Pre-med college advise

[europ321123]

Maybe I'm writing in the wrong topic, I'm new, sorry.

I am a transfer student from out of US university and do not have to choose a lot and I have sent a lot of applications for Biology pre-med.

I was accepted to Barry University, Albright College, Lewis&Clark College, and UAlabamaH.

Can you advise whether it is possible to go to these universities for a pre-med track, whether there will be chances to enter a medical school after them?

Or better take a closer look at a post-bacc at a more prestigious university?

Best regards

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

College prestige doesn't influence med school acceptances. Go to any college you want, it doesn't matter.

 

[europ321123]

College prestige doesn't influence med school acceptances. Go to any college you want, it doesn't matter.

Thank you for your answer, but as I understand it, in not very prestigious colleges it will be difficult to perform extracurricular activities for medical school: researches, shadowing?

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Thank you for your answer, but as I understand it, in not very prestigious colleges it will be difficult to perform extracurricular activities for medical school: researches, shadowing?

Are you interested in medical school or dental school? I've seen you post on the dental forum.

You may want to see which colleges offer you better research opportunities, but college prestige doesn't influence shadowing, clinical experience et cetera

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

I serve on my school's ADCOM and an interviewee's UG school is not only part of the presentation, but is weighted as first, second, or third-tier.

People can get into medical school from practically any 4 year college, but prestige definitely plays a role.

While selectivity of your undergrad institution is important, it's not all that important. It largely doesn't matter.

Can you advise whether it is possible to go to these universities for a pre-med track, whether there will be chances to enter a medical school after them?

OP is asking whether his chances are shot if he doesn't go to a prestigious college and I told him it doesn't matter. It doesn't. Med schools aren't gonna throw your app in the trash because you didn't go to Harvard.

 

[LunaOri]

Choose the college at which you have the best chance to do well. Because English is not your first language, make sure that the school has plenty of support for ESL speakers.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Make inquiries into how many students took the mcat and how many got in that year. 14 took it my year at my LA pre med mill. 12 accepted my year and the other 2 the next year. Recently, only 1 or 2 get in a year.The school changed its mission and reduced emphasis on pre professional emphasis. This might help you make your decision.

 

[KnightDoc]

I serve on my school's ADCOM and an interviewee's UG school is not only part of the presentation, but is weighted as first, second, or third-tier.

People can get into medical school from practically any 4 year college, but prestige definitely plays a role.

Just what does this mean, and just how much of a role? Schools get stratified into tiers -- great. Then what?

Can an Ivy grad get away with less exciting ECs? Lower GPAs and MCATs? If so, to what degree? And, to OP's question, is a Barry U grad DOA, even with a 4.0/528 and the usual ECs, because, well, Barry, and, after all, prestige plays a role?

What do the tiers mean, and just how do they impact how you score an app? I'd really appreciate any insight as I'm about to embark on this journey.

The widely cited survey that @Ms Procrastinator posted above says most schools consider UG prestige to be of least importance as a selection factor, while your school goes to the trouble to place them into three separate tiers and then weighting them. After your school is done with its stratifying, is it still right up there with UG major, challenging non-science courses and advanced degrees, or is something else going on at your school?

 

[europ321123]

Thanks for the answers, but when compared to post-baccalaureate, which would be better? These colleges?

 

[LunaOri]

Probably University of Alabama

 

[KnightDoc]

The problem with that survey is that you have to make 3 huge assumptions:

1. The person/people who filled it out at each school also give the 'go ahead' or 'the axe' for each applicant.
2. All schools function the same
3. Schools care more about truth than image

The ADCOM at my school is made up of 25+ individuals (MDs, PhDs, and med students). I would bet none of them had any input with that survey. At my school, PhDs are by far the most selective in terms of 'prestige' and numbers. If 25 members are at a meeting, it only takes 3 "no's" to be waitlisted. And you better believe that out of those 25 people, there are at least a few who will snark at someone who went to a no-name school. And at my school, military service is by far the most important factor (as it should be; another miss on that survey).

But assumption #3 is by far the most important. Just like when the AAMC came out with the guidelines about the new MCAT, with 500 = success in medical school, I remember people at my undergrad saying "Now I can get into a US MD with a 500!". Not true in the majority of cases. Just like when residency programs publish on their webpages, "We do a holistic review and step scores are just 1 factor of many!". At a lot of those programs, it's BS. In life, these schools and programs value image > reality...partly because they know what will happen if they are 100% truthful.

To believe that name doesn't matter in this process is laughable. If you perform well and do everything you're supposed to do, you can get in with a degree from any 4 year university. But having a degree from a reputable university makes life much, much easier.

I TOTALLY get and respect what you are saying! This is why I posted, to try to find out what actually happens, from someone on the inside. Either way, it's too late to help me, but might help someone else. Plus, it might help set my expectations for the upcoming cycle.

So, since I honestly have no idea what school you attend, are you able to share a few details as to just how UG influences decisions, beyond some PhDs are snobs and value name brands?

 

[KnightDoc]

I'd like to keep it that way, sorry. But it's not hard to imagine. If the name didn't matter, it wouldn't be a part of the presentation to the committee. It's presented right alongside URM status, 1st gen status, multiple degree status, and military status. All of these variables give "greater insight" into each applicant. Best of luck.

It might not be hard to imagine, but, since no one is willing to quantify it for us, there is really not much an applicant can do with this information.

Thanks for the heads-up, but, other than telling us that some people at one school place some weight on it, in spite of what is suggested by a survey completed by people who care more image that truth, it doesn't really help much.

 

[europ321123]

Probably University of Alabama

Thank you for reply. Do you mean The University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa or the University of Alabama in Huntsville, because I applied to both, but only UAHuntsville release a decision for now.

 

[europ321123]

Hi! Since financial factor is important for me, there are two options now Albright College or Lewis and Clark College(OR). Which one is better for pre-med? Thanks

 

[proudofmykids]

I serve on my school's ADCOM and an interviewee's UG school is not only part of the presentation, but is weighted as first, second, or third-tier.

People can get into medical school from practically any 4 year college, but prestige definitely plays a role.

Based on this ranking of tiers for schools, how much is one tier difference worth in terms of equivalent GPA or mcat values, all else being equal?

Also, what schools do you consider at the top of the second tier? Third tier?

 

[mmchick]

Hi! Since financial factor is important for me, there are two options now Albright College or Lewis and Clark College(OR). Which one is better for pre-med? Thanks

You could email both of those programs directly and ask about their pre-med track. I don't think people in this site will have much of an idea of specific pre-med tracks per certain schools. I would recommend following the best financial package/cost, thorough/supported pre-med track, and potentially considering options for research if that is something you'd be interested in pursuing. Aside from that, unless you are comparing an Ivy League vs State School vs Private Institute, there isn't much of a difference between the specific schools you've listed.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Hi! Since financial factor is important for me, there are two options now Albright College or Lewis and Clark College(OR). Which one is better for pre-med? Thanks

What do you mean by "better for pre-med"? I keep thinking you think that the status of certain schools lessen or increase your chances of getting into med school. That's not really how it works. Both schools seem pretty meh to me anyways. You have a chance to go to pretty much any med school in the country if you go to either (and do well of course).

Albright says they have a 90% med school acceptance rate, but I'm not sure that means anything. They could just be filtering people out. Like @LunaOri said, go to whichever school you think will offer you support and and help you succeed.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

You could email both of those programs directly and ask about their pre-med track. I don't think people in this site will have much of an idea of specific pre-med tracks per certain schools. I would recommend following the best financial package/cost, thorough/supported pre-med track, and potentially considering options for research if that is something you'd be interested in pursuing. Aside from that, unless you are comparing an Ivy League vs State School vs Private Institute, there isn't much of a difference between the specific schools you've listed.

Can you advise whether it is possible to go to these universities for a pre-med track, whether there will be chances to enter a medical school after them?

Or better take a closer look at a post-bacc at a more prestigious university?

Best regards

I think OP thinks that certain schools increase their chances more than others. I think they might be thinking of the med school application process like how we think of IMG vs USMD chances of matching.

I keep mentioning that prestige doesn't matter that much since everyone pretty much has a shot.

 

[europ321123]

I think OP thinks that certain schools increase their chances more than others. I think they might be thinking of the med school application process like how we think of IMG vs USMD chances of matching.

I keep mentioning that prestige doesn't matter that much since everyone pretty much has a shot.

Thanks for reply. I don't think about prestige. I mean where is better option for shadowing, researches, if someone get through this two colleges. Since LC don't saying anything about accepting rate to medschool.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Thanks for reply. I don't think about prestige. I mean where is better option for shadowing, researches, if someone get through this two colleges. Since LC don't saying anything about accepting rate to medschool, however I not so sure about 90% in Albright, since it the same as Harvard. I spoke with pre-med advisers from both, but they said that they don't have statistic since they are very small colleges.

That's something you'd have to ask both schools about.

 

[LizzyM]

Where is each school located? Is the location a big city, a small city, or a remote (rural) area? How far from the campus is the nearest hospital? How long does it take to get there by public transportation (or walking)? (This is important if you will not have a car on campus.)

Have you asked the school what proportion of undergraduates are involved with faculty research projects?
How close is the nearest medical school (on campus, within a shuttle bus ride, further away) that might have laboratory research opportunities for pre-meds?

The worst situation might be a small school in a remote location and no transportation to labs/clinical settings. Of course, being at a big school in a small city with a zillion pre-meds can also be challenging (U Michigan, looking at you).

 

[europ321123]

Is this true that for example it easier to get higher GPA in small colleges like L&C or Albright than in universities like Temple, Alabama, Lehigh?

 

[deleted1025488]

Is this true that for example it easier to get higher GPA in small colleges like L&C or Albright than in universities like Temple, Alabama, Lehigh?

Not sure if this is universal but it seems like most "top" undergrad schools tend to be more lenient with curves. None of my intro prereqs were ever curved to anything lower than a B+. My friends at state schools said that they more of a true bell curve and some classes even curved to C. I took an upper bio class this year where I got the mean on everything except homework, totalling about 0.5% higher than the average grade, and I got an A in the course.

To be clear my sample size is small but from what I've seen offhand this also seems to be consistent. Harvard's average GPA is like a 3.75 or something.

 

[europ321123]

Where is each school located? Is the location a big city, a small city, or a remote (rural) area? How far from the campus is the nearest hospital? How long does it take to get there by public transportation (or walking)? (This is important if you will not have a car on campus.)

Have you asked the school what proportion of undergraduates are involved with faculty research projects?
How close is the nearest medical school (on campus, within a shuttle bus ride, further away) that might have laboratory research opportunities for pre-meds?

The worst situation might be a small school in a remote location and no transportation to labs/clinical settings. Of course, being at a big school in a small city with a zillion pre-meds can also be challenging (U Michigan, looking at you).

Thank you for informative answer!
1) Lewis Clark located in Portland Oregon (population about 645'000) nearest Meschool (5miles away)
2) Albright in Reading, PA(which is only 88'000) nearest Medschool is in Philadelphia (62 miles away)

 

[LizzyM]

Don't go by rankings unless you know what went into the ranking and if it relevant to what you need.

 

[Test Boy]

Not sure if this is universal but it seems like most "top" undergrad schools tend to be more lenient with curves. None of my intro prereqs were ever curved to anything lower than a B+. My friends at state schools said that they more of a true bell curve and some classes even curved to C. I took an upper bio class this year where I got the mean on everything except homework, totalling about 0.5% higher than the average grade, and I got an A in the course.

To be clear my sample size is small but from what I've seen offhand this also seems to be consistent. Harvard's average GPA is like a 3.75 or something.

This is true. However, there are some “top” schools like uc Berkeley, Cornell, u. Chicago, Johns Hopkins, etc that don’t have the insane grade inflation like Harvard.

 

[europ321123]

Not sure if this is universal but it seems like most "top" undergrad schools tend to be more lenient with curves. None of my intro prereqs were ever curved to anything lower than a B+. My friends at state schools said that they more of a true bell curve and some classes even curved to C. I took an upper bio class this year where I got the mean on everything except homework, totalling about 0.5% higher than the average grade, and I got an A in the course.

To be clear my sample size is small but from what I've seen offhand this also seems to be consistent. Harvard's average GPA is like a 3.75 or something.

Thanks for reply! Don't quite understand. Do you mean that sometimes is easier go get high grades in ''top'' universities?

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks for reply! Don't quite understand. Do you mean that sometimes is easier go get high grades in ''top'' universities?

That's exactly what he means. Top schools attract a lot of top students who pay top dollar and whose top parents expect their top children to receive top grades. Many of the top schools happily oblige. As a result, just like in little league, pretty much everyone at Harvard receives a participation trophy, other known as an A grade, in pretty much every class.

 

[CManz]

What do you mean by "better for pre-med"? I keep thinking you think that the status of certain schools lessen or increase your chances of getting into med school. That's not really how it works. Both schools seem pretty meh to me anyways. You have a chance to go to pretty much any med school in the country if you go to either (and do well of course).

Albright says they have a 90% med school acceptance rate, but I'm not sure that means anything. They could just be filtering people out. Like @LunaOri said, go to whichever school you think will offer you support and and help you succeed.

Albright's 90% med school acceptance rate means that 90% of Albright students who apply for medical school are accepted. The college has a long history of helping students get a great education and connection to medical school. They also have great articulation agreements for early admission to med schools: You searched for medical school - Albright College News

 

[deleted1025488]

Thanks for reply! Don't quite understand. Do you mean that sometimes is easier go get high grades in ''top'' universities?

Yes it is substantially easier. If you're using a normal curve like my friends at other schools claim is used, like 10-15% of the class gets an A. I had one class that was similar to this, a prereq premed-only math class, that 'only' gave the top 20% an A. In any other case, it was usually somewhere in the realm of 30-40% for prereqs getting some form of an A. Further, upper-level classes seem to just not give out anything other than an A as long as you tried.

Not sure what @KnightDoc is trying to suggest about top dollar, since a large proportion of us are very low ses/have heavy financial aid (top schools are very generous in this regard) and even when we are competing in classes with private school kids the grades don't reflect the difference. Anyways if you can afford it I would go to a higher ranked school. It'll make your life much easier. Otherwise go to your cheapest alternative that is decent enough.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes it is substantially easier. If you're using a normal curve like my friends at other schools claim is used, like 10-15% of the class gets an A. I had one class that was similar to this, a prereq premed-only math class, that 'only' gave the top 20% an A. In any other case, it was usually somewhere in the realm of 30-40% for prereqs getting some form of an A. Further, upper-level classes seem to just not give out anything other than an A as long as you tried.

Not sure what @KnightDoc is trying to suggest about top dollar, since a large proportion of us are very low ses/have heavy financial aid (top schools are very generous in this regard) and even when we are competing in classes with private school kids the grades don't reflect the difference. Anyways if you can afford it I would go to a higher ranked school. It'll make your life much easier. Otherwise go to your cheapest alternative that is decent enough.

I'm trying to suggest basically exactly what I suggested.

The low SES scholarship people are generally not the entitled pains in the you-know-what complaining about grades to Harvard professors and administrators, but, there is no denying that such people are over represented at such schools. Where do you think the grade inflation comes from? I'm sure your grades are no different from the private school kids -- Karen made sure you all benefit equally from grade inflation.

Yes, top schools have lots of resources to be generous to those lucky enough to be accepted, but, it's not like the majority of UGs at Harvard are low SES. Or am I mistaken? Is a "large proportion" of the Harvard student body really low SES nowadays???

 

[deleted1025488]

I'm trying to suggest basically exactly what I suggested.

The low SES scholarship people are generally not the entitled pains in the you-know-what complaining about grades to Harvard professors and administrators, but, there is no denying that such people are over represented at such schools. Where do you think the grade inflation comes from? I'm sure your grades are no different from the private school kids -- Karen made sure you all benefit equally from grade inflation.

Yes, top schools have lots of resources to be generous to those lucky enough to be accepted, but, it's not like the majority of UGs at Harvard are low SES. Or am I mistaken? Is a "large proportion" of the Harvard student body really low SES nowadays???

I definitely don't have a figure for my school, of a similar caliber, but I am 100% sure those students centralize in the economics and finances majors. I also do not seem to see an overrepresentation of x or y population in premed courses. You also have to remember that a lot of students at private schools are also low income; coming from a 'prep' school does not immediately signify you're rich. Also a lot of the public magnets our school (and similar schools) draw from are heavily skewed towards the lower side--i.e. the top public school in NY has 60% of students quote "living in relative poverty."

Anyways not that it matters, but yea..

 

[KnightDoc]

I definitely don't have a figure for my school, of a similar caliber, but I am 100% sure those students centralize in the economics and finances majors. I also do not seem to see an overrepresentation of x or y population in premed courses. You also have to remember that a lot of students at private schools are also low income; coming from a 'prep' school does not immediately signify you're rich. Also a lot of the public magnets our school (and similar schools) draw from are heavily skewed towards the lower side--i.e. the top public school in NY has 60% of students quote "living in relative poverty."

Anyways not that it matters, but yea..

And, I'm equally sure they don't!

You have morphed a comment about grade inflation at top schools into a deep dive into demographics, STEM majors, premeds, etc.

Yes, opportunities at top schools have greatly expanded to populations beyond the top 1% in recent years. This does not change the fact that grade inflation occurred over a much greater period of time, precipitated in large part by overly demanding students and their parents demanding it in return for their outrageous tuition dollars.

Argue all you want. Back in the day, grades meant something because half of the class, everywhere, at all tiers of school, were in the bottom half and received a C. This still happens at places like Hopkins and Wash U, but, everyone at Harvard receives a trophy today. Not because a scholarship kid demanded it, and not because all of a sudden everyone at Harvard became universally brilliant in ALL the subjects, but because Jared and Olivia Jade's parents expected it and made it happen.

 

[deleted1025488]

And, I'm equally sure they don't!

You have morphed a comment about grade inflation at top schools into a deep dive into demographics, STEM majors, premeds, etc.

Yes, opportunities at top schools have greatly expanded to populations beyond the top 1% in recent years. This does not change the fact that grade inflation occurred over a much greater period of time, precipitated in large part by overly demanding students and their parents demanding it in return for their outrageous tuition dollars.

Argue all you want. Back in the day, grades meant something because half of the class, everywhere, at all tiers of school, were in the bottom half and received a C. This still happens at places like Hopkins and Wash U, but, everyone at Harvard receives a trophy today. Not because a scholarship kid demanded it, and not because all of a sudden everyone at Harvard became universally brilliant in ALL the subjects, but because Jared and Olivia Jade's parents expected it and made it happen.

Nah I was just pointing out that not everyone is just some rich snob paying for "top grades" at schools like these. 79% of my school is on financial aid and 70% of Harvard is on financial aid. Consider it a prize for getting in--that is, easy grades. Not many do. You said, "top schools attract top students who pay top dollar;" <25% pay top dollar, so this is untrue.

A significantly higher proportion of people pay "top dollar" at schools like NE or Case Western, or any other mid-tier school. Complain about those if you want!

 

[KnightDoc]

Nah I was just pointing out that not everyone is just some rich snob paying for "top grades" at schools like these. 79% of my school is on financial aid and 70% of Harvard is on financial aid. Consider it a prize for getting in--that is, easy grades. Not many do. You said, "top schools attract top students who pay top dollar;" <25% pay top dollar, so this is untrue.

A significantly higher proportion of people pay "top dollar" at schools like NE or Case Western, or any other mid-tier school. Complain about those if you want!

Not complaining at all, just commenting!

And I didn't mean to imply everyone was a rich snob paying for top grades. I meant to imply that rich snobs drove the movement towards grade inflation at elite schools. The 70% just get to enjoy the ride, which is honestly no ride at all, because when everyone receives a trophy it no longer has any meaning. 3.7 at Harvard? Wow! How does it feel to be below average?

Also, I wouldn't be so fast to just say <25% pay top dollar without knowing just how much aid every slice of that 70% receives. My bet would be a substantial majority of that 70% pay a helluva lot of money to go to Harvard, even with some subsidy, and a pretty small slice pay less than it would cost to attend an average state school. I just never got the vibe that Harvard was just like Stuyvesant in terms of SES, even though you implied just that in a prior post.