Premed plan for software engineer looking to get into psych - please help

[pr1ncess]

This is a very long post with a lot of background detail so thanks for reading.

I am hoping to understand my chances of getting into top med schools either in the northeast (preferably) or west coast how I can improve my candidacy over the next 3 years while doing postbacc. I want to also understand what actual difference attending a top med school like Harvard vs a not top but still good school like UMass Chan or Zucker makes - is it about residency matching chances mainly? I also want to understand how I ought to prepare in the next year or so before going to a postbacc program which I will need to do.

I am a 28 year old engineering manager at a top tech startup in Japan. I was born and raised in the US, went to a top 50 US uni double majoring in Game Design & Computer Science with a minor in Japanese. I was an officer in a volunteering club and also founded a gaming club (more on that below). I had a 3.9 GPA but no science and very few math courses.

I interned at the US HQ of a FAANG company and then started full time as a software engineer at their Japan branch. I then switched to a top tech startup here in Japan and got promoted to engineering manager last year. I am currently on medical leave due to anxiety disorder and adjustment disorder to the Japanese work environment, and also severe burnout.

I plan to move back to the US in about a year and apply for a postbacc program there while working part-time as a medical scribe for hopefully a psychiatrist but if not, a GP. In the meantime, I plan to quit my job and sign up to become a volunteer for TELL which is the English-language suicide hotline in Japan. They have a 70 hour basic training program which is then followed by a minimum commitment of 10 hours a month. If I can, I will also try to shadow/part-time work with an English-speaking psychiatrist or GP here in Japan but chances are pretty slim I think. I am also studying for the MCAT via some Youtube videos.

As for "extracurriculars" I'm far out of school but I like hiking/camping, travel, cooking, photography, and gaming. I'm top 20 in Japan for one game and compete regularly in tournaments and I plan to start streaming and hopefully use it as a platform to talk about mental health.

While I'm still in Japan for the next year, is there anything else that I should be doing to prepare? Will I have enough clinical hours? When I do a postbacc should I do it part time and work part time as a medical scribe for example?

I'd like to use this thread as "my space" to track and get advice on my journey into a postbacc program and prepping for med school. Thanks for any help.


As for why I want to switch - I want to help others who may have gone through, or are going through, something similar to what I experienced growing up as an LGBTQ immigrant abused child. I am personally very interested in psychology, and spend a lot of free time reading and thinking about mental health, therapy, trauma, and PTSD. In addition, I come from a family of TCM doctors, and I grew up learning about the symptoms of different diseases, how different drugs work, and also a strong focus on holistic and preventative medicine and blending Western medicine with TCM. While my current job pays well, I feel immense stress regarding delivering products on a deadline and "maximizing shareholder value." I'm sick and tired of mining user data just to show them personalized ads that subconsciously manipulate their spending habits. I hate being owned by investors and trying to hit KPIs every quarter.

As a doctor I'd love to combine doing some clinical work and also research on non-drug treatment methods (hopefully some statistical or ML based stuff that can utilize my programming background).

Of course, I am working with my therapist and psychiatrist now on getting to a place where I am able to work at all - I know that being a doctor has its own stress but I genuinely believe, and know from other doctors in my family, that the kind of stress that comes with it is very different than working in a cutthroat corporate environment.

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[gyngyn]

The school you attend does not decide your fate in medicine (unlike law).
No one can give you odds of success without more information. Here's what we would need:*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*
When you have that info, post a thread in WAMC!

 

[jhmmd]

This is a very long post with a lot of background detail so thanks for reading.

I am hoping to understand my chances of getting into top med schools either in the northeast (preferably) or west coast how I can improve my candidacy over the next 3 years while doing postbacc. I want to also understand what actual difference attending a top med school like Harvard vs a not top but still good school like UMass Chan or Zucker makes - is it about residency matching chances mainly? I also want to understand how I ought to prepare in the next year or so before going to a postbacc program which I will need to do.

I am a 28 year old engineering manager at a top tech startup in Japan. I was born and raised in the US, went to a top 50 US uni double majoring in Game Design & Computer Science with a minor in Japanese. I was an officer in a volunteering club and also founded a gaming club (more on that below). I took zero science courses in college, and the only math exposure is AP Calc BC (scored 5), college Statistics, and college Discrete Mathematics. I also took AP Physics C (scored 5 on mechanics, 4 on EM), and AP Bio (scored 3). In high school, I participated in science research and presented at some local science fairs - I did research on the gene expression of the mu-opiate receptor in mussels when treated with some standard TCM herbal medicine formulas for pain. I scored 2340 on my SAT and in college I had a 3.9 GPA.

I interned at the US HQ of a FAANG company and then started full time as a software engineer at their Japan branch. I then switched to a top tech startup here in Japan and got promoted to engineering manager last year. I am currently on medical leave due to anxiety disorder and adjustment disorder to the Japanese work environment, and also severe burnout.

I plan to move back to the US in about a year and apply for a postbacc program there while working part-time as a medical scribe for hopefully a psychiatrist but if not, a GP. In the meantime, I plan to quit my job and sign up to become a volunteer for TELL which is the English-language suicide hotline in Japan. They have a 70 hour basic training program which is then followed by a minimum commitment of 10 hours a month. If I can, I will also try to shadow/part-time work with an English-speaking psychiatrist or GP here in Japan but chances are pretty slim I think. I am also studying for the MCAT via some Youtube videos.

As for "extracurriculars" I'm far out of school but I like hiking/camping, travel, cooking, photography, and gaming. I'm top 20 in Japan for one game and compete regularly in tournaments and I plan to start streaming and hopefully use it as a platform to talk about mental health.

While I'm still in Japan for the next year, is there anything else that I should be doing to prepare? Will I have enough clinical hours? When I do a postbacc should I do it part time and work part time as a medical scribe for example?

I'd like to use this thread as "my space" to track and get advice on my journey into a postbacc program and prepping for med school. Thanks for any help.


As for why I want to switch - during this period of medical leave, I have put together a lot of what I've been learning over the past 5 years of therapy and my own reading to recognize the severe physical, emotional, and financial abuse that I suffered as a child. I am grieving, yet I am also invigorated and feel a calling to help others who may have gone through, or are going through, something similar to what I experienced growing up as an LGBTQ immigrant child. I am personally very interested in psychology, and spend a lot of free time reading and thinking about mental health, therapy, trauma, and PTSD. In addition, I come from a family of TCM doctors, and I grew up learning about the symptoms of different diseases, how different drugs work, and also a strong focus on holistic and preventative medicine and blending Western medicine with TCM. While my current job pays well, I feel immense stress regarding delivering products on a deadline and "maximizing shareholder value." I'm sick and tired of mining user data just to show them personalized ads that subconsciously manipulate their spending habits. I hate being owned by investors and trying to hit KPIs every quarter.

I just don't feel that I am making a positive impact on society, I do not feel like my work is meaningful, and also I do not feel that the people-oriented side of my skillset is being used well at all. As a doctor I think I could really help others in a way that is meaningful to me and I also have some philosophical ideas about preventative and holistic medicine vs the prevailing model of treating symptoms with targeted drugs. I'd love to combine doing some clinical work and also research on non-drug treatment methods (hopefully some statistical or ML based stuff that can utilize my programming background).

Of course, I am working with my therapist and psychiatrist now on getting to a place where I am able to work at all - I know that being a doctor has its own stress but I genuinely believe, and know from other doctors in my family, that the kind of stress that comes with it is very different than working in a cutthroat corporate environment.

SDN is not for medical advice. If you are feeling stressed out to the point where you feel like you cannot function, then you need to get help.
As @gyngyn said above, this thread means nothing without a MCAT score.

 

[Goro]

This is a very long post with a lot of background detail so thanks for reading.

I am hoping to understand my chances of getting into top med schools either in the northeast (preferably) or west coast how I can improve my candidacy over the next 3 years while doing postbacc. I want to also understand what actual difference attending a top med school like Harvard vs a not top but still good school like UMass Chan or Zucker makes - is it about residency matching chances mainly? I also want to understand how I ought to prepare in the next year or so before going to a postbacc program which I will need to do.

For starters, what you did in high school doesn't count. SAT doesn't count

What you need are 50 ish hours of shadowing doctors
150+ hours of clinical exposure (volunteer or paid)
150+ hrs of service to others less fortunate than yourself.
Doing well in your post-bac
Doing well on the MCAT

Attending the Really Top Schools give you a boost to get into the top academic residency sites and into the uber-specialties.

But your job is to get into A medical school. The graduates from my DO program still make the same salaries as those who went to Harvard in the same specialties.

Forget about thinking about residencies now. Wat until you're in medical school for that.

And do NOT apply to medical school util your mental health issues are under 100% control. Medical school is a furnace, and I've seen it break even healthy students. The #1 reason my school loses students to withdrawal, dismissal or LOA is to unresolved mental health issues.

Read this:
Med School Rx: Getting In, Getting Through, and Getting On with Doctoring Original Edition by Walter Hartwig
ISBN-13: 978-1607140627
ISBN-10: 1607140624

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It is great you are thinking that far ahead, but your options will be limited in Japan unless you wind up finding connections to work on a US military base hospital. I think if you are planning on doing things back in the US, that will help you. You can do community service while in Japan as long as you can continue to spare that time and do similar activities back in the states with underserved or historically excluded groups. In-person service is always preferred over virtual or phone-based, even though the latter is valuable; personal engagement is really key. You can take advantage of "virtual shadowing" or informational interviewing while you are out of the US, but plan on making some coffee appointments once you hit the states. Address your academics and MCAT prep once you in the US as doing it overseas will not help you. You can look up postbac programs once you are in the US, but make sure they provide appropriate support for you (academically and mental wellness) at least.

@Goro put the minimum expectations of hours documented on the application. Note the hours are cumulative but the more recent your experiences are, the more insight we can gain about your current motivation. It's not fair to judge your application based on a spelling test you didn't badly on in second grade, so while you have to disclose your entire academic history, what you did lately is going to be more in the spotlight.

 

[pr1ncess]

About “service to those less fortunate” - is this really about in person classic “soup kitchen” type service? For example I’ve made a website for a charity and also done some translation work.

Also time spent managing, planning, and organizing events for my volunteer club in college? And what about volunteering experience from high school?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

About “service to those less fortunate” - is this really about in person classic “soup kitchen” type service? For example I’ve made a website for a charity and also done some translation work.

Also time spent managing, planning, and organizing events for my volunteer club in college? And what about volunteering experience from high school?

As I note, your cumulative work is probably not going to be an issue, but we want to know what you have done lately to build on that great start. (High school hours likely won't count as much as undergraduate, but what you have done the last two years will have more value.) Fundraising is not always viewed the same way as direct service to the community.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

About “service to those less fortunate” - is this really about in person classic “soup kitchen” type service? For example I’ve made a website for a charity and also done some translation work.

Also time spent managing, planning, and organizing events for my volunteer club in college? And what about volunteering experience from high school?

Yes, "service to the less fortunate" means classic in-person soup kitchen (or Habitat for Humanity, or food bank, or homeless outreach....) type activities. Virtual activities like website design should not make up the bulk of your nonclinical volunteering/community service hours.

The administrative role you held with your volunteer club could be counted towards leadership hours. Activities from high school don't really count unless you continued your service through college.

I note from your first post that you've had no shadowing or clinical exposure yet. Shadowing really needs to be your first step after you return to the US, prior to enrolling in a post-bac or prepping for the MCAT. Without shadowing and/or substantial clinical exposure (e.g., scribing), it's impossible to make an informed decision about whether medicine is a good option for you.

 

[Goro]

About “service to those less fortunate” - is this really about in person classic “soup kitchen” type service? For example I’ve made a website for a charity and also done some translation work.

Yes, it is.
Honestly, I'm underwhelmed by what you've done so far.

Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimer’s or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Service need not be "unique"; it can be anything that helps people unable to help themselves and that is outside of a patient-care setting. If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients.

Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Also time spent managing, planning, and organizing events for my volunteer club in college? And what about volunteering experience from high school?

No and no

 

[pr1ncess]

Thanks for the insights. Would the following could towards service hours?

1. Suicide hotline mentioned in OP. I understand it’s not in person but it is clearly working directly with those less fortunate than myself.
2. Assisting and leading blind people throughout the city and their day on foot.
3. Teaching children from shelters and broken homes how to code and also English in person or remotely.
4. Planning, organizing, and running events from Women in Engineering groups at the companies I worked out teaching women how to code.
5. Political activism with urban planning groups advocating for better city design.

Just trying to understand what would count and what doesn’t. Thanks again.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Thanks for the insights. Would the following could towards service hours?

1. Suicide hotline mentioned in OP. I understand it’s not in person but it is clearly working directly with those less fortunate than myself.
2. Assisting and leading blind people throughout the city and their day on foot.
3. Teaching children from shelters and broken homes how to code and also English in person or remotely.
4. Planning, organizing, and running events from Women in Engineering groups at the companies I worked out teaching women how to code.
5. Political activism with urban planning groups advocating for better city design.

Just trying to understand what would count and what doesn’t. Thanks again.

You can count whatever you want towards service hours. You get to choose how you categorize activities on your application.

The issue is how admissions committees will evaluate an activity and whether they will agree that it is A. a true service activity and B. a worthwhile experience overall. As I and others have said, in-person >> virtual ECs. You should also be aware that many adcoms are lukewarm on international ECs, though there are some notable exceptions like Peace Corps. You can certainly get started with community service while living abroad and it wouldn't be wrong to report those hours on your application, but you should plan on gaining most of your hours after you return to the US.

After all, many medical schools have missions of service to underserved populations in the United States. By applying to these schools, you are arguing that you meet this mission, and your ECs need to reflect that.

But, since you asked, my $0.02 is that 4 and 5 would be best categorized as "leadership", not community service.