Post bacc or second bachelors

[lexbex]

Hello everyone!


I was hoping to get some solid advice. I am a 25 y.o. Female from NY.


I recently decided to grow a pair and start a track to Vet school. Problem is, I have a BBA in Marketing with a Cum Gpa 2.96.

I was considering doing a Post bacc program and KILLING IT, getting something like a 3.8 (i know this is difficult but i would be doing nothing besides this)


Or Im considering doing another bachelors degree in a science related field and getting a fantastic GPA. I dont know which to pursue, as I know that vet school has on average 3 GPAs they look at, and was hoping to get some advice. I know getting another Bach wont increase my GPA, but maybe showing that i went back to school again to make sure i had a better chance, now that im "older and wiser" would reflect positively.

I have worked as an ER assistant at an emergency/specialty animal hospital, and could get some good recommendations from doctors there, as well as from my vet and 3 other doctors from there, as well as the owner of the clinic who went to cornell.

I need a lot of experience which im totally fine getting, but the GPA is what im most concerned with.

PLEASE HELP ME im going crazy over here!!

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[ziggyandjazzy]

Have you taken the pre-req courses? You will need to do that to be able to apply.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

I am not sure what you mean about another bacc not raising your GPA - it certainly should if your grades are good.
Plus, numerous schools look at your last 45 and science GPA over your cum. GPA (obviously not the case for every school)

If you are able to complete your prereqs with a post-bac program I would go with that solely because it is more likely to be cheaper (and sometimes paid) and will provide better job opportunities while you are working towards DVM.
But, they are competitive too and honestly if your GPA is under 3.0 right now it might be difficult to get into one.

 

[smallowls]

There is some confusion in that many people think that post-bacc is a structured program. Some schools offer that, but in most cases a post-bacc student takes whatever undergrad classes they need and you may end up obtaining a second Bachelor's in the process but you do not have to. I went back to school as an Animal Sciences post-bacc student and worked on getting a good last 45 gpa, raising my cumulative gpa, and finishing up the pre-requisites. Any additional classes you do well in will raise your cumulative gpa. It doesn't matter if you are at a different school and had years in between undergrad and post-bacc.

 

[lexbex]

There is some confusion in that many people think that post-bacc is a structured program. Some schools offer that, but in most cases a post-bacc student takes whatever undergrad classes they need and you may end up obtaining a second Bachelor's in the process but you do not have to. I went back to school as an Animal Sciences post-bacc student and worked on getting a good last 45 gpa, raising my cumulative gpa, and finishing up the pre-requisites. Any additional classes you do well in will raise your cumulative gpa. It doesn't matter if you are at a different school and had years in between undergrad and post-bacc.

Well, the thing is i guess im unclear about how a post bacc program would help my GPA. if its so low, and they're typically only 48 credits (i did get into one but decided not to go because I wasn't sure if it was the best route) i wonder how 48 credits will raise my GPA to a competitive state.

On the contrary, if i go for a second bachelors in bio or a science, i will be able to retake those general classes that are bringing my GPA down, as well as take the prerequisites, and another 128 credits would help the GPA increase more, do you know what i mean?

the last 45 and the pre req cumulative will certainly be better after i take them, but that overall i worry will immediately exclude me from the process...

So im leaning more towards getting another degree, and adding a lot of credits to that equation that will boost that up to a 3.4, 3.5.


I have not taken the prerequisites, thats why im thinking about which route to go so heavily.

 

[lexbex]

There is some confusion in that many people think that post-bacc is a structured program. Some schools offer that, but in most cases a post-bacc student takes whatever undergrad classes they need and you may end up obtaining a second Bachelor's in the process but you do not have to. I went back to school as an Animal Sciences post-bacc student and worked on getting a good last 45 gpa, raising my cumulative gpa, and finishing up the pre-requisites. Any additional classes you do well in will raise your cumulative gpa. It doesn't matter if you are at a different school and had years in between undergrad and post-bacc.

Oh, so if i wanted to re take and english course i could? I just worry because some business classes are the ones that are bringing my GPA down, and a math course. So i wouldn't be able to retake all of them.

 

[that redhead]

Personally, I'd probably go back and take the prereqs a la carte or something of a "DIY Post Bac" - why spend all the time and money doing a second Bachelors? I think if you can ace all the prereqs, that should really help your story and show that you're a matured student. Build that last 45 and apply accordingly.

 

[lexbex]

Personally, I'd probably go back and take the prereqs a la carte or something of a "DIY Post Bac" - why spend all the time and money doing a second Bachelors? I think if you can ace all the prereqs, that should really help your story and show that you're a matured student. Build that last 45 and apply accordingly.

But in terms of the overall GPA that wouldn't help much... You think they dont look at the overall as much as ur last 45 and pre req?


Also thanks everyone for replying to me, im so appreciative as advisors at the various schools ive talked to just dont have much advice to give me based on anything substantial.

 

[thelemonzest]

I would just focus on the pre-requisites you need, and take as many as you need to have a solid last 45 and science GPA. I took all of my science classes outside a formal classroom, years after I got my undergrad in an unrelated field (albeit with a solid GPA), and it's just such a long haul I just wouldn't want to do that to myself, taking classes that I don't really need.

If there's a reasonably priced post-bacc program near you, that could be helpful, but also totally doable and likely more flexible to do it a-la-carte.

 

[that redhead]

But in terms of the overall GPA that wouldn't help much... You think they dont look at the overall as much as ur last 45 and pre req?

With one Bachelors under your belt, there is no cost/time effective way to COMPLETELY overhaul your GPA. What's done is done. What CAN be done is to take the prereqs and maybe a couple upper level sciences and say to vet schools, "Hey, yeah, my GPA is weak but look how great at studying I am now. Look how dedicated and hard working I am and how well I can master this material. Yeah, I goofed in undergrad but it's been some time since I was that college kid and I'm ready now" Some vet schools will auto screen out a lower GPA. Other schools will look favorably on a strong last 45/prereq/science GPA - like I said, applying intelligently is important.

 

[lexbex]

This

I would just focus on the pre-requisites you need, and take as many as you need to have a solid last 45 and science GPA. I took all of my science classes outside a formal classroom, years after I got my undergrad in an unrelated field (albeit with a solid GPA), and it's just such a long haul I just wouldn't want to do that to myself, taking classes that I don't really need.

If there's a reasonably priced post-bacc program near you, that could be helpful, but also totally doable and likely more flexible to do it a-la-carte.

This is some good advice. thanks!

 

[lexbex]

With one Bachelors under your belt, there is no cost/time effective way to COMPLETELY overhaul your GPA. What's done is done. What CAN be done is to take the prereqs and maybe a couple upper level sciences and say to vet schools, "Hey, yeah, my GPA is weak but look how great at studying I am now. Look how dedicated and hard working I am and how well I can master this material. Yeah, I goofed in undergrad but it's been some time since I was that college kid and I'm ready now" Some vet schools will auto screen out a lower GPA. Other schools will look favorably on a strong last 45/prereq/science GPA - like I said, applying intelligently is important.

Yes, that is definitely true. I was lost in college, and scared and not confident in my abilities, and i just wanted to pass and get a job. Things are different now, i actually want to follow my passion and be the best version of myself possible. For the overall Cum. do they take generally the average of every class taken, or just the average of your undergraduate degree? If they take post bacc classes into consideration, then i should be able to avoid being shut down immediately because of my undergrad. I know I can come in hot with a stellar last 45/GRE/prereq, i was just worried about being shot down immediately with no chance. Yes, ive read so much on here about the schools that emphasize other things on your application. Do you suggest a more concise informational place here to read about these things? Thanks so much for your great advice.

 

[Jess Monster]

Were I in your shoes, I would be more attracted to do the bachelor’s in a science related discipline. It may be more time and money but it has a greater potential to help your GPA and gives you time to work on vet experience and other non-academics. Plus, if you already have coursework that fulfills the “general education” requirements, you may be able to finish a new BS/BA in 2 to 2.5 years.

Also, if you don’t get into vet school or decide it’s no longer something you want in the future, at least you’ll have another degree that will help you find a job, prepare you for graduate work, etc. So if that’s the route you choose, do so wisely with more than just vet school in mind.

 

[that redhead]

For the overall Cum. do they take generally the average of every class taken, or just the average of your undergraduate degree? If they take post bacc classes into consideration, then i should be able to avoid being shut down immediately because of my undergrad.

Yes, all classes. So if you can rock the classes, it will help your cumulative.

Do you suggest a more concise informational place here to read about these things? Thanks so much for your great advice.

I would just use the search function at the top right corner to find pertinent threads; it's a lot to wade through but worth it. You're welcome and good luck

 

[flameshock]

I want to add that if you already have a degree then you may only need to do the science courses pre-req for a new degree. For me, it took maybe two or three classes beyond my vet school pre-reqs to get a B S.

Also, depending on your circumstances, it may even be better to be degree seeking. For me, seeking a degree gave me priority to register for classes (since I had another degeees worth) where as the post-bacc would have put me at the bottom of the registration heap.

Also, being degree seeking opened me up to financial aid from the state that I wouldn't have had access to otherwise. Just some things to consider.

 

[lexbex]

Were I in your shoes, I would be more attracted to do the bachelor’s in a science related discipline. It may be more time and money but it has a greater potential to help your GPA and gives you time to work on vet experience and other non-academics. Plus, if you already have coursework that fulfills the “general education” requirements, you may be able to finish a new BS/BA in 2 to 2.5 years.

Also, if you don’t get into vet school or decide it’s no longer something you want in the future, at least you’ll have another degree that will help you find a job, prepare you for graduate work, etc. So if that’s the route you choose, do so wisely with more than just vet school in mind.

This is exactly what i was thinking! thanks so much.

 

[lexbex]

Yes, all classes. So if you can rock the classes, it will help your cumulative.


I would just use the search function at the top right corner to find pertinent threads; it's a lot to wade through but worth it. You're welcome and good luck

Thank you SO much!!

 

[lexbex]

I want to add that if you already have a degree then you may only need to do the science courses pre-req for a new degree. For me, it took maybe two or three classes beyond my vet school pre-reqs to get a B S.

Also, depending on your circumstances, it may even be better to be degree seeking. For me, seeking a degree gave me priority to register for classes (since I had another degeees worth) where as the post-bacc would have put me at the bottom of the registration heap.

Also, being degree seeking opened me up to financial aid from the state that I wouldn't have had access to otherwise. Just some things to consider.

Yes, another reason i was thinking this might be a slightly better route for me! You all are helping me so much, thank you so much.

 

[lexbex]

Could I also ask you guys another question? Due to the fact that i dont have the funds to go to a better school for this decision, how do you feel about the weight of the school where your degree came from? Farmingdale state college for example is where im considering going, but it is just a normal SUNY school. Do you think this would negatively impact me? Thanks again

 

[love2hunt]

Several other considerations (and rephrasing of a couple other comments):

1) Different schools weight GPA differently. Some schools really emphasize overall GPA, some emphasize last 45 or pre-req GPA. It would help you to choose a school that focuses on the latter two.

2) I'm going to go on the assumption that your IS (Cornell) is not your best option because they emphasize academic stats. Assuming that, you're looking for OOS schools, which will be more expensive. With that being the case, I would advise NOT doing a full bachelor's again because then you are paying for another BS degree PLUS an expensive OOS DVM.

3) If I was in your shoes, I'd find the cheapest school that likes last 45 and pre-req GPA's and doesn't care about where your pre-reqs were taken. I'd then begin taking classes geared for that school the cheapest way possible (community college and possibly online) and getting whatever experiences they prefer. That's not the only way to do things, but that would be my strategy.

 

[smallowls]

I will second that you should look for veterinary schools that take a holistic approach to evaluating the applicant. Don't waste your money on applying to schools that do not look at your experiences or academic effort if your c-gpa doesn't rank in their top x% of applicants. There are plenty of other great schools. It is really hard to raise your cumulative gpa when you have four years of coursework that you are building off of and you can't completely bury it under post-bacc grades. It is much more effective to get a great last 45 gpa and many schools will recognize that effort you put into establishing a new positive academic trend. Just don't beat yourself up over your past. I learned that the hard way and it took me years to have the confidence to apply, but I got in and my undergrad gpa was lower than yours.

 

[lexbex]

I will second that you should look for veterinary schools that take a holistic approach to evaluating the applicant. Don't waste your money on applying to schools that do not look at your experiences or academic effort if you don't meet their minimum cumulative gpa. There are plenty of other great schools. It is really hard to raise your cumulative gpa when you have four years of coursework that you are building off of and you can't completely bury it under post-bacc grades. It is much more effective to get a great last 45 gpa and many schools will recognize that effort you put into establishing a new positive academic trend. Just don't beat yourself up over your past. I learned that the hard way and it took me years to have the confidence to apply, but I got in and my undergrad gpa was lower than yours.

Thats reassuring to hear that you got in despite being in the same boat i am. Im leaning more towards another bachelors from SUNY Farmingdale, at least then I could have a back up plan if this fails. Im trying to find some sort of place to read about schools that take a more holistic approach, from what im getting... Mississippi, minnesota, Virginia, and CSU are what im looking at. But i definitely could be wrong, i cant really find the forums that people talk about this kind of stuff. If you know of one, definitely let me know if you dont mind! Thanks so much for your reply

 

[britzen]

But in terms of the overall GPA that wouldn't help much... You think they dont look at the overall as much as ur last 45 and pre req?

Different schools look at different things... Some look at three scores: cumulative gpa, last 45 gpa, and science gpa. Some only look at last 45 and/or science gpa and ignore the cumulative gpa altogehter. You may want to think about applying to schools that simply ignore cumulative gpa and focus on the other categories instead as it will make you a more competitive applicant. (
There have been some threads on this already listing which schools do so... somebody want to help a lazy girl out and post some links?)

Depending on the school there are also different minimum gpa cut-offs to even get your application looked at. I think 3.0 is pretty common for many schools, a few have cut-offs lower than that (2.0 for Virginia Tech, for example). Some are higher - out of state students have to have a minimum 3.4 gpa for North Carolina, if I'm not mistaken. It would be worth your time to go through the list of every veterinary school and see what the gpa cut-offs are and target your studies accordingly.

Some schools also allow you to petition to have old grades excluded - I think I've seen grades older than 7 years and older than 10 years at different schools listed as excludable. The catch there is that it will wipe everything you've done previously, so you'd have to take things like English, Humanities/Social Science distributional courses again. My understanding is also that you have to petition the admissions departments at the relevant schools to get a waiver for this to happen.

 

[britzen]

3) If I was in your shoes, I'd find the cheapest school that likes last 45 and pre-req GPA's and doesn't care about where your pre-reqs were taken. I'd then begin taking classes geared for that school the cheapest way possible (community college and possibly online) and getting whatever experiences they prefer. That's not the only way to do things, but that would be my strategy.

Highlighting this because it is the same that I would do if I were lexbex, so that's two votes for this plan!

I am doing a post-baccalaureate certificate now for Biology and wish I had started at a community college for some of the basic stuff (like physics and general chemistry) and then transferred it into the post-bacc program I am doing at a university (you can't take things outside of the university for credit once you're in the program for mine... I imagine that's true at many universities.)

I will also say that you can start out by doing a post-bacc at many places and then change it to a bachelor's instead if you decide to later on. This is what I am considering doing now - if I get into vet school this year I will finish the last credit I need (yes, just one measly singular credit) over the summer and leave with a certificate in biology. If I don't get in, I will consider petitioning to change my status in the fall to complete a BS instead because it would only take about semester's worth of credits to finish one. I could finish either a BS in biology or a BS in biochemistry about equally as easily, I would just need to think a bit about which would be more useful to me for future career prospects if becoming a veterinarian doesn't work out.

Which brings me to another point.... if you did a second bachelors you wouldn't actually do another 120+ credits, you'd probably do something like 40-60 because the school would count everything in your previous bachelor's as distributional/core requirements and you'd probably only need to take the classes for your new major.

In that vein, you'd really struggle to get your gpa up much even with a 2nd bachelors. You can mess around with gpa calculators like this one: Learn how to improve GPA to see what you would need to do to raise your gpa to a certain level. For example, assuming you have 128 credits already, if you really wanted to get yourself up to a cumulative 3.5 gpa, you'd have to maintain a 3.8 for 225 credits! That is a LOT of classes.

So unless you are also setting yourself up for a back-up plan, it's probably not worth doing anything beyond the pre-reqs + enough higher level bio classes in order to get yourself to 45 credits. And, even if you decide to do a second bachelor's, I'd suggest going on to a Master's program to build up your gpa more if desired instead of just racking up undergrad credits. (Specifically a BS and MS in fields that you would want to work in anyway if the DVM thing doesn't work out, not just degrees for the sake of gpa fodder.)

 

[britzen]

For the overall Cum. do they take generally the average of every class taken, or just the average of your undergraduate degree? If they take post bacc classes into consideration, then i should be able to avoid being shut down immediately because of my undergrad.

I applied this year and my post-bacc classes were counted into my undergraduate gpa.

There is some weirdness in which grade year they counted my stuff into based on what type of class it was as VMCAS (the vet school application system) breaks down all kinds of gpa statistics for schools including your freshman, sophomore, and junior year grades... I think that's for schools to theoretically be able to see trends in your gpa progression, but it ended up really funky for more because of the post-bacc stuff. I don't think anybody looks at those anyway for admission consideration.

(Also, sorry for the multiple slightly out of time posts... This thread loaded weird on my computer and I missed a bunch of people's replies who said basically the same stuff as me!)

 

[britzen]

Could I also ask you guys another question? Due to the fact that i dont have the funds to go to a better school for this decision, how do you feel about the weight of the school where your degree came from? Farmingdale state college for example is where im considering going, but it is just a normal SUNY school. Do you think this would negatively impact me? Thanks again

I don't think this matters. Some schools list where there incoming class came from and a lot of them are just regular state schools (Here's the profile of VMCVM's class of 2020, page 3-4 has student's previous schools: http://www.vetmed.vt.edu/academics/dvm/docs/stats.pdf).

I don't think it would help you overly much, if at all, to go to a "better" school, and I definitely don't think it would hurt your application in any way.

 

[lexbex]

Different schools look at different things... Some look at three scores: cumulative gpa, last 45 gpa, and science gpa. Some only look at last 45 and/or science gpa and ignore the cumulative gpa altogehter. You may want to think about applying to schools that simply ignore cumulative gpa and focus on the other categories instead as it will make you a more competitive applicant. (
There have been some threads on this already listing which schools do so... somebody want to help a lazy girl out and post some links?)

Depending on the school there are also different minimum gpa cut-offs to even get your application looked at. I think 3.0 is pretty common for many schools, a few have cut-offs lower than that (2.0 for Virginia Tech, for example). Some are higher - out of state students have to have a minimum 3.4 gpa for North Carolina, if I'm not mistaken. It would be worth your time to go through the list of every veterinary school and see what the gpa cut-offs are and target your studies accordingly.

Some schools also allow you to petition to have old grades excluded - I think I've seen grades older than 7 years and older than 10 years at different schools listed as excludable. The catch there is that it will wipe everything you've done previously, so you'd have to take things like English, Humanities/Social Science distributional courses again. My understanding is also that you have to petition the admissions departments at the relevant schools to get a waiver for this to happen.

This is great advice, thank you so much

 

[lexbex]

I applied this year and my post-bacc classes were counted into my undergraduate gpa.

There is some weirdness in which grade year they counted my stuff into based on what type of class it was as VMCAS (the vet school application system) breaks down all kinds of gpa statistics for schools including your freshman, sophomore, and junior year grades... I think that's for schools to theoretically be able to see trends in your gpa progression, but it ended up really funky for more because of the post-bacc stuff. I don't think anybody looks at those anyway for admission consideration.

(Also, sorry for the multiple slightly out of time posts... This thread loaded weird on my computer and I missed a bunch of people's replies who said basically the same stuff as me!)

No worries at all. YES THIS calculator is life. Wow, im in bad shape.

To raise my GPA to a 3.20 I would have to maintain a 3.6 and it would take about 76 more credits.
To raise it to a 3.16 I would have to maintain a 3.6 and it would take about 58 more credits.

Like many have said, whats done is done. last 45 and pre req gpa can be a saving grace. This is so discouraging to think about.

Also, on the community college note... So general things like physics and what not, you can take at a community college you said... Now, in terms of those being able to be used as a prerequisite for vet school. Do most schools accept community college courses? I did see that some people that got into vet school went to a community college, at least their colleges were listed on the class stats.

 

[love2hunt]

No worries at all. YES THIS calculator is life. Wow, im in bad shape.

To raise my GPA to a 3.20 I would have to maintain a 3.6 and it would take about 76 more credits.
To raise it to a 3.16 I would have to maintain a 3.6 and it would take about 58 more credits.

Like many have said, whats done is done. last 45 and pre req gpa can be a saving grace. This is so discouraging to think about.

Also, on the community college note... So general things like physics and what not, you can take at a community college you said... Now, in terms of those being able to be used as a prerequisite for vet school. Do most schools accept community college courses? I did see that some people that got into vet school went to a community college, at least their colleges were listed on the class stats.

Depends on the school and the class. Some schools want all your classes taken at a 4 year university, some only care about that for upper level classes, and some don’t care at all. Best course of action is to always check with the school directly on stuff like that if it isn’t stated explicitly on their admissions website.

 

[lexbex]

So unless you are also setting yourself up for a back-up plan, it's probably not worth doing anything beyond the pre-reqs + enough higher level bio classes in order to get yourself to 45 credits. And, even if you decide to do a second bachelor's, I'd suggest going on to a Master's program to build up your gpa more if desired instead of just racking up undergrad credits. (Specifically a BS and MS in fields that you would want to work in anyway if the DVM thing doesn't work out, not just degrees for the sake of gpa fodder.)[/QUOTE]

Depends on the school and the class. Some schools want all your classes taken at a 4 year university, some only care about that for upper level classes, and some don’t care at all. Best course of action is to always check with the school directly on stuff like that if it isn’t stated explicitly on their admissions website.

Thank you, I will do that.