PhD/PsyD PostDocs for a Non-APA/APPIC Internship Applicant

[mgphd]

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Sigh. The struggle is real. I recently graduated from a APA accredited clinical psych program(phd). I just published my dissertation on a peer-review journal(yay!). Clinically I specialized in children and adolescents, research wise on Health Psych. BUT my internship was not APA/APPIC accredited.

Since January I have applied probably to a dozen places (reading the tiny letters making sure it DOES NOT require an APA internship; and hell, taking the risk on some). Nada. Have not heard back from one single place. Listserv, lyris, Indeed, Psycareers, APS, you name it. I am on it.

I would risk saying that about 90-95% of the clinical post docs require APA internship. On the other hand, the research ones do not. BUT, what about the training I would like to gain and the post doc hours for licensure needed?! Kind of unfair when you have to choose between whether to be licensed or not, because of an accreditation. It might as well become part of the standards in the Ethics Code!
Any suggestions?
Should I use a research position as a trampoline towards a clinical one?
Should I forget about getting a post doc and just work under the supervision of a licensed psych in order to gain my postdoctoral hours?

 

[deleted343839]

What kind of career are you aiming for?

Depending on what your state counts as "supervised experience," a clinical research postdoc could fulfill requirements for licensure. Some states are less restrictive when it comes to the nature of that experience.

 

[mgphd]

What kind of career are you aiming for?

Depending on what your state counts as "supervised experience," a clinical research postdoc could fulfill requirements for licensure. Some states are less restrictive when it comes to the nature of that experience.

I am currently aiming to develop my clinical skills in Health Psychology. Looking for a postdoc on primary care. Also on the research field continue with the topics of chronic disease.

The state I live at the moment does not require post-doc for licensure nor does it offer any sort of postdoc. But since I am not planning on staying here, I understand the need for a postdoc. Since except for 9 states I think, the rest require postdoctoral hours. Maybe you can also answer the question too. Once you take the EPPP (but no the Laws and Regulations test of the state) do this scores expire?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I would risk saying that about 90-95% of the clinical post docs require APA internship. On the other hand, the research ones do not. BUT, what about the training I would like to gain and the post doc hours for licensure needed?!

First off...congrats on publishing your dissertation! Next, the acred issue is tough to navigate. I know some academics who took research heavy positions and collected clinical hours over 2-3yrs. It depends on the state, so YMMV on the timeframe. A lot of it depends on what you want to do afterwards. Academia, therapy/clinical, etc?

 

[mgphd]

First off...congrats on publishing your dissertation! Next, the acred issue is tough to navigate. I know some academics who took research heavy positions and collected clinical hours over 2-3yrs. It depends on the state, so YMMV on the timeframe. A lot of it depends on what you want to do afterwards. Academia, therapy/clinical, etc?

Thanks! Thou it feels like this accomplishment has been overshadowed by the struggles of postdoc search and licensure. I was joking around saying that getting the PhD was a breeze compared to this hellish experience(not so much; but to give an idea how difficult this has become).

Yes, I need to establish a Plan A, B, C.
I REALLY want a clinical position, but, if all else fails, I also love research too. Hence, I can go with both, because I believe both offer the opportunity to formally train. What I do not want to do is fall on the rut (no offense to those who do) of working as staff psych or such, on something unrelated to what I want, in order to accrue hours. Sure, it serves boost work experience, but it is not as comprehensive as a postdoc would be.

Thanks for the support! If anyone happens to know of any postdoc on the field of health psychology(or pediatric psychology) without the need of an APA internship, I would gladly accept information about it. Or research postdoc on chronic illnesses too.

 

[deleted343839]

I think you will be able to get a clinical position in time, but the question is how to get from Point A to Point B most efficiently.

There are some primary care research fellowships that are funded by HRSA through a T32 mechanism. They are not specific to psychologists but it's possible you could do psychological research on the fellowship if affiliated faculty are able to supervise you. See, for example:

http://www.shepscenter.unc.edu/fellowships/nrsa-primary-care-research-fellowship/
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/gim/training/Training_Grants/Ford-Segal_trg_grant.html
https://www.bcm.edu/departments/fam...ne/education/primary-care-research-fellowship
http://www.med.nyu.edu/pediatrics/genpeds/clinical-education/fellowship-program/about-fellowship

 

[docma]

Thanks! Thou it feels like this accomplishment has been overshadowed by the struggles of postdoc search and licensure. I was joking around saying that getting the PhD was a breeze compared to this hellish experience(not so much; but to give an idea how difficult this has become).

Yes, I need to establish a Plan A, B, C.
I REALLY want a clinical position, but, if all else fails, I also love research too. Hence, I can go with both, because I believe both offer the opportunity to formally train. What I do not want to do is fall on the rut (no offense to those who do) of working as staff psych or such, on something unrelated to what I want, in order to accrue hours. Sure, it serves boost work experience, but it is not as comprehensive as a postdoc would be.

Thanks for the support! If anyone happens to know of any postdoc on the field of health psychology(or pediatric psychology) without the need of an APA internship, I would gladly accept information about it. Or research postdoc on chronic illnesses too.

You might look for settings where there is a AMC with an affliated VA. I know of psychologists who were hired into clinical research positions in serious mental illness tracks by the university (which did not have the strict APA requirement the VA does) and then worked on joint clinical projects with VA affiliation where there was clinical work (assessments) and clinical supervision.

 

[Ollie123]

If you have the research credentials and connections, its not hard to find a post-doc that will also provide clinical hours. However, it IS very hit or miss. Several T32s I looked at absolutely did not allow you to do that because of federal funding regulations requiring % effort devoted to research conflicting with state requirements regarding the number of hours needed for licensure. Others I applied and they just said "Oh - you're a clinician too? Do you want to do some clinical work while here?". The issue is that these are often negotiated with friends/colleagues of research mentors and it can be tough if you are explicitly looking for clinical training in a specific area. I'm in a generalist outpatient clinic right now just because that was where they had a high enough patient load to accommodate me (which I do actually like, but will want to transition to something more within my wheelhouse once I get enough hours).

Truthfully, you may have better luck pursuing other avenues. I'm not clear what your publication record is like, but if your dissertation is your only publication its very unlikely you'd be competitive for those at most places or in a position to negotiate. Cold contacting people may be worthwhile. There are more opportunities out there than many realize...

 

[mgphd]

You might look for settings where there is a AMC with an affliated VA. I know of psychologists who were hired into clinical research positions in serious mental illness tracks by the university (which did not have the strict APA requirement the VA does) and then worked on joint clinical projects with VA affiliation where there was clinical work (assessments) and clinical supervision.

Thanks. I wasn't entirely sure this was possible (like a loophole on VA).

 

[mgphd]

If you have the research credentials and connections, its not hard to find a post-doc that will also provide clinical hours. However, it IS very hit or miss. Several T32s I looked at absolutely did not allow you to do that because of federal funding regulations requiring % effort devoted to research conflicting with state requirements regarding the number of hours needed for licensure. Others I applied and they just said "Oh - you're a clinician too? Do you want to do some clinical work while here?". The issue is that these are often negotiated with friends/colleagues of research mentors and it can be tough if you are explicitly looking for clinical training in a specific area. I'm in a generalist outpatient clinic right now just because that was where they had a high enough patient load to accommodate me (which I do actually like, but will want to transition to something more within my wheelhouse once I get enough hours).

Truthfully, you may have better luck pursuing other avenues. I'm not clear what your publication record is like, but if your dissertation is your only publication its very unlikely you'd be competitive for those at most places or in a position to negotiate. Cold contacting people may be worthwhile. There are more opportunities out there than many realize...

So you say I'm better off with the "trampoline" technique? Aim to just get first as postdoc in a more general field rather than go into specifics?