Podiatry's relationship to PT

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busupshot83

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I was reading in a career book that podiatrists, being primary care practioners, can prescribe and oversee physical therapy. If this is true, can a podiatrist have physical therapists working under him/her?
 
What you read is absolutely true. Most pods refer out for PT, but some private practitioners do a little bit of PT in the office if they have the equipment (whirlpool, ultrasound, gait training, etc). Some guys I've shadowed/assisted love PT and refer almost every ortho patient for it, and others very seldom use PT in their treatment plans. Most hospital based pods obviously just refer to that department. Some guys will just write Rx for "PT 3 times weekly for L ankle stiffness" and others might write much more specific orders with exactly what they want done (what, how, frequency, settings, etc).

The amount of PT training you get will depend on where you go to school and residency, but I think all pod schools probably have at least one course. At Barry, we have a local 3rd year resident who was a PT beforehand teaching us a course, and students can also do an elective rotation or random shadowing in the university's athletic training room with the sports medicine DPM and his fellow.

You certainly can provide and bill for therapy as a DPM, but I don't think you can collect as much as a PT could? I'm not really sure. Good question...
 
What you read is absolutely true. Most pods refer out for PT, but some private practitioners do a little bit of PT in the office if they have the equipment (whirlpool, ultrasound, gait training, etc). Some guys I've shadowed/assisted love PT and refer almost every ortho patient for it, and others very seldom use PT in their treatment plans. Most hospital based pods obviously just refer to that department. Some guys will just write Rx for "PT 3 times weekly for L ankle stiffness" and others might write much more specific orders with exactly what they want done (what, how, frequency, settings, etc).

The amount of PT training you get will depend on where you go to school and residency, but I think all pod schools probably have at least one course. At Barry, we have a local 3rd year resident who was a PT beforehand teaching us a course, and students can also do an elective rotation or random shadowing in the university's athletic training room with the sports medicine DPM and his fellow.

You certainly can provide and bill for therapy as a DPM, but I don't think you can collect as much as a PT could? I'm not really sure. Good question...

Feli:

As always, your information is invaluable... thank you 👍.

bus
 
I agree with everything Feli says.

One of the Pod's I shadow back in WA actually has a PT in his office that he works with on his wound patients. It's specifically at a wound care clinic and often times, both he and the PT go into the room together to evaluate the pt and make sure the patient is getting the exact care they need to help heal these wounds. I think that's awesome.
 
I agree with everything Feli says.

One of the Pod's I shadow back in WA actually has a PT in his office that he works with on his wound patients. It's specifically at a wound care clinic and often times, both he and the PT go into the room together to evaluate the pt and make sure the patient is getting the exact care they need to help heal these wounds. I think that's awesome.

How does a PT fit in the role of wound care? just curious.
 
How does a PT fit in the role of wound care? just curious.

He does a lot of specialized casting that I guess this PT did a fellowship (I'm guessing) in and works with instructing the patients on how to walk and ambulate. I've only been in that clinic 2 times, so I didn't get the full scoop on what he does, but basically the DPM went in, checked the wound, did what he needed, dressed it and then the PT would come in with instructions from the DPM on the specific type of cast or brace or whatever that particular patient needed. I thought it was a great dynamic and the patients really seemed to like the care they were getting.
 
I was reading in a career book that podiatrists, being primary care practioners, can prescribe and oversee physical therapy. If this is true, can a podiatrist have physical therapists working under him/her?

While this is happening, it is against Stark Laws, and is known as referral for profit. PT is an autonomous profession, to even say that you "perform PT" and do not hold a license as a PT is illegal. As a result, PTs with brains and skills worth ‘hiring’ would not work in this type of arrangement. Your referral or request for consultation is greatly appreciated, and I will refer to a podiatrist when there is a need.. but it would be wise to know what ground you are treading on when it comes to this matter to keep things both legal and collegial.
 
While this is happening, it is against Stark Laws, and is known as referral for profit. PT is an autonomous profession, to even say that you "perform PT" and do not hold a license as a PT is illegal. As a result, PTs with brains and skills worth ‘hiring' would not work in this type of arrangement. Your referral or request for consultation is greatly appreciated, and I will refer to a podiatrist when there is a need.. but it would be wise to know what ground you are treading on when it comes to this matter to keep things both legal and collegial.
As long as you found this forum, how do you guys feel about the prescription/referral for PT? Do you just want it to say "Physical therapy, 2mo s/p bunion surgery" and let the PT go from there? Or do you want "Physical therapy 3x weekly x 5wks, contrast baths, pulsed wave iontophoresis triamcinolone acetonide." Is is helpful to have the referring doc's imput on what modalities might be helpful for the patient's pain/stiffness, or do most PTs and DPTs like to design their own plan?

edit to add:
I'm assuming you're an advanced student or practicing PT/OT?... if you're pre-PT, you don't have to answer.
 
As long as you found this forum, how do you guys feel about the prescription/referral for PT? Do you just want it to say "Physical therapy, 2mo s/p bunion surgery" and let the PT go from there? Or do you want "Physical therapy 3x weekly x 5wks, contrast baths, pulsed wave iontophoresis triamcinolone acetonide." Is is helpful to have the referring doc's imput on what modalities might be helpful for the patient's pain/stiffness, or do most PTs and DPTs like to design their own plan?

edit to add:
I'm assuming you're an advanced student or practicing PT/OT?... if you're pre-PT, you don't have to answer.

I know this is for the PT to answer but I have to interupt with this info.

I was recently on my PT/Rehab medicine rotation. The Physiatrist that I walked to mostly had this to say about giving the PT/DPT full range.

You are the doctor not the PT even the DPT is still not the doctor requesting the PT. You should know what you want or at least what you do not want your patient to have and what your expectations are for your patient for the PT that you are prescribing. Any time you give a blank prescription it takes the doctor's opinion out of the equation and then what are the doctors being paid for.

You would not give your patient with an infection a "blank" prescription for any antibiotic and let the pharmacist decide which to give, for how long and how many times a day - would you?

If you have a close relationship with a PT that knows what you want (protocol) for S/P austin bunionectomy then that is different. But IMO you, the doctor, should establish at what point weight bearing activities are allowed, when active vs passive ROM is allowed... You, the doctor, know what the procedure entailed and what the x-rays look like post-op. You cannot just let the PT have full range and assume they will do what you want.
 
While this is happening, it is against Stark Laws, and is known as referral for profit. PT is an autonomous profession, to even say that you "perform PT" and do not hold a license as a PT is illegal. As a result, PTs with brains and skills worth ‘hiring' would not work in this type of arrangement. Your referral or request for consultation is greatly appreciated, and I will refer to a podiatrist when there is a need.. but it would be wise to know what ground you are treading on when it comes to this matter to keep things both legal and collegial.

Thanks for the reply... that was very informative. First and foremost, I never stated that that podiatrists can "perform PT"... that's why we have physical therapists (excellent profession, IMHO). You previoulsy stated that having PTs work under a podiatrist is known as as "referral for profit." However, if podiatrists may "order physical therapy" (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos075.htm), why is "against Stark Laws?" How does this arrangement differ from wellness centers employing physical therapists, dieticians, etc. all under one roof? Just wondering... thanks.
 
Thank you for the invited commentary. I am a practicing DPT.

Common sense would tell me if you referred a patient s/p xyz surgery, patient history is reviewed, including imaging and surgical reports in addition to an examination. It is expected to call the surgeon if clarification about post-op instructions is needed. (Don't forget my license and reputation are on the line, and so is the referral.) I have worked with neurosurgeons and orthopods in the past, and typically we had meetings to discuss and develop 'protocols' to outline post-op rehab for given surgeries with input from all sides. This is mutually respectful and leads to great relationships, often benefiting both patients and the clinical practices.

Some providers still include a therapy "outline", but 99% of the time it is not c/w current best practice. As a PT, I am responsible for what is conducted, including the duration, and frequency of care. PT is my area of expertise; in the same way I do not tell other providers how to do their job. If you are the authority in how to perform and direct therapy, then to put it bluntly, you should do it yourself. To give you my analogy, if you direct your patient to see a cardiologist, would you tell them (cardiology) how to direct their care? More likely, you will tell them why you are referring the patient, they may ask you questions, but you would leave the majority of decision making up to them when it comes to what and how to do their thing, possibly collaborating on the problem at hand.

In contrast, when directing patients to non-licensed providers then care instructions do need to be outlined. PTs are not nurses, physicians are not our supervisors. (Not that there is anything wrong with being a nurse, or a physician!) That being said, as a PT, cases referred to me are written as "PT consult", or "PT exam & treat low back pain", etc.. Depending on the state, or the patient's insurance, a referral may not even be necessary.

So, for you to avoid coming across like someone with a complex, my best advice would be to allow the expert in the given field take lead when your job is done.

Your thoughts?

Addendum (per Busupshot83's post):
I was responding to the thread in general, it is Feli who stated "certainly can provide and bill for therapy as a DPM" and Densmore22 who mentioned the "Pod's I shadow back in WA actually has a PT in his office that he works with on his wound patients" (Stark issues). As for facilities who employ PTs in conjunction with other providers, it depends on who provides and profits from the referral, and if there is a possible conflict of interest. Touchy area.
 
You would not give your patient with an infection a "blank" prescription for any antibiotic and let the pharmacist decide which to give, for how long and how many times a day - would you?
Consultations can be wonderful things. Whereas we spend most of our time studying the foot, Pharmacists spend all their time understanding the nuances of drugs and their applications. Our hospital has several PharmD's (Doctoral level Pharmacists) on staff that we consult. If I have an atypical medication issue then I can either look it up in some reference guide (who wrote it and how recently?) or I can call a Pharmacist, who has probably read multiple articles about that specific drug and is up to date on the latest info. Even our Infectious Disease specialists consult the Pharmacists to get their recommendation.

Likewise, PT's spend all their time thinking about and doing physical therapy. I refer to PT often, and if I have specific concerns with a particular patient (such as delicate fixation or similar) then I grab the phone. I have close relationships with several PT's in town we let each other know what's going on with our mutual patients. I respect that they have spent more time studying rehab and therapy than I ever will. They respect that I can do things that they cannot.

It took me awhile to figure out that it's ultimately not about how much of a hot-shot I am, but it's about getting patients better (even if it means me asking for help).

Practice tip: Don't be afraid of picking up the phone to consult someone else. It builds relationships, leads to improved care, and covers your back. Others are usually flattered that you called them, and you might learn something that day. I get calls from other docs occasionally regarding foot care, and try to help out where I can. As it has become, my practice is 75% from physician referrals. When patients know you're hooked up with other providers in the community rather than being some yahoo off in his own corner doing his own thing, they feel more well cared for.

As a CYA move you can document your call: "After phone consultation with Pharmacy and Infectious Diseases, we selected Clindamycin at a dose of..."

Nat

Other practice tip: Consultations pay more than office visits. If a doctor sends a patient to you, work it up as a consultation rather than just an office visit.
 
Thank you for the invited commentary. I am a practicing DPT.

Common sense would tell me if you referred a patient s/p xyz surgery, patient history is reviewed, including imaging and surgical reports in addition to an examination. It is expected to call the surgeon if clarification about post-op instructions is needed. (Don't forget my license and reputation are on the line, and so is the referral.) I have worked with neurosurgeons and orthopods in the past, and typically we had meetings to discuss and develop 'protocols' to outline post-op rehab for given surgeries with input from all sides. This is mutually respectful and leads to great relationships, often benefiting both patients and the clinical practices.

Some providers still include a therapy "outline”, but 99% of the time it is not c/w current best practice. As a PT, I am responsible for what is conducted, including the duration, and frequency of care. PT is my area of expertise; in the same way I do not tell other providers how to do their job. If you are the authority in how to perform and direct therapy, then to put it bluntly, you should do it yourself. To give you my analogy, if you direct your patient to see a cardiologist, would you tell them (cardiology) how to direct their care? More likely, you will tell them why you are referring the patient, they may ask you questions, but you would leave the majority of decision making up to them when it comes to what and how to do their thing, possibly collaborating on the problem at hand.

In contrast, when directing patients to non-licensed providers then care instructions do need to be outlined. PTs are not nurses, physicians are not our supervisors. (Not that there is anything wrong with being a nurse, or a physician!) That being said, as a PT, cases referred to me are written as “PT consult”, or “PT exam & treat low back pain”, etc.. Depending on the state, or the patient's insurance, a referral may not even be necessary.

So, for you to avoid coming across like someone with a complex, my best advice would be to allow the expert in the given field take lead when your job is done.

Your thoughts?

Addendum (per Busupshot83's post):
I was responding to the thread in general, it is Feli who stated "certainly can provide and bill for therapy as a DPM" and Densmore22 who mentioned the "Pod's I shadow back in WA actually has a PT in his office that he works with on his wound patients" (Stark issues). As for facilities who employ PTs in conjunction with other providers, it depends on who provides and profits from the referral, and if there is a possible conflict of interest. Touchy area.

I still am not getting how this One (singular, not many) podiatrist is breaking Stark laws by having a licensed PT work with him on treating a sub set of patients. I'm under the impression, granted I do not know for certain, that after the podiatrist does the wound care, then the pt comes in and if there is a cast needed or some special device that is needed by the patient to ambulate or function in daily activities (performing ADLs) then the podiatrist lets the PT do what he needs to do and also instructs the patient on how to function with this device better and exercises to perform to facilitate healing. The Pod isn't telling him what type of cast or whatever the patient needs. I can see, if anything, that the PT might doing work outside of his scope of practice, as I've never come across PT's that cast or put on AFOs, etc (not implying you can't or they don't, I just never came across one until I shadowed with this particular pod). I will be the first to admit that the situation that this pod and PT have are way outside of the norm, but again, the patients really seem to like it and it seems to work out really well, so who am I to judge.

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable telling a PT how to do their job. As stated, most places have a protocol for their post op pts to receive the appropriate PT. But with that being said, each patient is unique and occasionally, something different in the protocol might be needed to help a particular patient that's not in the protocol and then might it be appropriate for the pod or the ortho or the whomever to adivise the PT of a change in the patients care to be made? I don't know how this works.

By the way, The DPT students at DMU are the ****, they're awesome.
 
I think Stark Law states that as long as you disclose the relationship to the patient, then you're okay.
 
I still am not getting how this One (singular, not many) podiatrist is breaking Stark laws by having a licensed PT work with him on treating a sub set of patients. I'm under the impression, granted I do not know for certain, that after the podiatrist does the wound care, then the pt comes in and if there is a cast needed or some special device that is needed by the patient to ambulate or function in daily activities (performing ADLs) then the podiatrist lets the PT do what he needs to do and also instructs the patient on how to function with this device better and exercises to perform to facilitate healing. The Pod isn't telling him what type of cast or whatever the patient needs. I can see, if anything, that the PT might doing work outside of his scope of practice, as I've never come across PT's that cast or put on AFOs, etc (not implying you can't or they don't, I just never came across one until I shadowed with this particular pod). I will be the first to admit that the situation that this pod and PT have are way outside of the norm, but again, the patients really seem to like it and it seems to work out really well, so who am I to judge.

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable telling a PT how to do their job. As stated, most places have a protocol for their post op pts to receive the appropriate PT. But with that being said, each patient is unique and occasionally, something different in the protocol might be needed to help a particular patient that's not in the protocol and then might it be appropriate for the pod or the ortho or the whomever to adivise the PT of a change in the patients care to be made? I don't know how this works.

By the way, The DPT students at DMU are the ****, they're awesome.

My thoughts exactly 👍.
 
I have some excerpts from the American Medical Directors Association's (AMDA) website regarding the Stark Law:

1. What is the Stark Law?
Generally speaking, the Stark Law, which is located in Section 1877 of the Social Security Act, prohibits a physician from referring Medicare or Medicaid program patients for certain "designated health services" to an entity with which the physician or an immediate family member has a "financial relationship."

2. What are the "designated health services"?
The "designated health services" covered by the Stark Law include:
- clinical laboratory services
- physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech language pathology services
- radiology and certain other imaging services
- radiation therapy services and supplies
- durable medical equipment and supplies;
- parenteral and enteral nutrients, equipment, and supplies
- prosthetics, orthotics, and prosthetic devices and supplies
- home health services
- outpatient prescription drugs
- inpatient and outpatient hospital services

Additionally, in final regulations released on November 21, 2005, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) announced its decision to make nuclear medicine a "designated health service" under the Stark Law.

3. What is a "financial relationship"?
Under the Stark Law, a "financial relationship" can be either (a) a direct or indirect "ownership or investment interest" in the entity that furnishes designated health services or (b) a "compensation arrangement" between the physician and the entity. Therefore, unless a Stark exception is fully satisfied, a physician who is part owner of a rehabilitation clinic may not refer a Medicare or Medicaid patient to the clinic for rehabilitation services and the clinic may not bill for those services. Likewise, if a physician is compensated as a medical director by a SNF, the SNF may not bill the Medicare or Medicaid program for designated health services referred by that physician unless the medical director arrangement meets a Stark exception (see question #5 on Stark Law exceptions). If there are a number of "financial relationships" between a physician and an entity, each relationship must meet a Stark exception in order for the physician to appropriately refer patients to that facility for designated health services.

4. What is considered a "referral" under the Stark Law?
The Stark Law defines the term "referral" much more broadly than the generally accepted definition in the standard physician-patient relationship. Under the Stark Law, a "referral" can include (a) a physician's request for, ordering of, or certifying or recertifying the need for, any "designated health service" reimbursable under Medicare Part B, including a request for a consultation with another physician and any test or procedure ordered by or to be performed by that other physician or under the physician's supervision; or (b) a physician's request that includes the provision of any designated health service, the establishment of a plan of care that includes the provision of a designated health service, or the certifying or recertifying of the need for such a designated health service. However, a "referral" does not include services personally performed or provided by the referring physician.

5. What are the Stark Law exceptions?
Stark Law contains approximately 35 exceptions that describe acceptable financial relationships that allow a physician to refer to an entity for the provision of designated health services. The first group of exceptions can be applied to either "ownership or investment interests" or "compensation arrangements." The second group of exceptions apply only to "ownership or investment interests." The third group of exceptions apply only to "compensation arrangements." Some commonly applied exceptions to the Stark Law include the exceptions for (a) in-office ancillary services, (b) bona fide employment relationships, (c) physician recruitment, and (d) physicians practicing in rural areas and locations designated as Health Professional Shortage Areas. It is important to remember that even these exceptions only apply in limited circumstances. For example, the Stark Law exception that covers a medical director agreement with a skilled nursing facility would not cover the medical director's ownership of that facility. A separate Stark law exception would need to be satisfied. Physicians should consult a lawyer to help determine which exception fits their proposed financial relationships.

Additional information on Stark Law exceptions may be found by visiting the CMS website at http://new.cms.hhs.gov/MedlearnProducts/40_PhysSelfReferral.asp, or by referring to the Code of Federal Regulations at 42 CFR §411.355 through 42 CFR §411.357.

13. What are the requirements for "personal services exception" to the Stark Law?
Generally speaking, for the personal services exception to be satisfied an agreement for a physician's services must:
- be in writing, be signed by the parties to the agreement, and specify the services covered by the agreement
- cover all of the services to be furnished by the physician under the arrangement
- cover aggregate services that do not exceed those that are reasonable and necessary for the legitimate purposes of the arrangement
be for a term of at least one year
- provide for compensation to be set in advance, not to exceed "fair market value," and (except in the case of a permissible physician incentive plan) not be determined by the volume or value of any referrals or other business generated between the parties
- not involve counseling or promotion of a business arrangement or other activity that violates any state or federal law, such as the federal Anti-kickback Statute.

15. Under the Stark Law, may a physician become an owner or co-owner of a [clinic] where he or she is a medical director?
A physician may perform duties as a medical director at a facility he or she co-owns, but the physician must find a Stark Law exception for both the medical director arrangement and the physician's ownership interest in the facility itself. The medical director arrangement should be crafted to satisfy the "personal services exception," discussed above. Finding an exception for the physician's ownership interest in the facility could prove much more difficult. Unfortunately, there are very few exceptions for a physician's ownership interest in a nursing facility, such as a SNF. Unless the facility is in a rural area or a Health Professional Shortage Area, the physician's options appear to be limited. Any physician considering investing in a nursing facility should immediately consult an attorney to analyze how the Stark Law will impact the proposed arrangement.

---

After reading the above information, I conclude the following: a podiatrist that has a physical therapist working under him or her DOES violate the Stark Law, UNLESS the podiatrist's arrangement with the physical therapitst meets the "personal services exception" requirement of the Stark Law (see excerpt #13 above). For example: a podiatrist may own the rehab facilities, and rent out the space to the physical therapist, but the podiatrist may NOT have the therapist simply working for him or her. If I am incorrect, than somebody please correct me.

bus
 
I have some excerpts from the American Medical Directors Association's (AMDA) website regarding the Stark Law:

1. What is the Stark Law?
Generally speaking, the Stark Law, which is located in Section 1877 of the Social Security Act, prohibits a physician from referring Medicare or Medicaid program patients for certain "designated health services" to an entity with which the physician or an immediate family member has a "financial relationship."

2. What are the "designated health services"?
The "designated health services" covered by the Stark Law include:
- clinical laboratory services
- physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech language pathology services
- radiology and certain other imaging services
- radiation therapy services and supplies
- durable medical equipment and supplies;
- parenteral and enteral nutrients, equipment, and supplies
- prosthetics, orthotics, and prosthetic devices and supplies
- home health services
- outpatient prescription drugs
- inpatient and outpatient hospital services

Additionally, in final regulations released on November 21, 2005, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) announced its decision to make nuclear medicine a "designated health service" under the Stark Law.

3. What is a "financial relationship"?
Under the Stark Law, a "financial relationship" can be either (a) a direct or indirect "ownership or investment interest" in the entity that furnishes designated health services or (b) a "compensation arrangement" between the physician and the entity. Therefore, unless a Stark exception is fully satisfied, a physician who is part owner of a rehabilitation clinic may not refer a Medicare or Medicaid patient to the clinic for rehabilitation services and the clinic may not bill for those services. Likewise, if a physician is compensated as a medical director by a SNF, the SNF may not bill the Medicare or Medicaid program for designated health services referred by that physician unless the medical director arrangement meets a Stark exception (see question #5 on Stark Law exceptions). If there are a number of "financial relationships" between a physician and an entity, each relationship must meet a Stark exception in order for the physician to appropriately refer patients to that facility for designated health services.

4. What is considered a "referral" under the Stark Law?
The Stark Law defines the term "referral" much more broadly than the generally accepted definition in the standard physician-patient relationship. Under the Stark Law, a "referral" can include (a) a physician's request for, ordering of, or certifying or recertifying the need for, any "designated health service" reimbursable under Medicare Part B, including a request for a consultation with another physician and any test or procedure ordered by or to be performed by that other physician or under the physician's supervision; or (b) a physician's request that includes the provision of any designated health service, the establishment of a plan of care that includes the provision of a designated health service, or the certifying or recertifying of the need for such a designated health service. However, a "referral" does not include services personally performed or provided by the referring physician.

5. What are the Stark Law exceptions?
Stark Law contains approximately 35 exceptions that describe acceptable financial relationships that allow a physician to refer to an entity for the provision of designated health services. The first group of exceptions can be applied to either "ownership or investment interests" or "compensation arrangements." The second group of exceptions apply only to "ownership or investment interests." The third group of exceptions apply only to "compensation arrangements." Some commonly applied exceptions to the Stark Law include the exceptions for (a) in-office ancillary services, (b) bona fide employment relationships, (c) physician recruitment, and (d) physicians practicing in rural areas and locations designated as Health Professional Shortage Areas. It is important to remember that even these exceptions only apply in limited circumstances. For example, the Stark Law exception that covers a medical director agreement with a skilled nursing facility would not cover the medical director's ownership of that facility. A separate Stark law exception would need to be satisfied. Physicians should consult a lawyer to help determine which exception fits their proposed financial relationships.

Additional information on Stark Law exceptions may be found by visiting the CMS website at http://new.cms.hhs.gov/MedlearnProducts/40_PhysSelfReferral.asp, or by referring to the Code of Federal Regulations at 42 CFR §411.355 through 42 CFR §411.357.

13. What are the requirements for "personal services exception" to the Stark Law?
Generally speaking, for the personal services exception to be satisfied an agreement for a physician's services must:
- be in writing, be signed by the parties to the agreement, and specify the services covered by the agreement
- cover all of the services to be furnished by the physician under the arrangement
- cover aggregate services that do not exceed those that are reasonable and necessary for the legitimate purposes of the arrangement
be for a term of at least one year
- provide for compensation to be set in advance, not to exceed "fair market value," and (except in the case of a permissible physician incentive plan) not be determined by the volume or value of any referrals or other business generated between the parties
- not involve counseling or promotion of a business arrangement or other activity that violates any state or federal law, such as the federal Anti-kickback Statute.

15. Under the Stark Law, may a physician become an owner or co-owner of a [clinic] where he or she is a medical director?
A physician may perform duties as a medical director at a facility he or she co-owns, but the physician must find a Stark Law exception for both the medical director arrangement and the physician's ownership interest in the facility itself. The medical director arrangement should be crafted to satisfy the "personal services exception," discussed above. Finding an exception for the physician's ownership interest in the facility could prove much more difficult. Unfortunately, there are very few exceptions for a physician's ownership interest in a nursing facility, such as a SNF. Unless the facility is in a rural area or a Health Professional Shortage Area, the physician's options appear to be limited. Any physician considering investing in a nursing facility should immediately consult an attorney to analyze how the Stark Law will impact the proposed arrangement.

---

After reading the above information, I conclude the following: a podiatrist that has a physical therapist working under him or her DOES violate the Stark Law, UNLESS the podiatrist's arrangement with the physical therapitst meets the "personal services exception" requirement of the Stark Law (see excerpt #13 above). For example: a podiatrist may own the rehab facilities, and rent out the space to the physical therapist, but the podiatrist may NOT have the therapist simply working for him or her. If I am incorrect, than somebody please correct me.

bus

I see it as the podiatrist can have the PT working directly under him or her as an employee but, If the pod has some sort of ownership in an independent business associated with the PT and shares in any of the profits then that is a violation of the stark laws.

I have a little experience with this only with the practice of neurology. A neurologist before the stark laws actually owned the radiology equipment at our local hospital(ct scanner, MRI, ect...) and would routinely refer the patients to this facility and receive the profits on both ends. He actually would read these scans as well when the scan was for the brain. So he actually billed the patient in clinic, billed for the test, and for reading the scan. After the stark laws were passed in the mid 90's he was forced to sell all of the other entities. He also owned an independant company with a PT who after the stark laws were passed became an employee of the neurology practice and they disolved the business. does that make sense?

onco
 
I see it as the podiatrist can have the PT working directly under him or her as an employee but, If the pod has some sort of ownership in an independent business associated with the PT and shares in any of the profits then that is a violation of the stark laws.

I have a little experience with this only with the practice of neurology. A neurologist before the stark laws actually owned the radiology equipment at our local hospital(ct scanner, MRI, ect...) and would routinely refer the patients to this facility and receive the profits on both ends. He actually would read these scans as well when the scan was for the brain. So he actually billed the patient in clinic, billed for the test, and for reading the scan. After the stark laws were passed in the mid 90's he was forced to sell all of the other entities. He also owned an independant company with a PT who after the stark laws were passed became an employee of the neurology practice and they disolved the business. does that make sense?

onco

So podiatrists can have PTs work directly under them as an employee... thanks Onco!
 
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