Probation???

[FarmKat]

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Hello,

It is very so sad and depressing for me that I am on probation for rotations. I did not pass the summative exam in order to be on rotations. I have been waiting for the school's decision for more than a month now. But the school does not have any solid answer for me yet. I continue asking them, but everytime, they say they wish they have a definite answer for either continuing the program or kick out from school. In a meanwhile, I review all the materials, but the feeling of waiting is so tiring.

What should I do? Please help.

 

[Old Timer]

You need to make an appointment with Dean or with your adviser. The rules should have been posted in advance. DO you have to pass this exam the first time? Repeat classes? I can't believe you're the first person to fail this exam.

 

[FarmKat]

I made multiple appointments with my adviser and other people who are in charged, unfortunately, nobody had the answer (ie, repeated class, probation, or dismiss from the program). I wrote one email for the Dean but the Dean forward that email to the one in charge for acedemy. They just made up the rules right before the exam a few months. Yup, it is very sad that I am the first one to fail and nobody has the solution for me.

 

[LiveLoveFartRepeat]

I made multiple appointments with my adviser and other people who are in charged, unfortunately, nobody had the answer (ie, repeated class, probation, or dismiss from the program). I wrote one email for the Dean but the Dean forward that email to the one in charge for acedemy. They just made up the rules right before the exam a few months. Yup, it is very sad that I am the first one to fail and nobody has the solution for me.

Sorry to hear what situation you're in. I want to beleive that because you never been on probation before, the worst case scenario will be that then send you home for a year so that you repeat the entire year and the exam. They might also just make you repeat he exam. Then, they will write more clear rules because basically at this point you can ( and I strongly encourage to do so with a lawyer) challenge any decision of kicking you out of school. I have heard of student challenging decision of getting kicked out of school successfully. I am no lawyer but with no clear rules established prior to your situation...you have a shot.

Keep review your material and pray for the best...

my heart goes to you....good luck and keep us posted🙂

 

[no-see-um]

Does your school have a student handbook? Was this a published rule and was there fair warning?

From the sound of it, this may be questionable. If so, consult legal advising.

Sounds to me like a case of "Dr. Strangelove", or the more serious version- "Failsafe". I am not familiar with the details of your situation, but from the sound of it, it seems like they designed a system where no one is taking responsibility for its outputs if no one 'has an answer' for you.

This is probably a very lonely spot to be in- especially that you are the only student in this situation. You have certain rights- to fair and accurate representations of your abilities and to a due process system of foresight in the rules, warnings, etc. And You have every right to attend school, and indefinite probations without terms to them sound unnecessarily harsh and not a good teaching method.

It does not sound to me that they are eager to be involved in their own processes and help you out even in understanding the terms of this 'probation'. No one will take responsibility unless you call them to the carpet on this. You may need to write a letter to the 'committee'. You should obtain legal advising, but the first letter really should be from you without ccs to the esqs, but cc to your advisor, committee, and [your] 'file' (with cc to be determined).

If you need any help, you can PM me for editing. They will take the point of least resistance until you start putting things in writing. That, and studying to do better on that exam, in my opinion, are your responsibilities at the present ...

 

[sdn1977]

I made multiple appointments with my adviser and other people who are in charged, unfortunately, nobody had the answer (ie, repeated class, probation, or dismiss from the program). I wrote one email for the Dean but the Dean forward that email to the one in charge for acedemy. They just made up the rules right before the exam a few months. Yup, it is very sad that I am the first one to fail and nobody has the solution for me.

From the few posts you have, it appears you are in CA - am I right?

For most of the schools in CA, the rules & requirements are fairly straightforward. As a preceptor for a rotation location for a large university, the requirements are very explicit.

What happened when you went to the appointment with your advisor? What did the "other people" tell you?

You've not yet said what your responsibility was in not passing the rotations. So - what was it? Was your knowledge base not adequate? Did you not show up at the times and places you were supposed to be? Is your ability to verbalize an issue (unfortunately, I think from your post that English is not your primary language. If that is the case - you need to improve that!). Did you have an issue with one of the preceptors or one of the other folks on the rotation team (see JPH's post on pharmacy students).

If you knew the rules for a "few months" before the requirements were to be met....you should have known them & taken proper measures.

If none of these were the case...then, you MAY have a case for addressing the issue. But, until then, you are subject to the decision of the school you are attending.

One of the first jobs a pharmacist must do is take responsibility for his/her actions. Have you?????

Sorry for the negative sound of this post....but, I've just had a string of graduate interns looking for jobs who have had their nose in the air as if the profession owed them something (no - none of them have gotten the job.) There are enough folks around who are more than qualified........so get qualified & be the very, very best pharmacist you can be!!!

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I think you mis-read the post. He is saying that he fail the exam needed for him to go onto rotations, not fail a rotation. A lot of schools now have a sumative exam or a competancy exam to make sure that you are "competant" before going onto rotations. I am assuming he is saying that he fail the exam that the school just newly introduced, with the rules not being clear so he dont know what to do.

 

[sdn1977]

I think you mis-read the post. He is saying that he fail the exam needed for him to go onto rotations, not fail a rotation. A lot of schools now have a sumative exam or a competancy exam to make sure that you are "competant" before going onto rotations. I am assuming he is saying that he fail the exam that the school just newly introduced, with the rules not being clear so he dont know what to do.

Then the issue is the knowledge base. Again....my point is the same.

What is the responsibility of the OP?

"They just made up the rules right before the exam a few months" - what does that mean?

Why did other students seem to be able to understand and pass the examination to participate in rotations?

I don't believe one should compare oneself to others, but there is a standard which must be met. Most students meet the standard. Likewise, most students pass the licensing examinations. This is a precursor to what real life is like.

It comes down to personal responsibility of the student. If there were many in the same situation, then there might be a discussion. Otherwise, there is a knowledge base or communication skill base which is not being met.

Which is it?

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I agree that there must be a standard that must be met. However, most schools including mines, just introduce this competancy exam, and have no precedent on what to do with it. Most of us are not prepared to, as some schools (like mines), dont have a specific class geared toward in preparing us for this exam. For my school, we had to walk in with our resources (dipiro, med chem, drug info, non prescription, etc), and they give us a subject, that we were not clear on (cardiovascular, infectious, etc). We were given a set of questions based on a case scenario ranging from non pharmcotherapy to treatment options. After that, we have to present to a clinical staff member. All of this has to be done in an allotted time frame (one hour). While that might seem simple to a practicioner, a lot of the students crammed with this material and forgot it after finishing the course. Since we are so busy with finals, a competancy exam that we dont know about until a week to a month before the exam can hit hard.
For my school, we have 2 chances to take the competancy exam. If we fail, our rotations are delayed while we take courses to improve our skills. In the first competancy exam, (From what I heard), the failure rate was 50 percent for last year (When it was first introduced), and a little better for ours.

Although communication is a part of the test, it is also the time restraint, which I believe a lot of my classmates had trouble with. Dealing with several cases plus a lot of questions and counseling plus double checking information is hard. It wasnt like we were told what topic would be on the exam. We had to walk in blind. Keep in mind once again, it was in addition to finals and other course work due in the 2nd professional year.

 

[Requiem]

Although communication is a part of the test, it is also the time restraint, which I believe a lot of my classmates had trouble with. Dealing with several cases plus a lot of questions and counseling plus double checking information is hard. It wasnt like we were told what topic would be on the exam. We had to walk in blind. Keep in mind once again, it was in addition to finals and other course work due in the 2nd professional year.

I'm going in to my 3rd year, I know what you went through but it seems fair to me. This reinforces what you've learnt and makes sure you've retained and not just regurgitated a lot of the stuff you learn. For example we have "Mock OSCEs" which is a situation where you walk in [blind] where a patient has a therapeutic problem and you have to determine the problem, recommend appropriate therapy [drug and non drug], counsel within a 7 min time frame.

Seems similar.

 

[sdn1977]

I agree that there must be a standard that must be met. However, most schools including mines, just introduce this competancy exam, and have no precedent on what to do with it. Most of us are not prepared to, as some schools (like mines), dont have a specific class geared toward in preparing us for this exam. For my school, we had to walk in with our resources (dipiro, med chem, drug info, non prescription, etc), and they give us a subject, that we were not clear on (cardiovascular, infectious, etc). We were given a set of questions based on a case scenario ranging from non pharmcotherapy to treatment options. After that, we have to present to a clinical staff member. All of this has to be done in an allotted time frame (one hour). While that might seem simple to a practicioner, a lot of the students crammed with this material and forgot it after finishing the course. Since we are so busy with finals, a competancy exam that we dont know about until a week to a month before the exam can hit hard.
For my school, we have 2 chances to take the competancy exam. If we fail, our rotations are delayed while we take courses to improve our skills. In the first competancy exam, (From what I heard), the failure rate was 50 percent for last year (When it was first introduced), and a little better for ours.

Although communication is a part of the test, it is also the time restraint, which I believe a lot of my classmates had trouble with. Dealing with several cases plus a lot of questions and counseling plus double checking information is hard. It wasnt like we were told what topic would be on the exam. We had to walk in blind. Keep in mind once again, it was in addition to finals and other course work due in the 2nd professional year.

It appears to be an evaluation of the school's curriculum as much as you as the student, in your school. I'm not sure that is the case with the OP. CA schools use verbal examinations frequently.

If there is indeed a 50% failure rate - it reflects poorly on the school. It also demonstrates the futility of cramming for exams. This is not like undergraduate work. You really, really have to learn this material because people are relying on you to know it. Thats not just your patients, but the nurses, prescribers & family. In real life & on real rotations, you are not given the extravagance of time nor are you given pre-knowledge of whatever question you're to be asked. Read JPH's thread on his pharmacy students on his service. If you're not competent...as his student was not, you should not be on the rotation & indeed must go back & do remedial work. A month is more than enough time to prepare for a cumulative exam, particularly if you've only completed 2 years of school.

I'm sure the school is looking at its method of teaching as well since they are demonstrating they are doing something wrong if they have students who cannot pass their competency exam. If they send poorly prepared students to rotations, that reflects badly on the school as well as the student and can be dangerous on many levels. It can also impact their ability to keep their accreditation.

I agree with Requiem - it seems fair & reasonable.

 

[FarmKat]

Thank you all for your inputs. I know what to do now.

 

[TCB]

wow I had to take that competency exam for my first time yesterday, and the second part of that exam is on tuesday; I am starting my third year. However in our school, that exam count as 10 % of our pharmcare grade... I am glad it is not a decisive factor for rotations!!!!

FarmKat I am glad you found the solution to your problem.

 

[dgroulx]

I see nothing wrong with testing for competancy before going out on rotations. You need to know what you are doing before you start working with real patients.

The huge case studies with no time to prepare were hard and stressful while I was at school, but I learned a lot. When I went out on rotations, I found that most actual patient cases were much easier than the cases at school and I was very well prepared to handle what came up on a day to day basis.

When you take the NAPLEX, it is also going to be patient case studies, so get used to it.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

yeah, but that isnt the question of the op post. Nobody said that a competancy exam is bad. . . I was just trying to give another perspective of Ops post.

 

[no-see-um]

Thank you all for your inputs. I know what to do now.

Goodluck. There will always be reasons why you shouldn't be doing something, but you need to look at it from a perspective that could allow for your success.

Perhaps the school is right to keep you from rotations because of the competency exam, but there also needs to be rules and policies to follow even in that, and thereafter. From your perspective, all you can do is learn the policies and learn the material, and to know where to go if you feel you are being treated unfairly, singled out, or left aside. Fair and reasonable judgements (even if stipulated) need to be followed through with fair and reasonable actions and consequences in an educational institution. I happen to believe that it is a dual responsiblity between the student, and yes, even the school to help a student get back on track.