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medguy24

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    Based on your two active threads, going to medical school right now would be a mistake. You don't know what you are getting into. Risk of burnout/depression/failure is relatively high. Go do undergrad. You are clearly someone that needs the extra time to figure this stuff out. So do it.
    You have a point. But if I go through undergrad first I'll lose two extra years and I'll have a ton of debt from undergrad...
     

    Lucca

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      You have a point. But if I go through undergrad first I'll lose two extra years and I'll have a ton of debt from undergrad...

      You are not "losing" anything. School is not a sunk cost it's an investment. How do you know how much debt you will have? You dont't even know where you are going to undergrad yet do you? Your family makes enough to contribute to your education. Trust us when we tell you you are most likely not mature enough to make the decisiont o go into medicine.
       
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      medguy24

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        You are not "losing" anything. School is not a sunk cost it's an investment. How do you know how much debt you will have? You dont't even know where you are going to undergrad yet do you? Your family makes enough to contribute to your education. Trust us when we tell you you are most likely not mature enough to make the decisiont o go into medicine.
        A- I do know where my other choice for undergrad is. It's an Ivy League school that I have connections in.
        B- my parents don't make enough to contribute towards my education. They can only pay 30 out of the 60k tuition a year for an ivy. That means I'll have 120k debt before I even start med school. Then I'll go to that same ivy college med school (connections) and my parents can't contribute anything so I'll be another 240k in debt for a total of 360k in debt and say I go into cardiology that would be 4 years undergrads 1 year gap 4 year med school 3 year residency 3 year fellowship total 15 years of schooling with 360k debt (not including all the interest it will acquire) that means I'll be 33 years old when I start working and I'll be in 360k debt...
        Versus this bs do program is only 6 years plus 3 year residency so total 9 years and I'll graduate debt free. I'll be 27 years old when I start and I'll have no debt.,,
        That looks much much better that the first path.. However, I don't want to end up 27 years old and not being to able to find a job in NYC since I didn't go to a top school and therefore having to move elsewhere and then even after moving, only getting paid 160k a year...
        This is my dilemma...,,
        will I be able to get a 200k job in NYC from the bs do program? If yes then that option is perfect. If not, then I don't really have any other choice but to go the other path... I'll start working 6 years later and I'll have 360k a year in debt but I'll have a job in NYC with a 300k plus salary so I'll be able to pay back my debt and have enough money to pay my living expenses.
        But I would rather not go through the second path if it's not necessary.
        This is why I'm asking my question. And this is why I'm asking whether Ill be able to find a job in NYC that will pay me 200k a year.
        Does my question make more sense now?
         

        Lucca

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          A- I do know where my other choice for undergrad is. It's an Ivy League school that I have connections in.
          B- my parents don't make enough to contribute towards my education. They can only pay 30 out of the 60k tuition a year for an ivy. That means I'll have 120k debt before I even start med school. Then I'll go to that same ivy college med school (connections) and my parents can't contribute anything so I'll be another 240k in debt for a total of 360k in debt and say I go into cardiology that would be 4 years undergrads 1 year gap 4 year med school 3 year residency 3 year fellowship total 15 years of schooling with 360k debt (not including all the interest it will acquire) that means I'll be 33 years old when I start working and I'll be in 360k debt...
          Versus this bs do program is only 6 years plus 3 year residency so total 9 years and I'll graduate debt free. I'll be 27 years old when I start and I'll have no debt.,,
          That looks much much better that the first path.. However, I don't want to end up 27 years old and not being to able to find a job in NYC since I didn't go to a top school and therefore having to move elsewhere and then even after moving, only getting paid 160k a year...
          This is my dilemma...,,
          will I be able to get a 200k job in NYC from the bs do program? If yes then that option is perfect. If not, then I don't really have any other choice but to go the other path... I'll start working 6 years later and I'll have 360k a year in debt but I'll have a job in NYC with a 300k plus salary so I'll be able to pay back my debt and have enough money to pay my living expenses.
          But I would rather not go through the second path if it's not necessary.
          This is why I'm asking my question. And this is why I'm asking whether Ill be able to find a job in NYC that will pay me 200k a year.
          Does my question make more sense now?

          If you go to the ivy you can easily find a job for 200k in the NYC provided you work and network hard enough. Is it HYP? Anything besides Cornell and you have a good shot of being able to break into finance and you can work when you are 22 making 120k in the city.

          Btw you are missing the point that we are telling you that you do not know what you are getting into, going into medicine is not a purely financial decision. Your unwillingness to go into any debt whatsoever without much understanding of the profession you are ging into concerns me.
           
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          medguy24

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            Not locked into a specality out of high school. Still no MCAT (even though its absurb to be scared of the test)
            There are many bs do/md program that provide no mcat. The benefit in this program is:
            1- only six years (3 year med school)
            2- no debt

            The other bs do program is going to be 8 years (or maybe 7) as opposed to 6
            And I'll graduate with debt. As opposed to no debt.

            Not having to take the mcat is not my priority- it's a bonus
            My main goal is to save time (finish faster) and money (less debt)
            Thanks though. I appreciate it,
             

            DoctorSynthesis

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              There are many bs do/md program that provide no mcat. The benefit in this program is:
              1- only six years (3 year med school)
              2- no debt

              The other bs do program is going to be 8 years (or maybe 7) as opposed to 6
              And I'll graduate with debt. As opposed to no debt.

              Not having to take the mcat is not my priority- it's a bonus
              My main goal is to save time (finish faster) and money (less debt)
              Thanks though. I appreciate it,

              You don't want to go to a six year program it's a bad idea. There are other ways to reduce cost that doesn't limit specality and one extra year to not be locked into a specality is a no brainer.
               

              medguy24

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                If you go to the ivy you can easily find a job for 200k in the NYC provided you work and network hard enough. Is it HYP? Anything besides Cornell and you have a good shot of being able to break into finance and you can work when you are 22 making 120k in the city.

                Btw you are missing the point that we are telling you that you do not know what you are getting into, going into medicine is not a purely financial decision. Your unwillingness to go into any debt whatsoever without much understanding of the profession you are ging into concerns me.
                It's Columbia. And I've thought about going into finance. But there a few problems.

                1- there's no job stability. People get fired left and right. I can't afford to lose my job when I have a huge mortgage and expenses.
                2- they work 80 plus hours. while I understand I won't be working 9-5 as a doctor either, it won't be anything near 100 hours.
                3- job satisfaction. While making money and having good hours is great, I want to do something good that would make me happy, and I don't see that in finance.

                Finance just offers a lot of money. But nothing else is included.
                With medicine you'll get the money and you'll have the added benefits of job stability, good hours, and job satisfaction.
                Thanks though.
                 

                DoctorSynthesis

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                  It's Columbia. And I've thought about going into finance. But there a few problems.

                  1- there's no job stability. People get fired left and right. I can't afford to lose my job when I have a huge mortgage and expenses.
                  2- they work 80 plus hours. while I understand I won't be working 9-5 as a doctor either, it won't be anything near 100 hours.
                  3- job satisfaction. While making money and having good hours is great, I want to do something good that would make me happy, and I don't see that in finance.

                  Finance just offers a lot of money. But nothing else is included.
                  With medicine you'll get the money and you'll have the added benefits of job stability, good hours, and job satisfaction.
                  Thanks though.
                  Good hours? Hahahahahahahaha. You're dillusional. Many doctors aren't satistified (a majority even) the hours are terrible, and its grueling. The combined programs aren't a good fit for you.
                   

                  medguy24

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                    You don't want to go to a six year program it's a bad idea. There are other ways to reduce cost that doesn't limit specality and one extra year to not be locked into a specality is a no brainer.
                    I don't really have a problem being locked into primary care because I've done shadowing and I know I like primary care. And I've shadowed other fields as well and I know that I liked primary care. So I'm not worried about changing my mind and wanting to go into another field.
                    I have a problem with the fact of whether the school I'll be going to is good enough to land me that 200k internal medicine job in NYC.
                     

                    Lucca

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                      It's Columbia. And I've thought about going into finance. But there a few problems.

                      1- there's no job stability. People get fired left and right. I can't afford to lose my job when I have a huge mortgage and expenses.
                      2- they work 80 plus hours. while I understand I won't be working 9-5 as a doctor either, it won't be anything near 100 hours.
                      3- job satisfaction. While making money and having good hours is great, I want to do something good that would make me happy, and I don't see that in finance.

                      Finance just offers a lot of money. But nothing else is included.
                      With medicine you'll get the money and you'll have the added benefits of job stability, good hours, and job satisfaction.
                      Thanks though.

                      You realize you could be very miserable in primary care and finance is hands down a better lifestyle choice? Primary care has the lowest job satisfaction of any medical specialty and probably deals with the most BS/dollar earned in the profession. You will work 80+ hour weeks in residency, especially in IM. Also, if you want to be pulling 200k in Super-Competitive NYC while not working over 70 hours for the first couple of years as an attending while you build your practice from the wealthy patients willing to pay away from the MDs with Ivy league degrees hanging on their walls to advertise to their ivy-pedigreed patients then you might be in for a rude awakening. If you work for a hospital for 200k you most likely be overworked and underpaid in primary care. If you work private practice then you are going to have to build that practice from the ground up and foot the costs of maintaining it in NYC yourself. It will be a huge capital investment.

                      Debt is a reality in this country, think about the true cost of being locked into a specialty you might hate 6 years down the road. You decide to leave medicine and then you don't even have a bachelor's degree or a medical degree. If you leave during residency training, you have a DO and are competing for the non-medicine medical degree jobs with MDs in a marketplace that cares a whole lot more about resume and pedigree than hospitals do. At least if you were fired from Wall st. you could have some exit opportunities lined up.

                      You have not thought about this enough.

                      Go to Columbia it's an excellent school that can provide an excellent education if you actually invest yourself in it and not just see it as throwing money out the window for nothin.
                       
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                      candbgirl

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                        I made a list of why I like this program.
                        Let me know what you guys think:

                        Leocom pros:
                        -Graduate after 6 years with absolutely no debt (other college and medical school I'll have over 360,000 in loans)
                        -I'll be a doctor in only 9 years (other college would be 16)
                        - I don't need to take the mcat or do research or do volunteer work or do shadowing or go through applications and interviews and I just need a 3.2 science gpa (Other college I need to take the mcat and get a 30+ I need to do research and volunteer work and shadowing and apply and do interviews and get a 3.5+ science gpa)
                        - since Im just doing a internal medicine residency I don't have to worry about having to ace all my classes and my boards in medical school. (Other college I want to get into a cardiology fellowship so I need to get into a top internal medicine residency so I need to do well in medical school and the boards)
                        - since I'm not doing a fellowship I don't have to worry about acing my internal medicine residency and boards and having to apply to places ( other college I want to do cardiology so i need to do well in residency and boards so I can get a cardiology fellowship)


                        So you are okay with planning to be a mediocre Doctor? That's what get from this post- don't have to study hard. Don't have to do well on boards, don't have to well in residency etc. no shadowing, no research. I've never really met a high school senior that is considering medicine for ALL the wrong reasons. Sort of sad really.
                         
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                        medguy24

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                          You realize you could be very miserable in primary care and finance is hands down a better lifestyle choice? Primary care has the lowest job satisfaction of any medical specialty and probably deals with the most BS/dollar earned in the profession. You will work 80+ hour weeks in residency, especially in IM. Also, if you want to be pulling 200k in Super-Competitive NYC while not working over 70 hours for the first couple of years as an attending while you build your practice from the wealthy patients willing to pay away from the MDs with Ivy league degrees hanging on their walls to advertise to their ivy-pedigreed patients then you might be in for a rude awakening. If you work for a hospital for 200k you most likely be overworked and underpaid in primary care. If you work private practice then you are going to have to build that practice from the ground up and foot the costs of maintaining it in NYC yourself. It will be a huge capital investment.

                          Debt is a reality in this country, think about the true cost of being locked into a specialty you might hate 6 years down the road. You decide to leave medicine and then you don't even have a bachelor's degree or a medical degree. If you leave during residency training, you have a DO and are competing for the non-medicine medical degree jobs with MDs in a marketplace that cares a whole lot more about resume and pedigree than hospitals do. At least if you were fired from Wall st. you could have some exit opportunities lined up.

                          You have not thought about this enough.

                          Go to Columbia it's an excellent school that can provide an excellent education if you actually invest yourself in it and not just see it as throwing money out the window for nothin.
                          Everything your saying is true...
                          I don't really have anything to respond to this..,
                          I don't know I guess your right.
                          Maybe this is a bad option and I should just go to columbia and start off as premed and as time goes on think about it sone more and see if it's really what I want to do...
                           

                          medguy24

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                            So you are okay with planning to be a mediocre Doctor? That's what get from this post- don't have to study hard. Don't have to do well on boards, don't have to well in residency etc. no shadowing, no research. I've never really met a high school senior that is considering medicine for ALL the wrong reasons. Sort of sad really.
                            Well no. What I was saying is this:
                            Think about it like this.
                            Someone who gets a B in biology dosent know biology? Of course he does. But a B won't be good enough for medical school. So he has to get an A. Getting an A is a lot harder than getting a B. And if a B is enough why go through all the extra stress.
                             

                            DoctorSynthesis

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                              I don't really have a problem being locked into primary care because I've done shadowing and I know I like primary care. And I've shadowed other fields as well and I know that I liked primary care. So I'm not worried about changing my mind and wanting to go into another field.
                              I have a problem with the fact of whether the school I'll be going to is good enough to land me that 200k internal medicine job in NYC.

                              Youre too concerned with money/hours and you're not mature enough to do BS DO. I'm in a BS DO program and I see people dropping out and struggling who went in with bad reasons.

                              You may not make 200k. If you're not okay with that then don't do this program.
                               

                              GypsyHummus

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                                Lol, I love how everyone is always "You like money? How DARE you go into medicine for less than altruistic and saintly reasons"

                                Medicine pays well. It is one of the only professions that still guarantees a 6 figure salary. How many people do you think would apply to medical school if doctor made 55K a year? These pre meds speak from a place of ignorance. They love to take the moral high ground when they can bash someone for talking about actually making money. Pre meds need to get off their high horse and get grounded in reality.

                                Ill spit some truths: You can make 200K as a primary care doc right now, though that might change with the encroachment of Nurse Practitioners. Ten years ago, I would have said absolutely do the LECOM program :It guarantees you a spot in medical school. Now, if it were me I would still take it, because it is just gonna get harder to get into medical school as the years and economy go by.
                                 

                                raiderette

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                                  This 6-year program doesn't guarantee that you will get the NHSC scholarship, does it? I have looked into the scholarship myself but have never seen anything about guaranteeing X number of spots for people. You could just as easily go to Columbia for undergrad and then apply to several medical schools and apply for the NHSC scholarship. Also, it doesn't need to be Columbia or nothing. If you are good enough to get into an accelerated med program, you can qualify somewhere for merit aid (full-tuition to full-ride) and not worry about your undergrad debt.
                                   

                                  candbgirl

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                                    Well no. What I was saying is this:
                                    Think about it like this.
                                    Someone who gets a B in biology dosent know biology? Of course he does. But a B won't be good enough for medical school. So he has to get an A. Getting an A is a lot harder than getting a B. And if a B is enough why go through all the extra stress.


                                    Oh okay. I understand now-you are just lazy and are trying to find the quickest and easiest way to make 200k a year so you can continue the lifestyle you have grown accustomed to living. I still don't want you for my doctor. :eek:
                                     
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                                    aegistitan

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                                      Short answer to your question:

                                      Yes you can make 200k as a primary care doctor. You could just be a salaried hospitalist in NYC and make that much. And you wouldn't need to work the "80+ hours" those in finance work. At the same time you wouldn't need to deal with the stress of running your own private practice if your goal is 200k.
                                       
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                                      moisne

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                                        Well I know I want to go into healthcare (I want to see patients) and I want to make Atleast 200k so the only choices I have are a physician...
                                        I don't want to have to go to school for 14 years and take 300,000+ debt to specialize when I can go to school for just 9 years and have NO debt and make the same money...
                                        So let me get this straight - you care about money ---

                                        Let's say you are super skilled, go plastic and work on all the celebrity faces - you will take in millions.

                                        Regardless - you will still need to do a residency that has a salary less than 60k...
                                         

                                        AspiringERMD

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                                          Is there a particular reason you're setting 200K as a lower bound? Any MD working any field should make more than enough to live comfortably, especially with PAYE loan repayment plans. Restricting yourself to a subset of disciplines based exclusively on money makes me think that you do not truly feel that medicine is your calling, because if you did, any field should be on the table if you consider money alone.

                                          Just for contrast- I've been in love with EM since I was 6, though (long story) went into software after college. Hated it. Went back to school. Wasn't until like 1.5 years after I started my post-bacc that I thought "you know, I wonder how much money doctors make" and looked it up. (EM has a fairly average salary out of all the specialties, but I just about fell out of my chair when I saw I'd be making 4x my software developer salary... the point is, that curiosity came way later for me. It just didn't matter.)
                                           
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                                          Ace Khalifa

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                                            OP is definitely way too immature to consider going into medicine at this point. I agree that he should have put more thought into this. I agree that his posts make him sound really lazy. I agree that his ridiculously stubborn attitude and demands show a clear lack of maturity and willingness to change that is required to survive in the medical field. Only a lazy-ass coward would turn down the chance to attend a well-respected Ivy Leage undergraduate institution. OP would be missing out on developing sharper academic skills and soft skills that matter in the field of medicine - maturity, professionalism, compassion, empathy, motivation, integrity, resilience, and capacity for improvement.

                                            I'm sorry y'all, but OP's posts have just gotten to the point of complete absurdity.
                                             
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