Post-Graduation. Where are we?

[leorl]

Since Atlantic Bridge isn't exactly forthcoming on match results (if they have them), and our pool of graduates on SDN is getting larger, we might as well start collecting some of this info ourselves. Starting with this year's graduating class, I'll ask contacts I have in each school to give me their match lists, but in the meantime lets see where we go with this!

Please post whichever you feel like of:
1) Irish college you attended:
2) Year graduated:
3) What you did post-graduation:
4) Where and in what field(s) you matched:
5) First time applying for match?
6) First choice for residency?
7) Where you are now (if different from above):
8) Sat USMLE, Canadian Boards, or both?:
9) USMLE / Canadian Boards scores:
10) Final degree "GPA":
11) Experiences or advice/opinions you'd like to share (eg. happy/unhappy with your program, happy/unhappy with Irish/UK med school experience):

Please don't troll or flame.

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[pattycanuck]

Thanks for following my post leorl! BTW, I'll let the Bhachu know .

Here are my details as per the original thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=309465

 

[mick2003]

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[mick2003]

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[pattycanuck]

Oh the big CC! Glad to hear things are going well down there! Long time bud! And yes ... I have paid off all the cash related to that lost in the shell game in Budapest

Now only a few hours from you so hopefully we can meet up either down there or up here (now with our families ) - old and good friends ... almost like old times.

Nice to see the old charmer himself ("SD") is down there with you doing a pain fellowship - the ladies must be heart broken with one of you off the menu ...

 

[pattycanuck]

Are there no other UK/Irish grads on this forum or is it just a pre-med/current-student meeting place?

 

[jujube]

Maybe they're posting on the 'Graduate Specialty' forums?

 

[leorl]

Mainly med students here I think. I find that sometimes with the exception of a few, once people graduate they don't come back an visit . Or they get too busy with their new intern lives, and come back in a couple years when they have more time to play on the internet. I wish more graduated folks would stick around though

 

[pattycanuck]

Kinda sad if it is the case that once you graduate that you turf the forum - I am sure there are many others there that can offer sound advice and also offer other suggestions to what at least I and some of the other very few have contributed to this forum in particular

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Well, I'll stay once I graduate (if I'm lucky enough to get accepted, lol).

 

[pattycanuck]

Well, I'll stay once I graduate (if I'm lucky enough to get accepted, lol).

Will the forum be alive in 6 years time ?

 

[Mr. McDuck]

I hope so!

 

[leorl]

It's lasted for 5 years now, what's another 6 I'll try to drum up people in my class once we graduate this spring, and try to contact others I know who're practicing in the US/Canada already. Pattycanuck, see if you can get the bachu ...one of his friends used to visit here too and i don't know where he's gone now...think he might be an intern in Ireland so if I see him i'll ask him to post

 

[docolive]

Well, I'll stay once I graduate (if I'm lucky enough to get accepted, lol).

same here. I want this (studying medicine in Ireland) to work out so very much. But, my MCAT score is not good enough; will be retaking in January. I had to void in August since I got sick. The worst part was that I opened the book; I could have had a chance at writing the exam on Sunday had I not completed the Physical Sciences section....and to make me even more depressed, the physical sciences was not so bad.
Oh well, everything happens for a reason. I really regret having to submit my current scorecard to ABP. I am capable of doing much better...just didn't know what I was in for the first time I took the exam....naive and too confident. Hope to read more from you all soon.

 

[jujube]

^Docolive, I don't think high MCAT scores will be THE determining factor in the end although it certainly can't hurt. If I were an admisisons officer I would rather have someone who is compassionate and has been actively involved in the health field than someone who merely did the requisite minimum of volunteer work, has astronomically high MCAT scores but nil social skills. But that is not to say that all high MCAT scorers are like that...just a gross caricature on my part, no offense to anyone out there I think there's a place for ALL of us in medicine, no matter which route we choose to take. I wish you the very best on the MCAT, you deserve a huge pat on the back for undergoing this again!

 

[docolive]

^Docolive, I don't think high MCAT scores will be THE determining factor in the end although it certainly can't hurt. If I were an admisisons officer I would rather have someone who is compassionate and has been actively involved in the health field than someone who merely did the requisite minimum of volunteer work, has astronomically high MCAT scores but nil social skills. But that is not to say that all high MCAT scorers are like that...just a gross caricature on my part, no offense to anyone out there I think there's a place for ALL of us in medicine, no matter which route we choose to take. I wish you the very best on the MCAT, you deserve a huge pat on the back for undergoing this again!

thank you so much jujube. I just wrote a lengthy reply and it got deleted! I think taking the MCAT and more importantly, preparing for it---is a good learning experience. I feel that my application is strong because like most people truly passionate about practicing medicine, I've done what represents me as a person.
I hope they notice other things about my application because reading it from one's own point of view is very difficult, and one wonders how well your motivation and desire to study in Ireland is conveyed.
Anyhow, when I spoke to Mr. Keenan, he had said that they look at everything. I know I can beat the MCAT beast. Just need to sleep for more than an hour before the exam and ease up on the test anxiety. Best wishes to you and thank you for your kind reply.

 

[docolive]

Hi to those of you who are currently medical students in Ireland.
I was wondering what the consensus is regarding board scores....are most of your hard-working students successful??? I presume so. I think that the Irish schools have a stellar reputation compared to most Foreign medical schools, but occasionally one reads about the lower pass rate for FMG's...

I can understand where this comes from..... considering some schools have vastly different curriculums compared to the U.S., or some of the Carib. schools that are not as great (although I have heard that St. George is pretty good). Note that a lot of the residency positions filled by their '06 grads were in Internal medicine or Family Practice.

Anyhow, I am curious as to how you and your fellow North American colleagues are performing on the USMLE's....generally speaking of course!
thank you!

 

[kateinireland]

Our class (final med UCD) has done very very well on USMLEs and interviews. A bunch of 90th something percentiles and great competitive specialties (Stanford, Clevland Clinic etc). It all depends on the work you put in....plus UCD has a great reputation...

 

[docolive]

Our class (final med UCD) has done very very well on USMLEs and interviews. A bunch of 90th something percentiles and great competitive specialties (Stanford, Clevland Clinic etc). It all depends on the work you put in....plus UCD has a great reputation...

That's wonderful. Congrats to you and your class.

 

[leorl]

My class has done ok, some people better than others, but I wouldn't say spectacularly. quite a few people actually haven't done them yet (I'm not really sure why). The two people who are matching this year (both going into IM) have received very good offers. One of them received a prematch offer into a very prestigious program (he/she had also previous worked there), which is dependent on Step 2 scores. Others are going Canadian and won't know their status til later.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Our class (final med UCD) has done very very well on USMLEs and interviews. A bunch of 90th something percentiles and great competitive specialties (Stanford, Clevland Clinic etc). It all depends on the work you put in....plus UCD has a great reputation...

I'm sure UCD doesn't tailor to the USMLEs, so what did you guys use to prepare? I'm just curious so that I can have an idea of what to get when I go over there.

 

[docolive]

I'm sure UCD doesn't tailor to the USMLEs, so what did you guys use to prepare? I'm just curious so that I can have an idea of what to get when I go over there.

Just to note, there are online USMLE prep courses available and I believe that they are intended for use in countries other than the UK as well.
I too, am interested as to how the medical students (in Ireland) prepare for the USMLE on their own time.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

True. I just wasn't sure if the different curriculum would require the use of different books/preps. There are a million posts on what the best books are, etc. So, if it's just a matter of getting them and finding time to relate the material to the USMLE format, as long as you start early, I don't think it would be much different.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Uh, wow. Thanks crappy school internet.

 

[Jammer]

Our class (final med UCD) has done very very well on USMLEs and interviews. A bunch of 90th something percentiles and great competitive specialties (Stanford, Clevland Clinic etc). It all depends on the work you put in....plus UCD has a great reputation...

You are probably confusing the two-digit score with a percentile when you write '90th something percentiles'. The two-digit score is not a percentile just a score out of 99 that is correlated with the three-digit score. The only way to calculate which percentile you fall in (where in the normal distribution you fall when compared with other medical students that took the test), is to use your score report which tells you your three-digit score, the average scores for your test session, and the standard deviation for your test session.

When students say they got '90' on the USMLE, they are referring to the two-digit score out of '99'. Depending on the test session, a two-digit score of '90' may equate to falling somewhere between the 55th and 70th percentile. Conversely, if you get a two-digit score of '99', you probably fall somewhere above the 90th to 95th percentile. If you look at a score report, you will understand all of this.

 

[leorl]

Good correction Jammer. This thread is starting to digress from the original topic so I may move some posts. Basically the online review material for Step 1 is the Kaplan Qbank. The online material for step 2 is USMLEWorld (some people still prefer Kaplan Qbank but usmleworld is known to be better and cheaper). We have to supplement with other books because we're not taught some of the material to the same degree.

It's not exactly the school prep which prepares you for the USMLE since the examination system here is vastly different from the US one. What I found about people who scored better was the real committment and time to prepare. Those who scored worse tend to be the ones who participated in many extracurriculars and continued doing so throughout their exam prep, or who had concurrent life events which were distractors. You need a good amount of very focused time, which no matter how many times people say, you often don't realize until after you've taken it.

 

[tkim]

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[kateinireland]

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[Mr. McDuck]

Good correction Jammer. This thread is starting to digress from the original topic so I may move some posts. Basically the online review material for Step 1 is the Kaplan Qbank. The online material for step 2 is USMLEWorld (some people still prefer Kaplan Qbank but usmleworld is known to be better and cheaper). We have to supplement with other books because we're not taught some of the material to the same degree.

It's not exactly the school prep which prepares you for the USMLE since the examination system here is vastly different from the US one. What I found about people who scored better was the real committment and time to prepare. Those who scored worse tend to be the ones who participated in many extracurriculars and continued doing so throughout their exam prep, or who had concurrent life events which were distractors. You need a good amount of very focused time, which no matter how many times people say, you often don't realize until after you've taken it.

Feel free to move this, but I figured I'd ask here since we're on the topic.

Would you (or anyone else with an educated opinion) recommend taking them in sort of the same time frame as they are taken here, i.e., Step 1 after the pre-clinical stuff and Step 2 towards the end of your clinical years? I'm guessing that'd probably mean after 3rd year for Step 1 and in your 6th year for the Step 2s (for a 6-year program). Or would it be better to wait until you're just about done and take them all at once? I'd think that would probably be more difficult, but it seems like a lot of people do that.

 

[leorl]

i would not recommend waiting til you're done to take them all at once. Unless you want to take a year out after graduation and before you interview. Your residency applications need your USMLE scores. Plus, after you graduate...you do NOT want to spend your couple months of holidays taking more exams. And you also do not want to try to take the exams during an intern year (if you stay here) because you're worked to the ground anyway. Timing is different for everyone. For 5 year programs, most people end up taking Step 1 in year 4 or summer of year 3, then step two in summer after year 4 or early year 5.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

That's what I figured. Hopefully, I'll be able to work it out so I can take them while back in the states so I don't have to pay that damn fee.

 

[deleted21609]

You should probably go ahead and move almost all of these posts or remove the 'sticky' -if that's even possibly. It's misleading to have a sticky titled 'Post-Graduation. Where are we?' that contains almost no posts about where we are post graduation. I know you know this already, but it hasn't been done. Later.

 

[Delano]

Hello, I'm a medical intern from the Philippines. 25 years old. This year or the next, I'm planning to have my residency in UK or Australia..but I'm in a dilemma where to go. Can you guys help me out? I hope to hear your stories. I hope to make doctor friends form all over the world. Thank you very much. BTW, Im planning to take up Infectious diseases or Hematology oncology as my field of specialisation. Thanks again.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

In my class from UCD about half failed step 1, and that is the people that admitted it.Someone even failed Step 2 CS. Step 2 Ck scores were also on the low side. Another person failed ck after narrowly passing step 1.Only about 3 people got over 90.From what i see, this trend continues year after year-of course UCD will only talk about the dude who got 99

 

[Badkarma25]

are people still posting their post-grad (or near grad) info on this thread?

 

[leorl]

In my class from UCD about half failed step 1, and that is the people that admitted it.Someone even failed Step 2 CS. Step 2 Ck scores were also on the low side. Another person failed ck after narrowly passing step 1.Only about 3 people got over 90.From what i see, this trend continues year after year-of course UCD will only talk about the dude who got 99

The same thing happened at Trinity. I wouldn't say half failed step 1, but scores were definitely not great. I think in my year, maybe 1 got over 90. I think 3 people failed step 1 first time, and I will admit, that includes myself. I was incredibly embarassed about it because that was the first thing i'd ever failed and it was a massive thing. However, in hindsight the problems were a) not enough time studying for it b) not studying for it in the right way because I was really naive about it c) the subject material which was taught poorly i was weak in (ie. pathology) or had difficulty being motivated to teach myself (ie. genetics) d) I took on too many time-intensive extracurricular responsibilities that year (captaining my sports club, directing the student medical journal) including nearly taking my landlord to court e) luck - i got an exam which was really heavy on genetics.

Step 2 we all passed well...i actually didn't score as highly on step 2 as I was hoping because I took it before I did study for medicine and surgery and so therefore had to teach med/surg to myself. In hindsight, i should have waited a few months.

1 person has had difficulty passing all three exams. This person had some difficulty passing exams and did supplementals each year of medical school.

In the year above mine, 1 person (Canadian who went back to canada) scored above 95 on step 1 but this person had extra time studying for it. In the year below mine, there are a couple extremely bright people who actually do not do a single thing outside medicine except study, and they both scored 99 on step 1 - they're Irish.

Where am I going to be post-graduation? After staying in Dublin for intern year, Matched first time applying and I'm going to be in NYC for EM. I'm not saying this was easy despite having a red flag. I was lucky. As it happens, my cv except for the step 1 is very good.

 

[leorl]

Oh right...i'll follow the format.

Please post whichever you feel like of:
1) Irish college you attended: Trinity
2) Year graduated: 2007
3) What you did post-graduation: stayed for intern year in Ireland so I could get full registration with the medical council (not necessary to stay here to do that), have more time with my friends, and money.
4) Where and in what field(s) you matched: EM
5) First time applying for match? yes
6) First choice for residency? yes
7) Where you are now (if different from above): still in dub now, Manhattan from July.
8) Sat USMLE, Canadian Boards, or both?: USMLE
9) USMLE / Canadian Boards scores: fail 1st attempt step 1, only 80 2nd attempt, only 83 step 2 ck, pass cs first time
10) Final degree "GPA": Pass (2nd honors medicine, surgery) and a component of this is that Trinity screw people. More later.
11) Experiences or advice/opinions you'd like to share (eg. happy/unhappy with your program, happy/unhappy with Irish/UK med school experience): That is going to be a whole other post-mortem thread. Overall happy (just) but definitely would have done things differently if I could again.

I hope other posters will be able to post way better scores than mine. They make me look and feel like an idiot (and embarassing to admit to those who have met me) when that is actually not the case, whether in hospital or out of hospital. I'm posting them so that at least people have an idea of what can happen and I'd say I'd be among the average in terms of scores/degree when you compare all the NA students graduating from the Irish schools.

 

[Badkarma25]

1) Irish college you attended: UCD
2) Year graduated: 2008 (hopefully)
3) What you did post-graduation: hopefully graduating in june, getting the hell out of here
4) Where and in what field(s) you matched: Family Medicine, University of Manitoba
5) First time applying for match? yes
6) First choice for residency? yes
7) Where you are now (if different from above): still in Dublin, Winnipeg as of mid-June
8) Sat USMLE, Canadian Boards, or both?: Canadian boards only
9) USMLE / Canadian Boards scores: scored 283 on the MCCEE (approx the 65-70th percentile, beat the mean but not a super great score)
10) Final degree "GPA": have no idea about this yet but as a non-irish i won't expect much more than a pass. frankly the classification means nothing to me.
11) Experiences or advice/opinions you'd like to share (eg. happy/unhappy with your program, happy/unhappy with Irish/UK med school experience):
Overall I'm happy I came to Ireland. Dealing with the administration and beauracracy has been very annoying and just illogical. The program is ok, but could have been a lot better (and I'm happy to see in the years below me that they seem to be making improvements). Overall the best part about coming here was the friends I've made and the travelling I've got to do. Like Leorl said, I think that a post-mortem thread on this topic is probably a more appropriate forum. Hope this information was helpful.

 

[SB Taco King]

For those heading back to the US for residency, will you ever get to put an "MD" by your name? What's the deal with that these days. During my RCSI interview 2 months ago a longtime grad of the college who practices in Chicago put MD on his card, and when I asked him about it, he said he just started signing his name that way, and it wasn't a big deal because he had graduated so long ago. He was unsure what the status is now, and if you could get in trouble because the Irish medical degrees not technically an MD.

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[Badkarma25]

my 2 cents is who gives a crap. i think the irish degree looks cool and distinctive. you're the same kind of doctor as md so i really don't see why so many people are so concerned about this. be happy to be in med school doing what you want!

 

[med2UCC]

1) Irish college you attended: UCC
2) Year graduated: 2008
3) What you did post-graduation: Family Medicine, Cape Breton Island
4) Where and in what field(s) you matched: Family Medicine, Dalhousie University, Nova Scotia, Canada
5) First time applying for match? Absolutely!
6) First choice for residency? Yes
7) Where you are now (if different from above): Still at UCC for 2 months, then Sydney (no, the less exciting one in Nova Scotia, not the exciting one in Australia) in June
8) Sat USMLE, Canadian Boards, or both?: MCCEE only
9) USMLE / Canadian Boards scores: MCCEE score 340 (~90th centile)
10) Final degree "GPA": 2:1
11) Experiences or advice/opinions you'd like to share (eg. happy/unhappy with your program, happy/unhappy with Irish/UK med school experience): Very relaxed experience in medical school. Have had good consultants except for a few odd ones who just hate students in general (and I know from previous experiences with uni that you get them everywhere). Had excellent experience on my electives this summer and have no worries about knowing enough or being able to hold my own when I go back to Canada. Overall I would say I am happy with UCC despite occasional glitches, and I am going to miss all the people I have gotten to know, both in medicine and in the wider community, when I go home. Make the most of your time in Ireland and stop focusing on what it isn't and you will come out with a good medical education despite the odd teaching practices sometimes and the shorter hours and everything else we bitch about!
I should add, I am an optimist and very hard to piss off-that probably helps a lot!

 

[jnuts]

Almost all North American hospitals make you use MD to avoid patient confusion. This actually raises the problem of poor recognition of how many IMGs are actually practicing.

 

[patrick07]

Congratulations to all who got a residency spot.

I am curious to know whether Canadian grads from these Irish schools can apply to both U.S. and Canadian residencies? For instance, if I do most of N.American rotations in Canada, can I still apply to residency in the U.S.?

 

[med2UCC]

Congratulations to all who got a residency spot.

I am curious to know whether Canadian grads from these Irish schools can apply to both U.S. and Canadian residencies? For instance, if I do most of N.American rotations in Canada, can I still apply to residency in the U.S.?

Provided you have written all the exams you can apply in both systems. However, programs seem to match people who have done electives in their program or specialty (and country)so it is usually better to focus on one system and have the other as a back-up. Doing mostly Canadian electives might not work very well if you are planning on applying to the US as your primary target. Cheers,
M

 

[jabberwocky]

Those from Trinity and UCD are reporting that nearly half of their classes did not pass the Step 1 of the USMLEs. With regard to RCSI:
1) Is this low passing rate true for those Americans coming from RCSI?
2) Of those who passed the Step 1 from RCSI, how high were the scores?
3) Is the course-load at RCSI really intense? ie: 24/7 studying

Thanks!
RCSI prospect

 

[leorl]

RCSI tend to have higher scores, as their school is more supportive of those who need to take the USMLE - in terms of allowing "time off" for study purposes and also I think they're starting to financially support either the USMLE's themselves or some study aids. This post is probably best discussed by opening a new thread with the same title.

 

[Beauj]

RCSI grad 2006.
Step 1 94/225 ck 99/240
I graduated and then did my internship there and moved to the states last july. Had some personal fam issues and had my apps/exams delayed and did not match. With regards to my classmates, they all matched straight out of school into pretty much whatever they wanted. was in the the 6 year program so what most ppl do is take step 1 after the 4th year and then step 2 before 6 year. Few ppl failed and few ppl got 99/99. Dont know the stats but guessing the stats are some where in the middle (mid 80's). What i can say is that ppl in my class/year above/below have matched in every field eg plastics/optho/uro.... Dont know forsure but was in contact with a friend from my class the other day and she told me that they have implemented a usmle course/study package for the ppl taking the exam now as when we took them, it was completly independent. With regards to UCD/Trinity, they cant hold a candle to RCSI. I know it, they know it and now all u know it!!!!!!!!

 

[jnuts]

The first round matches for Canadian Students can be found on the Canadian Irish Medical Students Association website; www.cimsa.ie
Current Students>Academics>Presentations>2009 Match Results

 

[FranksWildYears]

The same thing happened at Trinity. I wouldn't say half failed step 1, but scores were definitely not great. I think in my year, maybe 1 got over 90. I think 3 people failed step 1 first time, and I will admit, that includes myself. I was incredibly embarassed about it because that was the first thing i'd ever failed and it was a massive thing. However, in hindsight the problems were a) not enough time studying for it b) not studying for it in the right way because I was really naive about it c) the subject material which was taught poorly i was weak in (ie. pathology) or had difficulty being motivated to teach myself (ie. genetics) d) I took on too many time-intensive extracurricular responsibilities that year (captaining my sports club, directing the student medical journal) including nearly taking my landlord to court e) luck - i got an exam which was really heavy on genetics.

Step 2 we all passed well...i actually didn't score as highly on step 2 as I was hoping because I took it before I did study for medicine and surgery and so therefore had to teach med/surg to myself. In hindsight, i should have waited a few months.

1 person has had difficulty passing all three exams. This person had some difficulty passing exams and did supplementals each year of medical school.

In the year above mine, 1 person (Canadian who went back to canada) scored above 95 on step 1 but this person had extra time studying for it. In the year below mine, there are a couple extremely bright people who actually do not do a single thing outside medicine except study, and they both scored 99 on step 1 - they're Irish.

Where am I going to be post-graduation? After staying in Dublin for intern year, Matched first time applying and I'm going to be in NYC for EM. I'm not saying this was easy despite having a red flag. I was lucky. As it happens, my cv except for the step 1 is very good.

b) not studying for it in the right way

Leorl, What would be the right way to prep for step 1 coming out of Trinity or UCD? What would you have done differently given another chance?

Thanks!
Frank

 

[leorl]

This is difficult to answer because it's very individual. One of the things which made it hard for me (and my class) was that our pathology curriculum got changed for our year and was taught very poorly, so we ended up trying to teach ourselves pathology. I believe it has since improved greatly, so it should be easier for future years. Look in the general international forum for the sticky I started a couple years ago about the USMLE. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=248031 .

I think the main thing is to get something like First Aid, and as you are learning subject material, find that subject in first aid and annotate your notes. Some subjects (like physiology) are taught in a completely different way and you really have to get used to the American system. It takes practice. Lots of practice questions.