Podiatry does NOT equal Medical school

[healthyfootdoc]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

For some time now I've been seeing my friends throw in the words "medical school" in their speech and all over facebook. I bite my tongue to be polite, but I really want them to say

"I am in podiatry school" loud and proud.

I'm a PODIATRY student. Not a MEDICAL student. I never hear my optometry, chiropractic, or dental school friends refer to themselves as "medical school" students... so why do podiatry students do it?

I feel it's deceptive to say "med" student. Our field is specialized in the care of feet. So why not be proud and be clear?

 

[amoebaman]

For some time now I've been seeing my friends throw in the words "medical school" in their speech and all over facebook. I bite my tongue to be polite, but I really want them to say

"I am in podiatry school" loud and proud.

I'm a PODIATRY student. Not a MEDICAL student. I never hear my optometry, chiropractic, or dental school friends refer to themselves as "medical school" students... so why do podiatry students do it?

I feel it's deceptive to say "med" student. Our field is specialized in the care of feet. So why not be proud and be clear?

I just posted this very question in the residency section. I should have just come here.

A quick google search brought this* up on 08/30/2010; and you'll be amazed at the audacity:

This lady thinks she's going to be a "doctor's wife" (technically true but all her online friends are MD/DO wives) and that her boyfriend is having such a tough time in " 4th year medical school" and "arranging away rotations" then some people who know her personally outed her in the comments that the dude is in podiatry. It's hilarious because although the terms she is using are technically correct (DPM students do aways, residencies, 4 yr rigorous program, etc) it is very deceiving when you are in a group of people that blog about the trials of traditional medical school.


*http://love3000milesapart.blogspot.com

 

[dyk343]

Here we go again....😴

 

[Untraditional]

For some time now I've been seeing my friends throw in the words "medical school" in their speech and all over facebook. I bite my tongue to be polite, but I really want them to say

"I am in podiatry school" loud and proud.

I'm a PODIATRY student. Not a MEDICAL student. I never hear my optometry, chiropractic, or dental school friends refer to themselves as "medical school" students... so why do podiatry students do it?

I feel it's deceptive to say "med" student. Our field is specialized in the care of feet. So why not be proud and be clear?

They do it for the same reason that NPs want to wear long coats and Chiropractors are suing to be called "Chiropractic physicians".... they want the respect and trust that comes with being a "real" doctor. To be honest it reflects poorly on someone's trade and professionalism to do this. If you have so little respect for your field that you're ashamed to admit you're a part of it, what does it say about your field? What does it say about you? That's what I'd ask those people.

 

[AGDPM]

For some time now I've been seeing my friends throw in the words "medical school" in their speech and all over facebook. I bite my tongue to be polite, but I really want them to say

"I am in podiatry school" loud and proud.

I'm a PODIATRY student. Not a MEDICAL student. I never hear my optometry, chiropractic, or dental school friends refer to themselves as "medical school" students... so why do podiatry students do it?

I feel it's deceptive to say "med" student. Our field is specialized in the care of feet. So why not be proud and be clear?

What are you confused about? List some references as to why podiatry and the other respected programs you mention are not considered medical student. Is medical student exclusive for MD-programs. I will agree that MD-programs is probably more rigorous, if not more mentally condescending, than podiatric medical schools. But I'm sure in orientation that you learned podiatry has come a long way. Look at some of the cases podiatrist do these days. Don't discredit your peers because they feel proud calling themselves medical students. But anyway i'm tried and want to take a nap. I'm proud to say day 1 as a student doctor, check. 🙂

 

[PodunkUDPM]

oh look, it's this thread again

 

[347932]

My take on the matter is this. In some of the schools the first two years are shared by podiatry and allopathic medical students. After year two, the paths diverge, BUT many of the rotations still focus on medical management and diagnosis.

Any good Podiatry residency shares similar rotations with our allopathic brothers and sisters as well for the first year. When I was a resident, I was the only resident in certain medical departments, so all the responsibilities were on my shoulders. No one cared that I was a D.P.M. They cared that I was a "Doctor".

Everyone does realize that Chiropractors can't prescribe meds, or do "procedures" outside the office setting right? Everyone realizes the the distinction of a "D.O." is one that is ONLY in the United States. No one else in the world even knows what a "D.O." is. So do they go to "med" school or not?

Call it whatever you want. Be an honorable person and practitioner and no one cares. Except maybe people on this forum.

 

[g squared 23]

During my first year and first year only, I found myself calling it medical school. Why? Did I have a deep-seated inferiority complex and try to convince myself I was something that I was not? Do I secretly hate podiatry and wish I got into real medical school? No. The reason is that our first year IS medical school. We took the exact same classes with the type A, self righteous, "real life" medical students (ex: the troll a few posts up) at our university. It didn't feel like podiatry school at all because it wasn't: it was just an intense general medical curriculum.

At this point as a third year, it is always called "podiatry school" because it is so different from a 3rd year medical curriculum. The training we are getting is way more focused and is geared to help us succeed in podiatric residency and then practice. I think anyone at this point calling it "medical school" is mistaken or using it as a (bad) pick-up line (having to explain to someone what podiatry school is not very conducive to impressing them).

Someone's wife calling it medical school is just trying to fit in. Calling herself a doctor's wife is accurate no matter how offended "real" doctors wives may get, but it's still sort of vain, so who really cares. Being deceptive? I wouldn't go that far. But any self respecting podiatrist who has a significant other that IS deceptive, feels like they deserve a higher status, and is embarrassed by their spouse's profession needs to "strengthen the pimp hand" or find someone who respects the work.

 

[healthyfootdoc]

If you have so little respect for your field that you're ashamed to admit you're a part of it, what does it say about your field? What does it say about you? That's what I'd ask those people.

I completely agree with you. While I too am in classes with medical students, I recognize that my degree will ultimately be a DPM and I am damn proud of it. I believe that those who call themselves med students do have an inferiority complex and perhaps shouldn't have entered this field if they weren't willing to accept that our jobs fulfill different duties. If the podiatrist doesn't respect his field, why should anyone else? DOs may not exist elsewhere in the world, but podiatry does.

Podiatry in an of itself is such a wonderful career where we can make a HUGE difference in people's lives and make a pretty buck... so why not educated others of the field and have the name be honored for itself?

 

[347932]

Ask yourselves this. When you are in private practice with all that awesome training, are you going to tell people you are a Podiatrist or a Foot and Ankle Surgeon?

Also, if you dig deep into what is going on in our profession, you will see that many are pushing to make changes to limit "Podiatrist" from our terminology.

I am proud to be a Podiatrist. I don't need to be called anything else. Yet many in our profession are pushing to change everything to "Foot and Ankle".

When asked what I do for a living, I tell people "I'm a Podiatrist and I do foot and ankle surgery." I do not say "I'm a foot and ankle surgeon who went to Podiatry school. "

What are you going to call yourself?

 

[FootDocStudent]

I completely agree with you. While I too am in classes with medical students, I recognize that my degree will ultimately be a DPM and I am damn proud of it. I believe that those who call themselves med students do have an inferiority complex and perhaps shouldn't have entered this field if they weren't willing to accept that our jobs fulfill different duties. If the podiatrist doesn't respect his field, why should anyone else? DOs may not exist elsewhere in the world, but podiatry does.

Podiatry in an of itself is such a wonderful career where we can make a HUGE difference in people's lives and make a pretty buck... so why not educated others of the field and have the name be honored for itself?

Dr House says: I love podiatry and I am an allopath MD. I see podiatrists coming up with the correct diagnosis on some rare systemic diseases I posted and I am impressed and give a new respect to podiatry! Better yet, the medical school curriculum should be REVAMPED! How about EVERY med student recieve an MD, but a subtitle in the diploma so that it will read: "Doctor of Medicine-Podiatry", or "Doctor of Medicine-Allopathy", or "Doctor of Medicine-Osteopathy"? That way every medical grad will have the title MD. The only difference is which specialty the MD grad will end up doing during internship and residency: a podiatry program, allopathaic program, or osteopathic program? That way, all this bickering of egos will stop and making patients feel better will run smoothly. I think my idea is BRILLIANT! And I missed my pop of Vicodin!

 

[Feli]

...In some of the schools the first two years are shared by podiatry and allopathic medical students...

In my experience, these are the schools whose students that seem to be the most fond of the "medical student" label.

...Any good Podiatry residency shares similar rotations with our allopathic brothers and sisters ...

Residency? Yes. However, this is just not true at all in the pod schools, though... and those are the culprits with the misrepresentation. An MD or DO students has over 12 months of clinical medicine rotations (internal, family, peds, ER, elective, sub-I, etc) by the time they graduate. Most students even have significantly more than that 12mo - assuming they do not plan to go into surgery and consequently spend many 4th year electives on surgery rotations.

On the other hand, most pod schools have 6 or fewer months of clinical medicine in 3rd and 4th year combined... some have fewer than 3mo of non-pod med and surg rotaitons (and the level of involvement of DPM versus MD/DO students can also be debated). As students, we are instead busy doing many months of pod office, wound care, pod surg externships, etc.

To gain "parity," we'd have to lose what makes us different and better trained for F&A. Take your pick; can't have your cake and eat it too. I usually just casually remind the "medical student"s who will be getting a DPM degree in a year or two that it's good to preface that with "podiatric" or "podiatry" to prevent confusion. If they insist on being a "medical student," then I'm happy to have them enlighten me on how to correct electrolytes, how to manage cardiac issues, etc. Generally, when the core pod students rotating at my program have finished their 19th abdominal pain consult on gen surg which will need a DRE, their 15th family med full H&P with 9pgs of paperwork afterwards, etc... they are more than happy to say they're a "just a podiatry student." 😉

 

[healthyfootdoc]

Thank you all for your input. I originally asked why pod students labeled themselves as med students. And though I will always call myself a podiatry student, I can see now why others say med.

Thanks again!

 

[347932]

Read this:

http://www.podiatrytoday.com/why-dpm-identity-crisis-much-ado-about-nothing#comment-836

 

[kvl1027]

There seems to be a similar trend in Pharmacy............

 

[UNVME2]

There seems to be a similar trend in Pharmacy............

That's a real head scratcher, though. Schools of podiatric medicine are more streamlined with allopathic medical schools than pharmacy schools. I mean, it's not even close. We're really talking 2 years of basic sciences and two years of clinical rotations plus 3 years of residency vs. a pharmacy education? Furthermore, unless you do a PharmD you're not even entitled to "Doctor."

I just heard about the term "clinical pharmacist" and I don't even know what to say other than it's silly that pharmacists think they are entitled to independent prescribing rights with little clinical education, the fact that they are calling themselves "medical students" is just...weird.

 

[UNVME2]

Read this:

http://www.podiatrytoday.com/why-dpm-identity-crisis-much-ado-about-nothing#comment-836

"I have never cared much about my identity as a professional", well that just about sums up his experience as a retired podiatrst. Needless to say his opinion does not take into account the changes in schooling and post graduate education. Furthermore, he has a history of downplaying podiatrists need for parity. Old conservative views die hard.

These issues don't matter to him because he wasn't trained as we are today and didn't have a 3 year residency available to him. Back then podiatry school didn't resemble allopathic medical school as we know it, especially in terms of post-graduate training.

Back then he was getting reimbursed 2x as much by medicare and medicaid, maybe even fee for service. So yeh, of course he doesn't care that Orthopaedic surgeons are getting reimbursed more for the same procedures, either because he couldn't do the procedure legally or he was getting paid more/patient to do other procedures. Well, that ain't health care today.

Our profession is changing and we need organization to get the respect we deserve.

We

 

[sideways]

Everyone realizes the the distinction of a "D.O." is one that is ONLY in the United States. No one else in the world even knows what a "D.O." is. So do they go to "med" school or not?

Wrong. DOs practice in ~45 countries all over the world. The common theme is they're all US-TRAINED physicians.

And yes they go to medical school. They're physicians.

 

[PeaJay]

UNVME2,

I agree that it is a little far fetched for a pharmacy student to refer to themselves as a medical student, but I think you are underestimating the training and knowledge of today's PharmD. In most cases they are more than capable of being a clinical pharmacist.

PeaJay

 

[347932]

"I have never cared much about my identity as a professional", well that just about sums up his experience as a retired podiatrst. Needless to say his opinion does not take into account the changes in schooling and post graduate education. Furthermore, he has a history of downplaying podiatrists need for parity. Old conservative views die hard.

These issues don't matter to him because he wasn't trained as we are today and didn't have a 3 year residency available to him. Back then podiatry school didn't resemble allopathic medical school as we know it, especially in terms of post-graduate training.

Back then he was getting reimbursed 2x as much by medicare and medicaid, maybe even fee for service. So yeh, of course he doesn't care that Orthopaedic surgeons are getting reimbursed more for the same procedures, either because he couldn't do the procedure legally or he was getting paid more/patient to do other procedures. Well, that ain't health care today.

Our profession is changing and we need organization to get the respect we deserve.

We

LOL wow...this was a tongue in cheek article written as a joke. Settle down, the article was meant to lighten the mood here. Yeesh.

 

[347932]

Wrong. DOs practice in ~45 countries all over the world. The common theme is they're all US-TRAINED physicians.

And yes they go to medical school. They're physicians.

I stand corrected, however, Medicare and most states see us as Physicians as well. So we go to medical school, right?

 

[jonwill]

I've said it in the past and stand by it, in the end, it just really doesn't matter. In this day and age, their are definitely more similarities than differences in the education. Especially the first couple of years. For the sake of argument, podiatrists find themselves in a very different perdicament than most other health care professionals. Because of their schooling/training, in most cases they end up in the same place as their MD/DO colleagues with the exception that they chose foot and ankle surgery from the beginning and MD/DO's decide towards the end of their schooling.

I'm a staff physician at the two major hospital systems in my area. I have admitting privileges and medically manage my patients. Podiatrists have full rx rights. Podiatrists are surgeons and take ER/Trauma call, as well as hospital floor call. They are consulted and work with many of their MD/DO counterparts. Podiatrists can be found as hospital CMO's and even Chief of Surgery. How is this any different than an MD/DO specialist?

I've got buddies that are general surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, hospitalists, anesthesiologists, etc and they all practice within their given scope and do a much better job than I would do. I practice within my scope and do a better job than any of them. And in the end, we all sit in the Physicians Lounge and make fun of each other.

 

[sideways]

I stand corrected, however, Medicare and most states see us as Physicians as well. So we go to medical school, right?

Um no. Going to medical school isn't about being called a physician. It's about developing an expansive fund of knowledge. While the modern day Podiatrist is certainly highly trained, the training is not the equivalent to that of an MD/DO. It's simply a matter of fact.

 

[Marry2Pod]

Not sure why this such a hot debate. Whether you are an MD/DO or DPM, you are a medical professional, treating patients/doing surgery, so its all semantics what kind of student you call yourself. And I do not think its about "equivalency" as it is "quality"... Just my two cents...

 

[Black Surgeon]

Um no. Going to medical school isn't about being called a physician. It's about developing an expansive fund of knowledge. While the modern day Podiatrist is certainly highly trained, the training is not the equivalent to that of an MD/DO. It's simply a matter of fact.

I completely disagree with this. If your definition of Medical school is exclusive to "expansive fund of knowledge", then I'd rather not get into this debate.

Nevertheless (adhering by your standards), podiatry students do indeed develop "an expansive fund of knowledge" that is vital to the practice of Medicine. This is one of those things that goes without saying.

I've said it in the past and stand by it, in the end, it just really doesn't matter. In this day and age, their are definitely more similarities than differences in the education. Especially the first couple of years. For the sake of argument, podiatrists find themselves in a very different perdicament than most other health care professionals. Because of their schooling/training, in most cases they end up in the same place as their MD/DO colleagues with the exception that they chose foot and ankle surgery from the beginning and MD/DO's decide towards the end of their schooling.

I'm a staff physician at the two major hospital systems in my area. I have admitting privileges and medically manage my patients. Podiatrists have full rx rights. Podiatrists are surgeons and take ER/Trauma call, as well as hospital floor call. They are consulted and work with many of their MD/DO counterparts. Podiatrists can be found as hospital CMO's and even Chief of Surgery. How is this any different than an MD/DO specialist?

I've got buddies that are general surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, hospitalists, anesthesiologists, etc and they all practice within their given scope and do a much better job than I would do. I practice within my scope and do a better job than any of them. And in the end, we all sit in the Physicians Lounge and make fun of each other.

I completely agree with this. 👍

 

[diabeticfootdr]

While the modern day Podiatrist is certainly highly trained, the training is not the equivalent to that of an MD/DO. It's simply a matter of fact.

Agree completely. The training of a modern day podiatrist is not equivalent to and MD/DO. It surpasses that of an MD/DO in the foot and ankle.

 

[347932]

Um no. Going to medical school isn't about being called a physician. It's about developing an expansive fund of knowledge. While the modern day Podiatrist is certainly highly trained, the training is not the equivalent to that of an MD/DO. It's simply a matter of fact.

Rather than stating an opinion, please point to where we can find this "matter of fact".

If anything, our profession is THE most highly trained of all medical professionals in the realm of foot and ankle pathology.

Even amongst the foot and ankle fellowship trained Ortho Surgeons. The AMA released a very interesting article (which I'm trying to find online) that stated that 80% of facilities that have Foot and Ankle Ortho Fellowships, had ZERO Foot and Ankle Fellowship trained attendings. Most of the Foot and Ankle Cases were Trauma, and many of these Ortho Fellows were trained by us lowly Podiatric Surgeons!

Matter of fact it is not. Please show me the data or call it what it is. Your opinion.

 

[Paulywog]

I can care less who has the hardest training for what profession. I tell people I'm in Podiatry school if I think they know about our profession. I tell people I am in medical school if I think they don't know much about our profession. I don't do it to "trick" them into thinking I am going to be an M.D. or D.O. They usually ask what part of medicine I am going into and I say Podiatry, which then leads into educating them about our profession. We are Medical students specializing in the lower extremity. We have the privilege of specializing our education while in school, inlike the other Medical specialties in the M.D., D.O. community.
Medical School = Yes. Podiatry School = Yes. I think it depends on the situation when I use the terms. I don't pretend to be an M.D. or D.O. I KNOW it is different and probably "harder" because of the broad scope they have to teach in the 4 years. Let people be prideful in saying they got into M.D. school and we didn't. I doesn't bother me because I didn't apply to M.D. school. Most people who think this way are going off of the older generations ideas about our profession.

 

[tkim]

Everyone realizes the the distinction of a "D.O." is one that is ONLY in the United States. No one else in the world even knows what a "D.O." is. So do they go to "med" school or not?

There exists Doctor of Osteopathy degrees in other countries - Canada, France, the UK, and Germany come to mind, that are limited solely to manipulation. The USDO is the only DO animal that has the training to practice medicine and surgery.

So yes, people outside of the US are familiar with DO's - just not the type we have here. Hence the confusion here and abroad, and the difficulty in securing international practice rights in countries that already have their version of DO.

And yes, we went to med school.

 

[347932]

There exists Doctor of Osteopathy degrees in other countries - Canada, France, the UK, and Germany come to mind, that are limited solely to manipulation. The USDO is the only DO animal that has the training to practice medicine and surgery.

So yes, people outside of the US are familiar with DO's - just not the type we have here. Hence the confusion here and abroad, and the difficulty in securing international practice rights in countries that already have their version of DO.

And yes, we went to med school.

Kind of sounds like Chiropody vs. Podiatry.

 

[tkim]

Kind of sounds like Chiropody vs. Podiatry.

Actually I would argue that the US DC is the foreign DO equivalent. A more apt comparison would be a foot masseuse/reflexologist compared to a podiatrist.

 

[jonwill]

Actually I would argue that the US DC is the foreign DO equivalent. A more apt comparison would be a foot masseuse/reflexologist compared to a podiatrist.

tkim, some very interesting posts above and things I actually didn't know. I went to Des Moines U so I have a lot of DO friends.

 

[sideways]

Rather than stating an opinion, please point to where we can find this "matter of fact".

If anything, our profession is THE most highly trained of all medical professionals in the realm of foot and ankle pathology.

Even amongst the foot and ankle fellowship trained Ortho Surgeons. The AMA released a very interesting article (which I'm trying to find online) that stated that 80% of facilities that have Foot and Ankle Ortho Fellowships, had ZERO Foot and Ankle Fellowship trained attendings. Most of the Foot and Ankle Cases were Trauma, and many of these Ortho Fellows were trained by us lowly Podiatric Surgeons!

Matter of fact it is not. Please show me the data or call it what it is. Your opinion.

Medicine is more than foot and ankle pathology.

 

[347932]

Medicine is more than foot and ankle pathology.

You have a knack for stating the obvious, sir.

Just to let you know, there are many times in private practice that I have diagnosed systemic problems based on their manifestations in the foot and/or ankle and have recommended care and followup with other medical practitioners that ultimately saved patients' lives. That's comprehensive medical care in my eyes, based on years of study, residency and experience.

It says in your sig that you are a Medical Student. I encourage you to broaden your mind and know that we are all on the same team. My agenda is the same as yours will be. To help our patients and work with other medical professionals towards the same goal.

 

[sideways]

You have a knack for stating the obvious, sir.

Just to let you know, there are many times in private practice that I have diagnosed systemic problems based on their manifestations in the foot and/or ankle and have recommended care and followup with other medical practitioners that ultimately saved patients' lives. That's comprehensive medical care in my eyes, based on years of study, residency and experience.

It says in your sig that you are a Medical Student. I encourage you to broaden your mind and know that we are all on the same team. My agenda is the same as yours will be. To help our patients and work with other medical professionals towards the same goal.

I don't recall putting down podiatry. Like you, I'm just standing up for MY profession. Podiatrists and MD/DOs don't go through the same training, that is indeed a fact. So I tend to speak out when I hear other professions jumping on the equivalency bandwagon, no matter how highly trained they may be.

 

[347932]

I don't recall putting down podiatry. Like you, I'm just standing up for MY profession. Podiatrists and MD/DOs don't go through the same training, that is indeed a fact. So I tend to speak out when I hear other professions jumping on the equivalency bandwagon, no matter how highly trained they may be.

We are ALL health care professionals with one goal in mind. The sooner you equate that with what you are claiming, the sooner all of us can reach that goal together.

Just as an aside, what is YOUR profession? You will be an M.D. I am a D.P.M. We are both doctors (well, you will be). Interestingly if you think a plastic surgeon has the same competency in medical matters as an Infectious Disease specialist, you are sorely mistaken. You will quickly learn this in your internship/residency. What subspecialty will you be? Will you have the same disdain for those that don't have the same proficiency as you based on what specialty you chose? I think you know that there is a tiered system to YOUR profession where certain specialties hold themselves in higher regard than others even though you are ALL M.Ds. How does YOUR profession take that into account?

 

[sideways]

We are ALL health care professionals with one goal in mind. The sooner you equate that with what you are claiming, the sooner all of us can reach that goal together.

Just as an aside, what is YOUR profession? You will be an M.D. I am a D.P.M. We are both doctors (well, you will be). Interestingly if you think a plastic surgeon has the same competency in medical matters as an Infectious Disease specialist, you are sorely mistaken. You will quickly learn this in your internship/residency. What subspecialty will you be? Will you have the same disdain for those that don't have the same proficiency as you based on what specialty you chose? I think you know that there is a tiered system to YOUR profession where certain specialties hold themselves in higher regard than others even though you are ALL M.Ds. How does YOUR profession take that into account?

What does the goal of health care have to do with the fact that DPMs and MD/DOs have different training? And where does my pointing this out, for the sake of clarity, reveal any sort of disdain for DPMs?

I don't know what I'm going to specialize in. I'm only in my 2nd year of medical school. Maybe I'll be a brain surgeon. Maybe I'll be a general practitioner. Maybe I'll rid children of cancer. Maybe I'll focus my efforts on the criminally insane. Therein lies the difference. Medical school prepares you to pursue any one of these avenues. As a podiatrist, from day one, you know your focus. If you don't think that translates into a different educational experience, you're nuts.

 

[amoebaman]

Not sure why this such a hot debate. Whether you are an MD/DO or DPM, you are a medical professional, treating patients/doing surgery, so its all semantics what kind of student you call yourself. And I do not think its about "equivalency" as it is "quality"... Just my two cents...

It's a hot debate because of the perceived prestige of medical school, and being a physician. Ultimately this prestige comes from money, high admission standards and the value judgement society places on your career.

Some of my thoughts on the prestige issues:
I think podiatrists make less money on average than primary care physicians (with an MD/DO) and dentists.

You can matriculate in a podiatry program with a 20 MCAT and get scholarships if you have a 25. Your GPA can be a 2.7 and you will get in somewhere. Since there aren't that many schools this is very counter-intuitive. Vet school is far more competitive and they also have few schools.

I think orthopaedic surgeons can fix life-threatening foot problems, so I've always been confused about the need for podiatry schools.

 

[jonwill]

I don't know what I'm going to specialize in. I'm only in my 2nd year of medical school. Maybe I'll be a brain surgeon. Maybe I'll be a general practitioner. Maybe I'll rid children of cancer. Maybe I'll focus my efforts on the criminally insane. Therein lies the difference. Medical school prepares you to pursue any one of these avenues. As a podiatrist, from day one, you know your focus. If you don't think that translates into a different educational experience, you're nuts.

I disagree in that medical school doesn't really prepare you for any of those things. It simply exposes you to them. The real training begins in residency. But you're right in that you get a more broad exposure to overall medicine than most podiatry students do. That mostly happens in the last two years of your education. The first two years between DPM's and MD/DO is very similar with all the basic science, systems, and all that other crappy stuff. A DPM's exposure to all of the general med happens more as an intern in residency.

 

[g squared 23]

I think orthopaedic surgeons can fix life-threatening foot problems, so I've always been confused about the need for podiatry schools.

You are either an idiot or a troll. Probably the latter, so your comment doesn't deserve or require a response.

:troll:

 

[amoebaman]

You are either an idiot or a troll. Probably the latter, so your comment doesn't deserve or require a response.

:troll:

OK fine, forget that part. I'm going to do my own research.

But what about the prestige issues? I think that is why there are podiatrists trying to gain parity with MD/DOs, and so many pods on this forum who are *really* insecure.

 

[jonwill]

It's a hot debate because of the perceived prestige of medical school, and being a physician. Ultimately this prestige comes from money, high admission standards and the value judgement society places on your career.

Some of my thoughts on the prestige issues:
I think podiatrists make less money on average than primary care physicians (with an MD/DO) and dentists.

You can matriculate in a podiatry program with a 20 MCAT and get scholarships if you have a 25. Your GPA can be a 2.7 and you will get in somewhere. Since there aren't that many schools this is very counter-intuitive. Vet school is far more competitive and they also have few schools.

I think orthopaedic surgeons can fix life-threatening foot problems, so I've always been confused about the need for podiatry schools.

Amoeba, not quite sure where you got some of those ideas. Yea, it is generally easier to get into a pod program than most MD/DO programs. As far as money, most podiatrists do very well and make well into the six figures (I don't really know what PCPs or dentists make). Most pods I know well enough to know what they make average between 200k and 400k depending on the situation.

The majority of orthopedic surgeons receive very little foot training and very few orthopods will even touch a foot.

 

[jonwill]

OK fine, forget that part. I'm going to do my own research.

But what about the prestige issues? I think that is why there are podiatrists trying to gain parity with MD/DOs, and so many pods on this forum who are *really* insecure.

I think the perceived "prestige" issues are largely limited to MD/DO/DPM and whoever else STUDENTS. Once you are out practicing in the real world, you come to realize that you are an expert in your field and everyone else in theirs. You all work together and treat patients accordingly. The majority of my referrals are from MD's (including ortho). Like I said, I am a staff physician at the major hospitals in my area. My badge reads: Staff Physician - Podiatry. Nobody really worries about what initials are behind your name or even where you went to school. You've all got real things to worry about!

 

[loveboatdoc]

I had chronic ankle pain for 10 years, misdiagnosed by MD's. A Podiatrist got a bone scan, and took out part of a necrotic talus (old bad ankle sprain), enabling me to run and stop limping. Later in life, I had chronic foot pain misdiagnosed for a long time...finally a Neurologist ordered an MRI; a Podiatrist removed a neuroma, and once again I could run pain-free.

As a practicing DO, I have sent countless patients to Podiatrists. They are awesome, and do surgeries Orthos would not excel at.

If your feet hurt, it changes your entire outlook on life. Podiatry deserves a place of honor within the health care field. All of you Podiatry students out there---ignore what the physicians say, just focus on the feedback your patients give you after you have allowed them to improve the quality of their lives so significantly. Ignore what they say at cocktail parties about "oh, you JUST treat feet", and totally focus on the relationships you'll build with hundreds of grateful patients.

Who cares what society thinks about your 'ranking' in the heiracrchy, or the "prestige" assigned to Podiatry? What matters is that your patients will know for the rest of their lives you did them more good than a truckload of other providers, and they will tell their families and friends the same.

 

[Podfather]

It's a hot debate because of the perceived prestige of medical school, and being a physician. Ultimately this prestige comes from money, high admission standards and the value judgement society places on your career.

If you think prestige comes only from money, you will never become prestigous enough. Just a gut feeling. Prestige comes from practicing ethically, caring/helping your patients, and your diagnostic and surgical skills.

Some of my thoughts on the prestige issues:
I think podiatrists make less money on average than primary care physicians (with an MD/DO) and dentists.

Our residents within a few years are all making over 200,000 with several in the 400-500K range. But again who cares as long as they are happy if some make as little as a pediatrician or FP.

You can matriculate in a podiatry program with a 20 MCAT and get scholarships if you have a 25. Your GPA can be a 2.7 and you will get in somewhere. Since there aren't that many schools this is very counter-intuitive. Vet school is far more competitive and they also have few schools.

I would agree admission standards are lower than a typical medical school. But if they graduate good podiatrists and eventually surgeons where they started means nothing. I know many 4.0 GPA MDs who performs clinically below the level of a DPM. Are there bad DPMs? Certainly but there are also bad MDs who from your post must have had great grades and MCATs to enter medical school. Since there are more MDs that means more bad ones.

I think orthopaedic surgeons can fix life-threatening foot problems, so I've always been confused about the need for podiatry schools.

There are very few life threatening foot problems but the few that exist, today's DPMs can and often handle them. If you do your research more than half of the orthopedic residencies have no formalized foot training and the half that do average 12 weeks during the third year. If the hospital also has a foot fellowship, exposure to the lower extremity is very limited to the general orthopod. Podiatry started because MDs ignored the importance of the foot and ankle and the void was filled by DPMs. Now IMO our education, training, and experience relating to lower extremity pathology far exceeds the typical orthopedist. Even board certified orthopedists can become certified having no formalized lower extremity trainig/experience and having never performed a foot and ankle surgery after residency. Yet they typically are given full privileges even for the most complex procedures. I always wondered: Are the orthopedic foot fellowships remedial or extra training? I mean if all orthopods are qualified and trained by their residency education why do they need a fellowship in feet? Is it they flunked feet 101 or is it that those who do a fellowship realize their training in feet was limited or non-existant?

As far as the medical school issue I could care less what someone calls themself. I just want someone who has worked hard, is caring, and ethical taking care of me. One final point: There is foot and ankle surgery period. Not allopathic, osteopathic, and podiatric foot and ankle surgery. Just foot and ankle surgery some done by MDs, others by DOs, and some by DPMs. All of the professions have good surgeons and bad surgeons. Look for the best in your area to refer to and let treat your family.

 

[347932]

There are very few life threatening foot problems but the few that exist, today's DPMs can and often handle them. If you do your research more than half of the orthopedic residencies have no formalized foot training and the half that do average 12 weeks during the third year. If the hospital also has a foot fellowship, exposure to the lower extremity is very limited to the general orthopod. Podiatry started because MDs ignored the importance of the foot and ankle and the void was filled by DPMs. Now IMO our education, training, and experience relating to lower extremity pathology far exceeds the typical orthopedist. Even board certified orthopedists can become certified having no formalized lower extremity trainig/experience and having never performed a foot and ankle surgery after residency. Yet they typically are given full privileges even for the most complex procedures. I always wondered: Are the orthopedic foot fellowships remedial or extra training? I mean if all orthopods are qualified and trained by their residency education why do they need a fellowship in feet? Is it they flunked feet 101 or is it that those who do a fellowship realize their training in feet was limited or non-existant?

As far as the medical school issue I could care less what someone calls themself. I just want someone who has worked hard, is caring, and ethical taking care of me. One final point: There is foot and ankle surgery period. Not allopathic, osteopathic, and podiatric foot and ankle surgery. Just foot and ankle surgery some done by MDs, others by DOs, and some by DPMs. All of the professions have good surgeons and bad surgeons. Look for the best in your area to refer to and let treat your family.

I love this post!

I've saved many septic diabetic patients by performing the I&D needed to prevent them from going into Septic Shock. I've NEVER seen an Ortho take on these cases. About the only surgeon that would touch these patients with a ten foot pole is Vascular, although we usually tag team these cases.

Who is the best foot and ankle surgeon? The one that is the best trained at foot and ankle surgery, the one that as the most experience in his or her career and performs consistently. I remember when I got to the area I decided to practice in, I got a lot of lip from THE local foot and ankle Orthopod. It turns out I did more bunion surgeries in my 3 years in residency than he did in his 30+ years of practice AND residency combined. So who is going to fix your Mom's bunion?

There is no competition. If you show your skills and consistently perform exceptionally, you will not have to argue with anyone as to competency. People will come to you because people will KNOW. In any medical field, surgery or otherwise.

 

[air bud]

But what about the prestige issues? I think that is why there are podiatrists trying to gain parity with MD/DOs, and so many pods on this forum who are *really* insecure.

People who talk about "prestige" and medicine should be punched in the neck. People who talk about "prestige" hang their stethescopes from their rear view mirror. People who talk about "prestige" wear their scrubs in non-clinical settings. People who talk about "prestige" post all day long on Facebook how hard "med" school is (that is a different thread...). People who talk about "prestige" should be punched in the neck. Did I mention that one yet?

 

[Podmeister]

I think orthopaedic surgeons can fix life-threatening foot problems, so I've always been confused about the need for podiatry schools.

Let's keep in mind that back in the days when the VA health system first started employing podiatrists, leg amputation rate was drastically reduced by half and patients' lives were extended beyond the five year morbidity often associated with below the knee amputations.

Leg amputations are quite costly and place enormous financial strain on the health care system and as long as there are diabetics, circulatory disorders, neurological disorders,etc., the employment and utilization of podiatrists in amputation prevention programs will continue to prove very cost effective in the long term.

Be certain of two things: MickeyDees and an overweight population.

 

[347932]

People who talk about "prestige" and medicine should be punched in the neck. People who talk about "prestige" hang their stethescopes from their rear view mirror. People who talk about "prestige" wear their scrubs in non-clinical settings. People who talk about "prestige" post all day long on Facebook how hard "med" school is (that is a different thread...). People who talk about "prestige" should be punched in the neck. Did I mention that one yet?

The only "prestige" that matters in the this world is the prestige people have for raising their children to be law abiding contributors to society.

But seriously man, anger management much?

 

[air bud]

We had an interesting lecture today in cardio-respiratory. A bunch of cases studies were presented and the initial treatment by the PCP or whomever often read BKA. Then they went to a pod and in conjunction with vascular surgeons, I think 4 of the 5 resulted in no amputation or maybe a toe or two.