Poll: non-purists should not go DO

[DrMidlife]

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Med school applicants who are apathetic about osteopathic medicine as a philosophy, and/or do not view osteo as a truly separate field from allopathic medicine, should not apply to DO schools.

(P.S. I suck at making a poll.)

 

[scpod]

Once you matriculate and begin talking to your classmates you will find that people choose their schools for many different reasons. But, if only purists were allowed to attend osteo schools then all of them could fit into one place. The vast majority (at least at my school-- so it's a "non-scientific" opinion) just want to be a doctor. They got into this school and they liked it better for many reasons-- location, financial, family, weather, or whatever. Yes, many of them didn't get into any MD schools because of their GPA or MCAT as well. But, you'll learn once you are in that MCAT and GPA don't make you a good doctor. I know a couple of classmates with sky-high scores and they will suck as doctors. One of the top students in our class has the personality of a rock-- can't see why anyone would choose this person as a doctor. Honestly, grades and GPA are probably one of the bigger reasons that people in up in DO schools. But, once they are in, it doesn't really matter a whole lot. There are still plenty of people who only applied to DO schools only or who only applied to ONE school in particular. Most of them are happy just to be in medical school. However, there is a small vocal minority who ruins practically everything-- they aren't happy without the MD and they want to make everyone's life miserable. Fortunately, I really can't show you one of those from my class. There are probably some there, but I don't know them and I certainly wouldn't hang out with them.

There are many reasons why I chose my particular school and it wasn't just because it's a DO school. Two of my friends were DOs and they encouraged me to apply DO, so I did. I ended up finding a DO school which met all of my criteria and I was ecstatic about that. I got a place with practically no lectures, in a much warmer climate, for just 5 grand a year more than my state schools. What a bargain! However, I probably could have gone to either of my two in-state MD schools and still been happy in the end.

My ultimate goal is to be a doctor, yet I also like the history and tradition of DO. I always did like to fight for the little guy or the underdog. Maybe that's one of the reasons that ultimately drove me to leave SC and come to Florida. I was confident that I would be happy as a DO before I matriculated and I feel even more so now. I'm actually proud to be a part of the DO profession. No, I don't like everything that is going on, but I'm more than happy to put in the time fixing things instead of just criticizing it.

I know that there are plenty of people who go to DO schools because they have no other choice-- but I don't hold it against them. I've already met plenty of those people and I realize that they, for the most part, are just like me. They just want to be a doctor and they usually end up happy that they ended up in a DO environment. The few vocal dissenters are the least of my concern.

 

[fireflygirl]

I'd like to believe in this theory but I need to admit that I started on the osteopathic for non-purist reasons in the first place. But as I got to learn more about the philosophy, I became appreciative of what I was getting myself into. And after some of my anger subsided about my MCATs and not being able to get interviews at allopathic schools, I thought about my opportunity in ostoepathic medicine as another opportunity to reach my goals. I wanted to be a doctor. Period. And this was a fantastic opportunity to do that. And that's when I went from being the non-purist to the purist because it forced me to look at osteopathic medicine with a new attitude and a different perspective.

So I can't honestly admit that it's not ok to apply for non-purist reasons. But I think it's important that you go in with a strong attitude and go in for the right reasons. There are plenty of people out there that still look at osteopathic schools as the place to go for people who couldn't get into allopathic schools and I think that fuels a lot of unnecessary tension and gaps between the two schools; at the end of the day, the degrees mean nothing if you don't know how to care for your patients. But you have to truly believe this and not get caught up in the ignorance and cockiness that is part of so many pre-meds' experiences.

 

[fireflygirl]

Just curious...but for those people that have or will choose "other" - what are your thoughts?

 

[DrMidlife]

Just curious...but for those people that have or will choose "other" - what are your thoughts?

I'm in the "other" category. I'm starting DO school in Florida this fall. I'm completely humbled by the whole app process, and completely grateful that I'm going to get to be a physician. I applied to 34 MD schools, and 11 DO schools. My state MD school is the only MD school that showed me any love, and in all honesty, I'd really rather not stay in-state despite cheap tuition & fabulous prestige & family and all that. The DO schools that are interested in me simply turned out to be a better fit than the MD school that's mildly "interested" in me.

I could pretend that I'm choosing DO over MD, since I'm "in the pool" at a super-neato MD school, and am not pursuing it. But that pretense would be pure bull. I'm doing DO because I got in. And because I'm a 3.0 and a 31-O. And because I am 41 years old: buffing my app in an SMP, to go after MD again, has no appeal for me, even though I expect to practice into my 80's. And because being a DO isn't going to get in the way of any of the things I want to do (surg or ID, MSF or PIH, teaching). I freely admit that my DO intentions are largely insincere. I don't see much point in having parallel med ed systems. So I'm a non-purist, and I'm getting away with it, and that's nothing to brag about.

I fully support individuals who want to practice OMT. For me, I think OMT might be interesting as a low-resource-medicine technique. I think lymphatic flush is particularly interesting with immunocompromised patients and drug-resistant bugs, or generally in PACU and in the ICU. Beyond that level of utility, I'd be surprised if I pursued OMT with any real rigor.

I think the whole "DO philosophy" is a non-statement. (If Nova or LECOM-B are reading this, hi, howya doin?) Show me an allo school that disagrees with the osteo creed. Saying that a focus on "the whole patient" and on self-healing et al differentiates DO as a separate field from MD is ridiculous to me. The whole argument is based on comparing DOs only to crappy MDs. I don't see much to fight over in the difference between DO and MD. I think it would be fair, if not actually possible, to merge DO into MD and make OMT a specialty with a lot of dual-boarding. (Oh am I ever getting flamed now.)

I think that the alleged DO primary care emphasis is a joke, for DO schools that aren't state-supported. ATSU-SOMA, in particular, has a curriculum and an aggression that could truly change the face of primary care training (I'm a big fan of their program). But at $37k/yr, I doubt many of their graduates will stick with primary care. Lots of MD schools pretend to be focused on primary care as well, but let's call a spade a spade: any school with an interest in being popular with the host state is going to say "oh yes we LOVE primary care: look at our rural health elective!" There's no accountability for claiming a primary care focus. I wish that ATSU had the financial balls that LECOM has: that other private DO schools can't figure out how to charge only $25k tuition is to their shame.

From my perspective, choosing DO, with the intention of working side-by-side with MDs, is a bit like choosing to be the fat kid who eats paste in 1st grade, instead of the athletic popular kid who can do a Rubik's cube. (Note that none of these labels matter in the long term. Not a coincidence.) The fat kid can do anything the Rubik's kid can; it'll just be less of a slip-n-slide for the fat kid, and he/she might need to crash non-paste-eater parties in lieu of getting invited. (Punchline: I was the fat kid who could do Rubik's; any paste allegations remain unproven.) But I agree with scpod: I have a history of playing for the underdog and advancing lost causes. I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up in a DO residency, a member of AOA, trying to start a new AOA residency at my hospital, etc. I think it's equally likely that I'll do ACGME residency, practice outside the 5 states, and ignore the AOA. Either would be worth it.

Apologies in advance to anybody I've pissed off. Looking forward to being corrected where I'm wrong. (Teflon on.)

 

[homeboy]

I'm in the "other" category. I'm starting DO school in Florida this fall. I'm completely humbled by the whole app process, and completely grateful that I'm going to get to be a physician. I applied to 34 MD schools, and 11 DO schools. My state MD school is the only MD school that showed me any love, and in all honesty, I'd really rather not stay in-state despite cheap tuition & fabulous prestige & family and all that. The DO schools that are interested in me simply turned out to be a better fit than the MD school that's mildly "interested" in me.

I could pretend that I'm choosing DO over MD, since I'm "in the pool" at a super-neato MD school, and am not pursuing it. But that pretense would be pure bull. I'm doing DO because I got in. And because I'm a 3.0 and a 31-O. And because I am 41 years old: buffing my app in an SMP, to go after MD again, has no appeal for me, even though I expect to practice into my 80's. And because being a DO isn't going to get in the way of any of the things I want to do (surg or ID, MSF or PIH, teaching). I freely admit that my DO intentions are largely insincere. I don't see much point in having parallel med ed systems. So I'm a non-purist, and I'm getting away with it, and that's nothing to brag about.

I fully support individuals who want to practice OMT. For me, I think OMT might be interesting as a low-resource-medicine technique. I think lymphatic flush is particularly interesting with immunocompromised patients and drug-resistant bugs, or generally in PACU and in the ICU. Beyond that level of utility, I'd be surprised if I pursued OMT with any real rigor.

I think the whole "DO philosophy" is a non-statement. (If Nova or LECOM-B are reading this, hi, howya doin?) Show me an allo school that disagrees with the osteo creed. Saying that a focus on "the whole patient" and on self-healing et al differentiates DO as a separate field from MD is ridiculous to me. The whole argument is based on comparing DOs only to crappy MDs. I don't see much to fight over in the difference between DO and MD. I think it would be fair, if not actually possible, to merge DO into MD and make OMT a specialty with a lot of dual-boarding. (Oh am I ever getting flamed now.)

I think that the alleged DO primary care emphasis is a joke, for DO schools that aren't state-supported. ATSU-SOMA, in particular, has a curriculum and an aggression that could truly change the face of primary care training (I'm a big fan of their program). But at $37k/yr, I doubt many of their graduates will stick with primary care. Lots of MD schools pretend to be focused on primary care as well, but let's call a spade a spade: any school with an interest in being popular with the host state is going to say "oh yes we LOVE primary care: look at our rural health elective!" There's no accountability for claiming a primary care focus. I wish that ATSU had the financial balls that LECOM has: that other private DO schools can't figure out how to charge only $25k tuition is to their shame.

From my perspective, choosing DO, with the intention of working side-by-side with MDs, is a bit like choosing to be the fat kid who eats paste in 1st grade, instead of the athletic popular kid who can do a Rubik's cube. (Note that none of these labels matter in the long term. Not a coincidence.) The fat kid can do anything the Rubik's kid can; it'll just be less of a slip-n-slide for the fat kid, and he/she might need to crash non-paste-eater parties in lieu of getting invited. (Punchline: I was the fat kid who could do Rubik's; any paste allegations remain unproven.) But I agree with scpod: I have a history of playing for the underdog and advancing lost causes. I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up in a DO residency, a member of AOA, trying to start a new AOA residency at my hospital, etc. I think it's equally likely that I'll do ACGME residency, practice outside the 5 states, and ignore the AOA. Either would be worth it.

Apologies in advance to anybody I've pissed off. Looking forward to being corrected where I'm wrong. (Teflon on.)

Don't worry about it...everyone picks their route for different reasons, but in the end most everyone's just happy to be a physician. (ie. the # of students that apply to both MD and DO schools far outweigh the # of students that applied just DO.) That doesn't, however, mean people shouldn't be allowed to be critical of areas they feel need a 2nd look.

But the idea that only "purists" should go to DO school inherently implies that everyone applying to DO school knows what they're getting in to. This is far from the scenario. Most pre med students don't have a DO mentor, and unless you're from a state that has a higher proportion of the 50k practicing DOs, the chances you were exposed to "osteopathic medicine" ...especially to a degree that would have any appreciable impact...are minimal.

 

[bth7]

I think the whole "DO philosophy" is a non-statement. Show me an allo school that disagrees with the osteo creed. Saying that a focus on "the whole patient" and on self-healing et al differentiates DO as a separate field from MD is ridiculous to me. The whole argument is based on comparing DOs only to crappy MDs.

Could not agree more. Although I don't think its a "nonstatement," I just don't think there's anything "osteopathic" about it.

Who doesn't believe in treating the whole patient and not just the symptoms? Dr Midlife is very correct, crappy doctors are the only people who believe this. Saying its an MD v DO thing is pure nonsense.

 

[Old_Mil]

Med school applicants who are apathetic about osteopathic medicine as a philosophy, and/or do not view osteo as a truly separate field from allopathic medicine, should not apply to DO schools.

(P.S. I suck at making a poll.)

Do you know how many DO schools would close their doors for lack of applicants if interest in manipulation actually played an important role in the admissions process?

Frankly, if I'd known that the 10% of DOs who are manipulators have as much influence over this "field" as they do, I probably wouldn't have bothered applying to a DO school and would have gone caribbean MD. I'm certainly not willing to change my career plans for a bunch of luddites who worship at the grave of a dead guy from Missouri.

 

[RockfordWF]

Med school applicants who are apathetic about osteopathic medicine as a philosophy, and/or do not view osteo as a truly separate field from allopathic medicine, should not apply to DO schools.

(P.S. I suck at making a poll.)

You will find that the "false" will win on your poll, because a vast majority of DO students are "non-purists." Many students dislike learning OMM (but enjoy receiving it), and very large numbers of people are only in DO school because they couldn't get into MD school.

 

[digitlnoize]

Many students dislike learning OMM (but enjoy receiving it), and very large numbers of people are only in DO school because they couldn't get into MD school.

My wife really, really wants me to learn OMM so I can do it on her...can't say I blame her. I probably won't use it in daily practice (especially if I go into rads, like I want to now) but from the little I've seen/heard/read, it seems like it could be useful.

I would also like to chime in on the issue though. I am another quasi-non-trad who is "choosing" DO over MD. Why?

1. I feel LECOM-B's PBL is a great fit for me and my learning style. I retain information much better if I use and reuse it than if I am sitting in a lecture or spoon fed off a powerpoint.

2. The area is a better place for my family to live. Nicer houses for less money. Warrrrrrm...I mean, hot. Either way...it means no more scraping ice, which is probably my least favorite thing in the WORLD. Besides cancer...that sucks too.

3. I really believe the degree does not make the doctor. I have worked alongside a number of DO's (sometimes for months!) that I didn't know were DO's until I looked at the chart/badge. It really doesn't matter. There is some talk of DO's having a harder time getting residencies, but I am confident enough in my abilitiy to do well that it won't matter to me. If I suck really bad on the boards, MD initials won't help me either! Besides it hasn't hurt all the other DO rads guys I know...

4. The underdog thing. Underdog was totally my favorite cartoon when I was little. Too bad about the movie though.

5. I really like my classmates. Or my potential classmates. We all seem to have much more in common than my potential classmates at the MD schools. Many more older, family-fied, ball-and-chained, career-changing types at LECOM than at State School X.

All that being said, I do wish the AOA would, to paraphrase Ice Cube, "check itself before it wrecks itself." I also see this as an opportunity to make a difference by being involved in the AOA, which I may be...if I think I can help, or it will allow anyone to help. The five states need to get off their a$$ and change that stupid law. More importantly, the AOA needs to relax that whole "DO residencies must have a DO P.D." thing. That's just stupid. There's MD residencies with DO P.D's...why not the other way around?

Oddly enough, I'm not really a fan of opening DO residencies to MD applicants...weird. No basis at all...go figure.

Ok. I'm done...

 

[bth7]

Many students dislike learning OMM (but enjoy receiving it),

I always liked OMM class. A free massage and every guy in my class takes his shirt off. Not a bad way to spend the morning.

 

[MaximusD]

The purists are what's wrong with the profession. Osteopathic manipulation is an excellent adjunct. That's it.

The purists would have me practicing it for half of my patient encounter when I could be refining my differential through extra H&P. The real challenge of being an osteopathic physician will be finding that optimal medium in which you use the appropriate amount of OMT while still completing an adequate physical examination and taking a thorough history.

 

[MaximusD]

1. I feel LECOM-B's PBL is a great fit for me and my learning style. I retain information much better if I use and reuse it than if I am sitting in a lecture or spoon fed off a powerpoint.

3. I really believe the degree does not make the doctor. I have worked alongside a number of DO's (sometimes for months!) that I didn't know were DO's until I looked at the chart/badge. It really doesn't matter. There is some talk of DO's having a harder time getting residencies, but I am confident enough in my abilitiy to do well that it won't matter to me. If I suck really bad on the boards, MD initials won't help me either! Besides it hasn't hurt all the other DO rads guys I know...

4. The underdog thing. Underdog was totally my favorite cartoon when I was little. Too bad about the movie though.

Oddly enough, I'm not really a fan of opening DO residencies to MD applicants...weird. No basis at all...go figure.

Ok. I'm done...

Responses by your numbers:

1. First-off you have no basis to say this until you really have entered the PBL program. As a pre-med, you should hold off on judging it IMO. It works for some and not for others... I hope you are one of those who thrives with it, but it's better not to make naive statements like this that you may regret later.

At PCOM we integrate everything. We have classroom based didactics, however we also do grand-rounds-type presentations every few weeks as well as patient perspective stuff. I am partial to PCOM's all-encompassing system, but some DO find that PBL works best.

3. Right, the degree does not make the doctor. However, this statement inherently works upon the assumption that a DO degree is somehow inferior to an MD degree. Not true. This is better phrased as, "A physician's success is not dependent upon the professional degree (s)he earns. Instead, it is dependent upon other factors such as personal commitment, intelligence, perserverence, and professional drive." Something like that..

4. Flat-out ridiculous. Underdog was the **** though.

Right, because it's our comforting fall-back option. I have that initial reaction to the idea as well. However, I fear that funding will begin to diminish in the near future if the AOA spots continue to go unfilled year after year in some less-than-desirable PC residencies.

 

[digitlnoize]

Responses by your numbers:

1. First-off you have no basis to say this until you really have entered the PBL program. As a pre-med, you should hold off on judging it IMO. It works for some and not for others... I hope you are one of those who thrives with it, but it's better not to make naive statements like this that you may regret later.

I do have a basis. First, I am old enough and have been through enough school I know how I learn best. Second, as interviewees we get to sit on an a PBL session and experience the process. Third, I've had PBL at my undergrad institution and excelled in classes with it.

3. Right, the degree does not make the doctor. However, this statement inherently works upon the assumption that a DO degree is somehow inferior to an MD degree. Not true. This is better phrased as, "A physician's success is not dependent upon the professional degree (s)he earns. Instead, it is dependent upon other factors such as personal commitment, intelligence, perserverence, and professional drive." Something like that..

Sure. That's fine too. I agree that they're equal degrees. I like the BS/BA analogy.

4. Flat-out ridiculous. Underdog was the **** though.

I don't actually think this is ridiculous. Like it or not, DO's are the minority in this country (at least in most parts) and are considered the underdogs by many. This is difficult to put in words, so bear with me...

I've always been the type of person who enjoys being in the "different" group. I often play devil's advocate, even if I don't fully believe in what I'm arguing, because I think it makes me think, makes others think, and is just plain fun/interesting/etc. I am unique, and I enjoy being a part of something unique. Perhaps this isn't quite "underdog" status, but that word is close enough...

Going back on topic, I would classify myself as a non-purist. I believe MD's and DO's are equal. I believe there are good MD's and bad MD's, and good DO's and bad DO's. I want to be a good doctor. I don't care what my initials are. As I said earlier, I am choosing a med school based on what is right for me...and believe it or not, I know what is right for me. I am me. Using your logic from point #1, I should refrain from making a decision until I actually matriculate. This is silly. I am 30 years old and after 25 years of school, I have the right and the ability to classify my learning style.

Perhaps the OP's question could be better served by defining what makes one a "purist." Anyone?

Right, because it's our comforting fall-back option. I have that initial reaction to the idea as well. However, I fear that funding will begin to diminish in the near future if the AOA spots continue to go unfilled year after year in some less-than-desirable PC residencies.

You are probably right. If it gets to that point, they may get opened up. I'm not really against it...I haven't really soul searched this one. Part of me wants to be fair and say, "they let us into their residencies...we should do the same." The other part of me says, "but they're ours." There's is also the question of how they would address the OMM portions of the residency curriculum, having no OMM education...

 

[medicine1]

I always liked OMM class. A free massage and every guy in my class takes his shirt off. Not a bad way to spend the morning.

It is so great to see such an ignorant, arrogant fool like yourself beam in the light of stupidity.

 

[DrMidlife]

It is so great to see such an ignorant, arrogant fool like yourself beam in the light of stupidity.

I can't wait to work with people like bth7. I can't stand the idea of having to work with people like you.

 

[cyclohexanol]

I always liked OMM class. A free massage and every guy in my class takes his shirt off. Not a bad way to spend the morning.

It is so great to see such an ignorant, arrogant fool like yourself beam in the light of stupidity.

Brilliant.

I don't get it, where is the stupidity in his post? 😕

Seems like the 'light' shines bright on your own post...

 

[avalon18217]

Responses by your numbers:

1. First-off you have no basis to say this until you really have entered the PBL program. As a pre-med, you should hold off on judging it IMO. It works for some and not for others... I hope you are one of those who thrives with it, but it's better not to make naive statements like this that you may regret later.

At PCOM we integrate everything. We have classroom based didactics, however we also do grand-rounds-type presentations every few weeks as well as patient perspective stuff. I am partial to PCOM's all-encompassing system, but some DO find that PBL works best.

Give him a break, I have to agree with digitlnoize. Heck I've only been in school 20+ years (8 years of undergrad (changed majors and had to pay for school myself)) and I know that PBL will work better for me than traditional lecture. Maybe PCOM's curriculum would be better than the PBL at LECOM, but I can't comment on that because I didn't apply to PCOM. But I can say that to remain interested and retain information after many seemingly useless undergrad classes, I want something more like PBL. After watching PBL I know that it will make me excited to learn, it did that in the two hours I was in the PBL session.

I may not be a "purist", I did apply to MD schools as well as DO schools, but I am happy to be going to a DO school. I could have done better on the MCAT (I only studied for 3 weeks) and probably gotten more MD acceptances but when I think about going to a school which is mostly lecture I feel sick. I also think that I will fit in with the DO school culture better (more non-trads, fewer gunners, etc.); I don't see why basing your decision to go DO can't be on these things. The AOA and other issues might annoy me but not enough to make me go back and try to get an MD.

Why do we have to pick apart these things?

 

[scpod]

First-off you have no basis to say this until you really have entered the PBL program....It works for some and not for others....it's better not to make naive statements like this that you may regret later....

I disagree. LECOM-B does a pretty good job of picking out people who would do well in BL these days. Since the school began letting interviewees sit in on PBL sessions it's gotten even better. By the time people finish college I think they have a pretty good grasp of their own learning style. For those who like PBL, there is no better way to learn. It provides an incredible amount of flexibility where you begin to tailor your education to your own desires. At the same time, it forces you into situations where you must work as a team in the fashion of modern medical care. Perhaps the best thing though is that is incredibly well-suited for COMLEX. In PBL you learn basic sciences from a clinical perspective. COMLEX tests you on basic sciences from a clinical perspective. Perhaps, that is why recent LECOM-B students have performed so well on COMLEX and have received such great reviews from preceptors.

No, it is absolutely not for everyone. The first class from here had quite a few students who didn't believe in it and performed poorly initially. Those students, however, who trusted the system and followed the guidelines have developed into pretty good students. The first class improved immensely by the time they took COMLEX step two. There were a few remaining holdouts who refused to listen to the advice and failed, yet the class performed better than the national average.

 

[FutureNavyFP]

The purists are what's wrong with the profession. Osteopathic manipulation is an excellent adjunct. That's it.

I completely agree with this post.

I loved OMM my first year. The whole time I was thinking, "Why doesn't everyone do this OMT stuff? Everything seems to make sense." In my second year we were introduced to the cranial stuff. 😱 I gave it the benefit of the doubt and tried my hardest to believe that I could really feel that torsion. In the end I couldn't help but feel that cranial was all BS and I strongly feel that it is the main reason why DO's don't get any respect! I was amazed at how much of that crap was on my boards.

I like to do OMT, I treat my wife's back regularly and I think it has its place. I wouldn't even consider using it on every pt.

I say we flush cranial!

 

[DocFox]

How can you be a "purist" or "non-purist" before actually going through DO education?

 

[DrMidlife]

How can you be a "purist" or "non-purist" before actually going through DO education?

The poll is asking: if you already know you're not a purist, should you get that DO education?

 

[medicine1]

If someone was interviewing at my school or any DO school, and told me that they do not wish to learn the principles and practice of osteopathic medicine, I would definitely not accept them. I really think DO schools need to thoroughly screen out applicants that would potentially become malignant students and doctors that declaim and denounce what they falsely pledged to uphold and profess.

Any DO that has a degree in osteopathy, and then denounces osteopathic practice and principles is a hypocrite! I sincerely hope that all DO students and physicians that are against their own profession should have their DO title taken away.

 

[DocFox]

Actually some "non purists" in my class poked a lot of fun at OMM in the beginning of the year but have actually grown fond of some types of treatment.

I'm getting really weirded out on here because people talk like osteopathic medicine is some kind of religion. "Let's keep it pure", "just accept cranial manipulation", "we're better than MDs, we treat the whole patient".

It's medical school! Go if you want to be a good doctor, the school you attend has such little bearing on what kind of doc you will be. Judge OMM for yourself and see if it will be applicable for your practice. I don't want to go to school with a bunch of people that don't think critically, a little skepticism never hurt anyone.

 

[DocFox]

Any DO that has a degree in osteopathy, and then denounces osteopathic practice and principles is a hypocrite! I sincerely hope that all DO students and physicians that are against their own profession should have their DO title taken away.

I don't know much about you, but I am planning on getting a degree in osteopathic medicine. I will practice medicine, not osteopathy. My patients will come first and if OMM (which I have found to be the only real difference of osteopathic medicine c/w "allopathic medicine, but I am still relatively early on in my career) is beneficial or pertinent in the treatment of my patients I will use it to the fullest extent I can.

I'd rather be what you consider a hypocrite than a bad doctor to my patients.

 

[DrMidlife]

If someone was interviewing at my school or any DO school, and told me that they do not wish to learn the principles and practice of osteopathic medicine, I would definitely not accept them. I really think DO schools need to thoroughly screen out applicants that would potentially become malignant students and doctors that declaim and denounce what they falsely pledged to uphold and profess.

Any DO that has a degree in osteopathy, and then denounces osteopathic practice and principles is a hypocrite! I sincerely hope that all DO students and physicians that are against their own profession should have their DO title taken away.

Parsimony called, they'd like you to look it up.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I believe that osteopathic medicine should be practiced the way it was intended by AT Still in the 1850's, or whenever it was.

Furthermore, I believe that allopathic medicine should be practiced the way it was intended at its origin, in the 1840's, as described by Hahnemann. All diseases should be treated by medications that would cause minor symptoms of the disease in a healthy person.

 

[DocFox]

I believe that osteopathic medicine should be practiced the way it was intended by AT Still in the 1850's, or whenever it was.

Furthermore, I believe that allopathic medicine should be practiced the way it was intended at its origin, in the 1840's, as described by Hahnemann. All diseases should be treated by medications that would cause minor symptoms of the disease in a healthy person.

Allopathic medicine goes back a lot farther than the 1840s....

 

[bravotwozero]

Allopathic medicine goes back a lot farther than the 1840s....

I think he's being facetious.

 

[Iquitos]

I'm certainly not willing to change my career plans for a bunch of luddites who worship at the grave of a dead guy from Missouri.

or the people who pay their respects on an annual treck to his grave site

 

[Iquitos]

I believe that osteopathic medicine should be practiced the way it was intended by AT Still in the 1850's, or whenever it was.

Furthermore, I believe that allopathic medicine should be practiced the way it was intended at its origin, in the 1840's, as described by Hahnemann. All diseases should be treated by medications that would cause minor symptoms of the disease in a healthy person.

Lets set a few things straight....

AT Still would have been 22 years old in 1850

By 1853, Andrew and family also moved to the Wakarusa Mission
farmed and helped his father treat Indians
He also exhumed Indian bodies to study anatomy

Three Still children died of spinal meningitis, February 1864
He believed that the deaths were from medical ignorance—"has not God left man in a world of guessing?"
Convinced him of the uselessness of drugs
and for a time he gave up medicine


American School of Osteopathy founded in 1892

Expansion of ASO faculty
New faculty were hired to cover new subjects, several with advanced degrees
The Littlejohn brothers (who would influence osteopathic history tremendously):
J. Martin Littlejohn PhD
James Littlejohn, MS, MD
David Littlejohn, MD
These newcomers brought "regular" science and medicine to ASO and osteopathy
Educated in Europe, hired to expand curriculum
Sought to broaden osteopathy and include more physiology and other subjects and brought in "x-radiance," advocated teaching surgery

The Littlejohn brothers became leaders in the broadening of osteopathic practice, despite pleas by Still
AAAO (now the AOA) followed their lead in recommending broader education and practice.


American Osteopathic Association
"American Association for the Advancement of Osteopathy" begun 1897 by ASO grads
renamed 1901 to AOA


If it weren't for the Littlejohn brothers, I believe Osteopathy would have gone the way of bone setting, mesmerism, magnetism and other far out medical practices that influenced the young AT Still.

 

[FutureNavyFP]

If it weren't for the Littlejohn brothers, I believe Osteopathy would have gone the way of bone setting, mesmerism, magnetism and other far out medical practices that influenced the young AT Still.

True. Also, if it weren't for the "purists" (AT included) who fought for so long to keep AT Still's view of osteopathy "pure" by rejecting the advancement of medicines, I believe DO's would be running the show.

 

[FutureNavyFP]

I'm certainly not willing to change my career plans for a bunch of luddites who worship at the grave of a dead guy from Missouri.

It is creepy how the man has an almost cult-like following among so many students. Of course, how could each year of OMM start without those annual pictures of the fellows performing adjustments at AT's grave! 😴

 

[miam042]

Non-purists have made osteopathic medicine what it is today.
Any purist that cannot see this is kidding themselves.

Non-purists are also the majority now within this profession,
or at least on SDn as witnessed by this poll.

And on a side note, these two terms are ridiculous.
Purists should be referred to as "old boys club" and
non-purists should be referred to as "realists".

 

[medhacker]

What a buch of sour grape party

You should have gone MD 👎

 

[MichiganDO]

If all non-purists went MD, there would be 1 osteopathic school in
Kriksville, MO.... and DOs would hardly be where they are today.

 

[MaximusD]

I disagree with you medhacker... I do think that as a DO student it is important to understand and evaluate manipulative therapy, however it is just one other healing method. I evaluate each aspect of OMM as I would a drug sales pitch. With an open mind yet with a grain of salt... to do otherwise is irresponsible as your first obligation is TO THE PATIENT not to your profession.

 

[medhacker]

I disagree with you medhacker... I do think that as a DO student it is important to understand and evaluate manipulative therapy, however it is just one other healing method. I evaluate each aspect of OMM as I would a drug sales pitch. With an open mind yet with a grain of salt... to do otherwise is irresponsible as your first obligation is TO THE PATIENT not to your profession.

hmm, what did you exactly disagree with? 😕

 

[SomeDoc]

I can't wait to work with people like bth7.

Sorry, OT, but me too.

 

[FutureNavyFP]

What a buch of sour grape party

You should have gone MD 👎

Sour grapes - Denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired. The American Heritage Dictionary.

I am sorry, but I honestly have absolutely no desire to worship AT Still or do anything at his grave site. I do have the desire for the DO profession to be well respected. I believe that "purists" degrade the profession by blindly holding on to treatments and principles that should have been removed from our curriculum a long time ago.

 

[medhacker]

Sour grapes - Denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired. The American Heritage Dictionary.

I am sorry, but I honestly have absolutely no desire to worship AT Still or do anything at his grave site. I do have the desire for the DO profession to be well respected. I believe that "purists" degrade the profession by blindly holding on to treatments and principles that should have been removed from our curriculum a long time ago.

Do you really thing the something in "Denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired" that I am making reference to is "a desire to worhip AT Still"?

Come on! 🙄

 

[FutureNavyFP]

Do you really thing the something in "Denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired" that I am making reference to is "a desire to worhip AT Still"?

Come on! 🙄

Among a few other things, it happened to be the topic of discussion. I must have made the mistake of assuming that you were posting to contribute to the thread. Very well, continue your thread hijacking.

 

[digitlnoize]

It is creepy how the man has an almost cult-like following among so many students. Of course, how could each year of OMM start without those annual pictures of the fellows performing adjustments at AT's grave! 😴

AT Still is the DO's Chuck Norris. You be the judge:

 

[FutureNavyFP]

AT Still is the DO's Chuck Norris. You be the judge:

I was actually thinking more on the lines of Reverend Kane from Poltergeist II. He was a cult leader that tried to keep his followers burried away from the rest of the world until they all died. Similarities...🙄

 

[scpod]

OK....if we're doing hat pictures....might as well post one of my favorites:

And one that I'm not very fond of at all:

Ewwwwwww.........

 

[FutureNavyFP]

OK....if we're doing hat pictures....might as well post one of my favorites:

Ewwwwwww.........

I think I went to high school with that guy. Except he always wore a long black coat and had more peircings.