Probably a stupid question, but who cares?

[crose1023]

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Yes, I'm only in the pre-med stages and shouldn't worry about residencies, this is just my curiosity getting the best of me. Personally, at this point in my life, I want to do surgery (I am aware my mind can change).

What's the difference between the ACGME and AOA residencies? Why do some DO students test for MD residencies? Are the MD residencies just better or something else?

 

[DrMaximus]

Yes, I'm only in the pre-med stages and shouldn't worry about residencies, this is just my curiosity getting the best of me. Personally, at this point in my life, I want to do surgery (I am aware my mind can change).

What's the difference between the ACGME and AOA residencies? Why do some DO students test for MD residencies? Are the MD residencies just better or something else?

First off, like everyone else is going to tell you, there is a ton of threads like this floating around.

Second off, if this turns into an MD vs DO thread, there will be blood... 😀

Now, there are a lot of reasons DOs go to MD residencies. Some people even apply ACGME because there are no AOA near them. For the most part though, ACGME residencies are in nice, academic, tertiary referral centers and AOAs are in smaller, community setting (keep in mind, there are these in both worlds). In these big medical centers, you will see more and be exposed to some rare things that you may not see at the smaller centers. Also, ACGME usually has more research opportunities and the ability to get better fellowships.

If I forgot anything, feel free to add.

 

[costales]

Availability and location. Quality comes in shades of gray. There are MD residencies that are crappy, and there are DO residencies that are very competitive.

 

[MedPR]

Yes, I'm only in the pre-med stages and shouldn't worry about residencies, this is just my curiosity getting the best of me. Personally, at this point in my life, I want to do surgery (I am aware my mind can change).

What's the difference between the ACGME and AOA residencies? Why do some DO students test for MD residencies? Are the MD residencies just better or something else?

ACGME is 5 letters, AOA is 3. Because MD>DO. Yes.

 

[diagonal]

If you want to do surgery, you'll be forced to do a DO residency. So in your case, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[rzoo14]

If you want to do surgery, you'll be forced to do a DO residency. So in your case, I wouldn't worry about it.

😕

That's not necessarily true. There are a lot of MD programs for Gen Surgery which DO students can apply for and get into. You also have the option to go for a military residency. One example that comes to mind is General Surgery at San Antonio Military Medical Center. Its a good program.

Also, looking at match lists for schools, I see that MSU has a lot of students going into Orthopedic Surgery through AOA.

 

[crose1023]

Perfect, thank you.
🙂

 

[diagonal]

😕

That's not necessarily true. There are a lot of MD programs for Gen Surgery which DO students can apply for and get into. You also have the option to go for a military residency. One example that comes to mind is General Surgery at San Antonio Military Medical Center. Its a good program.

Also, looking at match lists for schools, I see that MSU has a lot of students going into Orthopedic Surgery through AOA.

If you think as a DO you're getting an MD surgery residency, you're delusional. Especially as a pre-med thinking they will be a ****-not-stinking med student. Listen man, I'm a 4th year med student. I've been in the game, and I've seen how it works. If you want an MD surgery residency, you're ****ed if you go DO.

 

[rzoo14]

If you think as a DO you're getting an MD surgery residency, you're delusional. Especially as a pre-med thinking they will be a ****-not-stinking med student. Listen man, I'm a 4th year med student. I've been in the game, and I've seen how it works. If you want an MD surgery residency, you're ****ed if you go DO.

Sorry you feel that way. Umm, just to back up what I said, I'm looking at Match Stats for all the DO schools. Its difficult but there are dozens of students every year who match through ACGME. Look up your stuff.

 

[crose1023]

If you think as a DO you're getting an MD surgery residency, you're delusional. Especially as a pre-med thinking they will be a ****-not-stinking med student. Listen man, I'm a 4th year med student. I've been in the game, and I've seen how it works. If you want an MD surgery residency, you're ****ed if you go DO.

Ouch that's a bit harsh.
I never said I WANTED an MD residency. I'm not really thinking about it right now. Again, only a pre-med here and simply wanted to know a difference and why.

 

[diagonal]

Ouch that's a bit harsh.
I never said I WANTED an MD residency. I'm not really thinking about it right now. Again, only a pre-med here and simply wanted to know a difference and why.

Maybe my answer is a bit beyond what you're currently considering. If you want MD surgery, don't do DO. That's all I'm here to say. And it's a fact.

PS: can I tell you another bit of reality? you probably won't be competitive for even DO surgery residencies. everyone walks into DO med school thinking they will be **** hot. >80% realize they were very wrong.

 

[DrMaximus]

Ouch that's a bit harsh.
I never said I WANTED an MD residency. I'm not really thinking about it right now. Again, only a pre-med here and simply wanted to know a difference and why.

Meh, don't let him bum you out. We've all been in your shoes and wanted to know the same thing. But don't take it too lightly. It is extremely difficult to do. Possible, though.

 

[diagonal]

Sorry you feel that way. Umm, just to back up what I said, I'm looking at Match Stats for all the DO schools. Its difficult but there are dozens of students every year who match through ACGME. Look up your stuff.

 

[Mbeas]

Meh, don't let him bum you out. We've all been in your shoes and wanted to know the same thing. But don't take it too lightly. It is extremely difficult to do. Possible, though.

The DO that I shadowed did ACGME surgery and said he had no problem getting it. Yea, n does equal 1.

 

[rzoo14]

Maybe my answer is a bit beyond what you're currently considering. If you want MD surgery, don't do DO. That's all I'm here to say. And it's a fact.

https://sites.google.com/site/osteopathicreference/download-1

Download the Osteopathic Reference Spreadsheet and look up match stats. Every school page starting LECOM shows whether the program MD or DO. You'll see there are students who go MD surgery programs and quite a few of them too.

 

[rzoo14]

are you trolling?

also, dozens = just a phrase.

 

[DrMaximus]

Trollolololololol.

The DO that I shadowed did ACGME surgery and said he had no problem getting it. Yea, n does equal 1.

And 👍👍.

 

[diagonal]

are you trolling?

also, dozens = just a phrase.

Would you please explain to everyone reading this how you, a newly accepted med student, knows more about this subject than me, a 4th year medical student applying to residencies?

I'm so eager to hear your dumb ass uninformed argument.

 

[Mbeas]

I'm so eager to hear your dumb ass uninformed argument.

welcome back to SDN.

 

[rzoo14]

Would you please explain to everyone reading this how you, a newly accepted med student, knows more about this subject than me, a 4th year medical student applying to residencies?

I'm so eager to hear your dumb ass uninformed argument.

First of all, I'm a premed. Secondly, my "dumb ass uninformed argument" came with facts which you decided to neglect. So you or anyone else who's interested can go and look at that spreadsheet I posted.

I'm done with this argument.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Maybe my answer is a bit beyond what you're currently considering. If you want MD surgery, don't do DO. That's all I'm here to say. And it's a fact.

PS: can I tell you another bit of reality? you probably won't be competitive for even DO surgery residencies. everyone walks into DO med school thinking they will be **** hot. >80% realize they were very wrong.

Actually two very prominent DO's on here matched Gen surgery last year. One was from NSU and stated that the statistics on DO's not matching into gen surgery frequently with the ACGME is because they don't try. That being said, if you're talking about Uro,Ortho, ENT, Optho or every non Gen Surgery specialty then you're correct and you'll be doing AOA.

 

[diagonal]

First of all, I'm a premed. Secondly, my "dumb ass uninformed argument" came with facts which you decided to neglect. So you or anyone else who's interested can go and look at that spreadsheet I posted.

I'm done with this argument.

I looked at your spreadsheet. It was worthless. The difference between you and me is I've lived it, I have the dialogue with ~100 people. I talk to everyone actually doing this, actually having gone through med school, actually applying to residency .My experience isn't limited to some finger-crossed spreadsheet. I have a roommate who is academically unapproachable at arguably the best DO school in the country, yet he is being relegated to community radiology programs because he is a DO. And he's still worried it won't happen, for good reason.

Defend yourself all you want, but you're absolutely ****ing ignorant to the reality.

 

[diagonal]

Actually two very prominent DO's on here matched Gen surgery last year. One was from NSU and stated that the statistics on DO's not matching into gen surgery frequently with the ACGME is because they don't try. That being said, if you're talking about Uro,Ortho, ENT, Optho or every non Gen Surgery specialty then you're correct and you'll be doing AOA.

Yeah they don't try because by doing so you eliminates yourself from the DO match. Good luck being the guy that gambles your entire career on an exceedingly rare chance you match MD.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yeah they don't try because by doing so you eliminates yourself from the DO match. Good luck being the guy that gambles your entire career on an exceedingly rare chance you match MD.

Ah, yes, the DO match precedes the MD one. That little factoid seemed to have slipped my mind. Well regardless, an AOA surgery residency isn't much of a problem for either getting licensed or practice, you know as opposed to forbidden DO residencies such as Gas, of which doing one does harm employment prospects.

 

[diagonal]

Ah, yes, the DO match precedes the MD one. That little factoid seemed to have slipped my mind. Well regardless, an AOA surgery residency isn't much of a problem for either getting licensed or practice, you know as opposed to forbidden DO residencies such as Gas, of which doing one does harm employment prospects.

AOA surgery residency may very likely preclude your ability to get a fellowship as well. I think a lot of the reality is not only slipping your mind, but hasn't even entered your reality yet.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

AOA surgery residency may very likely preclude your ability to get a fellowship as well. I think a lot of the reality is not only slipping your mind, but hasn't even entered your reality yet.

Tad bit hostile there friend.

 

[diagonal]

Tad bit hostile there friend.

As I should be. You're giving advice that can affect a person's entire career based on absolute ignorance.

"The reason DO students don't match into MD surgery residencies is because they short-sell themselves and don't apply"

"Oh, I forgot the DO match precedes the MD match."

 

[nicolemsm]

Would you please explain to everyone reading this how you, a newly accepted med student, knows more about this subject than me, a 4th year medical student applying to residencies?

I'm so eager to hear your dumb ass uninformed argument.

I looked at your spreadsheet. It was worthless. The difference between you and me is I've lived it, I have the dialogue with ~100 people. I talk to everyone actually doing this, actually having gone through med school, actually applying to residency .My experience isn't limited to some finger-crossed spreadsheet. I have a roommate who is academically unapproachable at arguably the best DO school in the country, yet he is being relegated to community radiology programs because he is a DO. And he's still worried it won't happen, for good reason.

Defend yourself all you want, but you're absolutely ****ing ignorant to the reality.

As I should be. You're giving advice that can affect a person's entire career based on absolute ignorance.

"The reason DO students don't match into MD surgery residencies is because they short-sell themselves and don't apply"

"Oh, I forgot the DO match precedes the MD match."

You're a broken record, and swearing doesn't make your point anymore valid....

Just because you've "lived" doesn't mean you've lived the life of all DO students. Maybe you should try harder on passing your steps rather than trolling SDN bringing your negativity to boot.


U mad you didn't match bro?

 

[crose1023]

As I should be. You're giving advice that can affect a person's entire career based on absolute ignorance.

"The reason DO students don't match into MD surgery residencies is because they short-sell themselves and don't apply"

"Oh, I forgot the DO match precedes the MD match."

I think you're the ignorant one here bud.

Just because you've experienced one thing, doesn't mean everyone else has.

Someone's angry.

 

[Gerbie]

If you think as a DO you're getting an MD surgery residency, you're delusional. Especially as a pre-med thinking they will be a ****-not-stinking med student. Listen man, I'm a 4th year med student. I've been in the game, and I've seen how it works. If you want an MD surgery residency, you're ****ed if you go DO.

I shadowed a DO that went through a MD surgery residency. Probably haven't been in the game long enough? 😉

 

[diagonal]

^hey Gerbie, residencies are more competitive now than at any time in the history of medicine. So your crusty preceptors experience isn't relevant any longer. And for anyone just starting medical school, LOL, it'll be far worse.

But by all means, matriculate into a DO school with hopes of an MD surgery residency. It's not my life, after all.

 

[diagonal]

I think you're the ignorant one here bud.

Just because you've experienced one thing, doesn't mean everyone else has.

Someone's angry.

Not angry, I'm going into psychiatry. I don't give a **** about surgery and MD vs DO. I have no horse in this race other than to let people know the reality of the situation because I too was exposed to the one-sided rosey nonsense. And I learned it was an absolute lie. But do whatever you want.

 

[crose1023]

Not angry, I'm going into psychiatry. I don't give a **** about surgery and MD vs DO. I have no horse in this race other than to let people know the reality of the situation because I too was exposed to the one-sided rosey nonsense. And I learned it was an absolute lie. But do whatever you want.

Will do.
😎

 

[oms2]

fyi - there are do's in acgme surgical programs e.g.
http://surgery.uthscsa.edu/education/residencies/2008residents-fellows.asp

most do surgeons go this route via the aoa match:
http://www.desertregionalicon.com/our-physicians.html