Possible Dream Job interview...would love some advice!

[FreudianSlippers]

So long story short i'm minding my own business, building my private practice, and out of left field I get contacted by a headhunter for a clinical director position of a huge behavioral health facility. The specialty of this place/population is exactly what I'm interested in, it pays a crap ton, and overall I am getting far too excited for it. However, I'm somewhat newly licensed, and have only ever had job interviews for the typical internship/post-doc and then several psychologist positions at local organizations....nothing ever for a clinical director position! I have no idea what sort of questions to expect....would love any thoughts or ideas on how to prepare. Thanks!!

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[cara susanna]

Congrats on the interview! I would assume that they'll ask you about leadership and supervisory experience, although I'm not positive (I live in VA land, haha).

 

[Sanman]

Congrats, I am glad to hear it! They will likely ask how you would handle any number of situations, supervisory experience, etc. Depends on where the interview is and how formal they prefer you to be.

Now I am going to take the wind out of your sails. Don't get too excited and forget to do your due diligence. Why are they recruiting for this position? Why are they interested in someone without prior supervisory experience? What happened to the last guy? It may be to your benefit and it may not be depending on the answers to these questions. There are many positions out there that are good for 1-3 years and burn you out (ask me how I know). Don't take closing your PP lightly,

 

[DynamicDidactic]

does it sound too good to be true?

 

[WisNeuro]

I would be highly suspicious if someone offered me a director position of a large organization right out of training.

 

[Sanman]

I would be highly suspicious if someone offered me a director position of a large organization right out of training.

Depends on the org, I know several people that were "clinical director" right out of internship as the only doctoral level provider in the facility. This was mostly in the substance abuse or inpatient areas where pay was not high.

 

[FreudianSlippers]

I appreciate all the feedback and insights! Usually my scam radar is on point (I value skepticism). I'll give a bit more context...the "headhunter" was from a consultation company that works primarily with mental health organizations. I looked them up, cross reference the person I spoke to, and everything seemed legit. The guy I spoke with told me the company I am interviewing with is "aggressively" (lol) looking to fill this position. It's a very niche position, and I think they want a clinical psychologist specifically. I agree that It is weird how they would consider somebody so freshly licensed...but maybe they are that desperate? For instance, I am actually in an entirely different City (over 150 miles away). If I do end up doing this job, they will also pay substantial moving costs. The current clinical director has a massive CV. He's well known, a professor, published over 100 studies, etc etc. Talk about imposter syndrome.

 

[WisNeuro]

Depends on the org, I know several people that were "clinical director" right out of internship as the only doctoral level provider in the facility. This was mostly in the substance abuse or inpatient areas where pay was not high.

I could definitely see it in some circumstances (community health centers, rural settings) but those jobs in desirable metros get a crap ton of applications. Why choose someone new over the 10 applications you have of people with experience?

 

[FreudianSlippers]

Congrats, I am glad to hear it! They will likely ask how you would handle any number of situations, supervisory experience, etc. Depends on where the interview is and how formal they prefer you to be.

Now I am going to take the wind out of your sails. Don't get too excited and forget to do your due diligence. Why are they recruiting for this position? Why are they interested in someone without prior supervisory experience? What happened to the last guy? It may be to your benefit and it may not be depending on the answers to these questions. There are many positions out there that are good for 1-3 years and burn you out (ask me how I know). Don't take closing your PP lightly,

Thanks Sanman! lol I appreciate the reality check. These are questions I will be sure to ask them. Also, the PP has taken a hit since Covid-19 and wrapping up shop wouldn't be the most difficult thing at this point. But it would be soooooo much networking down the drain.

 

[WisNeuro]

I appreciate all the feedback and insights! Usually my scam radar is on point (I value skepticism). I'll give a bit more context...the "headhunter" was from a consultation company that works primarily with mental health organizations. I looked them up, cross reference the person I spoke to, and everything seemed legit. The guy I spoke with told me the company I am interviewing with is "aggressively" (lol) looking to fill this position. It's a very niche position, and I think they want a clinical psychologist specifically. I agree that It is weird how they would consider somebody so freshly licensed...but maybe they are that desperate? For instance, I am actually in an entirely different City (over 150 miles away). If I do end up doing this job, they will also pay substantial moving costs. The current clinical director has a massive CV. He's well known, a professor, published over 100 studies, etc etc. Talk about imposter syndrome.

Sounds good, I hope for the best for you. I'd want to get a pretty good handle on what this job looks like day to day. How many hours are spent in admin vs. clinical vs. research, etc? A good paying job looks a lot less like good pay if the hours required go from 40 to 60 for the same salary.

 

[FreudianSlippers]

Sounds good, I hope for the best for you. I'd want to get a pretty god handle on what this job looks like day to day. How many hours are spent in admin vs. clinical vs. research, etc? A good paying job looks a lot less like good pay if the hours required go from 40 to 60 for the same salary.

Thanks WisNeuro! Great points. I'm going to put these questions on my list to ask. I figure its a win/win. Worst case I just end up continuing to invest in my private practice

 

[Justanothergrad]

Always ask about what the previous director did well, where they could improve/where issues need focus, and what their reasons for transitioning out of the role / why the job is open.

 

[deleted343839]

I think @smalltownpsych has been in a similar kind of role - he's been less active on the forum this past year but has been spotted lately.

 

[erg923]

That's sound like big step and alot of responsibility for someone just 2-3 years out of grad school. I would be curious about institutional culture, politics and protections. A clinical director position for a "huge behavioral health facility" could be overwhelming, or it could be a title with little actual authority. Curious to see what's up.

 

[PsyDr]

Just think of the things they will consider weaknesses. Then come up with counter arguments. Things like:

"While some may consider my status as an early career person to be a negative, I believe that this allows me to have newer knowledge, better focus, and... with all due respect to my colleagues... a lot more energy. "

"You know, in taking advanced coursework in how to manage groups of people from all walks of life, I was exposed to the research that showed that experience doesn't really equate with performance. Now maybe that's not wholly true. And to answer your question about my lack of experience, I'm sure I have things to learn as I go. But I am in a position in my career where I am extremely used to seeking advice when I am out of my depth. Maybe you see that as a strength, maybe you see that as a weakness. I don't know."

Then you know... basic mirroring of their posture. Positively reinforce things that benefit you in the conversation ("that's a really good point"; "I'm glad you asked that"; etc). Don't reinforce things that get you away from your goals. Look up the interviewers. Dress for success. Etc.


Be aware that they might be using you. It's a standard business move to give a job offer to an early career person at a relatively lower rate. And then to use that lower rate as a point of negotiation for the person they really want to hire. "Look Dr. OLDY, we really want to make this happen, but I have a psychologist who is willing to move across the state and take 60% of what you're asking. Meet me in the middle." Then if Dr. OLDY takes it, they rescind the offer.


So... maybe don't shut down your PP quickly. Maybe have an attorney go over the contract.

 

[FreudianSlippers]

Just think of the things they will consider weaknesses. Then come up with counter arguments. Things like:

"While some may consider my status as an early career person to be a negative, I believe that this allows me to have newer knowledge, better focus, and... with all due respect to my colleagues... a lot more energy. "

"You know, in taking advanced coursework in how to manage groups of people from all walks of life, I was exposed to the research that showed that experience doesn't really equate with performance. Now maybe that's not wholly true. And to answer your question about my lack of experience, I'm sure I have things to learn as I go. But I am in a position in my career where I am extremely used to seeking advice when I am out of my depth. Maybe you see that as a strength, maybe you see that as a weakness. I don't know."

Then you know... basic mirroring of their posture. Positively reinforce things that benefit you in the conversation ("that's a really good point"; "I'm glad you asked that"; etc). Don't reinforce things that get you away from your goals. Look up the interviewers. Dress for success. Etc.


Be aware that they might be using you. It's a standard business move to give a job offer to an early career person at a relatively lower rate. And then to use that lower rate as a point of negotiation for the person they really want to hire. "Look Dr. OLDY, we really want to make this happen, but I have a psychologist who is willing to move across the state and take 60% of what you're asking. Meet me in the middle." Then if Dr. OLDY takes it, they rescind the offer.


So... maybe don't shut down your PP quickly. Maybe have an attorney go over the contract.

Damn that's some solid advice. I'll definitely practice reviewing counter arguments. Also really good to know about the possibility of being used..that didn't even cross my mind but it's so helpful to be aware of those possible dynamics. Thank you!! I'll keep everyone updated...interview is soonish

 

[StellaB]

At this particular moment, I know of several sites near me who are having a tough time filling open psychologist positions, and I get head-hunter stuff like this frequently as well. Just last week I was hit-up to apply for a clinical training position at a local university for their college counseling center... and I'm a forensic psychologist, so that makes pretty much zero sense. Unsure if other areas are also seeing a high vacancy rate of psychologist positions. I'm in a populous, desirable coastal state. Good luck in your interview, maybe the timing is just right in the job market and you fit the niche and it works out! There are already a sea of articles about the significant increase in need for mental health services given the ongoing pandemic, might be great job security for most of us (forensics, sadly, pretty unaffected or potentially decreased need).

 

[PsyDr]

Damn that's some solid advice. I'll definitely practice reviewing counter arguments. Also really good to know about the possibility of being used..that didn't even cross my mind but it's so helpful to be aware of those possible dynamics. Thank you!! I'll keep everyone updated...interview is soonish

That move is the reverse of what Josh did in the office, which is why Stamford closed down and the Scranton branch was saved.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

That move is the reverse of what Josh did in the office, which is why Stamford closed down and the Scranton branch was saved.

Jim seemed to be a bit judgy of Josh with that move....was it a sketch thing to do?

 

[FreudianSlippers]

So here's a late update I wanted to give....drumroll please.....I never heard back! The "head hunting" consultation company never responded about the job after I interviewed, and i'm assuming they found somebody else. Kind of rude if you ask me.

In better news, my private practice is picking up pace again (yay) and I started contracting with a high end PHP/IOP that will really help me continue to build my specialization, which is exciting!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Bummer about the position; unfortunately, not hearing back isn't entirely uncommon. But at least you gained the interviewing experience, and it sounds like other things are looking up.