potential for $$ in psychiatry

[kumar28]

What r the trends right now in psychiatry?? IM really interested in the field and was wondering the $$ potential for this field. Can you make a lot if you really work at it...anyone???

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[Psychotherapy]

Hi. If you go to the occupational outlook handbook, they will show you all of the earnings and projected earnings of all professions.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm

Psychiatrists are among the top 4 highest paid speciality physicians. Making 173,922 in less than two years of practice, and 180,000 with more than one year of experience. Hope this helps!

 

[Psychotherapy]

By the way, the projections for psychiatrists I just listed was for 2005. And has since increased.

 

[kumar28]

thanks psychotherapy! Do you know how to get a hold of the 2007 report...thanks

 

[sunlioness]

You know people keep telling me those stats. But I don't actually know anyone who makes that much. Except for child people.

 

[TheWowEffect]

You know people keep telling me those stats. But I don't actually know anyone who makes that much. Except for child people.

You must be kidding. Did you talk to people in academics or private sector? In fact, "private sector" psychiatrists make that money easily and much more if they work a few extra hours.

 

[Didactic]

Easily? then throw out some numbers or at least ranges w/ yrs of work exp?

 

[masterofnone]

The VA starts out at $180k plus benefits and vacation. I know several academic pyschiatrists that make low $200s and have met many private psychiatrists that make >$400k. I hear these "average" salaries and really have no idea where they come from. Even the local prisons pay about the average and this is with 30hr week schedule- add a few moonlighting shifts and your easily back to the mid-low $200s.

 

[Faebinder]

Well it really depends on how many hours you want to work. If you take on more weekend shift I suppose you will make more money.

 

[GatorMedMan]

Hi. If you go to the occupational outlook handbook, they will show you all of the earnings and projected earnings of all professions.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm

Psychiatrists are among the top 4 highest paid speciality physicians. Making 173,922 in less than two years of practice, and 180,000 with more than one year of experience. Hope this helps!

Top 4 huh? I guess if you exclude the dozens of specialties the link you provided doesn't mention. Sorry, but I have to call you out on this one. But out of all the specialties that begin with the letter "P" and end with the letters "sychiatry," we are number one.

 

[Solideliquid]

The VA starts out at $180k plus benefits and vacation. I know several academic pyschiatrists that make low $200s and have met many private psychiatrists that make >$400k. I hear these "average" salaries and really have no idea where they come from. Even the local prisons pay about the average and this is with 30hr week schedule- add a few moonlighting shifts and your easily back to the mid-low $200s.

Negative.

 

[masterofnone]

really? That is what I was told by an attending at the local VA. I don't mean to pass along untrue information- that is simply what was told to me by a practicing VA psychiatrist. What have you heard?

 

[drmaya]

Masterofnone is right..I heard the exact $180,000 starting salary at the VA too..but we both r talking about the same place looks like!It could be different in different cities/states though.Anyways,I sent you quite a few messages..but no replies..you r ignoring me..for whatever reason..LOL

 

[Solideliquid]

Can I ask which VA this was?

A colleague of mine recently accepted a position at the VA in Atlanta and started at $130K.

 

[masterofnone]

oklahoma city. i checked the .gov website and they list widely varied salaries with the top end being 175-205 depending on the position. the same dr. that told me the starting salary stated that it was highly negotiable and some va's (like wichita, ks) are offering some even larger packages which include $50k per year for loan repayment.

 

[189213]

My sense is that, like with every medical specialty, the amount of money you'll earn depends on the choices you make. These would likely include choosing 1.) an academic vs. private practice career path, 2.) whether to take medicare/medicaid/insurance vs. cash-only, 3.) what region of the country you settle in, 4.) whether you choose an urban or suburban or rural area in that region, 5.) how many hours you want to work, 6.) whether you wish to focus on psychopharmacology, psychotherapy, or some combination in your practice, 7.) whether you decide to accept money from pharmaceutical companies -- along with many other factors.

If you pick a certain combinations amongst these, you might make a considerable amount of money as a psychiatrist. If you pick the other options, you won't make as much (relative to other fields). Where you settle also makes a big difference, because cost of living varies widely depending on where you live.

When I was pondering this in the past, I looked at this Washington University website that has detailed information on each specialty:

http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin/resweb.nsf/WV/62353A93C5C35CB186256F850071BD86?OpenDocument

The salary data is from the AMA, although it dates to 2003. But I think the relative differences between specialties probably hasn't changed much.

I think the bottom line is, you can make more or less in any medical specialty based on the career choices you make. If I were you, I wouldn't think about how much money I might make in psychiatry, but rather how much money I feel I want/need to make in general (i.e., how important money is to my vision of my future life). But I do think most people would agree that those seeking money above all wouldn't think of psychiatry as their first choice.

My personal opinion: no matter how "little" you make as a doctor in this country, it's still way more than the average bus driver, teacher, or plumber -- so don't sweat it too much!

 

[michaelrack]

The salary for 40 hr/week psychiatry jobs for public entities (VA, community health centers, state psych hospitals) is $125-150 K plus benefits. The salary is higher if more than minimal call is involved. Salary is also often higher if you are in a leadership role such as medical director.
This is the salary range for the South, it's higher on the coasts.

 

[Psychotherapy]

"Top 4 huh? I guess if you exclude the dozens of specialties the link you provided doesn't mention. Sorry, but I have to call you out on this one. But out of all the specialties that begin with the letter "P" and end with the letters "sychiatry," we are number one."

I'm a bit confused at what your point was, or what you were pointing out. I went to the website, (the link provided) and used the information posted. Among PHYSICIANS it states that PSYCHIATRISTS rate in the top four in regards to SALARY among all U.S. PHYSICIANS under the OCCUPATIONAL HANDBOOK ONLINE. This was the criteria I chose to answer the question. That reference alone was used, based on that ALONE I replied. Looking back, I understand my statement still makes sense. However, I've yet to make sense out of yours. Please explain your position with regards to challenging mine. I simply have no idea what you are talking about, or its relevance to anything significant.

 

[Chimed]

I'm a bit confused at what your point was, or what you were pointing out. I went to the website, (the link provided) and used the information posted. Among PHYSICIANS it states that PSYCHIATRISTS rate in the top four in regards to SALARY among all U.S. PHYSICIANS under the OCCUPATIONAL HANDBOOK ONLINE.

I think this person is pointing out the website is not including many other specialties and subspecialties that make far more then psychiatrists. For example, neurosurg, radiology, optho, derm, cardiology, GI, oncology, orthopedics....Not sure why the website puts us as a top 4.

 

[GatorMedMan]

I simply have no idea what you are talking about, or its relevance to anything significant.

There's nothing like waking up in the morning and hearing a premed call your words irrelevant and insignificant. Ah, it's going to be a great day!

I think this person is pointing out the website is not including many other specialties and subspecialties that make far more then psychiatrists. For example, neurosurg, radiology, optho, derm, cardiology, GI, oncology, orthopedics....Not sure why the website puts us as a top 4.

Exactly, just because you can only see 7 specialties on that website, doesn't mean that others don't exist. (When does object permanency develop, by age 2, right?) But if you really need to see it to believe it, go to the FREIDA site, it lists 52 specialties and 94 subspecialties/fellowships. Though there is obviously significant redundancy/overlap there, it's still a hellavalot more than 7.

 

[Psychotherapy]

I think this person is pointing out the website is not including many other specialties and subspecialties that make far more then psychiatrists. For example, neurosurg, radiology, optho, derm, cardiology, GI, oncology, orthopedics....Not sure why the website puts us as a top 4.

Oh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I don't know why either. The website is very general. It lists anesthesiologists as number one, from there surgeons, gynecologists/oncology then psychiatrists. Specialties within specialties aren't listed. What's the difference in salary within a specific concentration? Say, the average for counseling psychiatrists vs. forensic psychiatrists?

 

[Psychotherapy]

There's nothing like waking up in the morning and hearing a premed call your words irrelevant and insignificant. Ah, it's going to be a great day!



Exactly, just because you can only see 7 specialties on that website, doesn't mean that others don't exist. (When does object permanency develop, by age 2, right?) But if you really need to see it to believe it, go to the FREIDA site, it lists 52 specialties and 94 subspecialties/fellowships. Though there is obviously significant redundancy/overlap there, it's still a hellavalot more than 7.

I thank chimed for clearing up what I did not understand from your reply to my post, seeing as how you were "calling me out" on something. It also would appear that you wanted to quietly demean the degree of help to which I was able to submit. I also don't see how my pre med status has anything to do with me trying to understand the incoherence of your message. I didn't make up the stats, I also didn't say other stats don't exist. All I stated is the info submitted by OOH. I hardly said that this is the last and final word in salaries or specialties! Go poke at them. Yeesh.

 

[Psychotherapy]

A good reason not to list all the subspecialities could be that the list is entirely too long. This broad range that OOH includes provides a quick overview.

 

[CaymanIslander]

What r the trends right now in psychiatry?? IM really interested in the field and was wondering the $$ potential for this field. Can you make a lot if you really work at it...anyone???

Dude, its all about the stock market and investing. Invest in the day, a few sessions of therapy at night.

Oh, but you have to get really good at investing.

 

[mgdsh]

Dude, its all about the stock market and investing. Invest in the day, a few sessions of therapy at night.

Oh, but you have to get really good at investing.

Just like Dr. Alexander Elder (Psychiatrist), or similarly Dr. Brett Steenbarger (Psychologist).

Interestingly enough, they both are authors as well.

But even for those that don't care about the markets, IMO psych has a great future and I think you can pull a very solid income being a psychiatrist alone. If that doesn't do it for you, then be willing to think outside the box a bit (running a business on the side, investing in a business, investing elsewhere).

 

[jettavr6]

Negative.

Solid... I would have agreed with you 3 years ago, but the income for psychiatrists has gone up a lot recently. A few of my friends who are about to finish PGY4 (I'm PGY3) have been offered $180 + signing + bonuses. All of this is substantially higher than General Internal Medicine.

Just from what I've seen/heard (nothing on paper) is that salaries are going up quickly to meet demand. People have been offered $175+ on the west coast and $150 + on the East coast for 35 hours a week. Moon lighting and call pay extra.

Most of the private psychiatrists in the North East, with whom you can have an honest conversation, will admit to making no less than 250. Many of them make in the mid 300's. However, those in an academic setting make much less.

One practicing child psychiatrist and addiction medicine specialist in private practice, told me that most of the child psychiatrists (private practice) that he knows and who work more than 55-60 hours a week make above 500k a year.

What does this all mean?....not much. IMHO, the potential to make a lot of money exists in Private Practice. Certain fellowships such as child psych, pain management and addiction medicine will bring in a higher net income. However, the amount of work, stress and liability will increase as well.

 

[Chimed]

Dude, its all about the stock market and investing. Invest in the day, a few sessions of therapy at night.

Oh, but you have to get really good at investing.

I'm very ignorant about investing and the stock market. But with all the uncertainity in the market and the economy, wouldn't this be a stressful way to make a living?

 

[Solideliquid]

Solid... I would have agreed with you 3 years ago, but the income for psychiatrists has gone up a lot recently. A few of my friends who are about to finish PGY4 (I'm PGY3) have been offered $180 + signing + bonuses. All of this is substantially higher than General Internal Medicine.

Just from what I've seen/heard (nothing on paper) is that salaries are going up quickly to meet demand. People have been offered $175+ on the west coast and $150 + on the East coast for 35 hours a week. Moon lighting and call pay extra.

Most of the private psychiatrists in the North East, with whom you can have an honest conversation, will admit to making no less than 250. Many of them make in the mid 300's. However, those in an academic setting make much less.

One practicing child psychiatrist and addiction medicine specialist in private practice, told me that most of the child psychiatrists (private practice) that he knows and who work more than 55-60 hours a week make above 500k a year.

What does this all mean?....not much. IMHO, the potential to make a lot of money exists in Private Practice. Certain fellowships such as child psych, pain management and addiction medicine will bring in a higher net income. However, the amount of work, stress and liability will increase as well.

I completely agree with what you are saying, however I think I was referring to starting VA salary positions.

 

[diosa428]

Everyone keeps saying academic psychiatrists make "much less". But how much is "much less"? Like $150k?

 

[jettavr6]

I completely agree with what you are saying, however I think I was referring to starting VA salary positions.

My bad... I misread!

 

[jettavr6]

Everyone keeps saying academic psychiatrists make "much less". But how much is "much less"? Like $150k?

Depending on the institution, starting salaries can vary... But 150k is about right for a 35-40 hour a week starting salary (academic setting)...