Practicing in the prison system?

[wamcp]

Genuinely curious if anyone on sdn has any experience to share about working in the Federal Prison System. I saw on the usajobs.gov they pay “up to” 164k as a general practitioner. Is this a chill 9-5 kind of job with great benefits and pension and near zero chance of getting sued?

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[chessknt]

Genuinely curious if anyone on sdn has any experience to share about working in the Federal Prison System. I saw on the usajobs.gov they pay “up to” 164k as a general practitioner. Is this a chill 9-5 kind of job with great benefits and pension and near zero chance of getting sued?

You described a VA job. A prison job is with a very very difficult population and extremely limited resources. Can't comment on lawsuit risk but I imagine it is the same or higher (albeit probably self represented and thus not actually a threat) since these people have almost nothing else to do except think about how they are being wronged in prison.

 

[Splenda88]

Genuinely curious if anyone on sdn has any experience to share about working in the Federal Prison System. I saw on the usajobs.gov they pay “up to” 164k as a general practitioner. Is this a chill 9-5 kind of job with great benefits and pension and near zero chance of getting sued?

My friend is working in one in Massachusetts and I think he is getting closer ~200k with GREAT benefits. He is a true GP (one yr internship). It's a 9-5 job...

 

[Splenda88]

You described a VA job. A prison job is with a very very difficult population and extremely limited resources. Can't comment on lawsuit risk but I imagine it is the same or higher (albeit probably self represented and thus not actually a threat) since these people have almost nothing else to do except think about how they are being wronged in prison.

You cant sue them (you sue the fed)...

 

[sah]

I cannot speak for the Federal Prsion system, but can for a State Prison. This link gives specifics.

California Correctional Health Care Services - Career Opportunity

The salaries are highest at the prisons with the sickest patients. These prisons have many many sick patients with cancer, HIV, HCV, etc. You can start at $318k per year plus benefits on top of that base for starting board certified time limited. Salaries are about 30k lower in the prisons with healthier populations. There is still a good pension, but it was greatly reduced 4 years ago. After working there for a few months, you also get over 4 weeks a year off with holidays, vacation, and CME. This grows as you put more time in.

You need to accept the realities of working in a prison . While many of your patients are extremely appreciative, there will be times when very bad things happen. Prison riots, homicides, suicides still happen. There are infrequent assaults on staff. And you will get sued. Frequently sued, like 5 times a year. These are managed by the State's attorneys who are good, and for the most part make this manageable.

Years ago, the quality of care was terrible. Now, you are held to very high standards. You will be reviewed frequently for quality of care.

Bottom line, finances are excellent, but not for the faint of heart.

 

[wjs010]

You can get sued by a prisoner? Lol

 

[sah]

You can get sued by a prisoner? Lol

Yes. I do not believe many, if any, physicians laugh out loud when served.

 

[QueenJames]

You can get sued by a prisoner? Lol

A majority of them have nothing but time on their hands. They will make up nonspecific complaints about wanting to see the doc just to get out of their cell. It does happen.

But I was told that if you work for any prison system, it's the "last job you will ever take in medicine", b/c you will be sued so many times that even IF you win all or a majority of the decisions (which you will... nobody sues the state/fed successfully for the most part), that other places will be reluctant to hire a physician who has had these subpoenas and every attempt goes on record.

It's definitely not for the faint of heart.

If gangbangers with tatted faces and people who may or may not have murdered others scare you, then yeah. Not your scene.

These dudes can tell if you're scared of them. That's how prison runs. It's all about respect and fear.

I love dealing with patients with this background though. They are appreciative for the most part and I don't ask them the reasons for their recent or current incarceration.

Have common sense and don't be a jerk and you should be alright.

 

[sunshinefl]

A majority of them have nothing but time on their hands. They will make up nonspecific complaints about wanting to see the doc just to get out of their cell. It does happen.

But I was told that if you work for any prison system, it's the "last job you will ever take in medicine", b/c you will be sued so many times that even IF you win all or a majority of the decisions (which you will... nobody sues the state/fed successfully for the most part), that other places will be reluctant to hire a physician who has had these subpoenas and every attempt goes on record.

It's definitely not for the faint of heart.

If gangbangers with tatted faces and people who may or may not have murdered others scare you, then yeah. Not your scene.

These dudes can tell if you're scared of them. That's how prison runs. It's all about respect and fear.

I love dealing with patients with this background though. They are appreciative for the most part and I don't ask them the reasons for their recent or current incarceration.

Have common sense and don't be a jerk and you should be alright.

I personally found it very fulfilling when I was an RN in prison for 3 years. Prior to that I was a correctional officer for 7 years. I still potentially have interest in keeping in touch with correctional medicine somehow when it’s all said and done.

 

[QueenJames]

I personally found it very fulfilling when I was an RN in prison for 3 years. Prior to that I was a correctional officer for 7 years. I still potentially have interest in keeping in touch with correctional medicine somehow when it’s all said and done.

Props to you.

Being a CO is tough work man.

Got any interesting stories you wanna share??? DM ME FAM!

 

[QueenJames]

I cannot speak for the Federal Prsion system, but can for a State Prison. This link gives specifics.

California Correctional Health Care Services - Career Opportunity

The salaries are highest at the prisons with the sickest patients. These prisons have many many sick patients with cancer, HIV, HCV, etc. You can start at $318k per year plus benefits on top of that base for starting board certified time limited. Salaries are about 30k lower in the prisons with healthier populations. There is still a good pension, but it was greatly reduced 4 years ago. After working there for a few months, you also get over 4 weeks a year off with holidays, vacation, and CME. This grows as you put more time in.

You need to accept the realities of working in a prison . While many of your patients are extremely appreciative, there will be times when very bad things happen. Prison riots, homicides, suicides still happen. There are infrequent assaults on staff. And you will get sued. Frequently sued, like 5 times a year. These are managed by the State's attorneys who are good, and for the most part make this manageable.

Years ago, the quality of care was terrible. Now, you are held to very high standards. You will be reviewed frequently for quality of care.

Bottom line, finances are excellent, but not for the faint of heart.

Do you happen to know how the overtime situation works in the prison system? There must be a lot of work to go around.

 

[sah]

Do you happen to know how the overtime situation works in the prison system? There must be a lot of work to go around.

Overtime is usually scheduled on your call time days. You get overtime when you have to come in at night or on the weekend. You do not get a pay check for the overtime, but instead accrue vacation time, which can be used or cashed out every once in a while.

You are correct where people say it is your last job. However, there are many exceptions to the rule.

 

[SuckySurgeon7]

"But I was told that if you work for any prison system, it's the "last job you will ever take in medicine", b/c you will be sued so many times that even IF you win all or a majority of the decisions (which you will... nobody sues the state/fed successfully for the most part), that other places will be reluctant to hire a physician who has had these subpoenas and every attempt goes on record."

Can anyone else confirm this? I've also heard that people don't like to hire doctors who've worked in the prison system, but didn't realize it was because of multiple lawsuits on a routine basis...

 

[sunshinefl]

"But I was told that if you work for any prison system, it's the "last job you will ever take in medicine", b/c you will be sued so many times that even IF you win all or a majority of the decisions (which you will... nobody sues the state/fed successfully for the most part), that other places will be reluctant to hire a physician who has had these subpoenas and every attempt goes on record."

Can anyone else confirm this? I've also heard that people don't like to hire doctors who've worked in the prison system, but didn't realize it was because of multiple lawsuits on a routine basis...

I’ve never heard that. I have heard that they (prison doctors) only take the jobs because they are “the worst doctors and only a GP”.

 

[sah]

In California, it was a common saying that the prison job was likely a last job. While the lawsuits may have contributed to that, it more likely was a reflection of the poor medical care provided by the physicians. It indeed used to be, the physicians were unable to work elsewhere, so they ended up working in prison. They also would get worse, not better with time. Therefore it was a terminal position.
This is not the case now. For the last 10 years, the quality of the physicians is close to community standards.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I’ve never heard that. I have heard that they (prison doctors) only take the jobs because they are “the worst doctors and only a GP”.

In California, it was a common saying that the prison job was likely a last job. While the lawsuits may have contributed to that, it more likely was a reflection of the poor medical care provided by the physicians. It indeed used to be, the physicians were unable to work elsewhere, so they ended up working in prison. They also would get worse, not better with time. Therefore it was a terminal position.
This is not the case now. For the last 10 years, the quality of the physicians is close to community standards.

Yep. Its not the last job you'll ever have because of the lawsuits and board reports. Its the last job you'll ever take because for most its the job of last resort.

 

[deleted497653]

It’s not a dream job even with the federal benefits. But if you have no other options I would consider it in the interim while you find something else. Not from personal experience but I’ve also heard there’s a high risk of getting sued.

 

[Apollyon]

Here in PA, they've ALWAYS said prison doc is the last job you'll ever have, and it is definitely from the (mostly totally) BS suits. "Frivolous" is being kind. However, there are those professionals that do treat the inmates poorly. I read about a dentist that REALLY screwed this guy up, and it went to trial. I don't know the result.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Speaking from no experience, I thin you'd be crazy to take this job.

 

[lulu09]

This is super interesting as I briefly entertained working as a PCP in prison as my gap year before fellowship (honestly just out of genuine interest as I did an elective in correctional health in med school and tbh I liked it) but when I spoke to the prison physician who was in charge of recruitment and he found out that I was going to do this as a gap year thing straight out of residency he actually tried to steer me AWAY from the job rather than to sell me on it. I'm now wrapping up my year as a hospitalist....and I wonder if he knew something I didn't at the time (and whether he did me a favor? )