Prior Service Navy HPSP and Other Issues

[It's lupus!]

So I figured it would be best to jump on here and gets some thoughts from the salty docs on the forums regarding my current dilemma.

Brief background: Male. 28 y/o. Prior service navy corpsman (5 years HM3). Finishing bachelors. Accepted to DO school. Wife. Dog. A little out of shape but nothing I can't fix in a month. Disability (this is the dilemma part).

Thoughts/Concerns: When I left the military it was always with the intention of going to medical school. College was near impossible when you throw in deployments and field ops every other week and weekend. When I separated I was told to pursue any medical claims. It made sense, at least in the beginning with the whole CYA mindset. I actually resented the resulting disability pay (60%) and felt guilty considering I felt fine and fully functional, but a fellow vet at my school counseled me about it and basically said you can't really give back the check might as well take it. Now I have come to rely on that disability pay to get me by and it will definitely help in medical school. I want to serve again though but have fears that my disability could be slashed and still be rejected from returning to service. I don't care about the disability rating if I can reenter but, as I am sure many people know, every penny counts right now. I was hoping someone might provide insights if they have any involvement in such processes or have experience with similar issues.

My only last concern is that I know nothing about the officer life, military residency, and the general consensus of fulfillment on the physician side of the house. Feel free to share your specialty, your residency experience (both from quality training/and military standpoint), and if you felt it was worth it.

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[d2305]

If your disability is for a psychiatric diagnosis, you will have some explaining to do.

 

[It's lupus!]

If your disability is for a psychiatric diagnosis, you will have some explaining to do.

Indeed, a portion of it is, and I shouldn't have any issues explaining it. Like I said, I didn't feel like I should have received anything. I took the advise of separation counselors and fellow vets through the process and have a love/hate relationship with the outcome. The diagnosis was given well before I did a 9 month deployment with the a MEU and I had no issues outside of an unrelated musculoskeletal injury while out on an op. The worst thing I see happening is that I can justify my fitness for duty only to be rejected and be left without the HPSP and disability pay that has kept me afloat through out my undergrad and hopefully medical school. I'm trying to proceed with* absolute caution so that I don't go in blind with expectations that don't match reality. I saw to many guys in that situation that ended up feeling like prisoners and hating their lives. I don't want to be one of them. This is just the first step for me in identifying the viability of this route for me.

Edit: without -> with

 

[pgg]

Just on the face of it, the notion of a person with 60% disability trying to join the military seems ridiculous to me.

 

[It's lupus!]

Just on the face of it, the notion of a person with 60% disability trying to join the military seems ridiculous to me.

Definitely, I found it absurd that I received it in the first place. What I was explained later by someone who deals with the assessment and granting of disability that because I came from the infantry they generally have a hard time declining claims. I would also note that my disabilities are not listed as permanent either, but rather expected to resolve over time. In fact I was told at some point I will be called for re-evaluation (whenever that might be).

 

[narcusprince]

You have a lot to lose. The way I see it with the new instructions on deploy or discharge you will have a tough time coming back on AD. If you go the route of I took the money for something I likely did not have your integrity would be questioned. Keep your disabilty go to med school finish residency and come back as a contractor. The military climate for anyone with disabilities has gotten more markedly harsh.

 

[It's lupus!]

You have a lot to lose. The way I see it with the new instructions on deploy or discharge you will have a tough time coming back on AD. If you go the route of I took the money for something I likely did not have your integrity would be questioned. Keep your disabilty go to med school finish residency and come back as a contractor. The military climate for anyone with disabilities has gotten more markedly harsh.

Thats the frustrating part! I was never dishonest. They reviewed my record. They asked me questions. I answered honestly. In the exam room I literally told them I was fine. I showed up because as a part of the separation contract and IRR stuff I was told I was required to go. So I went. Afterward I started getting checks in the mail. I seriously thought about declining them and was advised not to by literally everyone. I have legitimate dXs but nothing I thought required money. I wasn't trying to con anyone at all. I didn't even want to go to the appointments because they were often an hour away in the middle of the week while I had work. Putting all that aside...

I don't care about deployments. I enjoyed both of mine. Your last statement is actually shocking to me. I thought the military was moving toward a more appreciative stance regarding disability? As far as coming back as a contractor, how often are they utilized in different specialties (I believe your an anesthesia right?) and I had considered working with the VA as a fulfilling route.

 

[pgg]

I think narcusprince is referring to the newish policy of fast tracking evaluation and separation of non-deployable active duty personnel.

Pentagon Releases New Policy on Nondeployable Members > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Article

I'm not questioning your integrity at all. I'm just saying that in an era where the armed forces are deliberately moving away from letting non-deployable people stay on active duty, a person with a documented 60% disability isn't a good bet for re-accession. But who knows ... the military invented the right-hand-left-hand counteraction phenomenon, and a recruiter's credit for a join isn't negated by an adsep two years later ... they'd probably bend over backwards to get you in again.


Do you have any GI Bill benefits remaining? If so, using that for medical school is surely the best option.

 

[It's lupus!]

I think narcusprince is referring to the newish policy of fast tracking evaluation and separation of non-deployable active duty personnel.

Pentagon Releases New Policy on Nondeployable Members > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Article

I'm not questioning your integrity at all. I'm just saying that in an era where the armed forces are deliberately moving away from letting non-deployable people stay on active duty, a person with a documented 60% disability isn't a good bet for re-accession. But who knows ... the military invented the right-hand-left-hand counteraction phenomenon, and a recruiter's credit for a join isn't negated by an adsep two years later ... they'd probably bend over backwards to get you in again.


Do you have any GI Bill benefits remaining? If so, using that for medical school is surely the best option.

No GI Bill left. I depleted that with undergrad. I admittedly miss a few things about the military. The scholarship would definitely help while in school but I'm not really interested in returning because of the money, it is just a pretty nice perk. Just being in residency as a civilian means a bigger salary than my parents got after 10 years of working so any salary after med school is a win for me. This background does however make me financially cautious in my decisions. The way it sounds right now, I'm probably better off waiting on the HPSP and taking out loans and revisiting military options closer to residency. It seems my years out has put me behind on recent happenings within the military. And like I said, other than my musculoskeletal injury,, which makes up very little, its the psych DX that ups my percentage which was made before my last deployment. So I'm not sure how I could be considered unable to deploy now, haha. I appreciate everyone's input. I guess I'll keep kicking the can down the road for now.

 

[Gastrapathy]

It’s not other people’s fault that you chose to apply for and received disability for life. Blaming “other vets” for your choice is an excuse. You served. You’re disabled. I’m sure you deserve 60%. But, since you do, you really can’t also expect to serve again. It’s a totally fair choice for someone who will receive tax free money for 50+ years.

 

[It's lupus!]

It’s not other people’s fault that you chose to apply for and received disability for life. Blaming “other vets” for your choice is an excuse. You served. You’re disabled. I’m sure you deserve 60%. But, since you do, you really can’t also expect to serve again. It’s a totally fair choice for someone who will receive tax free money for 50+ years.

Hold on. I did not blame anyone else and had no intentions of implying as such. I shared that information for the purposes of unpacking how I came to MY decision, which came with a healthy bit of guidance by others and a healthy lacking of homework on my part. I was conflicted on each step of that process and deferred to the judgement given by people that had been through the process before. That being something that, I would hope, if you've been through would have some understanding. I AGREE this is on me. I also noted my disability is NOT permanent (indicating I am not getting this for the entirety of my life) as was mentioned in a previous response. I don't "expect" to serve nor do I believe anything is owed to me. My situation is in fact precarious and may preclude me from service and/or change my life as it stands. I am exploring my options and getting an idea of what might be my best course of action, including the possibility that service is not ideal. I felt though that exploring the possibility of serving was worth a shot. But your opinion is noted.

 

[Gastrapathy]

The vast majority of temporary disabilities end up with lifelong benefits. If your disability application was accurate, then so be it.

Twice in as many posts, you pointed to the influence of others in your decision to seek disability. The idea that “you have no choice” is false. VA disability determination requires you to choose to submit a claim and you did so. There is no requirement to claim from the VA to separate nor does the VA have anything to do with the reserves.

Look, I also submitted a claim. You clearly feel ambivalent about whether you deserve the money. You had a right to submit. You told the truth. You were found 60% disabled (which is a lot). That shouldn’t be compatible with future service.

 

[It's lupus!]

The vast majority of temporary disabilities end up with lifelong benefits. If your disability application was accurate, then so be it.

Twice in as many posts, you pointed to the influence of others in your decision to seek disability. The idea that “you have no choice” is false. VA disability determination requires you to choose to submit a claim and you did so. There is no requirement to claim from the VA to separate nor does the VA have anything to do with the reserves.

Look, I also submitted a claim. You clearly feel ambivalent about whether you deserve the money. You had a right to submit. You told the truth. You were found 60% disabled (which is a lot). That shouldn’t be compatible with future service.

Yeah. I was unaware of temporary becoming lifelong. And while it's entirely possible that the evaluation was not mandatory I was led to believe as such (again I take responsibility for my lack of own homework). Yes other people's thoughts influenced my decision, but like we both agree on it was my decision to list them in the beginning of the separation process. I see your point though that on face value there shouldn't be any reasonable way to re-enter. That is essentially the dilemma I'm in, in so far as I feel that I feel 100% functional and capable despite this rating. I agree that there is much contradiction between my status and my mindset, and maybe I need to realign my ideas with reality.

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[Gastrapathy]

Check out Voc Rehab.

 

[It's lupus!]

Check out Voc Rehab.

Will do. I thought about it and then thought it wasn't appropriate for me.

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[militaryPHYS]

Sounds like you are on TDRL, correct? Therefore, at a minimum you are seeing someone every 18 months for re-evaluation to remain on TDRL. This will continue for 5 years until you are found fit to return to active duty or remain disabled and placed in permanent status (PDRL). https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/disability/disability.html

At any time you can be re-evaluated and taken off of TDRL and returned to active duty if you feel like you have recovered fully. Nobody ever does this (at least in my experience performing TDRL re-evaluations). BUT, if you have a strong personal desire to return to active duty then you can do this. You risk losing your benefits for the rest of your life and you risk not being accepted to a military medical program and thus defeating the purpose.

You served your time and suffered because of it. You received a 60% rating and only you know whether or not this is a fair price for what you went through. Nobody can tell you what to do but most people continue to justify their TDRL rating and eventually get transitioned to PDRL to keep their benefits and move on with their lives. Whether or not that is right or wrong only the service member knows. If you rate the disability then own it and move on with your life outside of the military. If you don't and feel recovered and really want to come back to the service then do it. Either way, own your decision and don't live with regret.

 

[It's lupus!]

Sounds like you are on TDRL, correct? Therefore, at a minimum you are seeing someone every 18 months for re-evaluation to remain on TDRL. This will continue for 5 years until you are found fit to return to active duty or remain disabled and placed in permanent status (PDRL). https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/disability/disability.html

At any time you can be re-evaluated and taken off of TDRL and returned to active duty if you feel like you have recovered fully. Nobody ever does this (at least in my experience performing TDRL re-evaluations). BUT, if you have a strong personal desire to return to active duty then you can do this. You risk losing your benefits for the rest of your life and you risk not being accepted to a military medical program and thus defeating the purpose.

You served your time and suffered because of it. You received a 60% rating and only you know whether or not this is a fair price for what you went through. Nobody can tell you what to do but most people continue to justify their TDRL rating and eventually get transitioned to PDRL to keep their benefits and move on with their lives. Whether or not that is right or wrong only the service member knows. If you rate the disability then own it and move on with your life outside of the military. If you don't and feel recovered and really want to come back to the service then do it. Either way, own your decision and don't live with regret.

Thanks. I appreciate the thoughtful response.

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[d2305]

When one applies for a license, there are questions about one's psychiatric history. I avoided the problem by not claiming any problems when I separated.

 

[It's lupus!]

When one applies for a license, there are questions about one's psychiatric history. I avoided the problem by not claiming any problems when I separated.

Thats a fair point. In my case I have severe doubts that my ability to be licensed will be hindered.

 

[teacherman84]

When one applies for a license, there are questions about one's psychiatric history. I avoided the problem by not claiming any problems when I separated.

So are you implying you knew you had mental health concerns, but didn't have them addressed in order to make getting a medical license easier?

 

[d2305]

Don't we all have a little ptsd if we've been in for life?

 

[SARmedic8401]

Any luck finding answers?

I have a VA rating also, mostly musculoskeletal issues. Hoping to maybe do HPSP. From what I’ve found, you can search the physical standards for enlistment instruction and it will tell you every condition that is disqualifying.

DODI 6130.03

Essentially, musculoskeletal issues are only disqualifying if you’re unable to complete your tasks or a PRT because of them. Mental health, there’s a lot of nuances but the meat and potatoes are:

1. No hx of suicidal attempts/ideation
2. No hx of inpatient care
3. No outpatient care lasting longer than 12 months in duration
4. Asymptomatic for last 36 months
5. No psych meds in last 36 months
6. No hx of PTSD

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[armytrainingsir]

By my guess, 60% of E4 over 4 is around 1500 per month, tax free. Likely for life.

The navy has paid for your medical education. You just havent figured that out yet.

 

[It's lupus!]

By my guess, 60% of E4 over 4 is around 1500 per month, tax free. Likely for life.

The navy has paid for your medical education. You just havent figured that out yet.

This has been a dead thread for a while.... And just for poops and giggles it's not that high, haha. Also, if you're suggesting 1500 per month would pay for my education (at my estimated loan amount) would take 33 years... Yes I know plus salary I would already make, but seriously man. Why even bother saying anything?

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[j4pac]

Don't we all have a little ptsd if we've been in for life?

Pretty sure most physicians have PTSD or at minimum pretty severe anxiety.

 

[j4pac]

I like @Gastrapathy wise counsel. The key here is to be honesty. The trouble you’re going to get into is that you’re going to be tempted to concoct a story for each diagnosis that allows you to hedge your bets. And you’re going to get into trouble. Just be honest and see if the military will still take you. I don’t believe you can take disability while on active duty, but maybe I’m wrong. I’d look at the National Guard options if those still exist..Ibrlieve you could be in the reserves while receiving disability, or so I heard. Texas also has a great plan the last time I checked for prior service military...just making sure you aren’t going to school in Texas.

 

[It's lupus!]

I like @Gastrapathy wise counsel. The key here is to be honesty. The trouble you’re going to get into is that you’re going to be tempted to concoct a story for each diagnosis that allows you to hedge your bets. And you’re going to get into trouble. Just be honest and see if the military will still take you. I don’t believe you can take disability while on active duty, but maybe I’m wrong. I’d look at the National Guard options if those still exist..Ibrlieve you could be in the reserves while receiving disability, or so I heard. Texas also has a great plan the last time I checked for prior service military...just making sure you aren’t going to school in Texas.

I actually talked with a few people a while back and found out they would likely accept me. I can't receive benefits while on active duty. I am in Texas as well. I decided to sit out year one. Pulling back the reigns has to do with the SO and seeing if she's really onboard with me going back.

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