Premed with schizophrenia

[synlor]

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Hi all,
I currently am a premed student at UNL, and everything has gone very well so far. The only prerequisites I haven't completed are my 2 semesters of physics, and I am a math major who is good at science, so I envision getting As. My GPA is sitting at a 3.98 (stupid A-) and from practice MCATs I am getting in the mid 30s range. I have plenty of intense research experience both in biology and math in independent and group settings. My plan is to pursue an M.D./Ph.D. program somewhere in the midwest region, and I feel I am well qualified and have a good chance at getting into a program.

The only problem is I have schizophrenia, with symptoms starting a little over a year ago. I have been getting treatment, but I have relapsed several times over the past year and have had several hospitalizations. My doctor is heavily recommending that I take a semester off, which I plan on doing just so I can get stabilized in a long term situation. I agree with this plan and think it will do me well. Most of my symptoms are gone, no delusions/paranoia, the only relapsing symptom are the voices, and I am learning to be able to ignore it. So at this point I feel I will make a fairly complete recovery and will be capable of completing med school, of course by continuing to take my medication.

My question is, do you think I even have a chance at being accepted into an M.D. program, let alone an M.D./Ph.D. program? Should I keep this disease hidden from med schools, or should I embrace it? I have 5 Ws spread over the last two semesters as a result of hospitalizations, so if I keep it a secret how do I explain those?

Any comments are welcome, thank you.

 

[bruceleehiiiyaa]

how will you know if your interviews are real or just figments of your imagination???

Hi all,
I currently am a premed student at UNL, and everything has gone very well so far. The only prerequisites I haven't completed are my 2 semesters of physics, and I am a math major who is good at science, so I envision getting As. My GPA is sitting at a 3.98 (stupid A-) and from practice MCATs I am getting in the mid 30s range. I have plenty of intense research experience both in biology and math in independent and group settings. My plan is to pursue an M.D./Ph.D. program somewhere in the midwest region, and I feel I am well qualified and have a good chance at getting into a program.

The only problem is I have schizophrenia, with symptoms starting a little over a year ago. I have been getting treatment, but I have relapsed several times over the past year and have had several hospitalizations. My doctor is heavily recommending that I take a semester off, which I plan on doing just so I can get stabilized in a long term situation. I agree with this plan and think it will do me well. Most of my symptoms are gone, no delusions/paranoia, the only relapsing symptom are the voices, and I am learning to be able to ignore it. So at this point I feel I will make a fairly complete recovery and will be capable of completing med school, of course by continuing to take my medication.

My question is, do you think I even have a chance at being accepted into an M.D. program, let alone an M.D./Ph.D. program? Should I keep this disease hidden from med schools, or should I embrace it? I have 5 Ws spread over the last two semesters as a result of hospitalizations, so if I keep it a secret how do I explain those?

Any comments are welcome, thank you.

 

[Rebs28]

how will you know if your interviews are real or just figments of your imagination???

Charming, douchenozzle.

To the OP, I think that if you can get and stay stabilized on good meds that you will be able to take for years to come, there's no reason that you can't become an MD. Stability is key, and I think that lack of stability/noncompliance with treatment are the main reason that problems can come up at licensing for people with mental illness.

I'd focus on getting well for now, but do know that once you are stable and ready to apply, it's your choice whether you will disclose or not. As for the W's, you can explain them as health related, and you can (vaguely or specifically) explain that you were struggling with health problems which you have (by that time) overcome/gotten under control/etc.

Don't let stigma get you down, but be aware that it's out there, and MDs and admissions people are not immune from being blinded by it. I wish you all the best in finding the right treatment plan for you, and in working toward your (attainable!) goals.

 

[starfishprime]

My question is, do you think I even have a chance at being accepted into an M.D. program, let alone an M.D./Ph.D. program? Should I keep this disease hidden from med schools, or should I embrace it?

...

Any comments are welcome, thank you.

IMO, psychotic disorder is an absolute contraindication to becoming a physician.

 

[DeadliestSnatch]

I wish I had something nice to tell you. 🙁 But I just don't think med schools are going to embrace your condition. I guess you could "hide" it, but like you said, you're going to have to somehow explain those hospitalizations, and that's a whole lotta lying.

Hmmm. This is tough, but if I were in your shoes and I REALLY wanted to go to med school, I'd probably come up with some huge lie for the W's on your record. It may not be the ethical thing to do, but I think a lot of people here would do it.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

IMO, psychotic disorder is an absolute contraindication to becoming a physician.

then let's be glad your opinion doesn't matter.

I agree with the other poster, condition management and stability are key!

One thing you could do is contact a couple medical schools that you won't apply to (get a few to get a consensus) and just straight up ask them what they think about applicants with your condition. I think that would be the easiest way to get information.

I wish you the best of luck!

 

[witness23]

i like to think there's hope for everyone. your grades are stellar. I'm not a doctor yet and I cannot comment how schizophrenia will affect your life as a physician. However, if you are interested in md/phd, or just research, an easy alternative would be a phd. you would still get to do research and its less of a people setting. I'm not sure if that would interest you. I'm just saying that is one possible option, that you probably have thought of already.

 

[Brent8927]

Hey OP,

I think you can definitely get into medical school, though you will probably have more of a hurdle than most to get over. But when your heart is set on something, I think anything is attainable.

One suggestion I have is if you do disclose your history and condition to adcoms, it might be helpful if you have a psychiatrist (or more than one) who is/are fully in agreement that your condition will not prevent you from being a fully functional physician. This might help any uneasy adcoms feel more comfortable advocating for your acceptance into their program.

Good luck! 🙂

 

[LilHouse]

IMO, psychotic disorder is an absolute contraindication to becoming a physician.

I'd like to think that people would generally notice and begin to ask questions when a doctor starts talking about little green men 😀, but they're probably much less likely to notice the one who gives someone klonopin instead of clonidine or the one who fails to realize when someone is slipping into shock. (Psychosis doesn't necessarily impair intellect, and like intellect, it's a sliding scale sort of thing)

 

[apumic]

OP,

What has your psychiatrist said about you and medical school? Does s/he think you would be able to succeed as a physician? I would not worry so much about your getting through medical school itself as about your ability to maintain stability in a high-stress, life-or-death environment where you are responsible for people's lives and managing people who are also responsibility for those same patients. I do not have articles in front of me at the moment to support this so I could be wrong, but as I recall, psychosocial stressors are known to both trigger and aggravate psychotic symptoms. Considering the workload of most medical specialties, I, unfortunately, would not be very positive about your chances at success. While medical school itself would likely be stressful enough to aggravate your symptoms greatly, I would be far more concerned about your actual professional work since it involves human lives and a psychotic break there could be disasterous and not simply require withdrawing from a class!
Additionally, I don't know which antipsychotic you are on, but in my experience working in a psychiatric facility, patients on those drugs tend to have a very flat affect and are less responsive (or innapropriately responsive) overall. This may give your interviewers the feeling that "something isn't right." I know I can usually spot a patient on psychotropics (and at least identify the class of drug) long before I actually administer anything to them. Drugs such as antipsychotic and antianxiety meds are especially easy to identify due to their tell-tale side effects. I wish you luck, though, in whatever endeavors you follow!


Edit:

(Psychosis doesn't necessarily impair intellect)

I totally agree! Actually, many psych in-patients are extremely intelligent and insightful. Many an observer has realized that these people are often extremely creative and have insight into problems that most of us miss.
There is a well-known story of a man whose car got a flat tire in the middle of nowhere near a psychiatric hospital. A psychotic man was looking out through the fence and saw the man get out of his car, which he had parked on the side of the road. The man on the side of the road then got out his jack and jacked the car up. He began removing the lugnuts from the first wheel and placed them on the roadside. He then went to get his spare but, upon returning, found that the 4 lugnuts had all rolled into a drain nearby. The man then began to panic and wasn't sure what to do, when he heard the psychotic man shout from across the fence, "Why don't you just take one lugnut from each of the other 3 tires and put it on the spare?"
I have no clue whether or not the story is true, but I have noticed that the majority of the time, many psych patients are actually quite functional. The problems arise when they have to manage some sort of "crisis." My concern, though, would be that those crises would occur at a greatly-increased frequency in a high-stress setting such as a hospital.

 

[Mistress S]

Hi synlor,

I have no personal issue with you becoming an MD, provided you are stable on your medication (which does not sound like it is currently the case, if you were diagnosed only a year ago and have already relapsed and been hospitalized several times). However, the biggest obstacle I see to your goal is licensing- you are required to disclose this information (medical or psychiatric conditions that could affect your ability to practice) when you apply for your medical license. Medical schools know this and will likely be understandably reluctant to admit someone to their school who may not be able to attain licensure. I'm not saying that listing this on your license application is an automatic rejection, I don't know exactly how it would be viewed and it would probably depend somewhat on the individual state. But it is likely to be viewed with a great deal of concern and trepidation by a state licensing board. At minimum, I would expect that they would request information from your doctors attesting to your ability to practice; if you are as unstable as you currently seem to be (relapsing every few months), I doubt any competent physician would vouch for you. I suppose you could try to hide this information, but if it ever comes out, you would immediately lose your license and likely face serious consequences for fraud.

It sounds like right now, you really need to focus on getting stable and not worry about med school. Once your mental health needs are addressed, you should discuss this with trusted advisors and your personal physician(s) to help determine if med school is in the best interests of both you and your future patients. If you are interested in research primarily, it may be better to pursue a Ph.D. only; the MD is really not necessary. You are obviously intelligent, but med school is a very stressful environment even for those without pre-existing psychiatric conditions, and in your case it may not be the best idea for your health. Congratulations on your academic achievements in spite of your illness, and good luck in figuring out the right path in life.

 

[loveoforganic]

I'd rather have a brilliant, psychotic physician take care of me than a mediocre one.

No you wouldn't. Just to be clear, having schizophrenia and undergoing a psychotic episode aren't the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis


@OP - I don't think pre-allo is the best place for this. It's likely no one here really has enough knowledge to help you.

Practicing Physicians forum -
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=511

Psychiatry forum -
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=44

And I agree with one thing said above - I think it'd be a great idea to contact a medical school you have no intentions of applying to and talking candidly with them about your situation. I'd also recommend finding a psychiatrist or psychologist you can make a good relationship with. They would probably be able to advise you better than anyone else.

Good luck, hope everything works out. Your stats are great 🙂

 

[Van Chowder]

IMO, psychotic disorder is an absolute contraindication to becoming a physician.

Psychiatric?

 

[majahops]

No, he meant psychotic. But he's still a jerk.

Psychiatric?

 

[starfishprime]

No, he meant psychotic. But he's still a jerk.

That does not follow.

 

[majahops]

That does not follow.

(Jerk) x 2... even if you are a sexy jerk. 🙂

 

[Handy388]

No, he meant psychotic. But he's still a jerk.

any condition that may interfer with rational decision making should be a contradiction to becoming a MD.

Would you let someone who hear "voices" and have regular relapses fly a plane full of people instead?

Oh yeah, House,M.D. prepregate the whole idea of "brilliant but crazy" stereotype. It does not work in real life. Most day to day practice of medicine does not require extreme intelligence, but they do require a stable psyche.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Being a little bit "outside the box" could make for a great scientist. Most scientists that I've seen aren't completely normal anyway.

 

[slight365]

I had a gf that had schizophrenia. It was quite interesting. Gave me a lot of insight into what it does to people.

 

[Rendar5]

Here's my question: when you're running around on little sleep working 80 hour weeks with a sometimes fluctuating schedule under tons and tons of stress, are you gonna have a break? We're talking a disease where oftentimes you need someone who is not you to recognize the emergence of a break, and where breaks sometime partly consist of you convincing yourself that you don't need medication. See what your psychiatrists honestly say about the chances of you being able to maintain control of your illness in a high-stress field where you are responsible for caring for others. I have no idea what they'll think. Schizophrenia is a very very diverse disease in the way it behaves, and only someone who knows you really well for a long period of time and knows the disease really well can really give you your answers.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Here's my question: when you're running around on little sleep working 80 hour weeks with a sometimes fluctuating schedule under tons and tons of stress, are you gonna have a break? We're talking a disease where oftentimes you need someone who is not you to recognize the emergence of a break, and where breaks sometime partly consist of you convincing yourself that you don't need medication. See what your psychiatrists honestly say about the chances of you being able to maintain control of your illness in a high-stress field where you are responsible for caring for others. I have no idea what they'll think. Schizophrenia is a very very diverse disease in the way it behaves, and only someone who knows you really well for a long period of time and knows the disease really well can really give you your answers.

This is a key point. Pre-meds on this forum will (naturally) focus on the formidable hurdle of getting into medical school. The real hurdle, IMO, is going to be the actual training itself.

And for the "I'm ok/you're ok/we're all ok" people out there spouting the party line that anyone should and can be a doctor - the majority of schizophrenics have some pretty serious cognitive issues as a result of their disease. Not all do, and as mentioned in the quoted post, none of us are in a place to judge the OP's condition. But it's not like someone just sees the occasional hallucination and is otherwise fine - this is a devastating disease with a variety of effects on ability to function.

 

[BlackSails]

Medical schools will be very wary about letting someone in who might not be able to get licensed and practice. I would talk to your doctor about this, especially the effects of the long hours and irregular schedule might be. If he thinks you will be ok, I think you should have him write a letter explaining that you are stable on your medication, he thinks it is ok, etc, etc.

 

[not so calm now]

Someone should really close this thread. Nothing good is going to come from this. The OP has a problem that goes far beyond the normal depression questions. This is something that no one in the pre-allo forum is qualified to answer, and OP, I would be highly suspicious of the advice you're receiving here. No one knows what you're going through. You have a serious mental illness and you need to talk to some sort of advisor with experience with schizophrenia.

 

[not respect]

if anyone saw the season finale of house, he thought he had schizophrenia but he couldn't take meds or else they would take his license or something. maybe thats real

 

[Suenya]

Have you considered going straight PhD instead of MD or MD/PhD? If you are interested in research, I think there would be fewer possible barriers to entry because of the lack of clinical responsibility.

I am not saying that's the only option, just that it might be a simpler one if you want to do research.

 

[Stixman28]

However, the biggest obstacle I see to your goal is licensing- you are required to disclose this information (medical or psychiatric conditions that could affect your ability to practice) when you apply for your medical license.

Can you speak a little more to this Mistress: Folks have to disclose everything? like if they went to a therapist, or psychiatrist at any point in their lives? or just if they were addicted to narcotics or, as you say, conditions that could affect your ability to practice?

How do they conduct that investigation? Do they dig around in insurance records? Or just ask you for full disclosure?

Luckily, I don't have much to hide. Also, I know plenty of docs on anti-depressants, and they are fully licensed no problem.

 

[swamprat]

Watch the movie, A Beautiful Mind 👍

 

[Bildo]

I would definitely agree with the above...even if worst case that prevents you from receiving an M.D., you definitely have a future as a researcher.

P.h.d's (and doctoral students) definitely (though the hurdles might be higher than others face) have a lot more wiggle room for sudden temporary withdrawals or postponed work than a medical doctor might have.

And of course, they might even make something like the Brilliant Mind out of your life.

And by extension I'd hope adcoms would realize that MD/PHD would fit you perfectly if you wanted to do research.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

if anyone saw the season finale of house, he thought he had schizophrenia but he couldn't take meds or else they would take his license or something. maybe thats real

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Watch the movie, A Beautiful Mind 👍

not to play devil's advocate, but (a) it was a highly fictionalized movie and (b) John Nash did nearly all of his serious scholarship prior to symptom onset, spent years bouncing in and out of hospitals, lost his marriage, and had his son go on to develop the same disease...

 

[richse]

Here's my question: when you're running around on little sleep working 80 hour weeks with a sometimes fluctuating schedule under tons and tons of stress, are you gonna have a break? We're talking a disease where oftentimes you need someone who is not you to recognize the emergence of a break, and where breaks sometime partly consist of you convincing yourself that you don't need medication. See what your psychiatrists honestly say about the chances of you being able to maintain control of your illness in a high-stress field where you are responsible for caring for others. I have no idea what they'll think. Schizophrenia is a very very diverse disease in the way it behaves, and only someone who knows you really well for a long period of time and knows the disease really well can really give you your answers.

Some of the problems cited could be alleviated by the OP using one of the depot antipsychotics that are available. They deliver meds steadily for 3 weeks or a month depending on which he/she takes and should help with the problem of adherence to medication. Some studies actually suggest they are better than pills because you don't get the daily burst flucuations in drug levels. Some caveats are that the injections are not reversible so if you want off the meds you have to wait out the duration (about a month). Also, they are only available in a couple of drugs (risperidal, haloperidol, and one other that i can't remember). The OP would need to make sure one of the three depots actually work for him.

 

[swamprat]

not to play devil's advocate, but (a) it was a highly fictionalized movie and (b) John Nash did nearly all of his serious scholarship prior to symptom onset, spent years bouncing in and out of hospitals, lost his marriage, and had his son go on to develop the same disease...

really? damn i guess thats what they mean by "based on a true story"

 

[pianola]

The only person qualified to to assess whether you would be a competent physician is a licensed MD (probably a psychiatrist).

I could see how symptoms of psychosis might interfere with your ability to practice, but obviously, I have no way of knowing the severity of your particular symptoms or how well your medication is working for you.

Basically, I think it's in your best interest to collaborate closely with your personal physician or physicians.

Good job with the grades, though! I mean 3.98 is nothing to sneeze at my friend. You should be proud of your work.

 

[switcheroo]

OP, others have done what you're proposing to do. It's not impossible, though it may be difficult. Read the book "The Eden Express" by Mark Vonnegut (son of Kurt Vonnegut)--an autiobiographical account of Mark's schizophrenia, and a story that ends with him becoming a pediatrician.

 

[tiedyeddog]

OP, others have done what you're proposing to do. It's not impossible, though it may be difficult. Read the book "The Eden Express" by Mark Vonnegut (son of Kurt Vonnegut)--an autiobiographical account of Mark's schizophrenia, and a story that ends with him becoming a pediatrician.

I just looked it up on amazon... I think I might purchase it and "The Quiet Room".

 

[BlackSails]

Can you speak a little more to this Mistress: Folks have to disclose everything? like if they went to a therapist, or psychiatrist at any point in their lives? or just if they were addicted to narcotics or, as you say, conditions that could affect your ability to practice?

How do they conduct that investigation? Do they dig around in insurance records? Or just ask you for full disclosure?

Luckily, I don't have much to hide. Also, I know plenty of docs on anti-depressants, and they are fully licensed no problem.

As far as I know you have to disclose anything that could interfere with your responsibilities as a physician.

 

[pianola]

As far as I know you have to disclose anything that could interfere with your responsibilities as a physician.

I remember hearing that you don't have to discuss having a diagnosis of major depression IFF the you are considered as having effectively "controlled" the symptoms.

I imagine that could be extrapolated to any illness (mental or otherwise) [i.e. if you've controlled the symptoms you don't have to list it on residency apps].

 

[dw2158]

This.

On a slightly related note, my friend was diagnosed with schizophrenia in her early 20s after a history of escalating symptoms. She had a rough few years of it, and I'm sure every day is still a battle for her, but outwardly she is extremely competent, rational, and professional in her daily interactions. She has finally found a treatment regimen that works for her (involved much tinkering with meds and the balance of meds). Quite honestly, I'd trust her with my life. She's one of the smartest people I've ever met. She was never interested in a career in medicine, though.

Schizophrenia is extremely diverse, ill-understood, and maligned by society at large. It is partly this stigma that lends to schizophrenics having such an alarmingly high rate of self-harm compared to their peers. In this thread alone, from posts made by would-be medical professionals, you can see why people with this illness face such an uphill battle in this world. Even if it's in "fun," on an anonymous message board, it's totally abhorrent to me. I can take a joke as well as the next person, but seeing my best friend deal with this every day makes me view the condition on a different level.

great post!

OP, i agree with others who posted here that you should speak to your psychiatrist about this. but from the brief description of yourself that you provided, it seems like even when you're struggling, you're together enough to get help and keep your head above water. i wish you a lot of luck in this process! don't give up on it based on what people are saying here; talk and think it over extensively. i'm not going to give you the stupid "you can do anything if you put your mind to it" speech, but i will say that i don't believe being mentally ill CATEGORICALLY forbids your practicing medicine. i hope you're able to work on your situation so that you're one of the lucky ones who can function highly and succeed as a doctor! 👍

 

[Mistress S]

Can you speak a little more to this Mistress: Folks have to disclose everything? like if they went to a therapist, or psychiatrist at any point in their lives? or just if they were addicted to narcotics or, as you say, conditions that could affect your ability to practice?

How do they conduct that investigation? Do they dig around in insurance records? Or just ask you for full disclosure?

Luckily, I don't have much to hide. Also, I know plenty of docs on anti-depressants, and they are fully licensed no problem.

I assume it varies somewhat by state (each state has its own licensing board and application process), but I just applied for my license for residency and I think the question about disclosing medical/psychiatric conditions is pretty standard.

The key is that they ask about conditions that affect your ability to practice- I don't think depression in the past or that is well-controlled on medication would usually fall into this realm, although it is something of a judgement call. I think any psychiatric condition that has required hospitalization or that seriously interferes with one's perception of reality is something you would be legally required to disclose, and it would be difficult to argue otherwise. Failing to do so and being discovered later on would have serious ramifications including revoking your license and possibly facing fines or other punishment within the legal system (it is a legal document on which you attest that all info is complete and accurate, so applying for a license without disclosing this type of info is considered fraud). They do conduct background and fingerprint checks, and many residencies require a pre-employment physical, but I have not heard of routine examination of medical records or insurance forms. I did have to sign a release to the board allowing them access to any info they deemed necessary, so they could request that sort of thing if desired. Another way this could come out is if you were sued at some point in your career- a not uncommon event in this field- and your medical records were subpoenaed as part of the lawsuit (if anyone suspected your psychiatric condition and that it may have caused you to fail to provide the standard of care).

Bottom line is that we have a legal and ethical duty to disclose and address anything that could interfere with our ability to carry out our responsibilities as physicians, and failing to do so could have serious ramifications for your career and your patients. I have not personally met many schizophrenics who remain stable enough over the long-term, even with meds, that I would feel comfortable entrusting them with patient's lives. Then again I'm not going into psych and I don't know that it is not possible, but it seems like a serious enough concern that I doubt the OP will be able to become licensed even if he/she gets into med school somehow. Depression is a common problem, often a transient one, much easier to stabilize with treatment or even resolve entirely, and one that rarely causes a break from reality serious enough to affect one's ability to practice. I would not worry about disclosing something like this unless you are hospitalized and/or suicidal.

 

[vickpick]

hmmmm.. interesting situation. From what I know about schizophrenia, I don't think it'll be a problem if you medication works properly. According to your post, it doesnt help you completely... you still hear voices and have relapses. Soon enough, I think the medication's effect will decrease, then what? Higher dosage maybe...

but I don't think the high-stress life-style is worth it for you. You seem to be an intelligent person. You will easily be able to succeed in some other low-stress career...

Good Luck

 

[not so calm now]

hmmmm.. interesting situation. From what I know about schizophrenia, I don't think it'll be a problem if you medication works properly. According to your post, it doesnt help you completely... you still hear voices and have relapses. Soon enough, I think the medication's effect will decrease, then what? Higher dosage maybe...

but I don't think the high-stress life-style is worth it for you. You seem to be an intelligent person. You will easily be able to succeed in some other low-stress career...

Good Luck

This person has no clue what he/she is talking about. This is exactly why the OP should ignore advice given in this forum.

 

[richse]

I assume it varies somewhat by state (each state has its own licensing board and application process), but I just applied for my license for residency and I think the question about disclosing medical/psychiatric conditions is pretty standard.

The key is that they ask about conditions that affect your ability to practice- I don't think depression in the past or that is well-controlled on medication would usually fall into this realm, although it is something of a judgement call. I think any psychiatric condition that has required hospitalization or that seriously interferes with one's perception of reality is something you would be legally required to disclose, and it would be difficult to argue otherwise. Failing to do so and being discovered later on would have serious ramifications including revoking your license and possibly facing fines or other punishment within the legal system (it is a legal document on which you attest that all info is complete and accurate, so applying for a license without disclosing this type of info is considered fraud). They do conduct background and fingerprint checks, and many residencies require a pre-employment physical, but I have not heard of routine examination of medical records or insurance forms. I did have to sign a release to the board allowing them access to any info they deemed necessary, so they could request that sort of thing if desired. Another way this could come out is if you were sued at some point in your career- a not uncommon event in this field- and your medical records were subpoenaed as part of the lawsuit (if anyone suspected your psychiatric condition and that it may have caused you to fail to provide the standard of care).

Bottom line is that we have a legal and ethical duty to disclose and address anything that could interfere with our ability to carry out our responsibilities as physicians, and failing to do so could have serious ramifications for your career and your patients. I have not personally met many schizophrenics who remain stable enough over the long-term, even with meds, that I would feel comfortable entrusting them with patient's lives. Then again I'm not going into psych and I don't know that it is not possible, but it seems like a serious enough concern that I doubt the OP will be able to become licensed even if he/she gets into med school somehow. Depression is a common problem, often a transient one, much easier to stabilize with treatment or even resolve entirely, and one that rarely causes a break from reality serious enough to affect one's ability to practice. I would not worry about disclosing something like this unless you are hospitalized and/or suicidal.

My PI, who is an expert on Schizophrenia, likes to say that you have three general outcomes with treatment for schizophrenia. 10% of patients do really well on medication and function pretty much normally in society. The middle 80% can achieve some level of functioning but will have trouble holding down most jobs, having friends, keeping their lives in order. The last 10% don't respond to any of the meds outcomes are very poor.

Hopefully the OP will be in the first 10% and if the 3.98 gpa is any indication it's possible.

 

[tiedyeddog]

This person has no clue what he/she is talking about. This is exactly why the OP should ignore advice given in this forum.

The intranetz is a tricky thing....

 

[not so calm now]

The intranetz is a tricky thing....

Internet. Serious business.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Internet. Serious business.

Wtf, I am failing at this....

 

[apumic]

Originally Posted by vickpick
hmmmm.. interesting situation. From what I know about schizophrenia, I don't think it'll be a problem if you medication works properly. According to your post, it doesnt help you completely... you still hear voices and have relapses. Soon enough, I think the medication's effect will decrease, then what? Higher dosage maybe...

but I don't think the high-stress life-style is worth it for you. You seem to be an intelligent person. You will easily be able to succeed in some other low-stress career...

Good Luck

This person has no clue what he/she is talking about. This is exactly why the OP should ignore advice given in this forum.

Actually, that was a pretty well-written post. Not quite sure what your issue is. Schizophrenia is a serious illness and, as I understand, medication does not fully restore functioning.
However...the OP should really go and speak with a psychiatrist about this or, at minimum, post on the psychiatry specialty and clinical psychology boards, as those will be the boards where qualified professionals dealing with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses tend to roam. Considering the typical pre-med's education, most here probably could not even differentiate between the positive and negative symptoms of the illness (or how those symptoms generally respond to medication or therapy), much less assess how those symptoms might effect the OP's performance as a medical professional or even in medical school, for that matter.

 

[Rendar5]

well-written is not the same as talking from a solid foundation of knowledge. The comments about drugs seems to fly against how the drugs actually function. Most drugs do not cause tolerance like he's suggesting, not to mention he doesn't seem to be aware of the pharmacology and/or therapy around schizophrenia. Even if his global points are well-written and end up with teh same advice, with such a serious situation, I also think taking advice from ppl without semi-solid foundations and have dealt with schizophrenics in a clinical setting is an iffy prospect at best. (just explainign the issue with that post. your post on the other hand was quite proper)

 

[not so calm now]

Actually, that was a pretty well-written post. Not quite sure what your issue is.

Yeah, regardless of how well written the post is, it's pretty apparent that vickpick has only the vaguest ideas of what it means to have the most serious mental illness possible. What I'm trying to argue is that, unless you have schizophrenia and simultaneously have a successful medical career or you are a professional treating schizophrenia, you should not be giving this person advice.

Just because you took a psych class and watched Gerald doesn't mean you have any clue how schizophrenia's going to affect this person in the future.

PS. There's also a confidential consult board, but I'd even take that with a grain of salt.

 

[apumic]

I agree that parts of the post were not correct; still, the ending statement was appropriate (i.e., suggesting the OP consider a lower-stress career path w/ less irreversibly critical responsibility). I do not believe those meds generally build tolerance; however, that is not to say that the medications available are adequate to fully restore functioning over time. From the neuro and psychopharm courses I took as a pre-med/pre-psych student, that did not appear to be the case, although I would certainly not pretend to be qualified in this matter. I deal with schizophrenia and psychotic symptoms in my px regularly but about the most I do with meds is reading physicians' orders and administering meds accordingly (and maybe filling out the occasional form to have meds checked on if a px does not appear to be responding to the medication as expected or appears to have some sort of reaction to the medication).

 

[not so calm now]

I agree that parts of the post were not correct; still, the ending statement was appropriate (i.e., suggesting the OP consider a lower-stress career path w/ less irreversibly critical responsibility). I do not believe those meds generally build tolerance; however, that is not to say that the medications available are adequate to fully restore functioning over time. From the neuro and psychopharm courses I took as a pre-med/pre-psych student, that did not appear to be the case, although I would certainly not pretend to be qualified in this matter. I deal with schizophrenia and psychotic symptoms in my px regularly but about the most I do with meds is reading physicians' orders and administering meds accordingly (and maybe filling out the occasional form to have meds checked on if a px does not appear to be responding to the medication as expected or appears to have some sort of reaction to the medication).

Honestly, who are you to tell this person s/he can't be a doctor? Again, advice from people who aren't in the category I mentioned above, whether discouraging or encouraging, should be ignored.