Poety

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Hi, I thought I would start a thread on any/all feedback interviewees have received from programs after going to interview.

I've only heard from one: UNC - which seemed to be a letter most other applicants from that day recieved as well.

It's probably still early but I thought I would start this anyway so we can see who is contacting applicants and who isn't :)

Good Luck everyone! I'm sure you are all "highly" recruitable and will be bombarded soon enough :thumbup:
 

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I'm sure that it doesn't mean anything, but I got a very nice letter from Wash. U. just yesterday. The letter was very personal, and it even referenced my SO. One of the attendings with whom I have worked is a graduate of Wash. U., and the letter mentioned the LOR that she had written for me and stated that I should give her their regards and thank her for encouraging me to visit them.

They told me when I was there that I would receive a personalized letter after my interview; so I do not think that the letter meant much (i.e. I don't think that there was any hidden meaning). I will say that it was very nice, and it spoke well of their program. At this point, I love Wash. U. so much that it seems hard to imagine that any other program can compete!
 

Poety

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Oh you're in love :love: :love: :love:

I'm in love too, but I have a feeling my affections will be torn on Monday - in a serious committal type of way ;)

I'm sure your letter does mean something - not just nothing so at least be happy it was so personalized!
 
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mosche

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Poety said:
Oh you're in love :love: :love: :love:

I'm in love too, but I have a feeling my affections will be torn on Monday - in a serious committal type of way ;)

I'm sure your letter does mean something - not just nothing so at least be happy it was so personalized!
Oh, I'm happy. I'm just trying to head out of the clouds. Besides, there is still much interviewing to be done, and they could realize that I'm a dud when compared to most of the SDN Super Psych. Docs.. I mean really, when I read some of these peoples credentials I feel like an also-ran!
 

Poety

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mosche said:
Oh, I'm happy. I'm just trying to head out of the clouds. Besides, there is still much interviewing to be done, and they could realize that I'm a dud when compared to most of the SDN Super Psych. Docs.. I mean really, when I read some of these peoples credentials I feel like an also-ran!

Easy killer, if you're a dud, I'm like those poor folks that ranked 12 programs and didn't match anywhere! OY VAY DON'T EVEN SAY IT!!!

:scared: :scared: :scared:

Whats sad is, I'm wanting to hear back from programs and its barely been a month since interveiwing season started. I still can't believe my first interview was just Nov 7, it feels like DECADES AGO! 6 deep, 6 to go!

edit: is this going to turn into the Poety and Mosche thread? HAHA :laugh:
 

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When I was in the circuit a few years ago, I got a few "thanks for coming to the interview" letters (don't remember much personalization) but no real "recruitment" stuff until the few weeks before rank lists were due. At that time, I got some phone calls from a few PD's. Some were cryptic and some were very direct, i.e. "we really felt there was a good fit to our program and you are ranked to match"...
 

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Poety said:
willow where have you been? and thanks so much for that information! Its great to hear from people that have already been through this process such as yourself. :)
I interviewed in Boston (Cambridge, BU, MGH-McLean, Longwood), NY (Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Mt Sinai), Yale, and a few California programs (Stanford, UCLA, UC Davis). I'll post my year's version of the "post-interview opinions" in your equivalent thread.

Good luck!
 

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willow212 said:
I interviewed in Boston (Cambridge, BU, MGH-McLean, Longwood), NY (Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Mt Sinai), Yale, and a few California programs (Stanford, UCLA, UC Davis). I'll post my year's version of the "post-interview opinions" in your equivalent thread.

Good luck!
I, too, interviewed at all the above programs except for the California spots last year, and I would like to issue a friendly caution to all applicants: despite interview-day promises of fair play and regulation compliance and so forth, I was burned by a promise made by one of the above programs. I received two phone calls from the PD, several more from my interviewers, and an email three days before the match which promised me a spot, and yet I ended up matching at my second choice. On match day I was in complete shock!!! My advice is to try to rank programs without regard to how much a program courts you. You might end up getting burned like me.

Also, despite interview-day promises from programs that they don't call applicants to sway their influence, I would also mention that Columbia was the only program not to call me personally or email me to say how much they would like to train me. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Best of luck to everyone, and if you'd like to see the emails I got you can always PM me.
 

Poety

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tomato said:
I, too, interviewed at all the above programs except for the California spots last year, and I would like to issue a friendly caution to all applicants: despite interview-day promises of fair play and regulation compliance and so forth, I was burned by a promise made by one of the above programs. I received two phone calls from the PD, several more from my interviewers, and an email three days before the match which promised me a spot, and yet I ended up matching at my second choice. On match day I was in complete shock!!! My advice is to try to rank programs without regard to how much a program courts you. You might end up getting burned like me.

Also, despite interview-day promises from programs that they don't call applicants to sway their influence, I would also mention that Columbia was the only program not to call me personally or email me to say how much they would like to train me. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Best of luck to everyone, and if you'd like to see the emails I got you can always PM me.

What an excellent piece of advice - Exactly why I'm not buying or selling a house until AFTER match day!

We really appreciate everyone being so honest and sharing their experiences - hopefully these threads will continue for the next years to follow too.
 

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The PD at Emory said that come rank list time, he would "be as forthcoming as the applicant desires." Given the previous posts of false promises, I was wondering if anyone out there had any specific experience with Emory's promises.
 

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Poety said:
Does everyone think maybe the less competitive residencies are more sincere or do you think all of them are just about the same when it comes to trying to recruit? I'm asking becaues my number one program sent me an email saying I'd be a great addition and I REALLY WANT TO BELIEVE IT! :)
I haven't really heard any stories of people getting burned by disingenuous Program Directors. One of my friends last year spoke with a PD during the January jockeying season, and he basically told her that he was ranking the program #1, and she told him, "Well, you know the rules, and I can't really be too specific with you. But if you were thinking of buying a house, you might want to come here before Match Day and get a jump on the market. That's all I can say."

Rather than suspect PDs of being disingenuous, I think it might be more productive to see them as trying to encourage qualified applicants to come to their program. Even the 'top' programs know that they will have to go down on their rank list to fill their spots, some deeper than others. If you have 10 spots, you're not going to limit your recruiting phone calls to the top 10 candidates, because many of them are going to pick other programs. There may be 50 candidates that you would be more than happy to have in your program. So you call all 50 and say "We'd love to have you here." And depending on how the market shakes out on Match Day, hopefully 10 of them will choose your program.

Am I just being too naive?

-AT.
 

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Poety said:
One thing at a program I interviewed at came up which was the fact that would I really WANT to match at my 13th choice? no way - so maybe a scramble if you don't get your top choices is better than getting that last one on your list?
I've liked a lot of the programs I've interviewed at. I don't think I'll quite make it to 13 interviews, but if I had to drop down to, say, #7, I would be more than happy.

-AT.
 
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Poety

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atsai3 said:
I've liked a lot of the programs I've interviewed at. I don't think I'll quite make it to 13 interviews, but if I had to drop down to, say, #7, I would be more than happy.

-AT.
Me too AT, problem is the rest of my interviews are all in areas I'd probably like to live - so I may be stuck doing all 12 :( I'm thinking about just going on two more though and calling it a day - rank 9 and then let fate and God work their magic :)

AT, I'm sure you're going to match at your number one. I can't WAIT to see where all of us end up!!! It'll be the "where are you going" thread!!!
 

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I would just like a little feedback so I can start shutting this thing down..the fear is that so far I only have 3 that I would be pretty sure to be happy at. WIth is still being fairly early in the process there are bound to be candidates as attractive if not more..so it adds an extra element of uncertainy. I have had several interviewers and program directors tell me...your credentials are excellent its just up to you to choose where you want to live...and I'm like sure dude whatever....but part of me wants to believe that its true and all I need to do is rank my favorite #1 and its all good...especially w/ a wife a 1yr old, a 16yr old sister-in-law, and my momma (southern boys always need their momma's close :) ) I need to start planning now.....oh my god I think my heads gonna explode.
 

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osiris3 said:
I would just like a little feedback so I can start shutting this thing down..the fear is that so far I only have 3 that I would be pretty sure to be happy at. WIth is still being fairly early in the process there are bound to be candidates as attractive if not more..so it adds an extra element of uncertainy. I have had several interviewers and program directors tell me...your credentials are excellent its just up to you to choose where you want to live...and I'm like sure dude whatever....but part of me wants to believe that its true and all I need to do is rank my favorite #1 and its all good...especially w/ a wife a 1yr old, a 16yr old sister-in-law, and my momma (southern boys always need their momma's close :) ) I need to start planning now.....oh my god I think my heads gonna explode.
awww Osiris I'm sorry! Sending you a PM
 

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A PD of a program (not psychiatry) where I did a rotation told us the following story. Not too long ago they had a candidate from the local area that REALLY wanted this program, and the program REALLY wanted him. They ranked him #1 and he only ranked them (no other programs on his rol). Then match day came and he didn't match (ouch). PD said the candidate was furious. What happened? Well, it turns out there were two people with the SAME name in the match. The administrative person that submitted the program's ranking of candidates put the wrong one. So this program got stuck with a guy they wouldn't have ranked and the other guy waited one year (he really, really wanted that program.)
 

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Yeah, I think its all generic, I'm starting to think every program is writing the same thing to every applicant but a different variation of it :(
 

The Pride

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I just got an email from the Emory PD saying that they have interviewed 70, anticipate interviewing 110, and that I will "rank competitively." Not sure how high that means, but I'm excited anyway. Yay!
 

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I had a unique situation because of my significant other's concurrent nationwide job search. I told all the PDs that my partner was looking for a job as well and his job prospects would play very much into our decision-making process (i.e. if he's not going to be able to find a job, I'm going to have to rank it lower). I heard from WUSTL, UCSF, UCSD, Stanford, Penn, and Columbia. The chair at Stanford (yes, the actual Allan Schatzberg - :love: ) called me twice to offer me a letter stating that I would be ranked high enough to match, so that my partner could feel free to go ahead and accept a job prior to the Match date (something that was also a huge confounder in the whole process). I know for certain that Columbia calls the top 12-15 people on their list to let them know they are "ranked very highly" but not everyone who matches gets that call. Also, Yale very much sticks to their promise of not calling you unless you call them to find out if you are "highly ranked." Some other places said they do that and then called anyway :( .

Frankly, getting the calls can be a very weird process. Like my experience at UCSF, I had a weird interview with PD who said things that were very disparaging of the chair at my school's department. A few other interviewers were all about my research background and what project I might be able to pick up in their lab, flattering clearly, but less about the actual person I am. So I was shocked that the person who called me twice from the program was the one interviewer I actually liked and had a great conversation with about life, work, and family balance. That made it really difficult for me to decide whether to disclose my intention to not rank the program. Ultimately, I left it at the ambiguous, "I really liked aspects of the program, but ultimately I'm waiting until the last minute to make my final decision based on my partner's job situation." This was very true, I made last minute switch in my ROL based on the fact that at 9pm the list was due my husband got called to interview at a job he'd been very interested in, so that location's school got moved up on the list.

One thing I would recommend is to maintain e-mail contact with 1-2 residents at each program you interview at. If you get that feedback call, e-mail them and ask what their experience was? Did they get the call? Do they know that the PD calls the top 50 people on the list or the top 10. Usually residents know this information and will disclose it once you've established contact with them. And vice versa, if you don't get a call, I would ask if everybody in the program got calls.

Things to ask residents about after you leave the interview day - their experience of supervision on inpatient units, in the ER, on C/L, and in the outpt setting. Too much, too little, weaker in one of the settings? Also, work-life balance, is it encouraged, discouraged, or ignored? Are there mechanisms to improve class cohesiveness - namely class process groups each of the years? And finally, if you think you are interested in a specific fellowship, what do residents think about their exposure to that area, is the program set up to fast-track into child fellowship (if you're interested), and where do people from the program match in the fellowships, does everyone stay in the same place (can be good or bad, but suggests inertia) or do people leave for great places too?
 

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I just got a very nice letter from Vanderbilt saying that I am "the type of candidate that they are trying to attract" into their program. They also said that they would love to have me back for a second interview. On the whole, the letter was very nice, and I'm seriously considering going back for a second look.
 
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BKN

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Yeah, I think its all generic, I'm starting to think every program is writing the same thing to every applicant but a different variation of it :(
Atsai said:
Rather than suspect PDs of being disingenuous, I think it might be more productive to see them as trying to encourage qualified applicants to come to their program. Even the 'top' programs know that they will have to go down on their rank list to fill their spots, some deeper than others. If you have 10 spots, you're not going to limit your recruiting phone calls to the top 10 candidates, because many of them are going to pick other programs. There may be 50 candidates that you would be more than happy to have in your program. So you call all 50 and say "We'd love to have you here." And depending on how the market shakes out on Match Day, hopefully 10 of them will choose your program.

Am I just being too naive?
Atsai said:
Atsai said:


My first attempt at putting two different messages together. It didn't work well. :( If there's a way to do it right, I'd appreciate a PM.

I think you're both right even though your posts seem to conflict.

I would be happy to train almost every candidate I interview and I tell them that. I'm not being disingenuous, I'm giving them feedback that they seem to want. Having done this for a while, I'm pretty sure that most will match. If I'm of that opinion for a particular candidate, I say so.

I don't make promises, tell her she's ranked to match or close a deal early, because we do our list after the last interview. But if a candidates application is so outstanding that I think it very likely that he'll be ranked above our traditional lowest matching slot, I'll tell him it's probably his choice whether he comes to our program. I can say this only to a small proportion of our interviewees.

The reason I went to the trouble of writing this down is that the discussion on this forum seems much more angst ridden than on EM. I guess that's just the specialty "personality" since you guys are in the driver seat. EM candidates are not (neither are ED PDs).

My reaction from what you report about your interviews is that the Psych PDs are doing much more recruiting because they need to. Good news for you. :D :D Even so, I think most PDs are honest and what they say is what they mean. If they say they like you, that means they like you, nothing more. I'd make a similar evaluation about "good fit" and "competitive" and "would be happy to train you" statements."

Back to the game theory thing. It is to the PDs advantage to affect all of his candidates ranking of his program upwards. It is to your advantage to affect your ranking upwards on all or your programs lists. It to neither sides advantage to put their list in other than true order.

My point is that even if you are told "you are ranked to match" by an honest PD, that shouldn't affect your list. All it should mean is that if none of the programs above love you, you're going to this place. Attempts to influence your decision, either by "love" or "guilt" should be seen as what they are, coercion. If you want to go there take the bait. If not, be noncommital.

I also respectfully suggest that you stop trying to be junior shrinks and read things into the exact wording (this means you P). Sometimes an analysts cigar is just a cigar. ;) The rest is silence. :sleep: :sleep:
 

Poety

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but what if the cigar is really a phallic symbol and something I should consider for my ROL?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

thanks bkn!!!
 

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"you will rank very competitively on our final NRMP Rank Order List.*"From Emory today..

"We plan to rank you at the top of our Match list" from UW (seattle) a few days ago.

I think its all crap!!! I think they tell at least 30-50 people the exact same thing, but obviously onlt 8-12 people ate actually ranked to match, ie guaranteed a spot if they to rank that program #1.
 

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Just got a couple of emails from programs too...are we supposed to reply to them?
 

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2010 said:
"you will rank very competitively on our final NRMP Rank Order List.*"From Emory today..

"We plan to rank you at the top of our Match list" from UW (seattle) a few days ago.

I think its all crap!!! I think they tell at least 30-50 people the exact same thing, but obviously onlt 8-12 people ate actually ranked to match, ie guaranteed a spot if they to rank that program #1.
I've gotten some like that too, plus one program offered to pay for a second visit :eek: I don't quite know how to respond, so I'm not going to until I finish all of my interviews. I couldn't honestly give a program an idea of how I plan to rank them until I finish my interviews anyway, and I don't want to write a BS reply just for the sake of replying.

Besides the stress of traveling (flying is no fun anymore) and the stress of trying to figure out which program I like the best, I'm not really stressing out too much over the match. I've liked everywhere I've interviewed so far, for differing reasons, so even if I don't get my top choice, I'll most likely end up at a program I like.
 

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2010 said:
"you will rank very competitively on our final NRMP Rank Order List.*"From Emory today..

"We plan to rank you at the top of our Match list" from UW (seattle) a few days ago.

I think its all crap!!! I think they tell at least 30-50 people the exact same thing, but obviously onlt 8-12 people ate actually ranked to match, ie guaranteed a spot if they to rank that program #1.
2010, I think that's probably an unnecessarily antagonistic stance to adopt. (And i'm not just writing this post because I think Deb Cowley is just about one of the coolest PD's I've met so far.)

As I've written in these fora before (and as BKN has also written in an earlier postings), the number of candidates that a PD would love to have in her program probably far outnumbers the number of actual slots. So a PD with 10 open spots telling 50 candidates "we would love to have you here" is not necessarily lying out of her ass. Of course there are no guarantees with such a statement, because whether you ultimately match to that particular program depends on the demand functions of the other 49 candidates. The statement "we will be ranking you highly" is similarly a fuzzy statement. If, say, last year the PD had to go down to #15 on her rank list to fill 8 spots, then if she ranks you #15 and tells you "we will be ranking you highly" or even, "you will be ranked to match", neither of those statements would necessarily be a baldfaced lie -- because, from the PD's perspective, historically, someone ranked in the top 15 has a pretty good chance of matching there. There are no guarantees, of course, but just about the only statement a PD could make with any kind of guarantee would be something like "we have 10 intern spots, and we will be ranking you in the top 10, which guarantees that you will match here [conditional on you ranking us highly as well]". It's my guess, however, that few applicants get that kind of post-interview feedback, and that most qualified candidates will get the "we would love to have you here" or "we will be ranking you favorably".

-AT.
 

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Just got the feedback I was hoping for - and have gotten a total of 4 emails today from programs :) Feeling much better now about a good match! :)
 

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Got a handwritten card from the PD at one of my top choices and he said a lot of very nice things. Very nice touch and definitely worth a few points in my book. No feedback from my other interviews yet.
 

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Handwritten from PD - sounds excellent Manc! Congratulations! :)
 

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just out of curiosity, is it common practice for PDs to send notice to candidates they rank highly? I guess what I'm really asking is, should I not get my hopes up if I don't hear anything from a program of interest.
 
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jschwartz said:
just out of curiosity, is it common practice for PDs to send notice to candidates they rank highly? I guess what I'm really asking is, should I not get my hopes up if I don't hear anything from a program of interest.
Many programs do indicate interest in some candidates, but there are definitely some programs who have a policy not to contact any applicants. Also, many of the calls/letters come in January, when programs know you are down to the wire with decision-making.
 

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as Willow eluded to, feedback should start rolling in this month, so I'm bumping to see how everyone is fairing (well I hope!)

I've heard back from 2 programs so far, but its been quiet otherwise. :sleep:
 

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I've received replies to all of the follow-up emails that I've sent so far. Also some unprompted emails, but no letters or phone calls. No specific numbers or promises. The only exception is Stanford, which doesn't provide the PD's email. Has anyone else received feedback from Stanford?

Sorry Poety, I didn't apply to U of F, so I can't help there.
 

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i have applied mostly to south cal, got a complementary email today from harbor ucla, but no where else.... dunno whether it's good or bad
 

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Got a handwritten card (front and back) from Dr. Thrall at Duke! Her personal touches are an absolute asset to the Duke program!
 

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mosche said:
Got a handwritten card (front and back) from Dr. Thrall at Duke! Her personal touches are an absolute asset to the Duke program!

WTF Mosche? I think yer doing people on interview day to sleep yer way to the top - I know whats up with you ;) :laugh:
 

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mosche said:
Got a handwritten card (front and back) from Dr. Thrall at Duke! Her personal touches are an absolute asset to the Duke program!

clearly you are NOT sleeping ......



slut :p :oops: :sleep:
 

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mosche said:
Got a handwritten card (front and back) from Dr. Thrall at Duke! Her personal touches are an absolute asset to the Duke program!

Dr. Thrall is great!

But, OMG Mosche, that is so friggin "white collar" of her! Typical Duke! How can you stand it????? ;)
 

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banannie said:
Dr. Thrall is great!

But, OMG Mosche, that is so friggin "white collar" of her! Typical Duke! How can you stand it????? ;)
Even "white collars" will, occasionally, go unnoticed when adorned with a "Versace neck tie". :cool:

BTW, I did think that the Duke Med. students were the "Best Dressed" of all the schools where I interviewed! :thumbup:
 

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mosche said:
Even "white collars" will, occasionally, go unnoticed when adorned with a "Versace neck tie". :cool:

BTW, I did think that the Duke Med. students were the "Best Dressed" of all the schools where I interviewed! :thumbup:

I got the same note from Dr. Thrall. Even her handwriting is nice. Mosche, I was seriously wondering what you meant by your white-collar remark. A blue collar medical student seems an oxymoron to me. What concretely bothered you about the Duke crowd? Did they order Chimay rather than Bud Light? Do they not say "ain't" enough? Did they look at you funny when you burped?
 

mosche

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nortomaso said:
I got the same note from Dr. Thrall. Even her handwriting is nice. Mosche, I was seriously wondering what you meant by your white-collar remark. A blue collar medical student seems an oxymoron to me. What concretely bothered you about the Duke crowd? Did they order Chimay rather than Bud Light? Do they not say "ain't" enough? Did they look at you funny when you burped?


What's an oxy-moron? Are you be sayin' that I be havin' zits? :laugh:
 

Hurricane

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nortomaso said:
Did they order Chimay rather than Bud Light?
Well color me white collar then. I hate that mass consumption swill that passes for beer. I'll take a good microbrew over a Bud Light any day.

Anyway, I got a similar letter from Dr. Thrall. I thought it was very nice :)
 

Poety

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Got a phone call from two different programs today (to remain nameless, located in the south, pm me if interested and if I trust you I'll tell you who they are :smuggrin: :laugh: )
 

2010

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I think she must have been writing for the past 5 days straight!! I got the same thing, as did some other people I know.
I guess she sent out 20-40 of them--
It was nice anyway, but I was not impressed by her hand writing, it looked like a Junior highschool girl wrote it!

BTW-Mosche---is she your new "main crush"
 

mosche

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2010 said:
BTW-Mosche---is she your new "main crush"
Absolutely! Although I have to admit that she's a "bit too female for me"! :laugh: So it won't last long!
 
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