Possible reapp looking for advice (3.91 GPA, 516 MCAT)

[Hopefulpremed29]

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Hi everyone,

As per the title I am unfortunately preparing for a possible reapp. I wanted to know what I should focus on over the next few months to try and improve my application for the next cycle. Please let me know if you have any thoughts on where I fell short and advice for what to improve. I really appreciate the support!

- F, CA ORM from a large CA public university

- 3.93 GPA, 516 MCAT

- Clinical Volunteer then promoted to Clinical Research Coordinator mid cycle in a clinical trial (350 hours completed, 750 hours expected)

- Research Assistant in a computational neurobiology lab (1000+ hours)

- Student Teaching Assistant (not a normal TA, it is like a TA assistant): 370 hours

- Medical Interpreter: 500 hours

- Shadowing: 75 hours

- Clinical volunteering (health fairs, medical assistant) : 230 hours

- Non clinical volunteering (food pantry, Blood center front desk, clubs) : 590 hours

Recommenders: science prof, history prof, 2 Research PIs

I did apply straight through with no gap year. I also have no publications, and did not have an MD letter of rec. I will have an MD letter if I have to apply this cycle, and hopefully a publication as well. Not sure if those are considered "substantial updates" though so I want to know what else I may be able to do to get a different result.


Thank you for any advice!

 

[wysdoc]

Hi everyone,

As per the title I am unfortunately preparing for a possible reapp. I wanted to know what I should focus on over the next few months to try and improve my application for the next cycle. Please let me know if you have any thoughts on where I fell short and advice for what to improve. I really appreciate the support!

- F, CA ORM from a large CA public university

- 3.93 GPA, 516 MCAT

- Clinical Volunteer then promoted to Clinical Research Coordinator mid cycle in a clinical trial (350 hours completed, 750 hours expected)

- Research Assistant in a computational neurobiology lab (1000+ hours)

- Student Teaching Assistant (not a normal TA, it is like a TA assistant): 370 hours

- Medical Interpreter: 500 hours

- Shadowing: 75 hours

- Clinical volunteering (health fairs, medical assistant) : 230 hours

- Non clinical volunteering (food pantry, Blood center front desk, clubs) : 590 hours

Recommenders: science prof, history prof, 2 Research PIs

I did apply straight through with no gap year. I also have no publications, and did not have an MD letter of rec. I will have an MD letter if I have to apply this cycle, and hopefully a publication as well. Not sure if those are considered "substantial updates" though so I want to know what else I may be able to do to get a different result.


Thank you for any advice!

Where did you interview this year and are you on their WL or awaiting decision still?

 

[Hopefulpremed29]

Where did you interview this year and are you on their WL or awaiting decision still?

I'm on two waitlists (Georgetown and Maryland) and awaiting a decision from Pitt. These are all the interviews I got

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What hours did you declare in your current application? Please break down the non-clinical volunteering experiences.

I suggest you trust the process. Waitlist movement is coming.

 

[Hopefulpremed29]

What hours did you declare in your current application? Please break down the non-clinical volunteering experiences.

I suggest you trust the process. Waitlist movement is coming.

These are the hours from my current application, not including the anticipated ones.

For non-clinical volunteering I did 200 hours at a food pantry, 170 hours from a blood bank club (tabling, front desk), and 220 hours of volunteer work with my clubs (organizing fundraisers, volunteering in the community, handing out essential products, etc.)

Let me know if there's any other info that would help.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

And clinical volunteering... there are two positions or one? The way you have listed it, it's not clear. One of them is a clinical volunteering position that turned into a clinical research position. Then there is another random clinical volunteering position... what did you do there that's different?

I think it's just a matter of hours compared to the pool (noting no campus involvement is included in the WAMC). You may just simply need a bit more experience, but that also means you never know if you get an offer.

 

[Hopefulpremed29]

And clinical volunteering... there are two positions or one? The way you have listed it, it's not clear. One of them is a clinical volunteering position that turned into a clinical research position. Then there is another random clinical volunteering position... what did you do there that's different?

I think it's just a matter of hours compared to the pool (noting no campus involvement is included in the WAMC). You may just simply need a bit more experience, but that also means you never know if you get an offer.

I have my clinical research position which at the time of submitting my primary was all clinical hours ( I work directly with participants, take measures, assist with MRIs etc.). Then I was promoted to a clinical research coordinator BUT I split my time with 10 hours of clinical duties (same as previously listed) and 10 more hours of lab admin work.

For the other clinical volunteering I volunteer at health fairs (teach people how to take blood pressure, manage diabetes) and I also volunteered as a medical assistant a free clinic serving people without health insurance.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "noting no campus involvement is included in the WAMC". Are you saying that I should get more involved with my campus? All of my clubs are clubs on campus and some of them directly serve students or the community. Do you have suggestions for what kind of involvement might be beneficial.

My main concern is that for reapps I know they want some big change between your cycles because obviously if it didn't work out the first time, it doesn't make sense for you to be accepted the 2nd time with no real changes. The only changes I have other than continuing my activities so I have more hours in all of them are that I will have an MD letter of rec and also hopefully a publication. I am not sure if those are considered "substantial". Hence, asking for suggestions if there is any weak point I can work on

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "noting no campus involvement is included in the WAMC". Are you saying that I should get more involved with my campus? All of my clubs are clubs on campus and some of them directly serve students or the community. Do you have suggestions for what kind of involvement might be beneficial.

Where are they listed in your first post? You wrote:

- Clinical Volunteer then promoted to Clinical Research Coordinator mid cycle in a clinical trial (350 hours completed, 750 hours expected)
- Research Assistant in a computational neurobiology lab (1000+ hours)
- Student Teaching Assistant (not a normal TA, it is like a TA assistant): 370 hours
- Medical Interpreter: 500 hours
- Shadowing: 75 hours
- Clinical volunteering (health fairs, medical assistant) : 230 hours
- Non clinical volunteering (food pantry, Blood center front desk, clubs) : 590 hours

Are you saying all of your non-clinical volunteering was done through campus organizations? Clinical volunteering? Medical interpretation and shadowing?

My main concern is that for reapps I know they want some big change between your cycles because obviously if it didn't work out the first time, it doesn't make sense for you to be accepted the 2nd time with no real changes. The only changes I have other than continuing my activities so I have more hours in all of them are that I will have an MD letter of rec and also hopefully a publication. I am not sure if those are considered "substantial". Hence, asking for suggestions if there is any weak point I can work on

Sometimes it does because you fail to align your school list with mission in the way you present your profile. Without your application, it's difficult to say if your writing was a factor.

 

[Hopefulpremed29]

Where are they listed in your first post? You wrote:


Are you saying all of your non-clinical volunteering was done through campus organizations? Clinical volunteering? Medical interpretation and shadowing?



Sometimes it does because you fail to align your school list with mission in the way you present your profile. Without your application, it's difficult to say if your writing was a factor.

Just re-wrote the list with more details to make it more clear:

- Clinical Volunteer then promoted to Clinical Research Coordinator mid cycle in a clinical trial (350 hours completed, 750 hours expected)

• This is separate because at the time I submitted by primary I had it as 10 hours/week in a clinical role, now I do 10 hours/week clinical duties and 10 hours/week lab coordinator duties and get paid for these 20 hours so it isn't volunteering anymore.

- Research Assistant in a computational neurobiology lab (1000+ hours)

- Clinical Volunteering

• Medical interpreter at a large clinic that provides healthcare to underserved populations (not club related): 500 hours
• Medical assistant at that same clinic (not club related): 150 hours
• Health fairs (run by a campus club I am in): 80 hours

- Non clinical volunteering

• Food pantry, volunteered here a lot summer after my first year (not club related): 200 hours
• Blood center: 172 hours (volunteered at the on-campus blood center)
• Club volunteering as part of 2 campus clubs where we organized and run fundraisers, created informational pamphlets to distribute at health fairs, made recipe books to promote health eating for different diets etc, collected donations and distributed women's health products to students on campus in need: 218 hours

- Student Teaching Assistant (not a normal TA, it is like a TA assistant): 370 hours
- Shadowing: 75 hours

 

[chilly_md]

What language did you interpret?

You can add some more food bank hours but largely it will be school list and interview prep if you end up needing to reapply.

 

[Hopefulpremed29]

What language did you interpret?

You can add some more food bank hours but largely it will be school list and interview prep if you end up needing to reapply.

I am a Spanish-English medical interpreter.

Do you have any advice for how many schools to apply to the 2nd time around? I applied to 31 this time and was thinking of applying to around 40 next cycle to help increase chances. I'll make sure the additional schools are more 'baseline/target'. I'll also have some more time to pre-write this time since I am graduating early and the end of my school year won't run into application season.

 

[chilly_md]

I am a Spanish-English medical interpreter.

Do you have any advice for how many schools to apply to the 2nd time around? I applied to 31 this time and was thinking of applying to around 40 next cycle to help increase chances. I'll make sure the additional schools are more 'baseline/target'. I'll also have some more time to pre-write this time since I am graduating early and the end of my school year won't run into application season.

30 well-chosen schools is a good number. CA applicants sometimes apply to 35 or 40 due to how competitive their in-state options are. Where did you apply?

Fluency in Spanish could help at Arizona Phoenix, Einstein and Miami potentially.

 

[Hopefulpremed29]

30 well-chosen schools is a good number. CA applicants sometimes apply to 35 or 40 due to how competitive their in-state options are. Where did you apply?

Fluency in Spanish could help at Arizona Phoenix, Einstein and Miami potentially.

I applied to:

UCLA
UCI
UCSD
UC Riverside
UC Davis
Kaiser
Stanford
USC
Georgetown - Interview --> Waitlist
Pitt - Interview
Einstein
Weill Cornell
Sinai
Columbia
Albany Medical College
Maryland - Interview --> Waitlist
George Washington
U Cincinnati
Wisconsin
UMichigan
UA Phoenix
Emory
Tulane
UVA
UMass
Brown
Boston University
Tufts
Dartmouth

 

[chilly_md]

Your list had many good OOS options that you were competitive for. Some were not quite a fit. I would suggest these if you must reapply:

UCI
UCSD
UC Riverside (only if from the IE)
UC Davis
Kaiser
USC
Georgetown - Interview --> Waitlist
Pitt - Interview
Einstein
Albany Medical College
NYMC
Hofstra
Rochester
Maryland - Interview --> Waitlist
U Cincinnati
Ohio State
Case
UA Phoenix
Emory
Tulane
VCU
EVMS
UMass
Tufts
Dartmouth
Vermont
Wake
Colorado
UIC (high tuition FYI)
Miami
USF Morsani
Saint Louis (not WUSTL)
Jefferson
Western Michigan
Hackensack

 

[Dr.Freedman MedEdits]

With three interviews, you are in great shape. This is the "magic number" for most applicants. Before thinking about a reapplication, I'd suggest you do your best to convert those waitlists to acceptances. Of the three schools, which would you say is your top choice? When was the Pitt interview? For a junior year medical school applicant you have a great mix of experiences, but agree you should start to strategize about what you might engage in during a gap year to further bolster your candidacy should that become necessary. With med school applicants at your stage, taking a dual approach to improve your candidacy while sending update letters and letters of intent to your top choice is what we'd recommend. An MD letter is not necessary to apply to medical school. Your two PI letters were likely gold this season.

 

[Hopefulpremed29]

With three interviews, you are in great shape. This is the "magic number" for most applicants. Before thinking about a reapplication, I'd suggest you do your best to convert those waitlists to acceptances. Of the three schools, which would you say is your top choice? When was the Pitt interview? For a junior year medical school applicant you have a great mix of experiences, but agree you should start to strategize about what you might engage in during a gap year to further bolster your candidacy should that become necessary. With med school applicants at your stage, taking a dual approach to improve your candidacy while sending update letters and letters of intent to your top choice is what we'd recommend. An MD letter is not necessary to apply to medical school. Your two PI letters were likely gold this season.

Thanks! I am really hoping that either Pitt or one of the waitlists pulls through. I interviewed at Pitt and the end of Jan but should hear back in the next couple weeks or so.

Do you have any advice for improving my application? So far I am just trying to do some more volunteer hours and should be starting a medical assistant position for more clinical hours that I could continue in a gap year if needed. Again, my main concern is that I don't know if any of my new activities will be considered "substantial changes" which is what schools look for in a reapp. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Dr.Freedman MedEdits]

Clinical research coordinator positions are often the best opportunities to gain patient exposure and research experience. We wouldn't necessarily recommend trade-in that for a medical assistant position. Your interpreter experience is also terrific. Could you do this on a part time volunteer basis somewhere? Oftentimes substantial activity changes aren't necessary on a reapplication; sometimes making a better-rounded school list and more compelling narrative is what leads to better outcomes on a reapplication. Consider your letter of intent strategy for the three schools where you have interviewed.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Moving to WAMC

 

[derek dixon]

Thanks! I am really hoping that either Pitt or one of the waitlists pulls through. I interviewed at Pitt and the end of Jan but should hear back in the next couple weeks or so.

Do you have any advice for improving my application? So far I am just trying to do some more volunteer hours and should be starting a medical assistant position for more clinical hours that I could continue in a gap year if needed. Again, my main concern is that I don't know if any of my new activities will be considered "substantial changes" which is what schools look for in a reapp. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!

Med schools are shying away from taking people straight from undergrad, your application is not the problem (excellent app by the way). Retention rates at med schools have gone down slightly so I think they are just being cautious. I had a friend similar stats to you, all he did was re-apply and got in no problem with no significant changes over that gap year. I don't think you are lacking anything just a culture shifts in med schools. Also, think about how your interviews went and if that could be a factor.

All that being said, I'm betting one of your waitlist will pull through, you have plenty of time to get off the waitlist and I agree that you should try your hardest to get off of it if you haven't already. I'm hoping I typed all this in vain and you've already been accepted!!

 

[Hopefulpremed29]

Med schools are shying away from taking people straight from undergrad, your application is not the problem (excellent app by the way). Retention rates at med schools have gone down slightly so I think they are just being cautious. I had a friend similar stats to you, all he did was re-apply and got in no problem with no significant changes over that gap year. I don't think you are lacking anything just a culture shifts in med schools. Also, think about how your interviews went and if that could be a factor.

All that being said, I'm betting one of your waitlist will pull through, you have plenty of time to get off the waitlist and I agree that you should try your hardest to get off of it if you haven't already. I'm hoping I typed all this in vain and you've already been accepted!!

Thank you! Unfortunately that is not the case. I am waitlisted at Pitt as well so I am officially on 3 waitlists 🙁(

Prepping for a reapp while doing what I can to get off the waitlists...

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Med schools are shying away from taking people straight from undergrad, your application is not the problem (excellent app by the way). Retention rates at med schools have gone down slightly so I think they are just being cautious. I had a friend similar stats to you, all he did was re-apply and got in no problem with no significant changes over that gap year. I don't think you are lacking anything just a culture shifts in med schools. Also, think about how your interviews went and if that could be a factor.

All that being said, I'm betting one of your waitlist will pull through, you have plenty of time to get off the waitlist and I agree that you should try your hardest to get off of it if you haven't already. I'm hoping I typed all this in vain and you've already been accepted!!

Maybe I'm just disagreeing from a perspective difference. I don't know if med schools are just shying away from traditional applicants; maybe many prefer more "polished" applicants who don't have a missing semester of pending courses when submitting an application. There's also always a desire to see what activities you continue to do once you no longer have the "undergrad coursework" anchor on your time. (In other words, getting off-campus.)

Again, we're speculating. I don't know about retention at med schools going down... can someone cite me a peer-reviewed study on this?

 

[derek dixon]

Maybe I'm just disagreeing from a perspective difference. I don't know if med schools are just shying away from traditional applicants; maybe many prefer more "polished" applicants who don't have a missing semester of pending courses when submitting an application. There's also always a desire to see what activities you continue to do once you no longer have the "undergrad coursework" anchor on your time. (In other words, getting off-campus.)

Again, we're speculating. I don't know about retention at med schools going down... can someone cite me a peer-reviewed study on this?

Speculation for sure, but going through the cycle myself recently and being involved with pre-meds and current medical students over the past few years at various schools seems to be the case. I'd love to see some research on that too, but I assume that will be something coming out here in the next few years if the problem is currently happening.

 

[derek dixon]

Thank you! Unfortunately that is not the case. I am waitlisted at Pitt as well so I am officially on 3 waitlists 🙁(

Prepping for a reapp while doing what I can to get off the waitlists...

Good luck!

All you need is one so do your best!!!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Speculation for sure, but going through the cycle myself recently and being involved with pre-meds and current medical students over the past few years at various schools seems to be the case. I'd love to see some research on that too, but I assume that will be something coming out here in the next few years if the problem is currently happening.

Again, it's dangerous to assume unless you are privy to the overall data and the specific definitions of "retention."

Like, there are many students who are still retained even though they are on LOA or given a "five-year graduation plan." Given what we have seen with studies on decreased reading and math skills among K-12 and college students coming out of the pandemic that a similar trend is observed in medical school... but it doesn't mean you'd necessarily see a big drop in retention. Again, I would need to see the data on this.

But the trend to accept students with at least a gap year has been true for about a decade. COVID made it more likely that students took a gap year before starting medical school. Or should take one.

 

[derek dixon]

Again, it's dangerous to assume unless you are privy to the overall data and the specific definitions of "retention."

Like, there are many students who are still retained even though they are on LOA or given a "five-year graduation plan." Given what we have seen with studies on decreased reading and math skills among K-12 and college students coming out of the pandemic that a similar trend is observed in medical school... but it doesn't mean you'd necessarily see a big drop in retention. Again, I would need to see the data on this.

But the trend to accept students with at least a gap year has been true for about a decade. COVID made it more likely that students took a gap year before starting medical school. Or should take one.

Lol, yeah not really here to debate. I like the energy though!