post-baccalaureate premedical programs

[wannabe101]

Hi -

I shall be completing a degree in BEng Electronic Engineering
And Medical Electronics at a university in England by April 2003.

After many months of consideration, i want to pursue medicine,
and hope to return to the US by summer 2003 to start the progess.

Can anyone advice:
- about which institutions offer a good post-bac course.
- do they consider international students
- is financial aid awarded to international students
- my current grades for my degree are very average (by US classification 2.8)
Will schools give me a conditional offer, or should i wait until i have my
final degree grade to apply?

Thanks in advance,

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[LuchoLiu]

Excellent decision! If you plan to study Medicine in the US it helps to have at least 1 year of courses in an American institution, or most of the time they won't even consider your application. About your questions:

- Many institutions offer "official" post-bacc programs. I'm currently enrolled at one in Illinois, where all classes are geared towards completion of Med School requirements and all are in the evenings (so I can continue to work during the day). If you won't have a full-time job, which you probably won't unless you get an H-1 work visa, you'll be here most likely on an F-1 student visa (unless you're married and plan to bring your wife, in which case the visa will be different). A student visa will not allow you to work in the US, only to study, and you have to be a full-time student (12 or more credits per semester). This means that you do not have to limit yourself to an "official" post-bacc program, but you can apply wherever you please, since the vast majority of universities in the US will allow you to enroll to take courses even when you're not working towards a degree. The only advantage of an "official" post-bacc program is that classes are offered at night (most post-baccs like myself are career changers and night classes help) and post-bacc institutions usually have a pre-medical office that can help with advising, etc. However, at this point, you can apply anywhere that will allow you to study pre-med classes without necessarily working towards a degree. Again, I'm assuming you have to come here on an F-1 visa. Only you know if that's the case or not.

- Being an international student is no problem. All you have to do is make sure you work with the Office of International Affairs (or whatever the university will call it) so they can fill out all the necessary federal paperwork so you can get a visa to come to the US to study. Again, I don't know your situation, so I'm assuming you'll be coming alone, which means an F-1 visa and you can't work (only part-time under very specific circumstances).

- Federal financial aid (Stafford loans, Perkins, etc.) are not available to international students. If you want to come to the US to study on a student visa you have to prove you can support yourself for the entire duration of your stay (yes, that means tuition, room, board, etc.). Sorry.

- You should wait until your final grades before you apply to any institution. They will need your final transcripts anyway. Final GPA is no problem; you'll probably be OK (depends on the university you apply to...standards vary).

Some comments on your plans: studying medicine in the US for an international student is super tough! Only a handful of Medical Schools in the US will consider you. Most Med Schools will only consider either US citizens or permanent residents. I'm assuming you're British. Perhaps you're an American in the UK, so this will not be a problem. Also, if you're dead set in enrolling in an "official" post-bacc program, you can check out Medpath. They publish a directory of post-bacc programs in the US. By the way, the reason I refer to post-bacc programs as "official" (in quotation marks) is because most of the time, post-bacc programs are nothing more than a name. You'll be taking classes with regular freshmen in bio or chemistry, but you won't be working towards a degree. The university will not have a real post-bacc program or department per se. Some, however, will issue special post-bacc completion certificates (which are useless, really. Your transcript is what matters).

Sorry about the length of this message. I'm quite experienced with the whole process of coming to study in the US, since I came to study here 16 years ago on an F-1 student visa (I'm from Spain). Things might have changed a bit, so check with someone who's not as old as I am Also, my advice is from someone who went through the process a long time ago. I'm not an advisor or a lawyer or anything like that, so check my comments with official sources from the universities you want to apply to just to be sure (you can tell I've lived here long...I have a disclaimer at the end of the message). Good luck!

- Lucho

 

[wannabe101]

Thank you so much for your advice Lucho!

I realise med-school is tough enough, never mind doing it as an international student.

I am a british citizen. It looks like the best bet will be to stay in England for a year and save some money before i consider coming out here.

How do you become a US residence? i heard you had to work in the state for 12 months full time.
Do residents qualify for loans?
Would this affect the financial aid situation (in that i would become eligable to apply for loans)? I hope this isn't too personal, but how did you do it? Did you have your own money to prove eligability to come and study in America

I appreciate your feedback.
As i said i hope to be in the US studying by summer 2003. In your opinion what's the best course of action that i should take in?

Cheers,
wannabe101

 

[Stephen Ewen]

International US medical students, and often any international student at any US institution, will usually need to shop they have the money sitting in the bank for the entire course of their study. US federal loans are not available to non-US residents. I am not sure whether any private loans would be available to you as a UK citizen. It is just a tough, tough road to hoe to come to the US as an international medical student, unless you are bankrolled externally.

Just in case: you still have hope to enter med school in a UK recognized medical school--I say this in case you are trying to come to the US because you feel you have less hope in becoming a doc in the UK. You can do a post-bac at, say, <a href="http://www.newsite.intercol.edu/programs/program_details.asp?ProgramId=PMED&DegreeObjectiveId=DIP&Year=1999&Semester=4Fall" target="_blank">Intercollege</a>, then apply to any of the short programs in the UK, as well as ones in Australia, plus the one at the University of West Indies (Trinidad or Jamaica), which are GMC recognized.

 

[LuchoLiu]

Yes, I believe Stephen is correct. You need to prove you can finance your *entire* education or you won't be considered for admission. You could get private loans instead of federal ones, but those are high interest and you could have a lot of difficulty obtaining private loans from US lenders (perhaps UK banks will be a better bet). Note that we're not only talking about proof that you can finance your post-bacc education, but when you apply to Med School you have to prove financial ability as well!! (Like we say in Spain, that's mucho dinero!).

Now, to get back to your questions, yes, permanent residents qualify for federal loans. Please keep in mind (again) that I'm just experienced in the whole visa / green card process but I'm not a lawyer, and laws change constantly (much more so after the unfortunate events of 9/11). Check with an immigration lawyer for the best information. As I know, to obtain a permanent resident card ("Green card") you need a sponsor. That sponsor can come in the form of an employer or an American citizen (such as a spouse). A green card takes about 2 to 3 years to obtain, so it's not as easy and quick as a student visa or an H-1 visa (remember that a green card allows you to stay indefinitely and work in the US. That's pretty serious stuff. It won't be quick or easy to get that). Also, while in the process of applying for a Green Card, it's possible to get a temporary work permit which has to be renewed yearly (this only applies to people applying for a green card while already in the US. Applying for a green card while outside the US makes you ineligible for this...or so I think. Check with the INS web site).

Since you're curious, my story is the following (very short version): Graduated from high school in 1987 and decided to come to the US to be a pre-med. Obtained an F-1 student visa from the US Consulate (after getting appropriate papers from the US university). My parents kindly offered to help me with showing proof of ability to support myself while in the US (the university will not even start to work to issue you the paperwork for a student visa if they don't receive this proof). When I arrived in the US and finished my freshman year in college I chickened out and went into engineering instead. After graduation (still F-1 visa) from both a bachelor's and a master's in engineering I did one year of "practical training", which is a special arrangement where the INS allows you to stay for one year after graduation to work in a job directly related to your field of study. During my practical training, I got a job offer and obtained an H-1B work visa (took about 4 months to process). Please note there's a finite number of H-1B visas allowed to be issued every year, and if you're too late, you have to wait until next year. Also, H-1 visas only last for a total of 6 years after which time if you don't have any other means to legally stay in the US you have to leave the country. After working for a number of years with an H-1B visa, I married a US citizen. She became my sponsor for a green card. After filling out the voluminous paperwork, I finally became a permanent resident (took about 3 years to obtain the green card). Now, almost 16 years after arriving in the US, I've decided to go back to my original pre-med plans and that's why I'm hanging out in this forum.

We're not trying to discourage you from coming to study Medicine in the US. We're just letting you know that it's going to be very difficult, not only because of the financial challenges but because the number of schools you can apply to are greatly reduced. For all your immigration questions the INS web site is excellent.

My advice to you is as follows: (1) finish your education with the highest GPA you can humanly obtain. If there's one thing I could do over again is to re-do my whole college career. Once I decided to drop pre-med and become an engineer I became very complacent as far as my grades (straight A's didn't seem that necessary anymore). (2) attempt to gain admission to UK Med schools first. UK schools are excellent. The only reason I'm not considering the UK to apply to Med School is, quite simply, most UK schools will tell me to my face that I'm just too old to go to Medical School! (3) if all else fails, try to gain admission to good medical schools within the European Union (better chances of admission for you), for example in Ireland. I don't know if you speak foreign languages. If you do, your options might grow (Spain, Germany,?). (4) if all that fails, try the US. However, at that point I highly recommend a backup plan.

Good luck with your plans. I apologize again for the length of my message. Once I get going with the typing my fingers just get a life of their own...

- Lucho

 

[hatsune05]

I'm also searching for post-baccalaureate pre-med programs in the Philippines. Unfortunately, I ended up searching for international programs which I know are costly. Do you know some local programs in the Philippines? Badly needed your help. Thanks in advance.

 

[realaircanada]

I dunno if you noticed but the last message in this thread is from 13 years ago....