post-bacc program vs doing it on your own

[jayashae]

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I'm a little confused on what a post-bacc "program" means.

A little background about myself. I will graduate with a 2.98-2.99 cGPA and a 3.1ish sGPA. I'm out of luck when it comes to applying to MD but I want to make myself more competitive for DO schools. So my plan was to work as a research tech and take classes (using employee benefits of course, most allow 2 courses per semester) to show adcom that I can further handle science load. This fall semester I took 5 science courses and 1 non, and received a 3.75 and in the final spring semester I only have Biochemistry left but I still plan on taking 6 classes and scoring better than 3.75, so I think I have an upward trend going here. But this is, after all, only 1 year to prove myself, so this is why I want to do more research and take more science classes to further prove that I've changed my procrastinating ways.

So my question begins with, is there a difference between taking a "post-bacc" program, versus doing it on my own? Are there some sort of prestige associated with getting into a post-bacc program? Because in my situation, I don't think it makes sense to pay that much more.


any feedback is greatly appreciated. I plan on taking the MCAT and am currently averaging around 29-31.

 

[WorldChanger36]

I'm a little confused on what a post-bacc "program" means.

A little background about myself. I will graduate with a 2.98-2.99 cGPA and a 3.1ish sGPA. I'm out of luck when it comes to applying to MD but I want to make myself more competitive for DO schools. So my plan was to work as a research tech and take classes (using employee benefits of course, most allow 2 courses per semester) to show adcom that I can further handle science load. This fall semester I took 5 science courses and 1 non, and received a 3.75 and in the final spring semester I only have Biochemistry left but I still plan on taking 6 classes and scoring better than 3.75, so I think I have an upward trend going here. But this is, after all, only 1 year to prove myself, so this is why I want to do more research and take more science classes to further prove that I've changed my procrastinating ways.

So my question begins with, is there a difference between taking a "post-bacc" program, versus doing it on my own? Are there some sort of prestige associated with getting into a post-bacc program? Because in my situation, I don't think it makes sense to pay that much more.


any feedback is greatly appreciated. I plan on taking the MCAT and am currently averaging around 29-31.

1) The general term post bacc has many meanings for the most part post bacc refers to returning to undergrad to take courses to improve grades or take pre-med or pre-dent pre reqs. Post baccalaureate programs can also be masters degrees and graduate certs that improve your application without granting a degree that has a value in itself but on here when people say post bacc they mean undergraduate work. Most people on here call special masters programs... grad school. Now in the stickies Drmidlife did an awesome job of putting these things into different categories. Feel free to head up there and have a good look.

2) Why do you think you have no shot at MD? Because your gpa isn't perfect and you have been hanging out in the preallo forum? Check out the low gpa thread and you will find a ton of people that have it way worse and totally got into MD schools. You are still in the game. Now don't get me wrong DO is a good option ( although some schools are kind of crazy so make sure you study the schools well) and can broaden your app with will increase your chances at getting in.

3) You look like a possible SMP candidate. If you can hit a plus 30 MCAT you will be a great SMP applicant. I like your plan to continue to work and take a classes or two but make sure you focus on MCAT. Make that 30 plus happen then apply to SMPs in November. CHeck out the different programs offered up in the stickies and remember not all SMPs are created equal. The ones with linkage and high acceptance to med school rates are best but the most competitive.

4) Forget prestige. You missed that boat.
5) If you want a good shot at DO you need to shadow and work with DOs. You will also need a DO letter of recommendation. If you want to retake any class that you got less then a B- in. DO honor grad forgiveness to boost your gpa but they will bring up bad grades during the interviews and will want to know your plans to prevent them from happening again.

6) If you want to do undergrad post bacc then do it cheap and make sure you get As.

 

[jayashae]

Thank you very much for your input!

I have indeed looked into SMPs, but I heard most SMPs won't even look at me if I don't break a 3.0 cGPA (cutoff for review). I know my priority right now is to finish my last semester with a realistic 4.0, then I can focus on making the last push for the MCAT this summer.

I also looked into the Drexel IMS program, how does this rank among the SMP programs? I don't know if my previous lab work with Drexel PIs and the now Dean of A&S will have any impact on my application there, but it can't hurt. I also live in Philadelphia so best case scenario I would live at home during the SMP year.


thanks again

 

[RubicStorm]

Thank you very much for your input!

I have indeed looked into SMPs, but I heard most SMPs won't even look at me if I don't break a 3.0 cGPA (cutoff for review). I know my priority right now is to finish my last semester with a realistic 4.0, then I can focus on making the last push for the MCAT this summer.

I also looked into the Drexel IMS program, how does this rank among the SMP programs? I don't know if my previous lab work with Drexel PIs and the now Dean of A&S will have any impact on my application there, but it can't hurt. I also live in Philadelphia so best case scenario I would live at home during the SMP year.


thanks again

It's case by case, not automatic cutoff like Medical School. People with sub-3.0 have gotten into top-tier SMPs and a impressive GPA jump like yours will definitely work in your favor. That said, you WILL need a good MCAT, maybe even a great MCAT.

A lot of people feel Drexel's a bit below top tier and there's been some complaints/controversy about the program's operation
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=10561261#post10561261
Scroll through there and Control+F for Drexel for other reviews or search this forum for Drexel. Lots of info right there.

 

[jayashae]

what would you consider "great" MCAT with a GPA like 2.98-3.0 isn, I'm guessing like 32-33+?

also, the reason I looked into drexel was because of the guaranteed interview if you meet the grades and they hold 25(?) seats in their med school allocated between the programs. Of course, I understand I'm competing against medical students and and the entire program who also are fighting for their lives (so to speak). All that aside, I do feel confident I can place in the top group if given the opportunity. I am also aware that other SMP programs also have certain connections with their medical schools, and I would apply to multiple schools, probably a lot of them.

I read up on the drexel section of the post you provided, thanks. Also, I have not applied to medical school, ever? Is that really a requirement that I need to have applied in the first place to be considered in the SMP programs? Because I don't see that much of a difference between applying and getting rejected by every school versus not applying at all.

 

[WorldChanger36]

Thank you very much for your input!

I have indeed looked into SMPs, but I heard most SMPs won't even look at me if I don't break a 3.0 cGPA (cutoff for review). I know my priority right now is to finish my last semester with a realistic 4.0, then I can focus on making the last push for the MCAT this summer.

I also looked into the Drexel IMS program, how does this rank among the SMP programs? I don't know if my previous lab work with Drexel PIs and the now Dean of A&S will have any impact on my application there, but it can't hurt. I also live in Philadelphia so best case scenario I would live at home during the SMP year.


thanks again

3.0 isn't a cut off but you may not be competitive enough with out other things. 3.0 is a rule of thumb. Drexel is a middle of the road smp. Best programs are Temple, Georgetown, EVMS, U Cinni, RFU and U Tol. The reason I rank them there is because they are very successful at getting people into medical school within the first year. Drexel, Tufts, USF IMS, Loyola, Boston U, Tulane, USC ( jury is still out on this one) are more middle of the road. For those with top marks in the program they often get in within a year or two. There are others out there that are ranked a bit lower because they only cater to a small group or are not very good at getting people in within two years. They are NYMC, the DO school masters programs, Mississippi college,Barry and a few others. Then there are the sucker smps. Those programs that try to sucker in the people with 3.6 and 35 MCAT scores and take advantage of their recent bad luck. They are any smp associated with a top rank school.
So be wise don't get stuck in a program that isn't going to help you.

 

[WorldChanger36]

what would you consider "great" MCAT with a GPA like 2.98-3.0 isn, I'm guessing like 32-33+?

also, the reason I looked into drexel was because of the guaranteed interview if you meet the grades and they hold 25(?) seats in their med school allocated between the programs. Of course, I understand I'm competing against medical students and and the entire program who also are fighting for their lives (so to speak). All that aside, I do feel confident I can place in the top group if given the opportunity. I am also aware that other SMP programs also have certain connections with their medical schools, and I would apply to multiple schools, probably a lot of them.

I read up on the drexel section of the post you provided, thanks. Also, I have not applied to medical school, ever? Is that really a requirement that I need to have applied in the first place to be considered in the SMP programs? Because I don't see that much of a difference between applying and getting rejected by every school versus not applying at all.

About a 32 will open all SMP doors to you. There are better programs then Drexel and on the same level with less or different risks that maybe better suited to you. Explore them all. Apply to many programs. You don't need to apply to medical school in order to apply to smps. You can just apply to smps and take a gap year and apply to medical school after completing the program. SMps are a weigh the risk to benefit ratio game.

 

[jayashae]

ah, okay, I am more more informed now. Also, do you know how much SMP weighs things outside of GPA/MCAT such as research and shadowing/volunteering? I have a ton of research (and I'll be doing research full time next year), and a bit of volunteering, but 0 shadowing.. is this going to hurt me majorly when applying to SMP?

I'll do my best to score 32+


I have another question. So some SMP programs offer seats for their own medical school. Lets use the Drexel example; for qualifying individuals, do they base your application on how successful you were while attending the SMP, or do they consider previous undergrad GPA too? Because if that is the case, I'll out of luck competing against people who get in with 3.5uGPA...

 

[WorldChanger36]

ah, okay, I am more more informed now. Also, do you know how much SMP weighs things outside of GPA/MCAT such as research and shadowing/volunteering? I have a ton of research (and I'll be doing research full time next year), and a bit of volunteering, but 0 shadowing.. is this going to hurt me majorly when applying to SMP?

I'll do my best to score 32+


I have another question. So some SMP programs offer seats for their own medical school. Lets use the Drexel example; for qualifying individuals, do they base your application on how successful you were while attending the SMP, or do they consider previous undergrad GPA too? Because if that is the case, I'll out of luck competing against people who get in with 3.5uGPA...

Some programs weight clinical experience very highly. EVMS is one of those schools. No SMP holds research very highly but a traditional masters program would. If you have no shadowing I doubt most smps will consider your app. You have to have enough shadowing and clinical experience to get into medical school. Strong meaningful experience too. I would get on that it is very important. Only one smp offers seats to those that qualify and that is Temple. You are reading into and adding what you want to see in what the smp offers. Drexel offers interviews or a bypassing of the first part of the process and shuffle you straight to the interview process. This is actually what most smps do so don't think if you hit X grades you get into Drexel because that isn't true. This is why you want to find a program that has a high percent admitted to medical school and like I said Drexel is OK. Now I don't want you to take this the wrong way but every school even the ones with smps that you maybe attending will look at your ugGPA. However instead of looking for performance they will look for your errors and see if you have improved or if you are still making the same mistakes. Many smps give you a side by side comparison with there current medical students. If you continue the same trends that damaged your gpa in undergrad they will see it and be able to know how these errors will prevent you from succeeding in medical school. This is a big reason why nailing a 4.0 in an smp isn't always the answer. An smp is usually a chance to showcase you stuff in a level playing field, you have to show that if your science gpa is weak that you can handle the heavy load of science or if your gpa is weak from overloading yourself you have to show that you can keep your grades strong by seeking help with the heavy load. Medical schools know proven smp students are a safer bet then a person with a 3.5 gpa and an ok MCAT. SMPs also give you a chance to make inside connections with people in the medical school. So once again be wise and find a program that suits you best that maybe Drexel or that may even be a masters a DO school ( which doesn't lock you into a DO medical school by the way). Fix your lack of shadowing ( Shadow a DO or two as well so you can get a LOR), do well on the MCAT then apply from there to smps you are interested in.

 

[jayashae]

ah, gotcha. From an earlier post you mentioned, if I want to target DO as my goal, I have to shadow DOs and not MD's? Does this really matter which one I shadow? I have a liver/pancreatic surgeon inviting me to shadow him whenever I'm free right now, and he is a MD.

 

[WorldChanger36]

ah, gotcha. From an earlier post you mentioned, if I want to target DO as my goal, I have to shadow DOs and not MD's? Does this really matter which one I shadow? I have a liver/pancreatic surgeon inviting me to shadow him whenever I'm free right now, and he is a MD.

Yes you do need to shadow a DO unless you know of some other way to get a letter of recommendation from a DO. Still you should shadow the surgeon but try to shadow a few different people in primary care to help broaden your understanding. You will also meet more DOs this way too.