every CPMS graduate I've talked to has started over $100K. One doctor billed for over $2.5 million; remember you get paid about 50% of what you bill and he works for a multispecialty group so he only makes a percentage of that. So if his second year of practice he is probably making over $250K.

May I ask in what part of the country he practices?

 

[jonwill]

I recently shadowed a podiatrist practicing in Alabama, and he told me that the starting salary for a podiatrist out of residency would probably average $50,000-$75,000. To your knowledge, is this figure accurate? It seems a good bit lower than what I've heard from other sources..

As stated, this is probably a base salary. With percentages and bonuses, you should make well over 100K. I find that especially "old school" podiatrists are known to give faulty info because they have not kept up with the profession and still think we're in the "good old days".

ABPS Survey's have shown that the average surgical podiatrist makes $190K. Or as a doc recently stated, "Out of a 3 year surgical residency, if you sign for less than six figures, you're a sucker."

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

May I ask in what part of the country he practices?

IL

I know another pod that is starting out at about $160K in a hospital. He is salaried w/o bonuses, but starting at $160K is nice. That is in IA.

Another pod I talked to told me he makes over $600K. He is in CO and flies to western NE and has an office around Denver.

Granted this is what they tell me, but I not know why they would lie to me.

 

[justincredible]

IL
Another pod I talked to told me he makes over $600K. He is in CO and flies to western NE and has an office around Denver.

What!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

What!

I can tell you for sure he makes enough to pay for his own private plane. He informed me on a number of ways to expand your business such as small community programs. You can get the community to pay for your travel expenses and guarantee a salary; if you bill more than the salary you obviously make more. He spends from one day a month to one day every other week flying into these communities. He owns a practice in the city.

He is a very smart business man. I know he owns more than just a few practices also.

Obviously this is not the norm; I just want to make a point that you can make a great living in podiatry. As I've stated before, I have not met a podiatrist that has graduated from CPMS (these are the only grads I know) that is not making over $100K starting.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

I currently work in two podiatry health clinics around campus as an aide to the Podiatric Assistant and help with patient seating in the other work place and from talking to the podiatrists in these clinics, the pay range does vary.
Most of the physicians that I talked to are post-residents, the one I closely work with is a graduate of OCPM and works with 2 surgical Pods. He takes care of the general cases (geriatric, diabetics, nursing home calls etc) and the other two take the lion's share in surgery and some general treatment. From talking to the surgeons (both own the clinic), and when asked how much they made they respectively said that it depends on year to year. Some years they each netted about ~220k and in some years they netted ~150k. Talking to the general podiatrist that recently finished his residency tho, he said his salary is 'good enough' for him, lol. He's netting around ~65k this year. I sympathize for him because all he ever talks about whenever I'm in the clinic is how badly in debt he is in loans (over 200k in debt) yet he recently bought a Mercedes E-series. ***SHRUGS***

 

[Creepyfootdr]

Forget money... I want to know what i'll be doing. Are trauma surgeries rare (or is there a possibility to get into trauma)? What about surgeries on the ankle? I realize every state is a little different on that one but is surgery such as Jonwill's picture performed by a podiatrist? Are meds prescribed or orders written by the podiatrist pertaining to diseases such as CHF or diabetes?

Does anyone know stats on job satisfaction compared to other medical specialties? (I only found info on MD/DO specialties)

Thanks for the help!

 

[APMAHelp]

Podiatric physicians often site their "options in practice" as one of the things they like best about their careers in podiatric medicine. You have the chance to choose the type of practice you want and then to go from there. For example, if you're interested in trauma, once you have your hospital credentials, you can then work with the ER and get on the call schedule for foot and ankle trauma (as long as the state law allows that). In a local practice that I've worked with, one of the doctors is really into trauma and so takes trauma call from the local hospital. He's done all kinds of interesting and complicated foot and ankle surgeries. The other doctor, who has "been there, done that" isn't interested in getting those calls and doesn't opt for that.

There is a good resource on the APMA website (www.apma.org/careers) called the 2005 Podiatric Practice Survey. There you can find answers to some of your questions. The APMA is also currently in the process of updating that survey to include information for 2007.

 

[ocwaveoc]

"New to the 2005 study is information about the members' starting salary as a first-year associate. Nearly one-third of the respondents reported a starting salary of $30,000 to $49,999. As expected, the most recent graduates reported the highest starting salaries, with podiatric physicians practicing fewer than 5 years reporting starting salaries of approximately $60,000."

This quote is straight from the AMPA website.
I've been inquiring about starting salaries of new grads (less than 5 yrs in practice) for some time and have gotten varying degree of responses (from $50K-150K/yr). I have a feeling the high end (150K/yr) is a very few exception. Or some people are trying to 'pump up' the profession...purhaps they are pod school recruiters...or just very proud of the profession. Whatever the reason, the bottom line is that the new pod grads make the above stated amount. AMPA is supposed to be the ultimate source, right?
I tend to believe them over any of these posters here. Don't get angry at my posting...I'm simply stating what AMPA states and what numerous responses I've gotten regarding new grad's salaries (how now all pod grads do surgical residencies...thus start at 6 figure income.....such statement just isn't consistent with the AMPA's info).

 

[IlizaRob]

You might want to read the post by Presby in the "salary" thread. It may give you a better idea of what your new discovery means. You need to remember that just because someone has a base salary of 60k, doesnt mean that is what they will make the first year. There are many other factors and incentives that play an important role when determinging ones salary. This isnt like receiving the same payback every month while working at the bank. I could give you anecdotal evidence but it would be just that, anecdotal.

As for the APMA, they also say that the average surgical pod makes 270K. If that is true, I dont care what my "starting" salary is if there is that much potential.

 

[NatCh]

Another pod I talked to told me he makes over $600K. He is in CO and flies to western NE and has an office around Denver.

Granted this is what they tell me, but I not know why they would lie to me.

That's a totally believable (albeit high) figure for gross collections before expenses, and an outstanding one if it's after expenses. It's definitely not the norm to take-home $600K though (but it's possible).

Making that kind of money takes more than having great surgical skill. It takes a lot of business savvy. My first few years out of Residency I made very little, but now (seven years later) I'm doing pretty well. Keeping overhead low is as important as billing high.

Most of the other DPMs I know made somewhere around $60k salary first year out as an Associate. It might be worth noting that NONE of the colleagues I know were satisfied with that first job, and ended up moving elsewhere eventually.

When asking about first year salary one also needs to have foresight to evaluate the cost of Partnership buy-in a few years down the road. Even if you get offered a high starting salary, it all goes back to your bosses if they have a high buy-in. "You want $150K + bennies now? No problem (we'll just get it back in three years by adding $200K to your Partnership buy-in)!

 

[APMAHelp]

Even though this thread is mostly for pre-podiatry students, it seems as if there are a lot of current students and DPMs reading along. Since that's the case, I'd like to suggest that if you ever have the opportunity, you should attend one of the lecture series programs sponsored by the Young Members. The next one is at the Western Podiatry Conference in Anaheim in June. These programs always have outstanding information for young DPMs and often have panel discussions of salary and partnerships. Recently there was a great discussion with a new partner and the "older" partner and salary was discussed. It was interesting to hear the differences of opinion, i.e. young guy buying in = "I'm bringing lots of new ideas and my training is better, so I deserve a lot of money," vs. old guy = "I built this practice for the last 20 years and my blood, sweat, tears and money went into it, so it's worth a lot."

The lecture was great because it really let everyone see the value of both their viewpoints and helped many of those in the audience that day get a better perspective. Try to get to one of these programs if you can.

 

[hokie4life]

I don't know if it's because it is true or just because people who know more people from the cali schools state higher salaries. I know salary will depend on the area you live but do you think it could be related to the pod school you attend? Will a temple or NY schooling still make you a favorable candidate for jobs in cali even though there is a great pod school there too?

Also, one of the initial questions that was posted along with the salary one was about the growth/scope of the field. From everything I've read in brochures and heard the podiatry field is indeed still growing, is this true?

 

[NatCh]

I don't know if it's because it is true or just because people who know more people from the cali schools state higher salaries. I know salary will depend on the area you live but do you think it could be related to the pod school you attend? Will a temple or NY schooling still make you a favorable candidate for jobs in cali even though there is a great pod school there too?

No. No way. Once you leave the academic setting no one is going to care where you went to school. Some people might be interested in where you did Residency (probably not). Better training may give you a bigger toolbox with nicer tools but mostly the amount of income you make depends upon practice management.

Even if you become an employee rather than a practice owner, if you have a bonus-for-production pay setup, you still need to be able to generate income to get into your bonus range. Some employers pay only a straight salary, but typically those salaries are relatively low.

If you want to entertain the notion of making a lot of money then you have to get away from the idea of "getting a job." You need to be a business owner to really make some lettuce.