Posting unpublished manuscript, am I playing with fire?

[PotGoblinsales10]

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In one of the experiences, I have a PDF of my unpublished manuscript from 2015 (would've been the first author) that I would like to include.

Basically, I will upload that PDF to a google drive account or a website and link it in the experiences to that ADCOMs have access to it. It is quite official looking and has the seal of the journal we were trying to send the manuscript to.

I have a gut feeling that I shouldn't do this.

What do you guys think?

What about AACOMAS, do they not recommend this in the awards/experiences section?

Mostly interested in ADCOMs (@Goro, @LizzyM @gyngyn and all else) replying, but all can advise.

 

[mistafab]

I think it is quite sad. You are basically saying “this COULD have been something.”

We all know people who live their life like that.

 

[PotGoblinsales10]

You are basically saying “this COULD have been something.”

I know I might be giving that impression, but the unpublished manuscript describes significant patient outcomes. It's not that it 'could have been something', its that it was something, but didn't get published.

It wasn't published because we attempted to submit it to a very prestigious publication company, and once they rejected, my PI decided to just focus on our other experiments who should've had a higher yield and we could just include our initial study there, but ultimately it all failed as we lost the grant funding in late 2015.

I feel just submitting that I did x,y,z without listing the manuscript may be lacking.

 

[Xyzcannon18]

I have a gut feeling that I shouldn't do this.

I feel like this answers your question in this particular situation.

 

[PotGoblinsales10]

I feel like this answers your question in this particular situation.

What should I do instead regarding this research experience?

 

[Lawpy]

What should I do instead regarding this research experience?

Just describe what you did, what you learned from it and how it was meaningful for you.

 

[chaim123]

I feel just submitting that I did x,y,z without listing the manuscript may be lacking.

I understand your feeling. However, we can all write up our work. What you are trying to do could be seen as implying that it was published in that journal, when it really wasn't.

Rather, if you feel necessary, mark it as a meaningful experience and talk about how what you actually did affected you. All my interviewers were much more interested in my hands on experience as opposed to what some journal did or did not think of it. They want to form their own opinions. I'll say I had 0 publications going into this cycle and am headed to a T10 in the fall.

 

[deleted480308]

What should I do instead regarding this research experience?

not cite papers that never made it. Your time with that PI is an experience, that's it

 

[Xyzcannon18]

What should I do instead regarding this research experience?

I would agree with what is written above. It seems you've worked hard on this and if you have, that comes out when you write usually.

 

[Goro]

In one of the experiences, I have a PDF of my unpublished manuscript from 2015 (would've been the first author) that I would like to include.

Basically, I will upload that PDF to a google drive account or a website and link it in the experiences to that ADCOMs have access to it. It is quite official looking and has the seal of the journal we were trying to send the manuscript to.

I have a gut feeling that I shouldn't do this.

What do you guys think?

What about AACOMAS, do they not recommend this in the awards/experiences section?

Mostly interested in ADCOMs (@Goro, @LizzyM @gyngyn and all else) replying, but all can advise.

No, just, no. No, no, no.

 

[noparking149]

Ask for your PI and fellow authors for approval; post on a preprint server like bioRxiv. Average turnaround is 24 hours and it is open access.

 

[Med Ed]

In one of the experiences, I have a PDF of my unpublished manuscript from 2015 (would've been the first author) that I would like to include.

Basically, I will upload that PDF to a google drive account or a website and link it in the experiences to that ADCOMs have access to it. It is quite official looking and has the seal of the journal we were trying to send the manuscript to.

I have a gut feeling that I shouldn't do this.

What do you guys think?

What about AACOMAS, do they not recommend this in the awards/experiences section?

Mostly interested in ADCOMs (@Goro, @LizzyM @gyngyn and all else) replying, but all can advise.

This is actually kind of adorable, in a way. It won't help your application, and in fact could only harm it, but the whole notion is still sort of cute.

 

[PotGoblinsales10]

Exactly what I was thinking. It would make you like a pompus a.s.s.

You were going to upload an unpublished manuscript with the seal of the journal that apparently rejected it? And you thought this was a good idea? That is unethical enough to get you rejected on this basis alone.

Ethically, I was going to tell the schools that it was unpublished. I wasn't going to omit that information. I just wanted to present the manuscript. But I guess I'll just talk about the experience since it appears unanimous that I shouldn't link to the manuscript.

 

[usernamesaredumb]

The seal of the journal is already unethical

That's not unethical.

 

[usernamesaredumb]

When it hasnt been accepted or published by the journal?

All he needs to do is state that's it's an unpublished draft. He said in the OP that he intends to do this.

 

[usernamesaredumb]

If it hasnt been accepted by the journal but posting a copy of the article with the seal of the journal?

If he has a copy w/o the seal of the journal, he should submit that, but if he doesnt:

"Dear admissions committee, attached is an unpublished manuscript of my research. The journal to which we submitted it chose not to publish it."

Why's this a huge deal?

In any case. I don't think there's really any point to attaching it to begin with. No admissions officer has any time or desire to read through an entire journal article, but it's not unethical.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

I almost won bingo one time. What could have been.

 

[Goro]

If he has a copy w/o the seal of the journal, he should submit that, but if he doesnt:

"Dear admissions committee, attached is an unpublished manuscript of my research. The journal to which we submitted it chose not to publish it."

Why's this a huge deal?

In any case. I don't think there's really any point to attaching it to begin with. No admissions officer has any time or desire to read through an entire journal article, but it's not unethical.

Ethics aside, someone doing this raises huge judgement issues.

BTW, "They don't have time to do X" is a statement rooted in ignorance of this process. Dangerously ignorant, as a matter of fact.

 

[chaim123]

I love when people questions adcoms about adcom decisions. It makes so much sense....

 

[usernamesaredumb]

I love when people questions adcoms about adcom decisions. It makes so much sense....

the concept of ethics extends beyond the opinions of medical school admissions officers

 

[Goro]

the concept of ethics extends beyond the opinions of medical school admissions officers

This is 100% correct, but also 100% irrelevant to this thread. The OP was thinking of doing something both stupid and unethical.

 

[cresume]

In your EC's, describe what you did specifically for the manuscript so that they know it was related to patient care, but you don't need to mention the manuscript.

Also, if you really want and if you already have the manuscript, why not find some other lower impact journal? I bet your PI would support you if you put in the legwork, modify the manuscript to fit a new template, and basically have it all ready to be submitted. And if you submit to another journal, you can say you have a manuscript under review

 

[AtlasSonOfIapetus]

I'm bookmarking and sending this to my brother. He hopes to become a doctor one day, and he has an ambitious plan to improve his sub-optimal odds of success, which I am trying to help him with. However, sometimes he's a bit too clever and ambitious for his own good. Sometimes he agonizes over his thoughts of the future. And in the end, there's a significant chance his plan may fail. This thread will help him figure out a backup plan for that worse case scenario. I also hope it will help him think less and do more.

My intention in posting is just to let you guys know that your help in this and other threads does not go unnoticed. Thank you.

 

[AtlasSonOfIapetus]

If he has a copy w/o the seal of the journal, he should submit that, but if he doesnt:

"Dear admissions committee, attached is an unpublished manuscript of my research. The journal to which we submitted it chose not to publish it."

Why's this a huge deal?

In any case. I don't think there's really any point to attaching it to begin with. No admissions officer has any time or desire to read through an entire journal article, but it's not unethical.

Whether or not it's truly unethical is a moot point because there's a significant chance that it would look unethical to some adcomm members. In fact, there's evidence in this thread that that is the case. The appearance of impropriety is almost as risky as impropriety itself.

 

[mydogmolly]

When you're mid-career and drafting your updated CV, are you doing to list this?

" My Dope Project as an Undergrad. Nature. 2015*.

*almost "

 

[mcloaf]

If the manuscript is completed and the plan to include the results with other work didn't work out...why haven't you submitted the manuscript to other journals?

 

[DameJulie]

I don't think most adcoms would read your unpublished manuscript. Summarizing that in your app will do a big favor for them.

Also, your PI might not be happy that you're passing around unpublished data.

 

[DokterMom]

The seal of the journal is already unethical

See the problem?

 

[PotGoblinsales10]

I'm bookmarking and sending this to my brother. He hopes to become a doctor one day, and he has an ambitious plan to improve his sub-optimal odds of success, which I am trying to help him with. However, sometimes he's a bit too clever and ambitious for his own good. Sometimes he agonizes over his thoughts of the future. And in the end, there's a significant chance his plan may fail. This thread will help him figure out a backup plan for that worse case scenario. I also hope it will help him think less and do more.

My intention in posting is just to let you guys know that your help in this and other threads does not go unnoticed. Thank you.

Definitely yes!! If it weren't for this thread and its respondants, I would've linked to the manuscript and probably gotten rejected for it.

I admit I did not see it as a problem intellectually, but I did feel it as a problem in my gut.

 

[nlax30]

Talk to your PI and try and submit to another journal.

Don’t list it under the guise of “potentially having been in Journal Xbut rejected.”

List and describe the research experience and you can always mention that you have an unpublished manuscript if they are interested but dont try and list it as a published work.

 

[AtlasSonOfIapetus]

Definitely yes!! If it weren't for this thread and its respondants, I would've linked to the manuscript and probably gotten rejected for it.

I admit I did not see it as a problem intellectually, but I did feel it as a problem in my gut.

Trust your gut and heart "brains" (yes, it's well-documented that both exist and improve decision-making, look it up if curious/skeptical). Malcolm Gladwell's book Blink is an enjoyable narrative review/perspective in favor of this.