Postbac Options/GPA Questions - AMCAS & TMDSAS

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AggieEngineer

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Ok, so here is my situation. I want to pursue medical school. A few years back I graduated with a BS in Electrical Engineering from Texas A&M. I completed the degree in 3 years, 3.075 cumulative / 3.35 major GPA. I rushed through school way too fast, I was arrogant and more concerned with finishing than grades. Some idiot in my head actually thought grades didn't matter. I was a good student though, had a dozen recommendations for grad school. Professionally I am doing well, making six figures, but I'm bored and really really want to shift gears and move towards bioengineering and medicine. My current plan is to pursue a second BS in Biochemistry and then on to a MD/PhD program from there. Even if my GPA weren't an issue I'd still pursue a second BS because I need the coursework and knowledge in life sciences which I lack.

I have already been accepted back in Texas A&M as a postbac student for Biochemistry. I am also considering UT-Austin.

Ok, so here's the bottom line. I am concerned about whether I should go back to Texas A&M or instead go with UT-Austin. If I go back to TAMU I will keep my existing cumulative GPA. After completing the minimum requirements for the second BS, even with a perfect 4.0 on all future coursework, my cumulative GPA will only be raised to a 3.44. If I stick around for an extra year beyond the requirements and take a bunch of uncessary classes I can bump that to a 3.52, which seems pointless.

On the other hand, if I go to another school (like UT-Austin), I will start with a clean GPA... or will I??

What is it that the medical schools consider? Do they recalculate your GPA based on ALL your undergraduate coursework at ALL institutions?

Actually, a large number of hours for my EE degree were transferred from a community college. If those are factored in my overall undegraduate GPA goes up considerably to a 3.34. The second BS would take that to well over a 3.5 with just the min requirements. My science-based coursework would end up around a 3.8/3.9

On some other threads I have read a little about the AMCAS and that the GPA is broken up by undergrad, postbac, and graduate coursework. In my case what does this mean? Would the coursework for the second BS be considered "postbac" and calculated and listed separately from the existing coursework which would appear as "undergrad"?

Some schools also don't use the AMCAS. A lot of schools in TX use the TMDSAS. Does anybody know if they treat grades differently?

I would appreciate y'all's insight. Bottom line, do you think it would be better to pursue the second BS at a different school or does it not matter?

From the academic perspective, academic in the sense of quality of education, I would prefer A&M over UT. In my opinion their life sciences dept is better, their biomedical engineering dept is better, and they have an actual medical school as well. Overall I think I would have access to a better array of classes and undergrad research opportunities than at UT. Plus I bleed maroon 🙂 But I'm concerned about the GPA. If I can get a clean slate with UT that seems a better path.

Also, what is the opinion of graduate school? I have read varying opinions but nonetheless would like to pose the question again as my case is not the same as most others from what I can tell. After a year of postbac in Biochemistry I would have enough fundamentals to then be a good candidate for a MS in Biomedical Engineering or even an MS in EE with a focus on Systems Biology. For example see http://www.ee.columbia.edu/pages/research/systems_biology/. (Columbia actually offers this via distance as well.) Similar courses exist at TAMU as well, but I'm using Columbia as an example because they have the "systems biology" track laid out more plainly for discussion purposes. So, in theory, I could pursue the second BS and an MS at the same time. Because of the nature of the BS coursework, things have to be taken in a certain order, etc., some semesters will be very light. I figure it would take me an extra year beyond the second BS to get an MS as well. The question is though, would this help with medical school or would it not matter at all? What if my intent is a MD/PhD program?

Anyway, sorry for the long post, I appreciate anybody's informed thoughts.
 
1. On the other hand, if I go to another school (like UT-Austin), I will start with a clean GPA... or will I??

2. What is it that the medical schools consider? Do they recalculate your GPA based on ALL your undergraduate coursework at ALL institutions?
Would the coursework for the second BS be considered "postbac" and calculated and listed separately from the existing coursework which would appear as "undergrad"?

3. Also, what is the opinion of graduate school? I have read varying opinions but nonetheless would like to pose the question again as my case is not the same as most others from what I can tell. After a year of postbac in Biochemistry I would have enough fundamentals to then be a good candidate for a MS in Biomedical Engineering or even an MS in EE with a focus on Systems Biology. The question is though, would this help with medical school or would it not matter at all? What if my intent is a MD/PhD program?

1. You will never again start with a "clean" GPA, unless you go the TMDAS route and your "bad" grades are (I think) at least 10 years old. Regardless, for AMCAS, EVER grade you have ever received is included and averaged to arrive at your cGPA and BCPM GPA.

2. Every grade ever received is included. They are broken out by year, i.e. fresh, soph, junior, senior, postbacc. They shown separately, but your cumulative and science grades are the ones that are important (and show up on your primary application cover sheet along with your MCAT score.)

3. Graduate school GPA is generally considered to not be very impactful in the application process. If you want to go to medical school, even for an MD/PhD program, you would do better to rehab your undergraduate GPA.

Sounds like you should go to A&M to do that, if I read your feelings correctly.
 
Pons is correct. Although your new degree will show up as post-bacc on your AMCAS, it will also go into your cumulative undergraduate GPA, as will your community college credits.

I had community college credits in addition to credits from two different bachelors degrees. As I said, it all goes into the cumulative undergraduate GPA, but they also see how it's broken down. Hence, if you do really well on this post-bacc - they will definitely see it.
 
...but your cumulative and science grades are the ones that are important (and show up on your primary application cover sheet along with your MCAT score.)

On the AMCAS what is considered to be "science"? Would engineering classes get rolled in with natural science classes? What about maths?
 
On the AMCAS what is considered to be "science"? Would engineering classes get rolled in with natural science classes? What about maths?


AMCAS BCPM is "science", and means Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math. Here is the list of AMCAS BCPM courses as of 2009: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026

A simple google search of AMCAS BCPM will probably turn up a more recent list, but I doubt it's changed much in that time.
 
First I know how much it sucks that your old gpa haunts you, I took courses in high school at a local community college that counted for my gpa, totally sucked.

I also want to caution you against getting a full BS in biochem which will be a waste of time unless you absolutely love love love school. the pre-reques for medical school are strict enough that if you do them you will be set for what you need to know. I did better than some of my science majoring classmates in some of the basic science courses, b/c what they teach you in medical school and the way they teach you it is very very different then the way most chem/bio majors learn the material. Dont waste the time and $ doing the full BS in biochem.

I'd also be very cautious about the MD/PhD route, it is competitive in terms of gpa/mcat and i think you already know that your gpa will make it challenging to get into any allo school MD program. If you failed any courses you can retake them for an average of the grades which definitely helps, but other then that you are going to have an uphill battle to repair that gpa.

1. While taking normal sci pre-requs you probably should take some courses just to boost your gpa. Any A's will help, you must realize that anything under an A- will severely hurt you because it increases your total amount of credits while not giving you a gpa boost- ie it makes it even harder to repair. So take easy course you are SURE you can get an A in. Total cum 3.4gpa seems like a very low minimium. 3.6 is more of a solid number though.

2. If you are dead set on MD/PhD... which is crazy imo 🙂 I would first talk to some MD/PhDers and then talk to some who dropped the PhD and just finished MD (a good amount of people do this) and really get a balanced looked at the pro's and cons. If you are still set, while doing your pre-requs you should do research research research and get some pubs. This could help you offset your slightly lower GPA.

3. Kill the MCAT, take a review course and don't go cheap, put your life and soul into test. I'd honestly ideally shoot for 34+ if you are dead set on allo, osteo you might get away with something a little lower 27-30ish.

You have a long long road in front of you, but good luck, one step at a time.
 
On the AMCAS what is considered to be "science"? Would engineering classes get rolled in with natural science classes? What about maths?

It's up to you to decide what is BCPM and what isn't. The worst that happens is you say it's BCPM, they say it's not while verifying your primary app, and they change it to ENGR. There are some engineering classes that clearly fall outside the realm of what "could" be BCPM (I'm looking at you, Elements of Jet Propulsion Design.) However, a lot of other classes could realistically be lumped in with math or physics. For me, I usually considered classes I made A's in to be better candidates for trying to include with BCPM than non-A classes. YMMV. Intro to Mechanics? Sure (physics). Engineering Analysis? Sure (math). Heat Transfer Theory? Sure (physics), but I didn't because I made my only C in that class. A careful reading of the course description in your catalog and comparing that to the FAQ and instructions that AAMC posts will help you decide.
 
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