Pre-med in need Advice, strongly considering Dentistry

[Auron]

Hello Everyone,

I am a senior at a well known liberal arts school, and have been pre-med for the last 4 years of college. Now that I am about to graduate I have been having a lot of mixed feelings about medicine. I have shadowed numerous doctors, and feel that I have a decent idea of what a career in medicine entails (a lot of sacrifice and hardwork everyday). I chose medicine after encouragement from family, and because I myself wasn't sure which health profession to pursue so I worked towards going to medical school.

My grades sufferred earlier in college because I had no direction and lacked motivation to excel in my science courses. In my last 2 years I have shown quite a bit of improvement. However, my gpa is not very good, and with the MCAT....I think it would be hard to get in to a med school, though till now I planned to apply, give my best shot and see what happens.

Cum GPA: 3.3
Sci GPA: 3.0
All other: 3.9
DAT: ? (predict I'll do very welll, after seeing some practice material)

But I've recently been browsing the dental forums and was very surprised to hear how well dentists are doing, good living AND good lifestyle, still able to help people. I think I would really the work itself, as I enjoy using my hands and working in small spaces. I think I would also enjoy the business aspect of the profession, and running my own office. I've always wanted to start my own company or be in the business field - dentistry will let me combine my interests. I am however, a bit reluctant to let go off medicine because I've held on to it for so long. And the fact that their are only 2 dental schools opposed 7 med schools in IL makes me nervous.

I'm having trouble deciding whether dentistry is truly what I want, as the idea is new to me. I think I would be a great dentist. I think I would enjoy the work.

Could any other pre-meds considering dentistry, or have already switched to dental, or anyone else could give me some advice about my chances for IL schools and have any other advice, I'd greatly appreciate it.

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[Jake8]

Do the same thing you did with medicine - shadow several different dentists. Dental school is as hard if not harder to get into as medical school so either way you have a tough road ahead. I had stats very similar to yours and ultimately it took a 21/21/23 DAT and a MS degree program to get in. You have a little bit of time before May rolls around but you need to get the ball rolling if you want to be ready for the next cycle. Also with your stats its not impossible to get in but make sure to give yourself the best chance and apply all over the country.

 

[Blarelli]

Like Jake said, get some shadowing in. See if it is even something you could see yourself doing. Your GPA isn't very competitive, especially your sGPA, but not to the point that you couldn't make up for it with a killer DAT score. Out of curiosity, how did you do on the MCAT?

 

[Jimmy Choo]

Hi, I was once pre-med so I think I can definitely give you the most accurate information. Keep in mind that there's an essential hate between pre-med and pre-dental students so you probably will get good amount of snide remarks. Anyway, just to start with, your GPA sucks. You have almost no shot at allopathic medical schools even if you ace the MCAT. You do have a decent shot at dental schools like NYU or Tufts, but you would need to do well on the DAT to make up for your low GPA. People here will tell you other wise but the biggest difference between med and dental school is that the latter is more forgiving of your GPA. So just study your butt off and ace the DAT and you won't have to spend an extra years and loads of money doing post bac or masters. Other than that, you just need 50 hours or so of dental shadowing. That's it. All your pre-med extracurriculars can be used for dental school application and yes that is including shadowing physicians and surgeons. Afterall, what makes a good med school candidate makes a good dental candidate. In fact, in my interview, I've found that the schools liked that I was once pre-med and I have sufficiently explored both fields. I was never asked this but a popular question at interviews is why dentistry and not medicine. You can answer that a lot better and you have credibility having been in both tracks.

Don't listen to these pre-dental kids that will question your motive for switching, whether you have profound love for teeth, posess superior hand skills, or other bs. They are just afraid of your taking their spot. Remember, dentists or physicians, they are both doctors and both health professionals.

 

[burnzee06]

The animosity between pre-meds/pre-dents is understandable when someone alludes to the fact that they don't think their grades are good enough for med school so they are going to try to get into dental school.

Anyway, everyone else's replies have been correct- a 3.3/3.0 cumulative/science GPA is below average. You can still get in but it might not be the easiest process.

 

[needa20]

I started out pre-med too. my father is a physician, so it seemed like the natural choice. Once i got married, i finally admitted to myself that 4 more years of school was fine, but i did not want a 4 to 6 year residency afterward. That is when another family member of mine asked why i had never considered dentistry....

I said i dont know and began looking into dentisty. i look back now and kick myself for not looking into dentisrty earlier. It fits my personality and lifestyle much better. So that brings me to where i am today. Dentistry is not a back up for me to med school, but be prepared to prove that during interviews and on your applications.

good luck and God bless

oh yea, do some shadowing asap so that you can see if this is somthing that you are really interested in

 

[DrReo]

Welcome!

 

[jay47]

The animosity between pre-meds/pre-dents is understandable when someone alludes to the fact that they don't think their grades are good enough for med school so they are going to try to get into dental school.

Very true.

 

[DrReo]

Very true.

There's always DO school

 

[Jimmy Choo]

Well, dental schools might be harder to get into than osteopathic or Caribbean medical schools. Dental schools are are certainly easier than allopathic medical schools.

Jake8, just to use your case as an example, you had a low GPA and high DAT (93~94%?). I think the equivalent percentile MCAT score would be a 34, that is assuming that you do as well as on the MCAT, which is a big assumption. NYU medical has an average GPA of 3.77 and MCAT of 33. What I'm saying is that you couldn't even SMELL NYU with your stats.

burnzee06, you really can't argue the fact that they don't think their grades are good enough for med school so they are going to try to get into dental school. Because it's a fact. Medical school admissions is harsher than dental school admissions. If you can find even one dental school that has a higher average GPA than their medical school counterpart, you win the argument. I've noticed people use osteopathic and Caribbean to say that overall medical school is not as competitive as dental school. Why not include naturopathic schools and chiropractic schools in the equation? Also they like to use the acceptance percentage to skew this argument saying dental schools are harder to get into because their acceptance percentage is so low. While that is a true statement in certain schools like Harvard because of their extremely small class size, you're ignoring the fact that the quality of the applicant pool is just superior for medical schools.

Lastly, I don't think there's anything wrong with choosing dental schools over osteopathic or Caribbean medical schools. Allopathic and osteopathic are very different and Caribbean is just a whole different story. Besides that, it's your life, you can do whatever you want with it.

 

[nydds25]

No matter what anyone says, the DAT is leagues easier than the MCAT. But not only is the test easier, you are scaled against a lesser student than the MCAT.

 

[Ranelar]

No matter what anyone says, the DAT is leagues easier than the MCAT. But not only is the test easier, you are scaled against a lesser student than the MCAT.

I felt RC was more difficult on the DAT, Chem/Bio were about the same, PAT is a fun addition, and I'd take QR over Physics any day So yea, I guess overall it's a bit easier. I wouldn't say leagues... I had very similar scores on both tests.

 

[RAK1987]

to the OP.

i am an IL resident and go to U of I in champaign. p/m me if you wanna talk about it!

 

[doc toothache]

I am a senior at a well known liberal arts school, and have been pre-med for the last 4 years of college. Now that I am about to graduate I have been having a lot of mixed feelings about medicine. I have shadowed numerous doctors, and feel that I have a decent idea of what a career in medicine entails (a lot of sacrifice and hardwork everyday). I chose medicine after encouragement from family, and because I myself wasn't sure which health profession to pursue so I worked towards going to medical school.

My grades sufferred earlier in college because I had no direction and lacked motivation to excel in my science courses. In my last 2 years I have shown quite a bit of improvement. However, my gpa is not very good, and with the MCAT....I think it would be hard to get in to a med school, though till now I planned to apply, give my best shot and see what happens.
DAT: ? (predict I'll do very welll, after seeing some practice material)
I'm having trouble deciding whether dentistry is truly what I want, as the idea is new to me. I think I would be a great dentist. I think I would enjoy the work.

This is the prototypical pre med who feels/is unqualified to gain acceptance to med schools and believes that dentistry is a walk in the park. There is no effort to hide the arrogance and despite the excellent lip synching there is not much evidence that the new choice has been methodical/logical.

 

[UW09]

I suggest you seriously consider shadowing a dentist before you switch...remember you will be doing dentistry for the rest of your life so you have to love what you do; there are dentists out there who were in your shoes (switched to dental) that are miserable now even though they are making a lot of money....as cliche as it sounds, money really can't buy happiness so make sure you like what dentists do before you commit to the dental road. GL

 

[aguacero]

Could any other pre-meds considering dentistry, or have already switched to dental, or anyone else could give me some advice about my chances for IL schools and have any other advice, I'd greatly appreciate it.

To all those posting please consider the request of the OP. Like all of us, at one time or another, this person is at the crossroads and could use some advice.

My advice: Don't let Dr. toothache bother you. Some of his posts are very helpful but most of the time he is an arrogant prick.

 

[GunnerDMD617]

.

 

[dent2009]

So dentistry really is a profession for those who can't cut it out to be M.D. and D.O.? Make sure you tell the admission officers that.

When you apply, only apply to private schools. Your stats and histories are not good for a reputable state school such as UCLA, etc... Private schools such as Tufts and NYU will take anybody, regardless of the histories. Just make sure you give them money and they'll "teach" you.

I think dentistry mainly USED to be for those who couldn't cut it out to be a physician. People have the right to have backup plans. What do you suggest them to do otherwise? work in a retail store? dentistry is a branch of medicine and is very similar to what M.D./D.O.'s do as healthcare professionals. I just say do whatever you want as long as they don't take their elitist "M.D./D.O. is better, dentistry sucks" attitude to dent school.

 

[burnzee06]

burnzee06, you really can't argue the fact that they don't think their grades are good enough for med school so they are going to try to get into dental school. Because it's a fact. Medical school admissions is harsher than dental school admissions. If you can find even one dental school that has a higher average GPA than their medical school counterpart, you win the argument. I've noticed people use osteopathic and Caribbean to say that overall medical school is not as competitive as dental school. Why not include naturopathic schools and chiropractic schools in the equation? Also they like to use the acceptance percentage to skew this argument saying dental schools are harder to get into because their acceptance percentage is so low. While that is a true statement in certain schools like Harvard because of their extremely small class size, you're ignoring the fact that the quality of the applicant pool is just superior for medical schools.

Lastly, I don't think there's anything wrong with choosing dental schools over osteopathic or Caribbean medical schools. Allopathic and osteopathic are very different and Caribbean is just a whole different story. Besides that, it's your life, you can do whatever you want with it.

My post included no argument on whether or not dental school acceptance is more difficult than med school acceptance let alone if it's on the same level. Did you read the OP's post? I did, and all I got from it was that they were pre-med, got bad grades, and what the heck they might as well try dental school since med school is out. It's that attitude that upsets a lot of pre-dents that work really hard to be where they are. Even if it is the OP's main motivation for switching, it's not something you say to other pre-dents out of common courtesy.

 

[Jimmy Choo]

To all those posting please consider the request of the OP. Like all of us, at one time or another, this person is at the crossroads and could use some advice.

My advice: Don't let Dr. toothache bother you. Some of his posts are very helpful but most of the time he is an arrogant prick.

I agree. I don't really know why he acts so arrogant and always keep up with those snide remarks. Doesn't he go to like VCU or somewhere like that and he was also a reapplicant?

 

[AggieDDS]

However, my gpa is not very good, and with the MCAT....I think it would be hard to get in to a med school, though till now I planned to apply, give my best shot and see what happens.

Well, saw this and couldn't help to comment.

I am also in the same predicament, except my grades don't blow like the OP's (3.7+). I will be taking the MCATs shortly after my dental school application. If I don't get into the schools that I want to go to, I will be applying to medical school the following year as my 'back up'. Figure I'll be wasting 2 years the med school route => dds => omfs but w/e I'll have the same privileges as those who went the traditional route.

Good luck!

P.s. Something tells me that you will be adding to the dental suicide statistic if you choose dental school.

 

[scurred09]

To all those posting please consider the request of the OP. Like all of us, at one time or another, this person is at the crossroads and could use some advice.

My advice: Don't let Dr. toothache bother you. Some of his posts are very helpful but most of the time he is an arrogant prick.

I agree. I'd notice many of the pre-dents here are way to competitive. Some will discourage you because they are afraid that you may take their spot. Hopefully, ADCOM will weed all of these folks out. Ignore the haters and just do what makes you happy. Shadow some Dentists to see if it is something you will like then do what you can to spike up your application. If you don't try, you will never know my friend.

 

[beastmode]

I agree. I don't really know why he acts so arrogant and always keep up with those snide remarks. Doesn't he go to like VCU or somewhere like that and he was also a reapplicant?

easyyyy

VCU is a great school.

And there is nothing wrong with reapplicants. Better to see someone follow their dreams and try dental school twice then someone fail at getting into medical school once, then try dental school.

To the op,

There is nothing wrong with having a change of heart. I always knew that I wanted to get into the health care field but was unsure of what path I was going to take. I was in a similar situation as you with a lower GPA, but that in no way determined the path that I took. If I wanted to go to medical school, which I did not at all, I would have done everything in my power to get there. My point being, from your post it truly sounds like dentistry is a backup plan. With your stats dental school will still be very hard to get into. With the current trends, you will need to crack the 21 mark on the DAT in order to have a chance. It will be an expensive and time consuming process, make sure that you really want to do it. Shadow, but don't do it in a fancy high end office. This will give you a false representation of what you are getting into. Try to get into a clinic type atmosphere in an impoverished area or in an actual dental school.

 

[AggieDDS]

I agree. I'd notice many of the pre-dents here are way to competitive. Some will discourage you because they are afraid that you may take their spot. Hopefully, ADCOM will weed all of these folks out. Ignore the haters and just do what makes you happy. Shadow some Dentists to see if it is something you will like then do what you can to spike up your application. If you don't try, you will never know my friend.

Why is it that all the med school rejects come out to defend their buddies in these threads.

 

[Auron]

This is the prototypical pre med who feels/is unqualified to gain acceptance to med schools and believes that dentistry is a walk in the park. There is no effort to hide the arrogance and despite the excellent lip synching there is not much evidence that the new choice has been methodical/logical.

No, not at all. I do not believe that dental school, or being a dentist is a walk in the park at all. In fact, from what I have seen/read here, dental school may in fact be harder then medical school in a way due to the large number of labs and projects that dental students complete. However, from what I've seen so far I think I would enjoy my time in dental school a lot more simply because the material seems a lot more specific/focused, and interesting. I also know that the practice of dentistry is not easy due to its procedural nature (tiredness of hands) and other problems. The fact that I would only be treating the oral cavity is appealing to me as Its localized to one area - I don't need to worry about the whole body.

As for your comment about dentistry as my career choice: I didn't really consider dentistry all these years as I was always planning to go into medicine. Dentistry was never mentioned for whatever reason until I brought up the idea after going to a dentist one day for a check up, followed by a lot of research into the field. So essentially, I never considered dentistry simply because the idea had never occurred to me until recently. I respect dentists as they are medical professionals and perform a valuable service just as MD/DO's do. I have always viewed dentistry as a specialty of medicine (with the added perk of not having to do a residency unless you want to, awesome). I also like the idea of running my own business, and being in total control of my time and office. I also like that I could use my hands and perform various procedures, I think its really cool. I don't have to be on call like an MD, and generally, dentistry is more chill and in many ways allows a less stressful (and risky) lifestyle.

For the first time in ages, I am actually excited about pursuing a career in field X. I never really felt excited about medicine like I do dentistry. I am going to shadow my dentist to learn more about the field and get his advice as he is very experienced and teaches at a dental school. I have not applied to any medical or dental school yet, so its not like I didn't get into medical school and am applying to dental school. - I'm considering giving up the idea of medicine entirely and putting all my efforts into dentistry, a field I have genuine interest in.

As you are a practicing dentist tooth ache I respect your experience and knowledge, but please don't think that I'm making this decision without a lot of thought and soul searching. I want to be happy with my chosen career, and am taking time to make sure I choose correctly so I don't have regrets later.

Thanks everyone.

 

[doc3232]

This is the prototypical pre med who feels/is unqualified to gain acceptance to med schools and believes that dentistry is a walk in the park. There is no effort to hide the arrogance and despite the excellent lip synching there is not much evidence that the new choice has been methodical/logical.

To all those posting please consider the request of the OP. Like all of us, at one time or another, this person is at the crossroads and could use some advice.

My advice: Don't let Dr. toothache bother you. Some of his posts are very helpful but most of the time he is an arrogant prick.

I was thinking exactly what he (doc t) was thinking there. OP is making a huge assumption.

I agree. I don't really know why he acts so arrogant and always keep up with those snide remarks. Doesn't he go to like VCU or somewhere like that and he was also a reapplicant?

Again, not a snide remark...

 

[doc3232]

No, not at all. I do not believe that dental school, or being a dentist is a walk in the park at all. In fact, from what I have seen/read here, dental school may in fact be harder then medical school in a way due to the large number of labs and projects that dental students complete. However, from what I've seen so far I think I would enjoy my time in dental school a lot more simply because the material seems a lot more specific/focused, and interesting. I also know that the practice of dentistry is not easy due to its procedural nature (tiredness of hands) and other problems. The fact that I would only be treating the oral cavity is appealing to me as Its localized to one area - I don't need to worry about the whole body.

As for your comment about dentistry as my career choice: I didn't really consider dentistry all these years as I was always planning to go into medicine. Dentistry was never mentioned for whatever reason until I brought up the idea after going to a dentist one day for a check up, followed by a lot of research into the field. So essentially, I never considered dentistry simply because the idea had never occurred to me until recently. I respect dentists as they are medical professionals and perform a valuable service just as MD/DO's do. I have always viewed dentistry as a specialty of medicine (with the added perk of not having to do a residency unless you want to, awesome). I also like the idea of running my own business, and being in total control of my time and office. I also like that I could use my hands and perform various procedures, I think its really cool. I don't have to be on call like an MD, and generally, dentistry is more chill and in many ways allows a less stressful (and risky) lifestyle.

For the first time in ages, I am actually excited about pursuing a career in field X. I never really felt excited about medicine like I do dentistry. I am going to shadow my dentist to learn more about the field and get his advice as he is very experienced and teaches at a dental school. I have not applied to any medical or dental school yet, so its not like I didn't get into medical school and am applying to dental school. - I'm considering giving up the idea of medicine entirely and putting all my efforts into dentistry, a field I have genuine interest in.

As you are a practicing dentist tooth ache I respect your experience and knowledge, but please don't think that I'm making this decision without a lot of thought and soul searching. I want to be happy with my chosen career, and am taking time to make sure I choose correctly so I don't have regrets later.

Thanks everyone for your advice, it has been very helpful.

Just do the shadowing then reconsider.
I think if you enjoy what you say and can picture yourself HAPPILY doing it then stick with d-school.

good luck

 

[Jimmy Choo]

easyyyy

VCU is a great school.

And there is nothing wrong with reapplicants. Better to see someone follow their dreams and try dental school twice then someone fail at getting into medical school once, then try dental school.

To the op,

There is nothing wrong with having a change of heart. I always knew that I wanted to get into the health care field but was unsure of what path I was going to take. I was in a similar situation as you with a lower GPA, but that in no way determined the path that I took. If I wanted to go to medical school, which I did not at all, I would have done everything in my power to get there. My point being, from your post it truly sounds like dentistry is a backup plan. With your stats dental school will still be very hard to get into. With the current trends, you will need to crack the 21 mark on the DAT in order to have a chance. It will be an expensive and time consuming process, make sure that you really want to do it. Shadow, but don't do it in a fancy high end office. This will give you a false representation of what you are getting into. Try to get into a clinic type atmosphere in an impoverished area or in an actual dental school.

VCU has an average DAT of 18 and average GPA or 3.3. If that doesn't say below average, I don't know what does. On top of that, he was a reapplicant meaning he wasn't even competitive enough the first time. It's not that I'm complaining becuase he's a jerk; I'm just ticked off by the fact that he doesn't even have the right to be condescending to anyone, yet he does. What kind of world do we live in when someone that took two years to get into a dental school with 3.3 GPA and 18 DAT can act like a Rhode's scholar? I will go a step further in saying that I haven't even seen anyone on the predents.com with a resume that is less impressive than his. I appreciate him for pirating ADEA guide to dental school and posting the stats on this site, but that is about it.

I always find it funny when people chastize others and tell them what they should or shouldn't do. Why can't a pre-med student have dentistry as a back up plan? Because he doesn't have "love for dentistry?" Dental school admissions is not a Disney movie and adoms are not going to accept you because you love dentistry. If the pre-med student who switched has a resume that speaks for itself, you really think adcoms are gonna choose a pre-dental student with a worse resume just because the latter loves dentistry? Do you really think the profound love for the field of dentistry is a good predictor on what's going to make someone a good dentist? You sound so naive.

 

[Jimmy Choo]

My post included no argument on whether or not dental school acceptance is more difficult than med school acceptance let alone if it's on the same level. Did you read the OP's post? I did, and all I got from it was that they were pre-med, got bad grades, and what the heck they might as well try dental school since med school is out. It's that attitude that upsets a lot of pre-dents that work really hard to be where they are. Even if it is the OP's main motivation for switching, it's not something you say to other pre-dents out of common courtesy.

Please explain to me what gives those "pre-dents that work really hard to be where they are" the right to be upset. You said it yourself, med school is harder to get into than dental school. That's why the OP is thinking about switching to dental, where he could be more competitive. So if OP's GPA is good enough to be competitive at some mid-tier dental schools, how is OP less deserving of that spot than the pre-dents who have the same GPA? OP somehow didn't work as hard as other pre-dents that have the same GPA? Because they were pre-dental before the OP decided to be pre-dental? I am so curious to know why you think the pre-dents have any right to be upset or how they think they have some kind of entitlement to dental school admissions because they were pre-dental first. Please explain your logic.

 

[burnzee06]

Please explain to me what gives those "pre-dents that work really hard to be where they are" the right to be upset. You said it yourself, med school is harder to get into than dental school. That's why the OP is thinking about switching to dental, where he could be more competitive. So if OP's GPA is good enough to be competitive at some mid-tier dental schools, how is OP less deserving of that spot than the pre-dents who have the same GPA? OP somehow didn't work as hard as other pre-dents that have the same GPA? Because they were pre-dental before the OP decided to be pre-dental? I am so curious to know why you think the pre-dents have any right to be upset or how they think they have some kind of entitlement to dental school admissions because they were pre-dental first. Please explain your logic.

You are really putting a lot of words in my mouth.

To explain my logic, I will give you an example: I would never dream of implying that my education-major roommate has picked the easiest major- the fact that she never really studies and watches a movie every day says it loud and clear. But I would never (and could never) say that to her anyway. As I said before, it is common courtesy.

No where in my post did I say that I didn't think that the OP should have a fair shot at admissions. He/she is less deserving? Hasn't worked as hard? Where did I say any of this? I could care less about his reasons for wanting to enter this field. Seriously. The OP will surely be judged enough during the admissions process. Someone pointed out that there is some animosity between pre-dents and pre-meds who switch to dental school so I pointed out that it's so much more than that. It really has to do with the attitude that comes across. Med and dental are so close that it is completely understandable that people go back and forth. Heck, I would be mad at myself if that was the case because I was pre-med (in 9th grade haha). Further, I want everyone to apply to dental school- I think the field is awesome. I just want to make sure that the OP understands what it was what he/she said that is the exact reason for the often-misunderstood (obviously) hard feelings that exist there. Let me ask you this- if the OP went into an interview and his/her answer to "why dentistry" involved most of his original post, do you think he/she would get accepted? I would think not and if it's obviously inappropriate to say in that situation, then it's probably not something we want to hear, either. I would be just as offended if someone told me they were entering the field for the massive amounts of hard cash they would be making.

There will always be a prestige level difference between doctors and dentists and I understand that. I will never forget the look on my aunt's face when one of my family members said, "...we will have a doctor in the family" (referring to me, obv) and my aunt replied, "not a doctor.... a dentissssst" (insert nasty face, as if dentistry is gross).

 

[dent2009]

My post included no argument on whether or not dental school acceptance is more difficult than med school acceptance let alone if it's on the same level. Did you read the OP's post? I did, and all I got from it was that they were pre-med, got bad grades, and what the heck they might as well try dental school since med school is out. It's that attitude that upsets a lot of pre-dents that work really hard to be where they are. Even if it is the OP's main motivation for switching, it's not something you say to other pre-dents out of common courtesy.

Don't hate cause someone just "switches" over as opposed to having worked hard for years as a predent. They've worked hard for years as a pre-med also and realized they couldn't cut it and switched over to something "easier". If the OP is serious about dent school, then he'll figure out that admissions is not a walk in the park (or perhaps it will be for him, i don't know - it was easy for me). So let him spew out whatever he feels like for now.

In the end, premeds or predents, we're all aiming to become doctors. So if this OP had the potential to become a good physician, then he'll probably end up becoming a good dentist as well. Just a guess, but perhaps you're just mad because you lack the confidence in your own grades/DAT/future application and see this OP as somewhat of a threat in taking your spot.

Oh and about the common courtesy? please, just grow a thicker skin.

 

[burnzee06]

Don't hate cause someone just "switches" over as opposed to having worked hard for years as a predent. They've worked hard for years as a pre-med also and realized they couldn't cut it and switched over to something "easier". If the OP is serious about dent school, then he'll figure out that admissions is not a walk in the park (or perhaps it will be for him, i don't know - it was easy for me). So let him spew out whatever he feels like for now.

In the end, premeds or predents, we're all aiming to become doctors. So if this OP had the potential to become a good physician, then he'll probably end up becoming a good dentist as well. Just a guess, but perhaps you're just mad because you lack the confidence in your own grades/DAT/future application and see this OP as somewhat of a threat in taking your spot.

Oh and about the common courtesy? please, just grow a thicker skin.

??? There's not much of a difference between your post and mine. I agree with you, just like I agreed before that med school acceptance is more difficult. I can't "hate" on someone who switches from med-dent because (like I said above) I did it too, and would still consider the medical field. What I can do is point out when someone posts something slightly inconsiderate that is often the cause of a lot of ridiculous arguing. I don't need to, as you say, "grow thicker skin" because his comment didn't really bother me. He went on to name numerous benefits of dentistry and seems genuinely interested in the field. As annoying as it is to here someone say they are entering any field because it's easier/for the money, there will always be people who do it for those reasons.

I don't really care if someone is applying to dental school because it's easier... the point of my post was more just to clarify that the animosity is NOT just because someone switches but because of the attitude that dental school acceptance is easier. I think, in most ways, I am agreeing with you. One thing we can all agree on is that acceptance to any professional school is difficult.

My GPA is considerably higher than 3.3/3.0 and I am still worried about the app process. Aren't we all?

 

[SWIMnPOLO]

PreMeds are similar to Pre-Dental people... except that PreDents have personalities, a social life, superior communication skills, and will occasionally get a B in a class because life is too short to hang out in the Library all weekend.

The prestige just isn't worth it anymore. Plus, by the time Cardiologists and Anesthesiologists pay their $40k/year malpractice insurance payments, they're making the same or less than a Dentist. You have to spend a lot more time in court because idiots will sue you to try and get some easy money. You're either on call, working in some lame ass hospital around sick old people, or spending your 8-hour shift in the ER checking illegal immigrants with the flu. Noooo thank you.

 

[nydds25]

PreMeds are similar to Pre-Dental people... except that PreDents have personalities, a social life, superior communication skills, and will occasionally get a B in a class because life is too short to hang out in the Library all weekend.

The prestige just isn't worth it anymore. Plus, by the time Cardiologists and Anesthesiologists pay their $40k/year malpractice insurance payments, they're making the same or less than a Dentist. You have to spend a lot more time in court because idiots will sue you to try and get some easy money. You're either on call, working in some lame ass hospital around sick old people, or spending your 8-hour shift in the ER checking illegal immigrants with the flu. Noooo thank you.

C'mon now... I am going to Dental school this summer, but comments like this are why pre-dents on this forum have their panties in a bunch. You make baseless comments against another group of people, and it just makes you come of insecure that you could not cut it for med school. Perhaps you never wanted med school, but your comments scream insecurity. And did it ever occur to you, that many of the "pre-meds" who get A's, put in the same studying effort as "pre-dents" who get B's. Studying effort does not correlate with grades... some people just get better grades.

 

[Isradoc1983]

OP I have switched from Med to Dental. Moreover, I have done it after I have applied to Med Schools. I have talked to a dentist, and then I have shadowed her and decided that dent' is a better fit for me than med. Def' shadow a dentist. Don't listen to ppl in these forums who say that you're not good enough or w/e ( perhaps some of them aren't good enough to get in). As I said, I applied to both med and dental and got into the dental school I wanted. I withdrew my med applications even though I went to an interview and had other lined up. So yeah your gpa is on the low side, but with a good DAT you can def get somewhere, especially if you were doing well in the past 2 years. PM me if you want specifics

 

[lhtran07]

PreMeds are similar to Pre-Dental people... except that PreDents have personalities, a social life, superior communication skills, and will occasionally get a B in a class because life is too short to hang out in the Library all weekend.

The prestige just isn't worth it anymore. Plus, by the time Cardiologists and Anesthesiologists pay their $40k/year malpractice insurance payments, they're making the same or less than a Dentist. You have to spend a lot more time in court because idiots will sue you to try and get some easy money. You're either on call, working in some lame ass hospital around sick old people, or spending your 8-hour shift in the ER checking illegal immigrants with the flu. Noooo thank you.

My boyfriend is an M4 and is planning on specializing in anesthesiology. Anesthesiologists at the hospital I work at make about $650k-700k, no general dentist I know makes near that. Don't knock (pre)med students for not having a life...a lot of premeds/med students actually had a non-science major, are well-rounded, and have more time to party in med school than dental students.

Your comparison of dent/med is completely distasteful. There are many reasons why people prefer dent over med and vice versa....no need to go bashing med to make yourself feel better. I find your claims rather offensive and unjustified.

 

[NyCzPeter]

My boyfriend is an M4 and is planning on specializing in anesthesiology. Anesthesiologists at the hospital I work at make about $650k-700k, no general dentist I know makes near that.

No general dentist I know stays in school till they're 35 either...

 

[Mrbubbles]

No general dentist I know stays in school till they're 35 either...

LMAO. nice.

 

[kag930]

To the OP-
I used to be pre-med and switched to dentistry my sophomore year. It was a tough decision but I definitely think I made the right choice. By well known liberal arts school do you maybe mean Northwestern? Just a guess. If so, I'm a senior there and an IL resident and would be more than happy to talk with you about your dilemma, so go ahead and PM me if that is the case. I'll be attending dental school next year! (although still choosing between schools...)

 

[lhtran07]

No general dentist I know stays in school till they're 35 either...

That's very true and one of the reasons why I chose dentistry...no residency unless you want to, but to say that anesthesiologists make equal or less than dentists is crazy.

 

[dent2009]

My boyfriend is an M4 and is planning on specializing in anesthesiology. Anesthesiologists at the hospital I work at make about $650k-700k, no general dentist I know makes near that. Don't knock (pre)med students for not having a life...a lot of premeds/med students actually had a non-science major, are well-rounded, and have more time to party in med school than dental students....

btw, average anesthesiologist makes 300K (it's still more than what avg gen dent makes). Making 650-700K is a rarity.

Also what makes dentistry great is that there's no cap in income potential (if you have own office) as opposed to most physicians who are salary based.

 

[lhtran07]

It is a rarity...but in the southeast they can start out making $300k. Around here, many partners in groups that cover hospitals are in the 500-600K range (and I'm not even getting into pain clinics).

But enough about this....$$ shouldn't be what determines why you want to go into med/dent/pharm or whatever.

For me, it comes down to lifestyle and the type of work I'll be doing for the next 30 years. Family is important to me and dentistry offers me more time to spend with them. No call, residency is optional, I can go in at 7 or 8am and leave at 5pm. I'm my own boss...no hospital or insurance company telling me how to run my practice.

Patient care in dentistry is different than in medicine. Less managed care (ie, charting, ordering procedures/labs) and more hands-on treatment.

In the end, it all boils down to what your preferences are and which career is a better fit for you. If it's something you truly want to do, you can do it. It won't matter how hard it gets because you'll put your all into it.

 

[glk2101]

It is a rarity...but in the southeast they can start out making $300k. Around here, many partners in groups that cover hospitals are in the 500-600K range (and I'm not even getting into pain clinics).

But enough about this....$$ shouldn't be what determines why you want to go into med/dent/pharm or whatever.

For me, it comes down to lifestyle and the type of work I'll be doing for the next 30 years. Family is important to me and dentistry offers me more time to spend with them. No call, residency is optional, I can go in at 7 or 8am and leave at 5pm. I'm my own boss...no hospital or insurance company telling me how to run my practice.

Patient care in dentistry is different than in medicine. Less managed care (ie, charting, ordering procedures/labs) and more hands-on treatment.

In the end, it all boils down to what your preferences are and which career is a better fit for you. If it's something you truly want to do, you can do it. It won't matter how hard it gets because you'll put your all into it.

you can certainly make that amount of money doing a specialty in dentistry

 

[lhtran07]

you can certainly make that amount of money doing a specialty in dentistry

yes indeed! I hear pedo and prostho are great to go into. But that means staying on top of my grades and board scores for the next 4 years.

 

[charlestweed]

btw, average anesthesiologist makes 300K

Not in California. My cousin is an anesthesiologist. His work schedule is terrible. Just a week ago, the hospital woke him up at 3AM for an epidural procedure…the patient had mediCal and he only get paid $150. A lot of times he did not get paid for the procedures he performed b/c the patients were illegal immigrants….and he cannot decline the treatment. In dentistry, you can decline the HMO plans and you don’t have to treat the patients if they cannot afford the treatment.

I, too, used to be a premed. I used to wish I could be as smart as my cousin so I could become a doctor like him. I had to settle for dentistry b/c my GPA was only good enough for dental school (I took the MCAT twice but didn’t applied for med school). When I finished my orthodontic residency, I was surprised by the amount of money that my boss was willing to pay me for working as an associate orthodontist....and the lifestyle is….perfect.

 

[drpsuedonym]

The debate over whether med school or dental school is harder could probably use some facts. So, referencing a post from doc toothache (who else?), here's what we have:



Year #Sc Applicants Enroll Ratio cGPA sGPa

Dental 2007 56 12,010 4,599 2.61 3.54 3.48

MD 2007 129 42,315 17,759 2.38 3.65 3.59


So basically, dental school is harder to get into, with 2.61 applications for every available spot, compared to 2.38 for med school.
But the average GPA of med school students is higher, 0.11 higher for both cumulative and science.

Take from that what you will.

Original post here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=521462

 

[Jimmy Choo]

I, too, used to be a premed. I used to wish I could be as smart as my cousin so I could become a doctor like him. I had to settle for dentistry b/c my GPA was only good enough for dental school (I took the MCAT twice but didn’t applied for med school). When I finished my orthodontic residency, I was surprised by the amount of money that my boss was willing to pay me for working as an associate orthodontist....and the lifestyle is….perfect.

I applaud you for your honesty! I have noticed that people that are accomplished in the field of dentistry like yourself are more secure with themselves and have less resentment. The orthodontists and oral surgeons I have shadowed have no problem giving credit to MDs - hey, they were just better students, generally speaking. The insecure and bitter people are guys like doc toothache who barely, barley made it into dental school and feel the need to defend their mediocrity. They'll defend He would rather talk about all the fluff BS like how much experience he had in the field of dentistry or how he truly loves the art of dentistry. The truth is, he was one of the worst students in college with a very average resume. A sudden epiphany after college and some post-bac work or research excuses him from all the C's and B's he received in college? I would be willing to bet that his GPA was lower than OP's.

 

[DrReo]

Not in California. My cousin is an anesthesiologist. His work schedule is terrible. Just a week ago, the hospital woke him up at 3AM for an epidural procedure…the patient had mediCal and he only get paid $150. A lot of times he did not get paid for the procedures he performed b/c the patients were illegal immigrants….and he cannot decline the treatment. In dentistry, you can decline the HMO plans and you don’t have to treat the patients if they cannot afford the treatment.

I, too, used to be a premed. I used to wish I could be as smart as my cousin so I could become a doctor like him. I had to settle for dentistry b/c my GPA was only good enough for dental school (I took the MCAT twice but didn’t applied for med school). When I finished my orthodontic residency, I was surprised by the amount of money that my boss was willing to pay me for working as an associate orthodontist....and the lifestyle is….perfect.

Enlighten ???

 

[nydds25]

I applaud you for your honesty! I have noticed that people that are accomplished in the field of dentistry like yourself are more secure with themselves and have less resentment. The orthodontists and oral surgeons I have shadowed have no problem giving credit to MDs - hey, they were just better students, generally speaking. The insecure and bitter people are guys like doc toothache who barely, barley made it into dental school and feel the need to defend their mediocrity. They'll defend He would rather talk about all the fluff BS like how much experience he had in the field of dentistry or how he truly loves the art of dentistry. The truth is, he was one of the worst students in college with a very average resume. A sudden epiphany after college and some post-bac work or research excuses him from all the C's and B's he received in college? I would be willing to bet that his GPA was lower than OP's.

I love you... you are so feisty and stand up to these people. Makes you sounds really hot.

 

[armorshell]

I applaud you for your honesty! I have noticed that people that are accomplished in the field of dentistry like yourself are more secure with themselves and have less resentment. The orthodontists and oral surgeons I have shadowed have no problem giving credit to MDs - hey, they were just better students, generally speaking. The insecure and bitter people are guys like doc toothache who barely, barley made it into dental school and feel the need to defend their mediocrity. They'll defend He would rather talk about all the fluff BS like how much experience he had in the field of dentistry or how he truly loves the art of dentistry. The truth is, he was one of the worst students in college with a very average resume. A sudden epiphany after college and some post-bac work or research excuses him from all the C's and B's he received in college? I would be willing to bet that his GPA was lower than OP's.

Two things:
1. MD's do deserve respect. Gaining acceptance to medical school is incredibly hard (Yes, it's more challenging than getting into dental school, accept it people), and the process of becoming a licensed physician is incredibly rigorous and time consuming. The practice of medicine doesn't get too much better for many, with HMO, insurance, government control and everything else that's talked about ad nauseum. MD's deserve a lot of respect, because they're essential to society and the rewards they get aren't proportional to the service they do.

2. You're stereotyping doc toothache just as much as he is the OP. You've got this idea in your head of a jealous pre-dent out to prove he's "just as good", and seem willing to apply it to anyone who doesn't agree with your world view. While the average MD applicant is by all accounts "smarter" than the average dental applicant (GPA), theres certain to be a great deal of crossover where the two curves intersect. I can't count on two hands and feet how many of my classmates could have easily attended some very good medical schools with their undergrad stats, and you'll probably see the same thing wherever you attend.