Postdoc Invitation Thread (2021-2022)

[WisNeuro]

Random question..... for 2 year post doc positions.... is it possible to complete 1 year at a site and then transfer to a different site to complete the 2nd year?

I wouldn't plan on this. At least for my past neuro postdoc sites, we would not consider applicants who had started or completed another fellowship.

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[bluecolourskies]

I am in the same position. I applied to four, two already said no. From the remaining rest, one is part-time, the other one is very far from my family. I have been devastated and an emotional roller-coaster. I am so burnt out by my internship and stressed by my internship and now this. I am so not doing well. I really hope there is a phase II...

I am in the same boat!
Rejected from 2 after interviewing, one said I am at the top of their wait list so if their initial offers get declined, I’ll offered a spot, one place I interviewed at I realized I didn’t like it and wouldn’t be happy doing the work (mostly therapy with 1 eval per month, and I want to be assessment focused).

Really stressful not knowing where I will be working or living in 6 months :/

 

[SchoolPsych4]

I am in the same boat!
Rejected from 2 after interviewing, one said I am at the top of their wait list so if their initial offers get declined, I’ll offered a spot, one place I interviewed at I realized I didn’t like it and wouldn’t be happy doing the work (mostly therapy with 1 eval per month, and I want to be assessment focused).

Really stressful not knowing where I will be working or living in 6 months :/

We all will be okay. I hope we can take a break and put self-care first. I'm burnt out.

 

[modestmousktr]

Welp, the postdoc process has not gone as planned. My goal is a clinical child postdoc with opportunities for research and/or trauma specialization if possible. I applied to 7 sites that I felt were good/great fits within my geographical limitations. I got interviews from all 7 sites. However, I've received notification from 5 of the 7 sites that the positions have been filled prior to the UND. Out of the remaining two, one I would readily accept if I happen to be offered the position, and the other I'm quite unsure about after the interview.

All to say, I may very well end up going into "phase II" of the postdoc application process. Does anyone have personal experience or know of someone who was in this position? How often do programs actually update their UPPD profiles after the UND to reflect unfilled positions? I'm just trying to have a game plan in place for after Monday if needed.

Also in a similar position, but I’m starting to sort of like it (after feeling confused and hopeless for ~2 weeks, haha). Heard from 3/7 sites prior to UND that I was not selected, and still awaiting four. But, in the last month or so I’ve realized my quality of life outside of work is actually more important to me than getting “perfect fit” training. So, of the four sites I’m waiting to hear back from, although it’s hard, I’ve decided to only say yes to one, and who knows if they will even offer 😬😬😬.

Just having faith in the universe at this point that additional post docs will open up after UND in the areas I really want to settle down in, or, that I’ll find a job before September where I can get licensed.

At least unlike internship we can all graduate regardless of if we receive an offer for post doc or not! Also, hello from another child trauma applicant 👋 👋 👋 ♥️

 

[Mojito_15]

We all will be okay. I hope we can take a break and put self-care first. I'm burnt out.

This isn't a "break" per se- but I worked as a professor for 4 years in between my internship and applying for postdoc (took me awhile to defend my dissertation and be ready to move on) and I got a great offer to my top postdoc choice last week in integrated behavioral health! So worst comes to worst, taking some time and getting some experiences after internship & before doing your postdoc can work out.

 

[foreverbull]

Folks who are worried and/or those who don’t get an offer for an official postdoc: I feel you. I initially applied to 8 competitive sites, had 5 interviews (two that I thought went extremely well), and zero offers. On the UND I got call after call saying they picked someone else (they should change that policy to email you if you’re not extended an offer!).

I had to regroup and start applying to unofficial postdoc jobs (mostly clinical job postings that said they offered supervision for doctoral-level clinicians). A few months after internship ended and several in-person interviews later, I got multiple offers for jobs. The pay was egregiously low for the COL/area, but I got through that year and moved on with a new skill set and became licensed soon after.

You’ll get through it!

 

[bluemirage92]

Also in a similar position, but I’m starting to sort of like it (after feeling confused and hopeless for ~2 weeks, haha). Heard from 3/7 sites prior to UND that I was not selected, and still awaiting four. But, in the last month or so I’ve realized my quality of life outside of work is actually more important to me than getting “perfect fit” training. So, of the four sites I’m waiting to hear back from, although it’s hard, I’ve decided to only say yes to one, and who knows if they will even offer 😬😬😬.

Just having faith in the universe at this point that additional post docs will open up after UND in the areas I really want to settle down in, or, that I’ll find a job before September where I can get licensed.

At least unlike internship we can all graduate regardless of if we receive an offer for post doc or not! Also, hello from another child trauma applicant 👋 👋 👋 ♥️

Sad, yet comforted, to be in the same boat with you!

 

[bluecolourskies]

This isn't a "break" per se- but I worked as a professor for 4 years in between my internship and applying for postdoc (took me awhile to defend my dissertation and be ready to move on) and I got a great offer to my top postdoc choice last week in integrated behavioral health! So worst comes to worst, taking some time and getting some experiences after internship & before doing your postdoc can work out.

Thank you so much for sharing your story!!! This gave me so much hope!!

For the post doc, did you go through the UPPD “official” system? and for working as a professor, did you just go to the careers page of local university websites?

 

[Mojito_15]

Thank you so much for sharing your story!!! This gave me so much hope!!

For the post doc, did you go through the UPPD “official” system? and for working as a professor, did you just go to the careers page of local university websites?

I did go through the UPPD "official" system for my postdoc. For the professor job, I put out word to colleagues at internship for the state that I was looking to live in, got on some listserves, and applied everywhere that said an ABD would be considered. I landed a full time Non-Tenure Track position where I've been until I defended last summer and I took this year to apply for postdocs and study for the EPPP. It also was nice to really be able to focus my postdoc search because I already had an OK job, so I wasn't desperate necessarily just to get somewhere, like I felt like I was at the end of internship.

 

[bluecolourskies]

I did go through the UPPD "official" system for my postdoc. For the professor job, I put out word to colleagues at internship for the state that I was looking to live in, got on some listserves, and applied everywhere that said an ABD would be considered. I landed a full time Non-Tenure Track position where I've been until I defended last summer and I took this year to apply for postdocs and study for the EPPP. It also was nice to really be able to focus my postdoc search because I already had an OK job, so I wasn't desperate necessarily just to get somewhere, like I felt like I was at the end of internship.

Hi sorry for another question but what is ABD? I assume it means non licensed person?

And seriously, reading your story has given me more hope than anything lately. Even my husband noticed I was in a better mood because I was very mopey and also felt like a “failure” to him. (trying to defuse from this thought!)

 

[earnadegree123]

ABD is someone who has completed all graduate school requirements except dissertation. ABD = "All But Dissertation."

 

[Mojito_15]

Hi sorry for another question but what is ABD? I assume it means non licensed person?

And seriously, reading your story has given me more hope than anything lately. Even my husband noticed I was in a better mood because I was very mopey and also felt like a “failure” to him. (trying to defuse from this thought!)

You are NOT a failure! But I totally understand, I felt like a failure for a long time for being behind where I felt like I was "supposed" to be. It's never too late though, not everyone's path is linear, and that's ok. Interviewing and being able to talk about all of my experiences, even those that were non-traditional, as a strength was very empowering. You will find somewhere that's right for you!

 

[RainbowCat]

Also in a similar position, but I’m starting to sort of like it (after feeling confused and hopeless for ~2 weeks, haha). Heard from 3/7 sites prior to UND that I was not selected, and still awaiting four. But, in the last month or so I’ve realized my quality of life outside of work is actually more important to me than getting “perfect fit” training. So, of the four sites I’m waiting to hear back from, although it’s hard, I’ve decided to only say yes to one, and who knows if they will even offer 😬😬😬.

Just having faith in the universe at this point that additional post docs will open up after UND in the areas I really want to settle down in, or, that I’ll find a job before September where I can get licensed.

At least unlike internship we can all graduate regardless of if we receive an offer for post doc or not! Also, hello from another child trauma applicant 👋 👋 👋 ♥️

I arrived to the same place, and am happy to read your perspective as I have been spiraling and second guessing all of my decisions today. It was a good reminder for me to read. I initially had a list of 8-9 sites, and cut it down to 5. I have been working non-stop, missing life moments, sacrificing things that bring me joy for what...5 years now? As we all have I'm sure. And I am ready to feel normal and have relationships and hobbies and be able to afford things. Some of my "perfect training sites" were in high COL areas with of course low salaries, or just in areas of the country I have no interest in living in. So I'm with you, bring it on universe!

 

[parametric]

Good luck today, UND friends!!

 

[bluecolourskies]

One "we offered the position to someone else and they accepted" and one wait list.
Looking up cool jobs to apply for! I love everyone's words of encouragement and support, and glad to know I am not the only one having trouble with the process- I also fully believe we are all qualified candidates! I do wonder though- my internship is not over until late August, and perhaps I was passed over in favor of applicants who could start right in September.
But in the end, does that matter? Upwards and onwards!

 

[summerbabe]

Some of my "perfect training sites" were in high COL areas with of course low salaries, or just in areas of the country I have no interest in living in.

This was something that I struggled with during the internship and postdoc process. Ultimately, I ended up prioritizing geography and personal factors when push came to shove and have zero regrets that I didn't 'chase' something that would have conflicted with those priorities.

Good luck and hope you (and others) got some good news today!

 

[bluecolourskies]

Heard back from last site, and have officially been rejected from all sites I interviewed at!

Already started the job/informal post doc hunt.

 

[SchoolPsych4]

I got rejected from everywhere I applied to. I wish I knew what I was doing wrong...

 

[bluecolourskies]

I got rejected from everywhere I applied to. I wish I knew what I was doing wrong...

I know exactly how you feel I thought my internship experience was so solid, along with all the other aspects of my CV. I was told I interviewed strong. It really could be just a bad year for applications in terms of competitiveness.

 

[R. Matey]

Heard back from last site, and have officially been rejected from all sites I interviewed at!

Already started the job/informal post doc hunt.

There are lots of unlisted formal postdocs out there, especially in UCCs. I'd encourage you folks to check there. I got one in a primary care clinic with a large private hospital org and it's going pretty well!

 

[niceman]

I got rejected from everywhere I applied to. I wish I knew what I was doing wrong...

I assume that you are from a school psych program based on your name, which can be a challenge to transition into clinical settings to begin with due to a variety of reasons. I am sorry this is the reality now and hopefully it will change for the better. Some strategies that may work include applying widely, applying to school psych-friendly clinical sites (if this is still your goal), identifying fits, and highlighting transferrable skills using a more clinical lens. So many sites posted their unfilled positions so there are definitely plenty of opportunities.

 

[bluecolourskies]

Does anyone have experience with Mississippi State Hospital, Strong Integrated Behavioral Health in Oregon, or Houston Methodist Behavioral Health? Thinking of applying to them.

 

[R. Matey]

Strong Integrated Behavioral Health in Oregon

I've generally heard good things about them. It does come with all the trappings of a PP postdoc though.

 

[bluecolourskies]

I've generally heard good things about them. It does come with all the trappings of a PP postdoc though.

Oo could you speak more of this (what to watch out for in a PP post doc).

From what I have heard, there is generally less emphasis on training, so trying to suss out how they respond to a request for more training/feedback or a post doc not practicing at the level of a seasoned clinician. Do they get mad and tell you that you violated the contract? Are they understanding? etc.

I also found this thread in case someone else needs it too! Pros and Cons of Private Practice for Postdoc Year

 

[R. Matey]

From what I have heard, there is generally less emphasis on training, so trying to suss out how they respond to a request for more training/feedback or a post doc not practicing at the level of a seasoned clinician. Do they get mad and tell you that you violated the contract? Are they understanding? etc

I'll send you a PM.

 

[Istilldontknow]

I put all my eggs in one basket, and it paid off! I matched to a forensic based post-doc. I know it's going to be very intense, but I am ready for the challenge

 

[SchoolPsych4]

For those of you who did not get any offers (like me), any luck with interviews?

 

[SchoolPsych4]

I am very surprised how some really competitive sites (e.g., Standford, USC, UC Davis) have unfilled positions. I would think they would receive many qualified applicants who would want to go there for their postdocs...

 

[bluecolourskies]

I am very surprised how some really competitive sites (e.g., Standford, USC, UC Davis) have unfilled positions. I would think they would receive many qualified applicants who would want to go there for their postdocs...

Maybe people don’t want to move to California due to the COVID restrictions? My friend who lives in Cali said people have to wear masks even at the beach or get fined.

 

[modestmousktr]

I am very surprised how some really competitive sites (e.g., Standford, USC, UC Davis) have unfilled positions. I would think they would receive many qualified applicants who would want to go there for their postdocs...

I honestly didn’t apply to Stanford or places in cities with high cost of living, even if the programs had great training and seemed like a good fit! People may be especially mindful of things like that given COVID’s impact on the economy?

 

[niceman]

Those programs have no shortage of applicants (before or during COVID) so the applicants made their decisions not to accept after the interview process. Postdoc programs also tend to interview fewer applicants than internship programs so that may play a role too. Except for Davis, USC and Stanford has unfilled positions every year. USC's postdocs last for 2 years, which can be a turnoff. Although they are technically specialty postdocs, doing those for 2 years isn't necessary (unlike neuropsych) and doesn't make financial sense.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Mod note: Corrected the typo in the thread title

 

[WisNeuro]

Mod note: Corrected the typo in the thread title

OMG thank you, that had been bothering me every time I saw the thread bumped.

 

[WisNeuro]

Those programs have no shortage of applicants (before or during COVID) so the applicants made their decisions not to accept after the interview process. Postdoc programs also tend to interview fewer applicants than internship programs so that may play a role too. Except for Davis, USC and Stanford has unfilled positions every year. USC's postdocs last for 2 years, which can be a turnoff. Although they are technically specialty postdocs, doing those for 2 years isn't necessary (unlike neuropsych) a

It can make sense for the academic/research minded people for some postdocs.

 

[SchoolPsych4]

Those programs have no shortage of applicants (before or during COVID) so the applicants made their decisions not to accept after the interview process. Postdoc programs also tend to interview fewer applicants than internship programs so that may play a role too. Except for Davis, USC and Stanford has unfilled positions every year. USC's postdocs last for 2 years, which can be a turnoff. Although they are technically specialty postdocs, doing those for 2 years isn't necessary (unlike neuropsych) and doesn't make financial sense.

I get why USC would have unfilled positions, but why Davis or Standford? It sounds like even before the pandemic they did not fill their positions. I guess they also rather have their positions go unfilled rather than accepting someone maybe less qualified? I don't know...

 

[niceman]

It can make sense for the academic/research minded people for some postdocs.

Not these ones. These are non-research heavy clinical postdocs and most likely you can achieve the same goals (e.g., clinical faculty) after a one-year one. But some AMCs started rolling these two-year postdocs and insist that they make sense. We'll see if this trend makes any difference in the future.

 

[niceman]

I get why USC would have unfilled positions, but why Davis or Standford? It sounds like even before the pandemic they did not fill their positions. I guess they also rather have their positions go unfilled rather than accepting someone maybe less qualified? I don't know...

You can refer to the thread about internship and supervision. Postdocs are expected to function/learn to function at an independent level and give supervisors "less work" so some sites may prefer not to have a less qualified postdoc. At the same time, many sites are generally motivated to fill positions when funding has been assigned. Work-life balance and quality of training/opportunities may also come into play.

 

[SchoolPsych4]

Those programs have no shortage of applicants (before or during COVID) so the applicants made their decisions not to accept after the interview process. Postdoc programs also tend to interview fewer applicants than internship programs so that may play a role too. Except for Davis, USC and Stanford has unfilled positions every year. USC's postdocs last for 2 years, which can be a turnoff. Although they are technically specialty postdocs, doing those for 2 years isn't necessary (unlike neuropsych) and doesn't make financial sense.

Thank you for all your response! Do you believe the sites get the same number of applicants in the second round? Meaning after UND?

 

[electricopal]

For neuropsych post doc— does it matter where you did your internship (neuro track)? In other words, are post docs more likely to take you if you did internship year there?

 

[niceman]

Thank you for all your response! Do you believe the sites get the same number of applicants in the second round? Meaning after UND?

Probably not since there are a smaller pool of applicants and more postdoc positions (before UND) than previous years.

 

[WisNeuro]

For neuropsych post doc— does it matter where you did your internship (neuro track)? In other words, are post docs more likely to take you if you did internship year there?

Some sites yes, some no. Some have a philosophy that they want you to get more varied experience elsewhere between those two training stages. But, it's common enough that if you wanted to stay, you'd have a decent chance at a lot of places. Assuming you made a good impression.

 

[SchoolPsych4]

My internship is APPIC, but not APA accredited. I just got turned down for a postdoc position and was told the only reason was that my internship was not APA. This sucks (

 

[WisNeuro]

My internship is APPIC, but not APA accredited. I just got turned down for a postdoc position and was told the only reason was that my internship was not APA. This sucks (

That does suck, but it's mandatory in a lot of healthcare settings. One of the reasons we harp on it so much in the forums here.

 

[norbert44]

My internship is APPIC, but not APA accredited. I just got turned down for a postdoc position and was told the only reason was that my internship was not APA. This sucks (

Really sorry you are having this experience I have to ask though, did no one at your program inform you of the repercussions of doing a non-APA accredited internship? If so seems like a massive disservice to the students.

 

[SchoolPsych4]

Did anyone apply to Kaiser Permanente?

 

[Mojito_15]

Really sorry you are having this experience I have to ask though, did no one at your program inform you of the repercussions of doing a non-APA accredited internship? If so seems like a massive disservice to the students.

I will say- it's pretty hard for school psychs to get APA accredited internships. I got one, but I applied to more than 20 accredited sites and went to the only one that ranked me.

 

[SchoolPsych4]

Can programs see your application right away when you submit it on APPA CAS?

 

[FastBereit]

I will say- it's pretty hard for school psychs to get APA accredited internships. I got one, but I applied to more than 20 accredited sites and went to the only one that ranked me.

While the rates of matching at an accredited internship are a little lower for school psych than for clinical or counseling, I would't say on the whole that it's wildly difficult. Looking at this year's match statistics (combined for phases 1 and 2; accounting for both PhD and PsyD), 86.1% of school psych doctoral students matched to accredited sites while 95.3% of clinical and 97.1% of counseling did. Anecdotally, I personally ranked 8 accredited positions in phase 1 and matched with my #3 (a clinical child/adolescent site).

Match Statistics - 2021 - Combined

Association of Psychology Postdoctoral and Internship Centers, Postdoc Interns, Psychology Internships, Psych Internship Matching - APPIC

appic.org

 

[foreverbull]

Can programs see your application right away when you submit it on APPA CAS?

I would assume so because I even had an unfinished/unsubmitted application in there that a training director contacted me about to check if I planned to complete it.