Post-bacc admission despite weak recommendations and no volunteer experience?

[MBAtoMD]

Apologies in advance for portions of my description that are cryptic - I'm really trying to maintain anonymity

I'm really hoping to get into Goucher, Bryn Mawr, or Scripps, and I think I have some characteristics that would help my chances of admission - but there's a couple of key weaknesses I'm worried about.

Strengths

• 3.95 GPA at top-10 school (according to US News). Decently quantitative major (econ), and have taken 5 calculus courses
• 99th percentile on GMAT (very similar test to GRE)
• MBA from one of the 2 programs tied for the #1 spot in US News' rankings (i.e. Harvard / Stanford)
• 2 years experience (often managerial experience) at semi-prestigious management consulting firm
• Consulting experience has primarily been with Fortune 50 health insurance carriers (hence providing me with healthcare exposure)

Weaknesses

• No medical-related (and little non-medical-related) volunteer experience...and given the hours I work (60-80 hours/week), I won't have time to gain that experience before application time
• Weak recommendations - I didn't establish close relationships with too many undergrad professors. I did with some MBA professors and co-workers (and hence could leverage them for med school recommendations), but I can't really use them until I'm 100% sure I'm leaving the business field. Hence I'd be stuck using less-than-stellar recommendations for post-bacc applications
• MBA grades averaging around 3.3 (though those familiar with MBA programs are aware that MBA grades are truly meaningless, with usually 50+% of grades being based on participation, and 70% of the class getting a B)

I would really, really appreciate any insight from those familiar with the process as to how well-positioned I am. Obviously I plan on gaining volunteer experience before med school applications, but I'm concerned that my lack of it may hurt me for post bacc admissions.

Thanks again!

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[DrMidlife]

The brand name postbacs only admit students that are going to keep their stats high - they're not going to take a risk on somebody who will have any problem getting into med school.

3.95 from a top 10 school says you're not a risk.

Put a plan in place to address your volunteering & LOR situation on your own reasonable schedule, and get it done without fretting about what Bryn Mawr or Goucher think - focus on what med schools will think. In the short term, be opportunistic - look for community volunteering like working on a Race for the Cure or anything that is ad hoc. Contact ramusa.org (or similar) and see what you can do for 4 hours on a Saturday to help them get ready for an upcoming event.

Since you're coming from a name school, the attraction to Bryn Mawr & Goucher is understandable, but a name school for prereqs is extreme overkill, imho. You're a grownup and you don't need that much handholding. Seriously think about other ways to get your prereqs done more cheaply and with less premature hoop-jumping. It won't take any longer, and seriously, you won't lose any opportunities.

Best of luck to you.

 

[NewmansOwn]

Since you're coming from a name school, the attraction to Bryn Mawr & Goucher is understandable, but a name school for prereqs is extreme overkill, imho. You're a grownup and you don't need that much handholding. Seriously think about other ways to get your prereqs done more cheaply and with less premature hoop-jumping. It won't take any longer, and seriously, you won't lose any opportunities.

People who didn't attend these programs (ie - people who have no idea what they're talking about) always enjoy saying things like this, though they are usually less overtly insulting.

Students don't attend top formal programs to have their hands held. They attend because they understand the value of a postbac dean who has extraordinary connections to medical school deans, because they appreciate the time and money-saving realities of linkage agreements, or because they recognize a 100% medical school acceptance rate is hard to beat.

The classes at top programs are just as difficult as they are anywhere else; even "grownups" find them challenging. If you do poorly in the program, you're done -- plain and simple. It's just that no one ever does poorly because the caliber of students in the programs and the quality of the instruction is so high.

OP, go for it and apply to the top programs. You'll have a decent shot and, if you're admitted, you'll have as close to a guarantee of medical school admission as is possible to get. In your clandestine situation, I would imagine you'd prize certainty of a successful career change.

 

[csc123]

Are you serious? Cheap? This individual clearly has bank - especially coming from out of HBS or Stanford. Along with a top econ degree and working at a semi-prestigious firm (maybe McKinsey or Bain, or those elite companies). The intellectual aptitude and resourcefulness is there, along with amazing networking skills, any program is a shoe in for you. I also understand his or her trepidation on leveraging the business connections, but as long as you have a 'compelling/legit' reason (which I'm sure you do as you will be leaving behind wall street type money/aura)

To the OP, apply, do your volunteering, research, etc. And you'll get into top medical school programs with your stats (granted you pull the same grades and scores on the MCAT), you undoubtedly deserve a spot.

It's just a numbers game for admissions, regardless of what they say.

 

[DrMidlife]

Students don't attend top formal programs to have their hands held. They attend because they understand the value of a postbac dean who has extraordinary connections to medical school deans, because they appreciate the time and money-saving realities of linkage agreements, or because they recognize a 100% medical school acceptance rate is hard to beat.

Value noted. I would argue that a connected dean, a linkage and an effective guarantee are a path into a great med school. Not the path. There are other ways to get the same job done.

 

[cetac]

Note: many people from the financial/business sector applied to post-baccs last year and were rejected en masse, as the program directors could clearly see that it was a function of the economy and not actual interest in medicine. I am in no way saying this is applicable to you, but with no volunteer experience and, more importantly, no medical volunteer experience, even a flawless GPA will not act to prevent alarms from being set off in the heads of the program directors. The few people in my current class that came from the finance/business sector had copious amounts of medical volunteer experience.

A question you will most definitely be asked at your interview: why is it that you think medicine is the right field for you when you have had no exposure to the field?

Working with a Fortune 50 health insurance carrier doesn't count as exposure to medicine. It counts as exposure to a Fortune 50 health insurance carrier.

Finally, you're going to need those recs from business school. If you're not willing to ask them for recs because you're afraid of them knowing, and spreading your interest in medicine as opposed to business, then you really shouldn't be thinking of a formal post-bacc program because, as you've said, you're not completely sure that you want to do this. It has already been said in this thread that the post-bacc programs do love good numbers, because med schools love good numbers, but the number post-baccs love most is the number of people that successfully complete medical school. This number is, then, reflected in the number of individuals that are accepted from the program. A medical school won't keep accepting students from a program if those students aren't completing medical school.

My advice is to take some time, perhaps another year, and build up experience volunteering in a healthcare environment to make sure this is what you want to do. Spending $40,000 on something you're uncertain about is probably not the brightest idea.

 

[NewmansOwn]

Value noted. I would argue that a connected dean, a linkage and an effective guarantee are a path into a great med school. Not the path. There are other ways to get the same job done.

Fair enough -- truly good students find their way into medical school no matter what path they follow. And a formal postbac certainly isn't for everyone. I just didn't think it was fair to say the OP would be missing no opportunities.

 

[gis2011]

Most post-bacs want to have their students accepted to medical school, even more so than they want students with high numbers...they like (and need) to be able to say that a high percentage of their class gets into medical school. Without medically related experience nor volunteer experience, and weak recommendations, the chances of you getting into medical school are slim regardless of your (impressive) numbers...med schools aren't really hurting for people with good numbers, they want people who are the "whole package". That said, sure maybe a post-bac would accept you especially given your numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't given that ultimately, you wouldn't be a good medical school candidate...maybe if you could get some of that medical experience/volunteering stuff out of the way...i'm sure it'd make the post-bac (and medical schools) want to take you more.

 

[MBAtoMD]

Thanks to all for your responses so far. To address a few of the points brought up:

• I certainly see the value of big-name post-bac programs, so they're my main choice. That being said, post-MBA jobs pay well, but a lot of that goes towards paying off MBA loans, so cost is still a consideration. Part of me is considering just completing the requirements at a local state school, in hopes that my other "name brand" experience will make up for a lack of a "name brand" post bac (though obviously there's non-name-related benefits to top post-bacs)
• To clarify -- when applying to med school, I plan on having had volunteer experience (gained during my post-bac). Likewise, I will not have weak recommendations during med school applications - I'll have b-school professors and co-workers at my current job (not to mention post-bac professors and people I worked with while volunteering). It's just during my post-bac applications that I'll have little volunteering experience and weak recs, for the reasons outlined
• Cetac - fair point about the secrecy. That being said, the secrecy is more about wanting to keep my job between now and starting the post-bac program in June, as well as a hedge in case I end up deciding to wait until 2011 to begin my post-bac (for financial reasons). And my switch is not driven by the economy - I have a lot of job security and am actually on track to be promoted ahead of schedule. But I could definitely see that question being raised in IVs, so thank you for pointing it out

 

[Freudster]

Just to shed some light on the matter...

I was in a very similar situation, and got into a top 10 program after doing a postbac.

Contrary to what others have suggested, it is key that you go to a top, name brand postbac program.

Why?

Very simply: Letters of recommendation.

A good postbac program essentially guarantees you letters of recommendation, whereas if you did the courses independently or cheaply you would find it difficult to secure the letters of recommendations that will get you into a top medical school.

Despite your strong business connections... Believe me, medical school admissions committees do not want 3 letters of rec from business people... maybe one, two max... but you need letters of rec from physicians, scientists, professors, volunteering good-doers etc.

You will without doubt get into a med school without this, but perhaps not a top ten med school.

Best of luck to you!