Possible 3rd application. 37 MCAT. What else can I do?

[arid]

I'm hoping that somebody has some sort of useful advice for me here, because I am at a bit of a loss. Science and cumulative GPAs are hovering around 3.6, and I have an MCAT of 37. I decided pretty late in college to go into medicine, so I didn't really bother worrying about getting A's the first few years.

So my first application cycle (2009-2010) I only applied to 5 or 6 schools. I know that was a small number, but with my MCAT and the fact that I had Loma Linda as a backup I thought I'd be fine (I went to Walla Walla University, another Adventist school where EVERYBODY goes to Loma Linda). I limited myself because wanted to stay on the West coast and thought I had the luxury to decide for myself. I probably would have gotten into LLU, but something went wrong with my application and I didn't end up interviewing until March, when there were very few spots left. I probably jeopardized my chances even more by basically telling my interviewer that I am no longer religious although I grew up in the Adventist system. Stupid of me, I know. Oh well. I've learned my lesson about honesty. It was my last resort, and I would have hated Southern California anyway. That was my only interview last year.

Fast forward a year. I applied to 12 schools, got 5 interviews this past fall/winter (including my state school OHSU) and am now on 2 waitlists. There's still a possibility that I will be accepted again, of course, but if I don't I really don't know how my application has improved since I really wasn't planning for this. I worked at a nursing home as a CNA from Feb 09 to Feb 11, but after 2 years I could not physically take the work. It is back-breaking. I'm currently only volunteering 4 hours every other week at the local science museum, and taking Biochem at university. I did volunteer in a program for Emergency Department research for a few months this last winter, but not long enough to get a LOR because I honestly found it pretty boring and worthless.

So I'm left wondering whether I just had a string of really bad luck, or if there is something I need to change? I know I hurt myself the first cycle by limiting my applications, but this cycle is beyond me. I realize that statistically there is always a chance that even the most qualified applicants won't get picked. Should I just go for it again with the same stats?

I've been reading here recently about people sending letters of intent to schools after interviews. Is this really expected, or is it something that only the really over-the-top people do? I've just been biding my time trying to keep my mind off the process now that I've interviewed. Has that hurt my chances at all?

If you've read all this, thanks.

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[shaggy alfresco]

Well five interviews out of 12 is decent so your issue might be interviewing skills. Do mock interviews. And send update and interest letter to the school of your choice.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

Ftr I sent thank you letters but no letters of intent. I did more than fine with much worse stats.

 

[SNDO]

I honestly think you have great stats. I know DO schools would have no problems with your stats. I don't know about MD schools, because I'm only interested in DO, but I'm sure your stats are pretty good for MD as well.

I think acceptances have a lot to do with your interviews. Getting to the interview stage means that the school already sees you as a qualified applicant. The interview is for both you and the school to see if you're good fits for each other. So all you need to do is be confident, be honest, and genuine in your interviews.

For the record, I have applied 3 times. The first two times were failures, but my third time I was able to land some interviews. I improved my application significantly with lots of volunteering, job shadowing, and retook some core science classes for better grades. My stats are relatively crappy compared to yours, but I was lucky enough to get accepted to a DO school. I agree with the above poster that it probably has to do with your interviewing skills. Keep trying and good luck!

I heard that people send letter of intents when they're on the waitlist, but I'm not totally sure on that. Always send thank you notes to your interviewers and admin faculty at the school, because that's just good manners

 

[arid]

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

I guess it could be the interviews. There was one that was particularly painful, but a lot of them seemed to go pretty well. I think I'm pretty good at being relaxed and just talking like I would with a friend, but maybe I'm trying to be too friendly and not focusing on the questions enough.

I also hate when they ask if I have any questions. I never do.

One interview at OHSU involved talking to the interviewer while we walked to the Starbucks in the hospital, and he bought me tea. He talked the whole time about tort reform and other legal issues. He seemed like a nice guy, but I hardly got a word in.

 

[arid]

Oh yeah, and I did send thank you letters, of course!

 

[n3xa]

Where did you apply? Your stats seem just fine.

 

[arid]

OHSU (State school, Interviewed - rejected)
University of Minnesota
University of Wisconsin
University of Vermont (Interviewed - rejected)
Rosalind Franklin (Interviewed - Hold)
Penn State (Interviewed - Waitlist)
St. Louis University
Commonwealth (Interviewed - rejected)
U of Colorado
Drexel
Boston University (They didn't like one of my LORs because it wasn't signed or something, but I didn't bother fixing the problem)

That's 11. I might have missed one, but I don't remember. I tried to keep it to ones with pretty average stats that took some OOS (Except Colorado). Am I selling myself short by not applying to better schools? Apparently not, since I can't even get accepted to these.

I'm of the opinion that all schools are pretty much the same and you'll learn as much as you want to learn.

 

[Northwesterly]

Yikes. That's a pretty scary set of schools/results given your numbers. Obviously there are a lot of folks on this board who think that anything less than 25 schools is suicide, (and given the results they might have a point) but not even an interview from Drexel?
What are your medical and community volunteer hours like, if you don't mind my asking? One waitlist and one hold out of five interviews seems a little low, so your interviewing could be slightly iffy, but it's also not obviously terrible. And 5 interviews would seem to indicate there's no hidden "LOR of death" or anything.
My guess would be that there just wasn't enough in your primary (ECs or essay-wise) to distinguish you from the hordes and hordes of other applicants. Plus you got unlucky. Have you gotten any feedback from the schools that rejected you? (either this year or last) I don't see why you shouldn't try again, bumping your list up to 15 or 20. There are plenty more OOS friendly schools out there. (EVMS, Temple, some of the Florida schools... I'm sure you can find a better list in pre-Allo.) Good luck.

OHSU (State school, Interviewed - rejected)
University of Minnesota
University of Wisconsin
University of Vermont (Interviewed - rejected)
Rosalind Franklin (Interviewed - Hold)
Penn State (Interviewed - Waitlist)
St. Louis University
Commonwealth (Interviewed - rejected)
U of Colorado
Drexel
Boston University (They didn't like one of my LORs because it wasn't signed or something, but I didn't bother fixing the problem)

That's 11. I might have missed one, but I don't remember. I tried to keep it to ones with pretty average stats that took some OOS (Except Colorado). Am I selling myself short by not applying to better schools? Apparently not, since I can't even get accepted to these.

I'm of the opinion that all schools are pretty much the same and you'll learn as much as you want to learn.

 

[startswithb]

OHSU (State school, Interviewed - rejected)
University of Minnesota
University of Wisconsin
University of Vermont (Interviewed - rejected)
Rosalind Franklin (Interviewed - Hold)
Penn State (Interviewed - Waitlist)
St. Louis University
Commonwealth (Interviewed - rejected)
U of Colorado
Drexel
Boston University (They didn't like one of my LORs because it wasn't signed or something, but I didn't bother fixing the problem)

That's 11. I might have missed one, but I don't remember. I tried to keep it to ones with pretty average stats that took some OOS (Except Colorado). Am I selling myself short by not applying to better schools? Apparently not, since I can't even get accepted to these.

I'm of the opinion that all schools are pretty much the same and you'll learn as much as you want to learn.

Three post-interview rejections seems harsh. If I recall correctly, UVM puts most people on the waitlist post-interview so it could be an interviewing problem. It's definitely worth contacting the schools you interviewed at and asking for advice for a reapplication. There are many things that can go wrong in an interview, without it seeming obviously awkward or horrible. For instance, you could have seemed too laid-back. Someone on this forum was told that he "lacked passion." Even if it is not your personality to be energetic and show a lot of emotion, you have to realize who you are competing with. You need to get your interviewer excited in YOU and what YOU have to offer the school. You need to be memorable.

You also need to package yourself for the schools. Don't leave it up to them to sort through your various activities and interests and develop a portrait of who you are. This can be done in your personal statement and then reiterated during interviews. When adcoms go back to the table they can remember you as "the person with ____ passion." Just being a nice, conversational kid is often not enough to impress adcoms enough to pick you over someone else.

For your next cycle, I strongly recommend focusing on the intangibles of your application. Absolutely do not consider taking any more classes or retaking the MCAT. They already know that you can do well in school. "What else??"

Refocus your activity descriptions, personal statement, and secondary essays to describe yourself in a meaningful way that follows some sort of theme. For interviews, be EXPRESSIVE. This was exact advice from a med school faculty member for me.

Maybe you need to do some soul-searching and really find your passion for medicine. The fact that you mentioned lackluster interest in your only two medically related activites says something. The adcoms probably saw it, too.

 

[catswym]

OHSU (State school, Interviewed - rejected)
University of Minnesota
University of Wisconsin
University of Vermont (Interviewed - rejected)
Rosalind Franklin (Interviewed - Hold)
Penn State (Interviewed - Waitlist)
St. Louis University
Commonwealth (Interviewed - rejected)
U of Colorado
Drexel
Boston University (They didn't like one of my LORs because it wasn't signed or something, but I didn't bother fixing the problem)

That's 11. I might have missed one, but I don't remember. I tried to keep it to ones with pretty average stats that took some OOS (Except Colorado). Am I selling myself short by not applying to better schools? Apparently not, since I can't even get accepted to these.

I'm of the opinion that all schools are pretty much the same and you'll learn as much as you want to learn.

I would try more OOS private schools. YOu have a couple but not that many.

Also, am I correct in thinking you were outright rejected from UVM rather than waitlisted? If so, that's a big red flag on your interviewing skills (to me). They WL almost everyone post interview so... Have you practiced with folks (besides just your friends)?

And I think you said something above about talking to them like your friend...I would caution against that attitude. This is a professional interview where, yes they want to see your personality, but they also want to see that you understand your place in the hierarchy of medicine. Practice like it is a job interview and your interviewer is going to be your boss, not your peer.

 

[Just Joshin]

One interview at OHSU involved talking to the interviewer while we walked to the Starbucks in the hospital, and he bought me tea. He talked the whole time about tort reform and other legal issues. He seemed like a nice guy, but I hardly got a word in.

Did you contribute to the conversation at all or did you just walk along silently?

Interviewees sometimes think they have decent interviews because they think they're answering all the questions "right" when they either seem disingenuous (because they're saying what they think the interviewer wants to hear) or they say something that gives off the wrong impression.

I interviewed with a guy who came out of his interview and said he aced it. He started telling me the questions they asked and his answers. One of them was "where do you see yourself in 10 years?" His answer was that's he's a business guy so he's going to approach his practice the way he would any business and that he's hoping to be married, living in "at least" a McMansion, and driving a Benz. Nothing about the practice of medicine. Nothing about specialty. Nothing about patients. Nothing about anything but how business-minded he was. And he thought that was a good answer. So yeah, maybe you're giving answers that rub people the wrong way without realizing it.

 

[gl0baltrader]

I'm hoping that somebody has some sort of useful advice for me here, because I am at a bit of a loss. Science and cumulative GPAs are hovering around 3.6, and I have an MCAT of 37. I decided pretty late in college to go into medicine, so I didn't really bother worrying about getting A's the first few years.

So my first application cycle (2009-2010) I only applied to 5 or 6 schools. I know that was a small number, but with my MCAT and the fact that I had Loma Linda as a backup I thought I'd be fine (I went to Walla Walla University, another Adventist school where EVERYBODY goes to Loma Linda). I limited myself because wanted to stay on the West coast and thought I had the luxury to decide for myself. I probably would have gotten into LLU, but something went wrong with my application and I didn't end up interviewing until March, when there were very few spots left. I probably jeopardized my chances even more by basically telling my interviewer that I am no longer religious although I grew up in the Adventist system. Stupid of me, I know. Oh well. I've learned my lesson about honesty. It was my last resort, and I would have hated Southern California anyway. That was my only interview last year.

Fast forward a year. I applied to 12 schools, got 5 interviews this past fall/winter (including my state school OHSU) and am now on 2 waitlists. There's still a possibility that I will be accepted again, of course, but if I don't I really don't know how my application has improved since I really wasn't planning for this. I worked at a nursing home as a CNA from Feb 09 to Feb 11, but after 2 years I could not physically take the work. It is back-breaking. I'm currently only volunteering 4 hours every other week at the local science museum, and taking Biochem at university. I did volunteer in a program for Emergency Department research for a few months this last winter, but not long enough to get a LOR because I honestly found it pretty boring and worthless.

So I'm left wondering whether I just had a string of really bad luck, or if there is something I need to change? I know I hurt myself the first cycle by limiting my applications, but this cycle is beyond me. I realize that statistically there is always a chance that even the most qualified applicants won't get picked. Should I just go for it again with the same stats?

I've been reading here recently about people sending letters of intent to schools after interviews. Is this really expected, or is it something that only the really over-the-top people do? I've just been biding my time trying to keep my mind off the process now that I've interviewed. Has that hurt my chances at all?

If you've read all this, thanks.

Hi Arid,

I don't think there is anything lacking in your GPA/MCAT. As many people in this thread mentioned, it could be due to something else. For example:

1. Lack of interview skills - Having a great interpersonal skills is essential not only in the interview process but also in the future when you work with patients and/or other health professional. My GPA/MCAT is not as good as yours and I was able to get in to 3 out of the 4 schools that I interviewed. I believe a lot of my success in gaining admission is associated to my interview.

2. Lack of activities - How's your extracurricular activities ? Are you doing things that you love or doing things that you have to get in to med school. A lot of the times, the interviewer could tell if you are passionate about your activities or just doing it for "med school". For example, in two of my interviews, we talked about my non-medical extracurricular activities, like international work etc...
By the end, my interviewer thanked me for interviewing and that he had learned so much from me.

3. What did you talked about in your interview??

My advice: I would wait another year rather than applying again right away because school will want to see some sort of improvement from the previous year. Also, y didn't you apply to Univ of Washington ??

GOOD LUCK, I hope that you'll get off the waitlist.

Cheers,
D

 

[MadMedic704]

Have you done much physician shadowing? You said you worked as a CNA which is medically relevant, but did you get much out of the experience that you could talk about at your interviews. The best way to improve you app may be to do some extensive shadowing or some more hospital volunteer work.

Are you working now, or is all you're doing is taking a single class and volunteering every other week? If not you may want to consider adding a bit more to you're plate. Med schools will probably not be that impressed with an A in biochem if you've got tons a free time.

 

[chuck84]

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

I guess it could be the interviews. There was one that was particularly painful, but a lot of them seemed to go pretty well. I think I'm pretty good at being relaxed and just talking like I would with a friend, but maybe I'm trying to be too friendly and not focusing on the questions enough.

I also hate when they ask if I have any questions. I never do.

One interview at OHSU involved talking to the interviewer while we walked to the Starbucks in the hospital, and he bought me tea. He talked the whole time about tort reform and other legal issues. He seemed like a nice guy, but I hardly got a word in.

You didn't ask them any questions? I'd have some questions ready to ask next time.

 

[SteveJMarist]

You didn't ask them any questions? I'd have some questions ready to ask next time.

Yea- wow. That's interviewing 101. You must have questions! That's definitely one of your biggest issues lol.

 

[FIREitUP]

Yea- wow. That's interviewing 101. You must have questions! That's definitely one of your biggest issues lol.

I disagree with this. I don't think having or not having questions has that much impact on your interview unless you just expressed general disinterest in the school. Most of your questions can be answered from the tour and oftentimes your tour precedes the interview.

 

[Bull2012]

I honestly think you have great stats. I know DO schools would have no problems with your stats. I don't know about MD schools, because I'm only interested in DO, but I'm sure your stats are pretty good for MD as well.

I think acceptances have a lot to do with your interviews. Getting to the interview stage means that the school already sees you as a qualified applicant. The interview is for both you and the school to see if you're good fits for each other. So all you need to do is be confident, be honest, and genuine in your interviews.

For the record, I have applied 3 times. The first two times were failures, but my third time I was able to land some interviews. I improved my application significantly with lots of volunteering, job shadowing, and retook some core science classes for better grades. My stats are relatively crappy compared to yours, but I was lucky enough to get accepted to a DO school. I agree with the above poster that it probably has to do with your interviewing skills. Keep trying and good luck!

I heard that people send letter of intents when they're on the waitlist, but I'm not totally sure on that. Always send thank you notes to your interviewers and admin faculty at the school, because that's just good manners

I am going to be applying to DO school next year after I try to get my GPA up i have a 3.2 cum and a 3.0 sc, I was just wondering what your stats were. I havent taken the MCAT yet that will be at the end of the summer but I was just curious of your stats. Thanks

 

[SNDO]

I am going to be applying to DO school next year after I try to get my GPA up i have a 3.2 cum and a 3.0 sc, I was just wondering what your stats were. I havent taken the MCAT yet that will be at the end of the summer but I was just curious of your stats. Thanks

Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what my stats are lol. I'm guessing my cGPA is around 3.4 or 3.5, and my sGPA is at least a 3.2. I'd have to see how AACOMAS calculated my GPA, because I took classes at a 4-yr. university, and I also took classes at a community college after I graduated.

Have you taken any practice MCAT tests to gauge your score? My test scores in order are: 20M, 23Q, 24M. For me, I haven't made a "huge improvement" test-wise, but I made up for it with other things like my volunteer experiences and personal statement. That's what I'd like to believe anyway

Anyway, good luck on the MCAT!

 

[b1ge10w]

Wow, Arid. Reading about your experiences, it's almost like I could have written them myself. The only difference being that my GPA is a bit lower (3.25s, 3.4c) I took the MCAT in Sept 09 but got a 37, so I applied to some schools sparingly. Only got one interview at Buffalo and was straight out rejected. This year I applied to 14, had 5 interviews, and am now on two waitlists. So I understand what you're going through.

At times it's been really tough and I've thought about just giving up on this whole thing, but ultimately there's nothing I'd rather do than be a physician. I called a bunch of schools and sent out some emails, the only one who got back to me so far was Hofstra (they were extremely helpful). They said my interview scores weren't bad but just a little bit on the low side. To me those were my best interviews, so I'm sure it also has to do with my interviewing skills.

I'm re-applying this year, staying positive, and hopefully with some better luck this time around, I'll be starting med school in 2012!