Pre-Med coursework school debate

[mmdp]

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removed. should have known better that there is no definitive answer, i apologize.

 

[DrMidlife]

He said that medical schools look at the university you went to (for example a state university w/research vs. a private small lib arts university).

This much is true, but how a given med school considers a given undergrad school isn't publicly available info. I can confirm that LECOM (a DO school) has a ranking system but I have no idea what it is.

For example someone with a B at a more prestigious school looks better then someone with A's from a lib arts school- that's his argument.

This (B beats an A) is patently false.

When there's a tie between candidates, if candidate #1 went to a "better" school than candidate #2, that would be in candidate #1's favor. Which would be a single point in a many-pointed argument that also includes discussions of which intramural sport reflects better on a candidate (ie ultimate frisbee or rowing).

That said, you can run into an adcom with a profound bias towards or against some school, but this is why you apply broadly. You can't predict what adcoms are going to love or hate about you.

He feels that the "level" is much different, for example Chem at a lib arts university with a small science dept. is much easier compared with Chem in a state u where these courses tend to be more competative because they try to "weed out" pre-med students.

This is why there is an MCAT, to balance out school-school disparities. If you get a 4.0 you better back it up with a better-than-32 MCAT or you don't look so hot, no matter if you went to Yale or Crap State.

If you've taken any of the prereqs anywhere, you know that there's no easy version. The coursework is very standardized. This is aside from the grade you get.

It's in your best interest to pick a school where you will thrive. Personally, if I could do it again, I would have gone to Bennington (small liberal arts school) instead of the massive deadly hostile research university down the street that crushed me like a bug.

Keep in mind that there are about 140 MD schools now. Some rumor from some applicant to Harvard is just not going to scale to the big picture.

Best of luck to you.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I just had a debate with a friend regarding chances of getting accepted into medical school based on where you go to do your post-bac/pre-med pre-req coursework. He said that medical schools look at the university you went to (for example a state university w/research vs. a private small lib arts university). For example someone with a B at a more prestigious school looks better then someone with A's from a lib arts school- that's his argument. He feels that the "level" is much different, for example Chem at a lib arts university with a small science dept. is much easier compared with Chem in a state u where these courses tend to be more competative because they try to "weed out" pre-med students.

😕

Here' s the bottom line. Adcoms at Medical Schools are pretty bright people. Trying to game the system is a good way to lose. Go to the best school that you can afford or commute to, and get the best grades.

 

[mmdp]

Here' s the bottom line. Adcoms at Medical Schools are pretty bright people. Trying to game the system is a good way to lose. Go to the best school that you can afford or commute to, and get the best grades.

I have this strange gut feeling you might be right. In my case I feel like I may have made a mistake withdrawing from the formal post bac...I "w"ed out in the fall and since that time been taking some classes at the small private university...now I'm wondering if I should go back to the post bac for the fall. At the school I am at now I would be working towards a second ba degree in bio...maybe I can do both? Decisions decisions, scared to make the wrong choice here now.

 

[mmdp]

This much is true, but how a given med school considers a given undergrad school isn't publicly available info. I can confirm that LECOM (a DO school) has a ranking system but I have no idea what it is.

This (B beats an A) is patently false.

When there's a tie between candidates, if candidate #1 went to a "better" school than candidate #2, that would be in candidate #1's favor. Which would be a single point in a many-pointed argument that also includes discussions of which intramural sport reflects better on a candidate (ie ultimate frisbee or rowing).

That said, you can run into an adcom with a profound bias towards or against some school, but this is why you apply broadly. You can't predict what adcoms are going to love or hate about you.

This is why there is an MCAT, to balance out school-school disparities. If you get a 4.0 you better back it up with a better-than-32 MCAT or you don't look so hot, no matter if you went to Yale or Crap State.

If you've taken any of the prereqs anywhere, you know that there's no easy version. The coursework is very standardized. This is aside from the grade you get.

It's in your best interest to pick a school where you will thrive. Personally, if I could do it again, I would have gone to Bennington (small liberal arts school) instead of the massive deadly hostile research university down the street that crushed me like a bug.

Keep in mind that there are about 140 MD schools now. Some rumor from some applicant to Harvard is just not going to scale to the big picture.

Best of luck to you.

I agree about the importance of the mcat, I just wonder how you hear about so many community college students getting in...ah, this process is so confusing to me.

 

[DrMidlife]

I agree about the importance of the mcat, I just wonder how you hear about so many community college students getting in...ah, this process is so confusing to me.

Yes, rumors will drive you crazy. Stop listening.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I agree about the importance of the mcat, I just wonder how you hear about so many community college students getting in...ah, this process is so confusing to me.

Not all CC's are the same. The medical schools know the difference. Yale HIGHLY discourages CC's, but told me that mine would be fine - they know Tulsa's system and understand that TCC is the only public college for 1000 and 2000 level courses in this part of the state.

Just because you hear about a CC student getting in, doesn't mean that you will succeed in getting by with something clever. Do you really think that the people judging you can't read - even though they are doctors, medical students, or teachers, themselves?

None of this is difficult. Med admissions are competitive. Some schools are less competitive than others. Some grades are less competitive, some MCATs are less competitive, some volunteer experiences are less competitive. Come on people. Do your best and then apply.

 

[mafunk]

I'm an aspiring applicant so take what I say with a grain of salt.

According to the handful of admission counselors I've conversed with some schools place weight on the prestige of the institution at which you took your pre-reqs and others do not.

If you are concerned I agree with the poster in another thread who suggested that you take most of your pre-reqs at the place that works best for your budget/life, then take a couple at a more prestigious place just to show you can hang.

I even contacted a couple schools and asked about online science courses. One said online is fine and considered equally viable. Another said they honor University of New England courses as equal to in person (but do not accept any other online courses).

 

[mmdp]

Not all CC's are the same. The medical schools know the difference. Yale HIGHLY discourages CC's, but told me that mine would be fine - they know Tulsa's system and understand that TCC is the only public college for 1000 and 2000 level courses in this part of the state.

Just because you hear about a CC student getting in, doesn't mean that you will succeed in getting by with something clever. Do you really think that the people judging you can't read - even though they are doctors, medical students, or teachers, themselves?

None of this is difficult. Med admissions are competitive. Some schools are less competitive than others. Some grades are less competitive, some MCATs are less competitive, some volunteer experiences are less competitive. Come on people. Do your best and then apply.

It is not where you do your best but also about cost and convenience (I'm 5 minutes from the private university and hour and a half one way from the more prestigious research university where classes are 4 days per week- not adult student friendly). I guess I want to make sure I made the right decision, I still want to shine, I don't want to cut corners, but maybe my friend is right about the prestige? I think what I'm really trying to figure out is if a non-research private university with a small science department is better than a community college, and not far behind as far as a good research school? This pre-med stuff is a "game"...words out of a mouth of a physician I know. There seems to be a difference of opinion all around so just wanted to see what you guys know/heard.

I guess bottom line: you never know what med school might like you and which one won't...I hope to apply to as many as I possibly can including DO.

Good luck to everyone!

 

[EdLongshanks]

It is not where you do your best but also about cost and convenience (I'm 5 minutes from the private university and hour and a half one way from the more prestigious research university where classes are 4 days per week- not adult student friendly). I guess I want to make sure I made the right decision, I still want to shine, I don't want to cut corners, but maybe my friend is right about the prestige? I think what I'm really trying to figure out is if a non-research private university with a small science department is better than a community college, and not far behind as far as a good research school? This pre-med stuff is a "game"...words out of a mouth of a physician I know. There seems to be a difference of opinion all around so just wanted to see what you guys know/heard.

I guess bottom line: you never know what med school might like you and which one won't...I hope to apply to as many as I possibly can including DO.

Good luck to everyone!

Isn't this a bit histrionic? If you can take courses at a big prestigious university, do so. If this is not reasonable, take them at a private university if this is doable. If not, then do them at a CC, if necessary. I did most of my pre-reqs at a CC because that was the only reasonable thing to do for an adult, working person. The rest of my pre-reqs are at a second-tier state university that is adult-friendly. I'm sure that this hurt my application at some places.

Every application has weak points and strong points. My school location was one of my weaknesses. It may be yours also. But weakness is not dis-qualification. In the time that you save going to a lower-rated school, you can spend volunteer hours at some clinic where you maximize patient contact. My goodness, in the time that you spent agonizing over this, you could have read an entire anatomy book.

 

[DrMidlife]

I guess I want to make sure I made the right decision, I still want to shine, I don't want to cut corners, but maybe my friend is right about the prestige?

Stop with the prestige. Per your other posts, you've been at multiple schools and you have a non-trivial number of withdrawals. This drowns out the name of the school where you finish. School prestige is not relevant to your story. Demonstrating that you can finish what you start, and get mostly A's, somewhere, is what matters.

You're not going to get kudos for talking about how your job made school hard. You have to figure it out. Your nontrad competition is smoking you in this regard, quite frankly.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

None of this is difficult. Med admissions are competitive. Some schools are less competitive than others. Some grades are less competitive, some MCATs are less competitive, some volunteer experiences are less competitive. Come on people. Do your best and then apply.

I wish before you were able to start a new thread, you had to click that you acknowledge reading the above snipped post. This is truth, at it's most distilled. There aren't secrets; what makes you "better" is all out there and known. Just do your best. Don't figure out what MCAT score you "need" to make. Just do the damn best you possibly can.

 

[mmdp]

A large percentage of schools likely have either a formal or informal "ranking" system of the school where you have your undergraduate degree. But understand how it is structured and used and you will see its makes little difference.for most nontraditional students.

It appears that few schools have some highly structured system. Most are a simple 3 or 4 rank system. They typically give a small weight based your GPA from your orginal undergraduate institution and to a lessor extent to other schools such as postbacc or graduate. So a school that is say ranked high at a "4" might give your GPA a multiplier of .04 as opposed to a low school where the rank was a 1 and you get .01 multiplier. These would then be added to whatever numeric formula the school uses that combines GPA (sliced and diced with science, non-science, post-bacc, etc), MCAT score for that first initial cutoff to decide to send you a secondary application. Even so, most schools then have a brief review of applications that didn't make the cut to see if there were any gross disparities, outstanding reasons, etc why the app didn't make the cutoff. So if you mentioned that term of W's due to illness, a loss of a job, etc, they'd probably flag it for further review. This is the majority where any numeric "prestige ranking" is used.
It is not likely used in any direct way in the actual admissions decision.

The more important questions are "well, where do the rankings come from?" What are they based on?" "How are they decided?" For that, nobody knows. They seem to be subjective, based on a few individuals within the admissions department. Nobody I have ever spoken seems to have a rational objective system.

As someone previously mentioned, specific knowledge, general understanding or other perception that admissions staff has of a particular school likely has more impact on "prestige weight" than any numeric ranking system.

General rule of thumb is go to the best school you can do the best at. If that means a nearby CC instead of University an hour and half away because of family or job constraints, then do it.

I think you answered my questions and concerns, thank you for your insight.