possibly a dumb Q about LOR's....

[FitnessModelMD]

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i have a question about the LOR's,

if you get 5 LOR's from different instructors/physicians etc...then you send out ur primary and apply to like 20 schools, what if you get 15 secondaries requesting LOR's ???

do they accept copies? are you folks asking the writer of your LOR's to make 20-25 copies of the letter and sign them all ? what if the person seals the LOR, how can u make copies to send out to schools?

 

[UCLAMAN]

UCLA has a LOR service where the LOR writers send your letters to. They are kept confidential there and you may not see them. When one wants to send those letters to schools there is a small(or big depending on your POV) fee to have the career center service make copies of the letters to be sent to 20 or however many schools.

Perhaps your undergrad has a similar service? Most universities require you to use such a service if it is available.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Most schools have pre-medical committees or deans that take all of your recs. and then write an institutional recommendation. All of your letters and the institutional recommendations are sent to medical schools that you apply by that office.

Does your school have an office like that?

 

[Rapid Decomposition]

Schools accept copies, but they won't accept them if *you* make them. I think most schools' pre-health offices have a letter-sending service, whereby they will make copies for you and send them out to all the schools that you request them to. But if this doesn't apply to you (your school doesn't have one or you are out of school) then I think you have to get your recommenders to send your letters to every school...but I don't know about this, since my school has a letter-sending service. Anyone know any better?

 

[wolferman]

I think that most folks without access to a letter collection service have their recommenders mail out copies of the LOR to each school. I imagine it could get pretty annoying though.

 

[moviefreak]

my friends gave stamps and prepared envelopes with the school add where they want the letter mailed to their recommenders. i think it's important for the recommenders to use their letterheads and seal the envelopes. as far as what envelope is used, i don't think it matters much.

 

[meanderson]

Fitness, if your school does not have a letter service, then you are pretty much screwed. I'm in the same situation, and from checking things out and emailing schools I found out that we have to get each recommender to send the letter of rec to each school. So yeah....you will have to get 5 different people to send 20 letters to 20 different schools.

To make matters worse, you may not even be able to instruct them to send all the letters in at once because some schools I contacted specifically told me to send the LOR's in only when they are requested. So you may have to keep contacting these 5 letter writers and say "ok, now send in school X" whenever you get the secondary for that school.

But maybe your school has a letter service. If they do, use it. Small schools that don't have letter services are really making things difficult for their applicants. I know I'm not going to apply to as many schools now because of this problem.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Some students have suggested this private company which provides the same service. www.interfolio.com

This sounds like a reasonable alternative.

 

[canadagirl]

I did an AMCAS primary app this year, and then didn't follow through with any secondaries - I just couldn't face asking my references to send out all those LOR's! (We don't have any kind of service to collect and resend our letters for us)

If I don't get into a Canadian school this year, and then apply to American schools next year, I'm going to deal with this by:

1. Getting more people to write references than I need so that I can spread them around. Instead of asking each writer for 10 letters, I can ask for 5, if I have twice as many references.

2. Asking EARLY and giving them LOTS OF TIME so that it's less of a pain. Also making it easy on them by giving them clear instructions, forms attached to pre-stamped, pre-addressed envelopes.

3. Limiting the number of schools that I apply to. When OTHER people are being inconvenienced by my application, I have to make sure that I apply ONLY to schools that I would seriously go to and seriously have a chance of getting accepted to.

4. Thank-you cards for all references, and gifts for those references who like such things. (I have some references who hate getting gifts from undergrads because they think that poor students shouldnt' be giving professors things, and that it's a bribe. 🙂 )

In Ontario, we have OMSAS which is analagous to AMCAS, except that it's only for the five Ontario medical schools. But we send our letters directly to OMSAS who then distribute copies to the schools. WHY CAN'T AMCAS DO THIS??? If all of us write them saying that we'd be willing to pay extra for this service, maybe they would? It would save a ton of time for reference-writers, and also even for people who have pre-med offices to handle this, save the hassle of checking that letters get there on time, etc.

 

[osar92]

the premed adviser at my school suggested using this website
www.interfolio.com

i havent signed up yet, but check it out... it might turn out to be a good option

 

[ready]

There is no letter service at my school. I did what canadagirl suggests and tried to alternate references depending on the school. Each school asked for something a little different (some were for MD some MD/PhD), some wanted nonscience, some only wanted 2 letters which had to be from science profs.

I made up packages of labels and stamps and emailed addresses to my refs. I also made sure I let them know way early and was very nice about it.

I sent mine out in 3 waves. The refs liked this and since I didn't get my secondaries I tried to coordinate the waves with when I had/was planning to send out the secondary.

Doing it this way slowed down my apps, but I had never heard of this interfolio.com site. Also, my refs ended up sending out letters to schools whose secondaries I didn't finish (for various reasons). This was not fun to explain, but they all understood that it happened because I had tried to make it easier for them.

I sent out thank you cards after the second wave, and I have tried to keep them all up to date on my application progress.

So I guess it can be a disadvantage to attend a small school. However, usually your profs know you better and end up writing a better letter for you.

Good luck, your fun is just beginning.

 

[FitnessModelMD]

how about asking each ref. to write the letter and make 20-25 copies and sign each one, then seal them and then just send them to each school that you want to?

 

[meanderson]

I tried contacting interfolio and haven't gotten a response yet. On their website they don't mention anything about having a system which allows applicants to waive the right to view the letters. This would be essential. The way I read the website, they give you a code and put all your LOR's online so that you can look at them anytime you want. This defeats the whole concept.

Also, I contacted some admissions offices and asked them about using a service like this, and most said that if my undergrad didn't have a letter service I needed to wait for the secondary to come and then have my letter writers send in their letters around the same time as my secondary. So it looks like many medical schools won't accept a packet from a company like this anyway.

I'd say our prospects look pretty bleak. What's so unfair about this is that this system actually *hurts* our chances because we aren't applying to as many schools. Already two people in this thread have said they won't apply to as many schools as before because of this mess. It really sucks......

 

[VienneseWaltz]

FM--if you collect the letters from your refs, make sure your refs also sign across the flap of the envelope after it's sealed. They could also tape over their signature. This will verify to medical schools that the envelope was not opened after the writer sealed it.

You should check with a few med schools first, though. Some are picky about your handling the letters at all. I used the above method for my grad school applications (and just enclosed all the letters with my application), but med schools are very strict about some things.

Another possibility is to explain to your recommenders the situation, ask that they sign 20-25 copies and keep in a folder, and weekly (until you get all your secondaries done) send them batches of addressed and stamped envelopes to put in the mail themselves. That way, it minimizes their work after writing the letter.

 

[UCLAMAN]

For you guys that have no LOR service of anykind. Perhaps you can ask previous med skool applicants at your institution what they did to take care of their LORs? They will probably have some good advice for you that will make things easier on both you and whoever is writing your letters and is responsible for sending them off.

 

[meanderson]

UCLAMAN, I did ask several people from my undergrad what they did. Apparently they "solved" the problem by just applying to 3-4 schools.

 

[UCLAMAN]

Originally posted by meanderson
UCLAMAN, I did ask several people from my undergrad what they did. Apparently they "solved" the problem by just applying to 3-4 schools.

hrm....ok. do u guys have any premed advisors there? perhaps they have some ideas?

i don't think you guys should be limiting the number of schools you apply to because of this inconvenience. You guys definitely have a tougher time to get all your letters in order. However, if you don't apply to enough schools you may have an even tougher time reapplying. so unless some of you are 3.9ers 35+mcaters...I wouldn't recommend skimping on the number of schools you apply to.

Perhaps you should inform your LOR writers that you will most likely having them send quite a few copies of their letters to various schools. For each school make sure you provide the envelopes with labels and stamps or offer to take it to the post office yourself. Make it so that all the LOR writer needs to do is print out another copy of their letter, sign it, fold it and stuff it in the envelope, seal the envelope and sign the flap. This takes only a few minutes on the LOR writer's part. They can hand it to you and you can go to the post office yourself. More work? Yes. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

I second UCLAMAN's advice--do NOT limit the number of schools you apply to because of this. I think if you explain the situation to recommenders when you ask if they will write a letter for you, they will be quite willing to help out. The time-consuming part of recommending someone is writing the letter, not sending it, so I don't think it's a big deal to ask them to send 20 letters as long as YOU do everything you can to make it easier on them (e.g., adressed envelopes or labels, stamps, a schedule, etc.)

Also, at least some of your recommenders will have a departmental administrative assistant who is the one actually mailing the letters anyway. If you make friends with this person, explain the situation, and be as considerate of his or her time as possible, I don't see any reason to limit the number of schools you apply to.

 

[meanderson]

In many cases it is difficult to make daily(or even weekly) contact with lor's depending on location, schedules, etc. Also, keep in mind that all LOR writers are not professors. I know someone who shadowed a vascular surgeon in another city for 2 months. This is certainly a letter she is going to want to include in all her apps, and she is very fortunate that he took the time out of his busy schedule to write one for her and help her out. But I know for a fact that there is no way she is going to go up to him and say "ok, here is my situation....here is 20 envelopes, 5 go out now, 4 probably in another 3-4 weeks, who knows when the others go out...should I just give you a call each time I need another one sent out"? Yeah, I know he *could* have a separate drawer reserved to deal with this girl's quirky LOR requests, but that's not likely to happen. Whatever she does, her application will suffer relative to someone who does have an undergrad letter service.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

Originally posted by meanderson
In many cases it is difficult to make daily(or even weekly) contact with lor's depending on location, schedules, etc. Also, keep in mind that all LOR writers are not professors. I know someone who shadowed a vascular surgeon in another city for 2 months. This is certainly a letter she is going to want to include in all her apps, and she is very fortunate that he took the time out of his busy schedule to write one for her and help her out. But I know for a fact that there is no way she is going to go up to him and say "ok, here is my situation....here is 20 envelopes, 5 go out now, 4 probably in another 3-4 weeks, who knows when the others go out...should I just give you a call each time I need another one sent out"? Yeah, I know he *could* have a separate drawer reserved to deal with this girl's quirky LOR requests, but that's not likely to happen. Whatever she does, her application will suffer relative to someone who does have an undergrad letter service.

This would be a case where she might want to get 20 copies in 20 blank envelopes with a signature across the back flaps. The OP asked for suggestions. We have been providing them.

Everyone has obstacles in this process, and we each have to figure out how to best get around them.

One medical school said that students who lack a letter-collection service should get a senior professor to collect the letters and send them as one packet. So, this is another alternative: ask one of your professors whether he or she would be willing to keep your letters in his or her office. Weekly, you could drop off large addressed and stamped envelopes for this person to mail.

 

[meanderson]

But that brings up another problem- if the OP applies to 20 different schools, there may be 8 different variations of what is and is not considered acceptable as far as sending in LOR's. Yeah, one medical school I contacted said a member of the faculty could serve as the unofficial letter handler. Several other schools said the *only* acceptable solution was to have each letter writer send off the letter themselves to their medical school. Some schools will accept letters sent by the applicant if the letter was signed and sealed by the writer. A good # of schools won't accept that.

You would be surprised at the # of medical schools I contacted(about 40-50%) that said in the abscence of a university letter service the *only* thing they would accept is a letter from each writer to the school. Under these conditions, there are no solutions to propose. The applicant is either in a position where they can get strong letter writers to meet and respond to such demands or they aren't. They aren't any creative solutions to these schools.

These are all good suggestions, and in some cases can expand the # of schools a person could apply to, but they don't solve the problem completely.

 

[UCLAMAN]

Originally posted by VienneseWaltz
The OP asked for suggestions. We have been providing them.

Everyone has obstacles in this process, and we each have to figure out how to best get around them.

viennesewaltz is right. Come on guys. Life is full of obstacles.

I don't see how someone's application will suffer because of that situation. Theres a way around everything. Sometimes people just aren't willing to find their way around.

Life isn't fair, I'll agree. But one can sit there complaining about their situation or do something about it.

Personally, I'd rather sit there and figure out what I can do about it instead of complaining how I will most likely suffer from the obstacle.

If there isn't a creative solution to your problem then bite the bullet and give that long distance LOR a call everytime you need a letter. I don't really see this as a problem. A nuisance? Yes. A problem? No. Just because one cannot go up to that vascular surgeon in person doesn't mean all is lost. Whats wrong with a weekly phone call to the surgeon or their secretary? in fact...perhaps just tell the surgeon to give 30 copies of their letter to the secretary and just become friends with the secretary. Send the secretary 30 envelopes with 30 stamps and just call the secretary with an address everytime you need a new letter sent out. Have the surgeon stipulate in the letter that he is having the secretary sign the back of the flap to ensure confidentiality since he or she is so busy to sign each individual letter he needs to send to different schools. whats the problem here? If this doesn't work work something else out.

The glass is half full guys!

Now you can keep making excuses about how difficult it is so you won't have to deal with the nuisances of not having a LOR service...blah, blah, blah...everyone has had struggles as viennesewaltz has said. Learn to deal.

Good luck!!! 🙂

 

[meanderson]

>>If there isn't a creative solution to your problem then bite the >>bullet and give that long distance LOR a call everytime you >>need a letter. I don't really see this as a problem. A nuisance? >>Yes. A problem? No. Just because one cannot go up to that >>vascular surgeon in person doesn't mean all is lost.

The problem with this analysis is that you could apply such reasoning to any situation. If there isn't a creative solution to scoring 41 on the mcat then bite the bullet and study 12 hours a day for 8 months. Find every single test by every single test prep company ever produced and do them all. I don't really see this as a problem. A nuisance? Yes.

Sorry if that example was over the top. Maybe others do have the ability to convince that vascular surgeon and/or his staff to mail out 20 separate letters......but my friend doesn't. The OP was looking for a solution to her problem. She already knew she could "bite the bullet" and do the above.

 

[UCLAMAN]

Originally posted by meanderson
>>If there isn't a creative solution to your problem then bite the >>bullet and give that long distance LOR a call everytime you >>need a letter. I don't really see this as a problem. A nuisance? >>Yes. A problem? No. Just because one cannot go up to that >>vascular surgeon in person doesn't mean all is lost.

The problem with this analysis is that you could apply such reasoning to any situation. If there isn't a creative solution to scoring 41 on the mcat then bite the bullet and study 12 hours a day for 8 months. Find every single test by every single test prep company ever produced and do them all. I don't really see this as a problem. A nuisance? Yes.

Sorry if that example was over the top. Maybe others do have the ability to convince that vascular surgeon and/or his staff to mail out 20 separate letters......but my friend doesn't. The OP was looking for a solution to her problem. She already knew she could "bite the bullet" and do the above.

My friend studied 10 hours a day for 4 months and got a 40.

Hey...if all fails then just give up. I'm not gonna argue with you. I made suggestions. You don't like them...don't take them.

Do what works for you bro. Obey your thirst.

Err....I guess your friend should do what works for her. Obey her thirst. 😀

Good luck!

 

[standoc]

Hey guys,

NOt sure if this has been addressed yet, but to the OP:

I used www.interfolio.com during this application year and everythign went smoothly. Not a single letter was lost, things got mailed out rgiht away. All you need to do is tell your recommender to send the letter to the interfolio address, and they act like a school letter service, sending as many copies anywhere you want. All in all its not really expensive at all..maybe spent a few hundred, but I applied to a 28 schools, sending each school about 6 recs. That is a lot of paperwork, and interfolio didn't mess it up, so props to them. Some of the stuff I sent express, so it costs more, but its definitly a good deal

Standoc

 

[meanderson]

standoc I pm'ed you